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CaptainCommando
2009-02-10, 12:40 AM
Caravan of Blades Preview

For those of you who are unfamiliar with Caravan of Blades, it is a pay-for-play DnD 4e campaign that I am currently planning as a temporary, supplementary source of income (NOT my main source of income). Whether or not it will succeed is unknown though the plan does seem doable based on the circumstances.
I will primarily (but not solely) be marketing to college students in Manhattan in New York City.
The location is to be determined. I will aim for a place within walking distance of a university (if not on campus). There is also apparently a very healthy gaming population in the city.
My advertisement will consist of flyers, online ads, and word-of-mouth. I will also run a number of free teaching games (why just look for gamers when you can also create them?).
The first couple of weeks will probably be sparse. However since this isn't a particularly big operation and I only need to get a negligibly small percentage of the local population to participate, it shouldn't be hard to pack the seats as the campaign progresses (assuming I deliver well on my end).
I intend to make my gaming sessions superior to average gamers' sessions like the difference between A-movies and B-movies.

Here is a preview of the details while I'm working things out. This is the result (not final) of an earlier thread at RPG.net which I used for community brainstorming. My next update (on a new thread) will be the big one with all the set-in-stone details.
When everything is ready, I'll be posting announcements on multiple gamer forums. Feel free to comment and speculate until then.

Each session will be a self-contained story episode, so anyone can drop in any time during the course of the campaign without the story being disrupted.

The campaign will have an original setting. The story focuses on the adventures of a mercenary adventuring company that travels from city to city taking up all sorts of odd and dangerous jobs. Not all episodes will take place in civilized areas though, as there are all sorts of dangers and intrigues along the trail...

(Note: Pricing and Scheduling are still Not Final yet)
There will be sessions on at least 3 days of the week, with at least 2 sessions taking place on each of the days (at least 6 sessions per week).
Each session will be 2 1/2 to 3 hours long.
Every week will feature the same episode for each of the sessions.
The maximum number of players will be 7 (3 on each side and 1 on the other end if a rectangular table is used).
There will be a total of 20 episodes from March to August. Characters will level up from 1 to 20 as the campaign progresses.
Entry fee to each session will be $7 per player (not per hour - the whole session).
I will run free teaching games to help draw in new players. Scheduling and frequency for this is to be determined.
I might do reservations.

There will be a special messageboard on a special forum that will be used as support for this campaign. Campaign details and other goodies will be posted on the board, including:
-A recap of the events that have taken place in previous sessions/episodes.
-A parallel series of fictional stories, linking the events of each session/episode.
-30 different pregenerated characters (15 male, 15 female), complete with statistics and backgrounds, that the players will be able to choose from at each session. The characters will be updated weekly.
-Details of the original setting being used for the campaign.
-A calendar of sessions.

Gaming materials provided/used by the game master will include:
-stationary and pencils
-miniatures
-map and dungeon tiles
-printed handouts (12-15 page booklets with pictures and text)
-dice
-copies of the rules
-game master props (pictures, flat puppets, etc.)

The gameplay of each session will be a blend of rail-roading and free form storytelling. The players will have a limited menu of actions they can take and places they can visit throughout the session. Each menu choice made by the players causes a certain amount of game time (not real time) to pass.
Depending on the order and nature of the party's activities (or inactivity), each session will have multiple possible events and endings. It will be somewhat like the television series "24" crossed with a "Choose Your Own Adventure" book, with tension and anticipation after each decision made knowing that whatever happens in the end is in the players' hands.
This format is designed for enhanced control of session duration while giving players enough control of the story to become immersed in the gameplay.

Character Death
This is a big issue since the players are paying to play. Each member of the party is given a special tattoo that magically links that person to another company member just before embarking on a mission/job.
At the beginning of the session, each player chooses 2 characters: a primary and a back-up. If the primary character's hit points are reduced to 0 or less, the character is teleported away to the caravan and the back-up teleports in (on the next turn of the primary character). The primary then becomes the back-up (healed back at headquarters) and vice versa.
This is the most highly guarded secret of the group and the source of its success as an adventuring company.
Players will never have to twiddle their thumbs because of an unfortunate critical hit from an unexpected attack. A "death" may however have interesting in-game consequences that affect which ending the session finishes with. :smalleek:

What Does This Campaign Offer That Is Worth the Cost?
-Players don't have to come in on the same day or time. The campaign schedule allows their participation to be flexible, fitting to their schedule, not the game master's.
-Since this is for money, the game master (me) is far more likely to be reliably available rather than having to cancel because of work or study.
-Players don't have to attend every single session or even more than one. The online updates make it easier to jump in anytime.
-Players don't have to buy books or bring ANYTHING. Just cash for entry fee.
-It's quality interactive entertainment for less than the price of a movie ticket.
-Game masters may be many but well-performed game masters with miniatures and maps and time to flesh out a campaign and flexible gaming schedules are few.
-PAPERWORK. None of the players will have to do any between sessions. XP, character advancement, and treasure will be automatically regulated so much more focus is on enjoying the story and gameplay.
-Players will have a large variety of interesting characters that they can try out and since each session will have multiple endings, a player can participate in the same episode more than once and have a different experience each time.
-Quality writing. When the online support is ready, you can see for yourself.
-Exceptional theatrical performance by the game master (this is something that actually has to be seen and heard in person though). :smallbiggrin:

The_Blue_Sorceress
2009-02-10, 11:01 AM
An interesting idea. It will appeal mostly to those with extra cash and no regular group.

I think it's a bad idea for you to handle the character creation, advancement and XP, however. Someone new to the game might like it, but I sure wouldn't, and I don't think any of the gamers I know would either. You're also going to be creating your own competition when your players decide they've had enough of paying for DnD and get together on their own time to run their own campaigns. Maybe you're a better DM, but I've had piles of fun with mediocre and bad DMs, and I've never had to pay for a minute of it.

Blue

Heliomance
2009-02-10, 11:18 AM
Aye, character creation is half the fun of playing for me, I like the customisability. As you say, there is a healthy gaming population in the city - this means plenty of GMs and plenty of games running - all of which will be free to play.

I'm also somewhat chary of the way you intend to run it - limiting choices is rarely good, especially if done artificially. The way you describe choices causing a certain amount of time to progress sounds more like a computer turn based strategy than D&D. You may have multiple endings planned, but there's only one thing you can rely on PCs to do, and that's whatever you weren't expecting. If a player throws you a curveball and you block it because it doesn't fit any of your story lines, that's Not Good.

Also, the way you're doing characters pretty much guarentees that no-one will get attached to their character. It will play more like a series of one-shots that an actual campaign, which will probably lower the amount of actual roleplaying going on. To roleplay a character well, you need time to get to know him, to learn how he thinks, how he speaks, how he acts. If the players pick a different character every week, you won't get that.

Regarding death, it's an okay way to handle it. It does cheapen death even more than it already is, though, and you might well get players going "actually, I don't like this character much. I'll kill him off so I can switch to the other one."

In conclusion I think it's an interesting idea, but I really don't think gamers are going to be prepared to shell out cash to play a game when they could be playing for free. Uni students almost certainly won't.

CaptainCommando
2009-02-10, 03:31 PM
-Because my campaign will be episodic, I don't expect or need every player to stay with it the whole way. The amount of time and trouble it actually takes to find a group that fits around one's schedule if one is in college or working can make it difficult even in a healthy gaming community. There's also no guarantee that after finding a group, that the group is allowing new players in. I expect at least half of the customers over the course of the campaign to be infrequent or 1-session stand players. It should still be enough to meet my satisfaction since again, my objective quota is not like that of a movie theatre since I only serve 7 or less players per session.

-Also, for RPgamers in-between regular free groups, this pay-for-play campaign will be a convenient oasis in the desert. With luck such gamers will be too enthralled by the quality I put into the sessions to leave.

-The convenience of the campaign is tailored for those with busy/hectic schedules. Most groups won't change their meeting day and time every time just for one's convenience. This campaign meets at least 6 different times of the week, making it much easier to get a session/weekly gaming fix in.

-A good point about the character creation though. I'm going to create a set of character generation guidelines for bringing your own character in. The same guidelines will be used for the pregens. Ability scores and equipment will probably be the bulk of the guidelines. Also never underestimate how much a player will get attached to a pregenerated character especially if the character is made well. Also never overestimate how much work a player is willing or able to put into fleshing out a character.

-I never said I was not going to be prepared to improvise in the event that the players do something unexpected. I wouldn't even consider doing this campaign if I wasn't good or experienced at pulling compelling story material out of my ass whenever my plans don't go the way they are expected to. The menu of choices at each turn will be different and well-varied, allowing for hundreds of different possibilities at the end. My "endings" will be guidelines for how I end the session, not rigid text.

kjones
2009-02-10, 08:06 PM
I'm a university student (though not in NYC) and I can't imagine paying for a game. This may be just because there's a fairly large RPG community here, but university students, in general, tend to be pretty cheap, especially when it comes to entertainment. I know a guy who runs a music store - opened up a franchise right across the street from a big college in MA. It went belly-up within months; students don't buy those sorts of things.

Additionally, DMing 6 nights a week may take a lot out of you. I've run two weekly campaigns simultaneously, and that burned me out pretty badly. It's not so much an issue of time as creative mojo - you only have so much, and DMing drains it pretty fast.

TheLogman
2009-02-10, 08:41 PM
D&D is a very community based game for me, it's the players and the DM being friends, so the idea of someone paying for D&D sounds pretty bad to me, but that's just me.

You might have some trouble with people who don't feel that they got they money's worth.

For me, D&D isn't a video game, it is playing with other people. What you've set up seems to me to be more like a video game. I guess some people might go for it, but I really wouldn't. You might be able to reach people who have never played D&D, or people who want entertainment like video games but not.

Sorry if I come off as negative, I just really cannot imagine paying for playing D&D, let alone paying for playing D&D with people I don't know.

That and something about the railroading. I guess I just really like free-form games, don't like being limited.

Starbuck_II
2009-02-10, 09:20 PM
(Note: Pricing and Scheduling are still Not Final yet)
There will be sessions on at least 3 days of the week, with at least 2 sessions taking place on each of the days (at least 6 sessions per week).
Each session will be 2 1/2 to 3 hours long.
Every week will feature the same episode for each of the sessions.
The maximum number of players will be 7 (3 on each side and 1 on the other end if a rectangular table is used).
There will be a total of 20 episodes from March to August. Characters will level up from 1 to 20 as the campaign progresses.
Entry fee to each session will be $7 per player (not per hour - the whole session).
I will run free teaching games to help draw in new players. Scheduling and frequency for this is to be determined.
I might do reservations.


I'm trying to understand this:
So hypothetically:
Moday, Tuesday, And Friday all are the same adventure planned at lets us 1 PM.
You have again on 5 PM on those days.

Every player really only plays 7 dollars a week since there would be no reason to go to the adventure he already played.

Something like that?

CaptainCommando
2009-02-10, 10:56 PM
I'm trying to understand this:
So hypothetically:
Moday, Tuesday, And Friday all are the same adventure planned at lets us 1 PM.
You have again on 5 PM on those days.

Every player really only plays 7 dollars a week since there would be no reason to go to the adventure he already played.

Something like that?

Pretty much. Unlike most campaigns if you miss a session, you can still catch the "same" session on another day of the week. All the sessions feature self-contained stories connected by an over-arching sub-story as a hybrid between 1-shot and continued long quest. One can miss half the entire campaign and still be okay to join in the next week. The online recaps and parallel stories (which will be freely available) will make it easier.

After mulling it over, I'm not too sure about players bringing in their own characters. It would be a lot of trouble to make sure their characters are done right each time they bring them. I have to be more careful since one player trying to argue and abuse the rules could end up making every player at the table demanding a refund. For some players, making their own characters may be half the fun, but I don't have to please everybody, just enough to fill the seats.
I think I might just make two separate gender backgrounds for each character build, since gender doesn't have a mechanical effect in the rules. I won't be using warlock but I will be using swordmage and bard and perhaps one other surprise class...

All of the characters statistics and backgrounds will be posted on the support messageboard so players can create their own background stories if they wish and use them when they play. Stats, powers, and equipment for the pregens will however be automatic (I'll be leaving out alignment as well). I will however be disallowing evil and chaotic evil types. Players will not likely be paying just to have the whole session degrade into a senseless brawl, in-game or out-of-game.

In case anyone is wondering, no I will not actually be putting up the text of the powers from the books. That is copyrighted. I'll be putting up a list of the powers for each pregen accompanied by alternate original flavor text to describe what they do. I'm going to be careful not to cross the line that a certain website did, resulting in a cease and desist order from WotC. Everything I put up will be legal under IP law pertaining to WotC intellectual property.

Knaight
2009-02-11, 01:06 AM
1) I intend to make my gaming sessions superior to average gamers' sessions like the difference between A-movies and B-movies.

2) The campaign will have an original setting. The story focuses on the adventures of a mercenary adventuring company that travels from city to city taking up all sorts of odd and dangerous jobs. Not all episodes will take place in civilized areas though, as there are all sorts of dangers and intrigues along the trail...

3) The gameplay of each session will be a blend of rail-roading and free form storytelling. The players will have a limited menu of actions they can take and places they can visit throughout the session. Each menu choice made by the players causes a certain amount of game time (not real time) to pass.
Depending on the order and nature of the party's activities (or inactivity), each session will have multiple possible events and endings. It will be somewhat like the television series "24" crossed with a "Choose Your Own Adventure" book, with tension and anticipation after each decision made knowing that whatever happens in the end is in the players' hands.


1) Normal games have the advantage of a game master who knows their players, players who know each other, people who have settled into a game type they like, with the best storyteller in the group as GM. Being able to trump this easily without knowing players well, without the players knowing each other well, where people haven't settled into a game is going to require incredible, incredible skills.

2) An original settings is not a huge selling point, if my experiences are any indication most people use an original setting, or multiple original settings. I know I do. Furthermore your setting sounds pretty generic and uninteresting.

3) And at this point I might as well just play a video game. If there is a menu of choices then it is railroading, plain and simple, and this is throwing point 1 into contention more than it already is.

What this all comes together to look like is that basically you wipe out preparation time, and give players without a GM a way to pay for a game, which is extremely substandard in options and other such. While its better than nothing for people who can't get a game going at all, it sounds pretty low quality, honestly I wouldn't play this even if it were free, due to point 3. 7 dollars for a session is just absurd. Your competing with video games by running this the way you are. Either change it around a little (wipe point 3, and run multiple games a week, in different settings, with modified systems, so that one game can feed the other creatively) so its more appealing, or find an alternate income source, such as working overtime at your main job, or if you are actually capable of carrying out point 1, write a novel, or a module series. You could probably do better than WotC with a module series, which makes it a pretty viable option if your looking for something similar.

Kurald Galain
2009-02-11, 05:18 AM
To reiterate the obvious, I fail to see why anyone would want to pay for this, especially on a campus (lots of RP'ing students) in a big city (with lots more RP'ers). You're catering to an audience that already has what you're selling.

Aside from that, I see a number of big problems with your setup.

(1) your continuity is non-existent. Having each episode self-contained, and possibly in a different random city with random odds and dangerous jobs, disrupts whatever overarching story you might have in mind. Meeting new people every time and playing one or two new characters every time also breaks continuity, as does replaying the same episode and getting a different ending.

(2) your gameplay is haphazard. Seven players per table is way too much for any game. One level per session is probably too fast, and is certainly too fast for novice players. The silly death rule breaks both immersion and the concept that death means anything. And flat puppet props? Really??

(3) you're making a big deal out of things that aren't selling points. Pregenerated characters aren't a selling point but a drawback, as players like making characters. Finding a reliable GM is not nearly as big a deal as you claim it is, and nobody minds having to record their XP. Not bringing books is really not a big deal in any circle I've played in. Expect people to either not care about the parallel series of fictional stories, or complain about the interesting stuff happening in-story rather than in-game.

(4) the dealbreaker is that "players will have a limited menu of actions they can take and places they can visit throughout the session". This one means I wouldn't be playing for you if you paid me.

Overall, your tone implies that you consider yourself the best DM since sliced bread, but your suggestions imply that you really, really aren't. It seems that what you're trying to is reinvent the RPGA Living Campaigns all by yourself, offering less options, lower quality, and a higher price. And overall this is making you some $150 per week, at a huge time investment. I am, shall we say, less than impressed by the entire idea.

CaptainCommando
2009-02-11, 05:58 PM
1) Normal games have the advantage of a game master who knows their players, players who know each other, people who have settled into a game type they like, with the best storyteller in the group as GM. Being able to trump this easily without knowing players well, without the players knowing each other well, where people haven't settled into a game is going to require incredible, incredible skills.

2) An original settings is not a huge selling point, if my experiences are any indication most people use an original setting, or multiple original settings. I know I do. Furthermore your setting sounds pretty generic and uninteresting.

3) And at this point I might as well just play a video game. If there is a menu of choices then it is railroading, plain and simple, and this is throwing point 1 into contention more than it already is.

What this all comes together to look like is that basically you wipe out preparation time, and give players without a GM a way to pay for a game, which is extremely substandard in options and other such. While its better than nothing for people who can't get a game going at all, it sounds pretty low quality, honestly I wouldn't play this even if it were free, due to point 3. 7 dollars for a session is just absurd. Your competing with video games by running this the way you are. Either change it around a little (wipe point 3, and run multiple games a week, in different settings, with modified systems, so that one game can feed the other creatively) so its more appealing, or find an alternate income source, such as working overtime at your main job, or if you are actually capable of carrying out point 1, write a novel, or a module series. You could probably do better than WotC with a module series, which makes it a pretty viable option if your looking for something similar.

1) It wouldn't be the first time that I've had to deal with strangers in a game. I am not unskilled at getting a group excited and cooperative in working/playing together. My experiences as a DM of a large group, a player in a large group, a Sunday school teacher, and as a student at a highly competitive prestige school taught me a lot about human interaction (or rather what mistakes to avoid :smallbiggrin:).

2) I have not actually revealed the selling point(s) of my original setting nor have I actually revealed the nature of the setting itself so it is premature to make any such judgements.

3) I should probably clarify: There will be a dozen or more different "areas" that the party can visit. Each of the "areas" will have 2 or more sub-sections that can be visited. Travel between "areas" will consume time. Events will occur at different times whether the party squats in a single location or not. What and how events occur will depend on the actions of the party. These events may even occur in different areas but will have an effect in shaping the ending of the story and the actions of the PCs whereever they are.
There will be several "probable" endings but the actual ending may be completely different depending on what the party does or doesn't do in the episode. The "probable" endings are simply guidelines. The party still determines what actually happens but no matter what, there will be an ending that wraps up the episode. This way the session will not become dissatisfying because nothing happened. People will pay for a good show and I am going to give it to them.

I am actually planning to adapt my writing for this campaign into a published novel or adventure path, so whatever income I get from entry fees does not have to be substantial for the campaign to be profitable. The reactions I get from each session will be valuable research into what readers will like best about my story. Also, the price still isn't final (I wrote that in the original post).

CaptainCommando
2009-02-11, 07:08 PM
To reiterate the obvious, I fail to see why anyone would want to pay for this, especially on a campus (lots of RP'ing students) in a big city (with lots more RP'ers). You're catering to an audience that already has what you're selling.

Aside from that, I see a number of big problems with your setup.

(1) your continuity is non-existent. Having each episode self-contained, and possibly in a different random city with random odds and dangerous jobs, disrupts whatever overarching story you might have in mind. Meeting new people every time and playing one or two new characters every time also breaks continuity, as does replaying the same episode and getting a different ending.

(2) your gameplay is haphazard. Seven players per table is way too much for any game. One level per session is probably too fast, and is certainly too fast for novice players. The silly death rule breaks both immersion and the concept that death means anything. And flat puppet props? Really??

(3) you're making a big deal out of things that aren't selling points. Pregenerated characters aren't a selling point but a drawback, as players like making characters. Finding a reliable GM is not nearly as big a deal as you claim it is, and nobody minds having to record their XP. Not bringing books is really not a big deal in any circle I've played in. Expect people to either not care about the parallel series of fictional stories, or complain about the interesting stuff happening in-story rather than in-game.

(4) the dealbreaker is that "players will have a limited menu of actions they can take and places they can visit throughout the session". This one means I wouldn't be playing for you if you paid me.

Overall, your tone implies that you consider yourself the best DM since sliced bread, but your suggestions imply that you really, really aren't. It seems that what you're trying to is reinvent the RPGA Living Campaigns all by yourself, offering less options, lower quality, and a higher price. And overall this is making you some $150 per week, at a huge time investment. I am, shall we say, less than impressed by the entire idea.

First of all, I've only written the preview of my marketing plan, not the whole plan down to every last detail. The ratio of players to players who have time or resources to run games (decent games at least) is scarcer than you imply. The percentage of game masters with the sort of resources or time that I will devote cuts the number down much, much further. The percentage of game masters with schedules as flexible to the players' needs cuts the number down even more.

1) I will be posting the results of the sessions on the website and adapting the effect on the overall storyline based on that. Players can see what other people did in their sessions and anticipate and speculate what's going to happen next. That's one of the special draws of this campaign. The campaign is being supported on a forum website too, enhancing the communal properties of this business. Also, the story is designed to make sense with new/different members in the party every time (large adventuring company remember?).

2) I've run games with 8 (majority of the group being disruptive, rowdy teenagers too). 7 is manageable for me. The game is not exactly rocket science to play. Leveling up each session is not too difficult for noivice players if they don't have to do the paperwork. The characters will be posted online so players will be able to review what their favorite characters can do before sessions. The combat will be much more than about who goes down and how fast (it's a surprise) so the "silly" death rule will not ruin the fun of encounters. You shouldn't knock props until you've tried them. :smallbiggrin:

3) I expect many of the players not to have books in the first place. My pregen designs will be flexible and varied. Players can still make their own back stories for the characters they use. All the math already done for them is convenient, especially if they have busy class/work schedules. It's not like I'm offering only a few choices of character. I'm offering DOZENS. I'm not saying that it's hard to find a reliable GM, just that my reliability is far more convenient to everybody's schedule. You shouldn't knock a person's campaign writing until you've actually read it. I've only given a small peek of the format, not the arching story itself. There will be a strong synergy between the session stories and the sub-story in-game as well as out-of-game. Everyone not participating will have to wait until I start posting the session recaps to understand what I'm preparing.

4) Read my previous post. I think it should clarify what I mean by "limited". It's not as bad as you make it sound. There will be a great deal of exploration while guaranteeing that the story moves forward, which may be in an unpredictable way. I am prepared to adapt the session as the players make progress. It's a necessary balance to make sure that customers get their money's worth. It may not be your cup of tea but you're not necessarily one of the customers in my targeted base.

The money thing is explained in my previous post. I'm not doing this to get rich. I'm not attempting to reinvent a globalized living campaign. This is a very different operation with different draws than a globalized living campaign. I'm exploring a path that is rarely taken. I don't expect to impress anyone, I simply hope to. What I expect is to produce interesting data. Most of the nay-sayers I've encountered are still curious to see what happens even if many of them predict failure. Even failure can produce useful information.

Nohwl
2009-02-11, 07:55 PM
what if a person wants to make their own character? are they just out of luck and have to use one that you made?

do people have to follow options you give them? can the party split up or will you make all of them go to the same place?

CaptainCommando
2009-02-11, 08:44 PM
what if a person wants to make their own character? are they just out of luck and have to use one that you made?

do people have to follow options you give them? can the party split up or will you make all of them go to the same place?

Currently I am still thinking about that (I've got a couple of weeks before all decisions are set). I suppose it could be doable as long as the player in question follows the same creation/progression guidelines as the pregens. I would have to specify which sources/books may be used and demand the character be e-mailed or xeroxed and handed over in advance so I can look it over before the session.

The party can take whatever actions they want within the given menu of locations. The number of locations will be limited yet large enough to encourage exploration. Like real life, time is something that the players will have to consider. They will have a mission that they can pursue or veer away from. Things will happen as time passes. The episodes will be organic in nature and whatever the PCs do or don't do will matter. I don't however expect the party to just sit still and drink at the local tavern all session long and watch from afar as events unfold. :smalltongue:

lisiecki
2009-02-12, 01:34 AM
2) I have not actually revealed the selling point(s) of my original setting nor have I actually revealed the nature of the setting itself so it is premature to make any such judgements.


Well...
What are the selling points of your game?
Its impossible to give any feed back on your idea, or to express our own opinions on the game, If we dont know what this twist is.
Or did you start the thread just to tell us you were going to do this?

i was under the impression these WERE the selling points of your game
as you said there the reasion people would spend money on it



What Does This Campaign Offer That Is Worth the Cost?
-Players don't have to come in on the same day or time. The campaign schedule allows their participation to be flexible, fitting to their schedule, not the game master's.
-Since this is for money, the game master (me) is far more likely to be reliably available rather than having to cancel because of work or study.
-Players don't have to attend every single session or even more than one. The online updates make it easier to jump in anytime.
-Players don't have to buy books or bring ANYTHING. Just cash for entry fee.
-It's quality interactive entertainment for less than the price of a movie ticket.
-Game masters may be many but well-performed game masters with miniatures and maps and time to flesh out a campaign and flexible gaming schedules are few.
-PAPERWORK. None of the players will have to do any between sessions. XP, character advancement, and treasure will be automatically regulated so much more focus is on enjoying the story and gameplay.
-Players will have a large variety of interesting characters that they can try out and since each session will have multiple endings, a player can participate in the same episode more than once and have a different experience each time.
-Quality writing. When the online support is ready, you can see for yourself.
-Exceptional theatrical performance by the game master (this is something that actually has to be seen and heard in person though).


The gameplay of each session will be a blend of rail-roading and free form storytelling. The players will have a limited menu of actions they can take and places they can visit throughout the session. Each menu choice made by the players causes a certain amount of game time (not real time) to pass.

can you really have free form AND rail roadin?
Hows that work exactly


Frankly unless your selling point is something AMAZING (free geishawith each session) I wouldn't go.
I cant see why i would want to play the same character week after week, when none of the things i do affect the world at all.
If i come to a Monday session one week, and a Friday session the next, im going to be with people that haven't been in my party before and the things i did last week, didn't do anything to the world, if my party picked path A and fridays group took path B


It's not like I'm offering only a few choices of character. I'm offering DOZENS.

What games, other than high level 3.5 DandD and GURPS really offer DOZENS of character choices?

Unless your just changing an attribute here and there, how are you getting DOZENS (24, 36, 48?) of characters that the average, player off the street would understand. "yes your playing a gestalt build of a Sourcer/wizard, your magic comes BOTH from study as well as the blood of the gold dragons in you family line, how do you have a great great great great grandfather whos a dragon? its best we just dont think about that.
Or are you going to change one or two ability scores on each sheet
or are you just going to go nuts with templates

CaptainCommando
2009-02-12, 06:50 AM
i was under the impression these WERE the selling points of your game
as you said there the reasion people would spend money on it

can you really have free form AND rail roadin?
Hows that work exactly

I cant see why i would want to play the same character week after week, when none of the things i do affect the world at all.

What games, other than high level 3.5 DandD and GURPS really offer DOZENS of character choices?


In my original post I was referring to the selling points of this type of campaign. The setting itself will be revealed in my big announcement. I don't really need feedback on the setting.

There will be a list of 20 to 30 different choices of places to explore in the session. Each time the party moves from location to location, a certain amount of time passes in the game world. Depending on the players' actions, the story of the session will evolve. There may be certain events that will be activated or reset if the party does this or that at certain times during the episode. I will be adapting partly on-the-fly as this happens. No matter what there will be a significant finishing event at the end of the session even if the party is in the middle of a battle. The final event will be the result of the party's actions earlier in the episode and will be improvised to tie together the consequences of all the decisions made throughout the session.
It's actually going to be quite structured while giving a lot of space for the PCs to roam. Although there will be a number of predicted "probable outcomes" since the party will be given a mission in the beginning of the episode, the actual ending is up in the air. The end of the episode might often require a feat of storytelling and memory recall not for the inexperienced or faint of heart.

The results of each session will be recorded and they will all be posted at the end of the last session day. I'm considering making a poll on the support website for posters to vote for their favorite of the session results. The winning result or top 2 or 3 of the results will determine the nature of the next episode. The players get to see what happens with the other groups and speculate about what's next.

Have you ever even played 4th edition DnD? There are a lot of different ways that one can build a character. Also, character builds are simpler to understand in 4e than in 3e and these characters will be posted online to view ahead of session. And before anyone can ask, yes I've got the legalities of posting a 4e character online covered, unlike a certain website that got hit by WotC C&D...

Kurald Galain
2009-02-12, 07:01 AM
First of all, I've only written the preview of my marketing plan, not the whole plan down to every last detail.
Well, I don't see much of a point in arguing about this. You believe you have a great and novel idea here; most other people on the forum seem to think that your idea isn't all that great and that several of your premises are faulty.

So prove us wrong.

lisiecki
2009-02-12, 07:45 AM
In my original post I was referring to the selling points of this type of campaign. The setting itself will be revealed in my big announcement. I don't really need feedback on the setting.


So your setting is the selling point, rather than the reasons you gave that people would give money for?



There will be a list of 20 to 30 different choices of places to explore in the session. Each time the party moves from location to location, a certain amount of time passes in the game world. Depending on the players' actions, the story of the session will evolve. There may be certain events that will be activated or reset if the party does this or that at certain times during the episode. I will be adapting partly on-the-fly as this happens. No matter what there will be a significant finishing event at the end of the session even if the party is in the middle of a battle. The final event will be the result of the party's actions earlier in the episode and will be improvised to tie together the consequences of all the decisions made throughout the session.
It's actually going to be quite structured while giving a lot of space for the PCs to roam. Although there will be a number of predicted "probable outcomes" since the party will be given a mission in the beginning of the episode, the actual ending is up in the air. The end of the episode might often require a feat of storytelling and memory recall not for the inexperienced or faint of heart.


Thats cool...
Still cant figure out why people would watn to play in a game, where there actions might have no effect on the world at large
"You guys remember that princess you saved? well shes dead"





Have you ever even played 4th edition DnD? There are a lot of different ways that one can build a character. Also, character builds are simpler to understand in 4e than in 3e and these characters will be posted online to view ahead of session. And before anyone can ask, yes I've got the legalities of posting a 4e character online covered, unlike a certain website that got hit by WotC C&D...

Yes, I have
Did you ever even say what system you were using?
Unless i missed a massive update there are still what, only Rogue, Fighter, Wizard, Warlock, Warlord, Cleric, Palli and Swordmage?

So your dozens and dozens of characters, One member of each race in the PHB in each class?

that gets you what, 42 characters?
I guess, technically, that is dozens.

I still have some questions like "Where will you find roleplayers who need groups, where they cant find other groups"

But

Well im even more confused as to why you would make a post about this on a forum, if you don't want to talk about your idea...

Temp.
2009-02-12, 08:07 AM
I still have some questions like "Where will you find roleplayers who need groups, where they cant find other groups"...Especially when, by playing, you'd introduce them to groups of players who wanted groups.


I really don't see how this could work out for you. Good luck though, I guess.

RebelRogue
2009-02-12, 09:04 AM
Did you ever even say what system you were using?
Unless i missed a massive update there are still what, only Rogue, Fighter, Wizard, Warlock, Warlord, Cleric, Palli and Swordmage?

So your dozens and dozens of characters, One member of each race in the PHB in each class?

that gets you what, 42 characters?
I guess, technically, that is dozens.
There's 8 classes (you forgot ranger) in the PHB and 8 races. That's 64 combinations. And there's two build suggestions for each class, giving 128 premade chars (With PHB2 this shoud grow to 16*16*2=512. Good luck with that :smallwink: ) Let the player add the fluff. That's a lot of chars! Still, keeping the option for experiences players to create their own character is probably recommended.

lisiecki
2009-02-12, 09:40 AM
There's 8 classes (you forgot ranger) in the PHB and 8 races. That's 64 combinations. And there's two build suggestions for each class, giving 128 premade chars (With PHB2 this shoud grow to 16*16*2=512. Good luck with that :smallwink: ) Let the player add the fluff. That's a lot of chars! Still, keeping the option for experiences players to create their own character is probably recommended.

Darnnation your right

Still, I'm very curious as to if these "dozens of characters" are any different from going through the 4th ed character builder quick start, and clicking on various options

Another_Poet
2009-02-12, 11:58 AM
CaptainCommando, I'm really happy to see a DM doing this and please letus know how viable it turns out to be.

I've never been a DM-for-hire but I do work part-time as a tutor. Let me make a business suggestion for you...

MONTHLY MEMBERSHIP. Yep, $7/session means they can come to one session and never come back and you only get $7. $30/month means they can come to one and never come back and you get $30. At the same time it rewards those who really get into the campaign and become regulars, because if they come to more than one session per week they are saving money over the $7/session rate.

Having a monthly rate is a great way to establish a loyal customer base because they feel like they're getting more value if they come more often. Plus if you can set up a recurring payment on credit card or debit card it is less likely they will stop coming when their cell phone bill goes up or whatever.

The big bonus for you is that you're already planning on running a set number of sessions per week. So letting a paying customer come unlimited times per month does not increase your workload at all. It's all win for the customer and you and it makes more money.

(Once they pay membership you can also call it a "Club" and then it becomes a little more exclusive-sounding, which members like.)

The only trick is that if you go with a monthly membership fee you pretty much have to not offer a session-by-session rate at all. Because if it's $7 per session then the monthly fee has to be less than $28 to sound like a deal and that's gonna cut into your income a bit. Of course you could always offer a trial game for $7 and then if they like it have them become a monthly member.

Just ideas. Good luck!

ap

lisiecki
2009-02-12, 02:18 PM
MONTHLY MEMBERSHIP. Yep, $7/session means they can come to one session and never come back and you only get $7. $30/month means they can come to one and never come back and you get $30. At the same time it rewards those who really get into the campaign and become regulars, because if they come to more than one session per week they are saving money over the $7/session rate.


See I just can't get my brain around paying to play with a bunch of strangers.
The RPGA lets you do the same thing for free.

The only pay for play game i can think of, is the Camarillia, that's $20 a year, and here in Michigan you can realistically go to 25 or so games a month (at least around here)

kjones
2009-02-12, 04:53 PM
I really think you need to reconsider your target market. As a college student, I can tell you right now that I can't think of any of my student friends who would pay for, or play in, such a game.

It seems to me that this will be a lot of work for not a lot of money. In my experience, trying to turn something that you do for fun into a job means that it stops being fun.

I'm not trying to stop you - I think it's a cool idea. I just think that you need to carefully consider all the challenges beforehand, or you'll end up wasting a lot of time and money, and hating D&D.