World Of Warcraft Thread V - The Lich King Strikes Back

[Leon]

And thus it was.

Hoping to tryout the Higher Learning trick when servers come back (or not, misread the time that they'll be back...)

[mangosta71]

Yeah, bunch of people on Whisperwind got it a few weeks ago when we were having server issues. We'd get about half an hour between crashes.

They seem to have fixed the bug for catching Old Crafty on the croc fishing daily. :smallfrown: On the plus side, there's nothing quite like taking down a trio of horde bastards (plus a pair of NPC guards) while they're trying to mess with you while you're fishing in Org.

[Leon]

Well i was there, All were fakes bar one, one of the 3 that i have

[TheEmerged]

RE: Higher Learning. Thing is, I'm normally at work when the servers come back up so I can't try that.

RE: Expertise discussion from previous thread. See, this is what I was joking about when I said that 'everybody else would like to know too' earlier. Just about every time I see this come up, everyone throws different numbers around.

RE: Patch 3.1. Well, they've corrected themselves on the bit about consumable ammunition. They want to do it, and the changes to how ammo bags/quivers work is still scheduled for 3.1, but the removal of the ammunition itself won't make it for that patch.

[Insert Name Here]

RE: Expertise discussion from previous thread. See, this is what I was joking about when I said that 'everybody else would like to know too' earlier. Just about every time I see this come up, everyone throws different numbers around.

Alright, just for information's sake. I'll restate what I think I know.
The expertise cap is 6.5% for raid bosses dodging from behind. Parry numbers are different, each boss being tuned anywhere from 5-15%
Hit cap is 9% for raid bosses, 17% for spell hit.
For heroics (two levels above you) Cap for all three is 6%, although I think mobs have a 14% parry chance two levels above you.

[Vonriel]

I know elitist jerks has a parry calculation section on their site somewhere, I'm just too lazy to go look it up to link to it for you fine folks of the playground.

I only know that not near enough gear has expertise on it, meaning I'm likely to be gemming for it if I want to hit the cap - something I'm not terribly keen on right now, as I'd rather have avoidance over expertise, and being a pally tank, I don't think a lack of expertise will hurt me as much as it would hurt the other tank types. Yes, I do know it's important and I'd be wrong to ignore it, thanks for correcting me, but I figure with a 1h sword (human pally :smallbiggrin:) and the seal of vengeance glyph, I can get more than enough at the start.

Dual specs can't possibly come soon enough! That is all.

[Player_Zero]

But... Dual specs is pretty much the same as it is now only you won't have to assign the talent points again.

The way I understand it, you still have to go to the trainer and change it. I'm pretty sure it'll still cost money. Maybe not as much, but I don't personally change talents often. Maybe a paladin who tanks and heals for his guild on command would find it convenient or something, but it isn't a particularly amazing change unless you change your spec every five minutes for no particular reason.

Also, the word spec... It's short for specification? How does that make sense in context?

Also also, people who say 'pst me'. It's like saying personal PIN number or automated ATM machine...

[TheEmerged]

But... Dual specs is pretty much the same as it is now only you won't have to assign the talent points again.

The way I understand it, you still have to go to the trainer and change it. I'm pretty sure it'll still cost money. Maybe not as much, but I don't personally change talents often. Maybe a paladin who tanks and heals for his guild on command would find it convenient or something, but it isn't a particularly amazing change unless you change your spec every five minutes for no particular reason.

Also, the word spec... It's short for specification? How does that make sense in context?

Also also, people who say 'pst me'. It's like saying personal PIN number or automated ATM machine...

Actually, it's short for Specialization, and yes Dual Specializations is a bit of a misnomer.

Let's keep in mind that Blizzard has released VERY little information about how it will work, and that they've made it clear that anything they *have* said about it is subject to change. I wouldn't at all be surprised if what we end up with resembles the 'hero class' fiasco -- something that bears only a tangental relationship with what is expected but is just close enough Blizzard feels they aren't lying.

Personally I think they'd be better off if they dumped the idea and just revisited the trees for some of the classes so they weren't quite so specialized, but that would probably causes more problems (especially PR) than it would solve so...

[Mattarias, King.]

Also also, people who say 'pst me'. It's like saying personal PIN number or automated ATM machine...

:smallbiggrin: Ah, yes. We had a rather famous "pirate" by the name of Yar on my server back in the day. He replied to those kinds of things as they occurred in trade. He ate savory delights and "sailed" the aldor elevator, going "Please Please Send Tell me? Arr, I dun' think so, matey!" and such if you ever made a silly mistake as that. Gave him a free enchant for making me laugh.

[Vonriel]

That's awesome, Mattarias.

Player_Zero, as a priest, I can imagine that you don't respec too often, but for certain classes and even people - because I know there are priests out there who raid as a healing spec but grind dailies and such for money as dps, even if I don't know any personally - who like to respec from their raid spec into a more solo-friendly one. When you do it often, you eventually make a mistake in placing a point, and sometimes that can be pretty bad for a spec. Personally, even if you still have to pay, I'd still like having my points already spent so I can switch back and forth between my ret and prot spec without having to waste time making sure that every point I place is in the right spot.

TheEmerged, that's a good idea, I feel, because I can't quite come up with any downsides, but at the same time I feel there's something fundamentally wrong when a moonkin druid and a tree druid can heal and dps equally well. What, then, becomes the point of choosing one tree over the other? It would vastly reduce options, and take some of the mechanical differences out of the game, which some people like having around.

[Khanderas]

TheEmerged, that's a good idea, I feel, because I can't quite come up with any downsides, but at the same time I feel there's something fundamentally wrong when a moonkin druid and a tree druid can heal and dps equally well. What, then, becomes the point of choosing one tree over the other? It would vastly reduce options, and take some of the mechanical differences out of the game, which some people like having around.I agree, point of specialization -anything is that you get better with some things and not on other. There need to be differences between the trees and frankly Blizzard has done immense improvments pretty much alll the time. I like the way it is very well.
Before launch the plan was to not allow respecs at all. Yup, never (except major classchanges I'd imagine). And even at the max cost now, 50 gold, is nothing you cant earn in 10 minutes anyway at max level.

The idea of two mainspecs intregue me. Even if it is just "Spec_1" and "Spec_2" that you can switch between, with or without cost, at a trainer or the ability to switch between them, say once an hour but anywhere (oh you need a tank... /flex... now I am that).

Managed to get my rogue up to 80 for the last elder coins. Love the fan o knives. Frankly it is needed to be any kind of viable dps anywhere. I am also considering speccing out of combat into mutilate, since I may be doing alot more instances on the rogue now.

One reason for my subnormal dps could be I have not yet found any replacement for my Sword of Azhara from Serpentshrine Cavern. Nothing I got from quests, including the arena of anguish in Zuldrak, has come close. And its not just because it has +hit that I need dearly, even the top end damage on it is more then most 1h I found in questing all of Borean, grizzly, howling fjord, most of dragonblight and some visits to the other zones except icecrown.

Hopefully this will change with a naxx 10man or two. Still. I find very few things that are upgrades and it shows on my dps. Hunters 2 levels below me, wins even on single target dps. Extremly casual that I may be on rogues.

[Player_Zero]

Hopefully this will change with a naxx 10man or two. Still. I find very few things that are upgrades and it shows on my dps. Hunters 2 levels below me, wins even on single target dps. Extremly casual that I may be on rogues.

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=44250
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=37235
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=44187

Heroics. That way you can pull your weight in a raid.

[Icewalker]

Heeeey everyone. I've started up with WoW again since about Christmas when I got Wrath. Haven't started with my 70 priest yet, but I made a Death Knight who is now 77, Zagadka. I'm on Ysera server.

[Khanderas]

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=44250
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=37235
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=44187

Heroics. That way you can pull your weight in a raid.
Thanks, I'll check into those links tonight, wowhead is blocked at work... for some reason :smallredface:
But I was unable to enter heroics before 10 pm yesterday, but ill be on that soon. And my guildies kinda owe me a sweetrun though naxx 10man anyways with all the raids I done on my pally there (about every 25man and every 10 man except the last week since... grinding my rogue 70-80 for the elder coins).

[leperkhaun]

www.wow-loot.com

pick your class, see whats in the instances.

Also buy your weapons if you have too. As we tell people who raid in the guild i am in dont expect to be carried through raids. Do everything you can to gear before. Run heroics, buy gear off of AH, do your rep grinds, buy your badge gear. Pug OS and Vault.

[mangosta71]

Managed to get my rogue up to 80 for the last elder coins. Love the fan o knives. Frankly it is needed to be any kind of viable dps anywhere. I am also considering speccing out of combat into mutilate, since I may be doing alot more instances on the rogue now.

May want to hold off on that. The reported changes for 3.1 are massive buffs to combat. Meanwhile, Blizz stated that they wanted to increase mutilate dps, and apparently the best way to do that is a 20% decrease in the damage of our primary attack. Much like they wanted to reduce fury warrior dps in 3.0.8, so they added 5% hit to TG. Seriously, what the ****? I've come to the conclusion that the devs are a bunch of retarded monkeys.

[Vonriel]

Icecrown is home to a lot of nice blue quest rewards, too. I'm fairly certain you can find an upgrade or two there while making a good deal of cash along the way.

Welcome back to the fold, Icewalker. As you'll see, your name fits here much better than in stinky old Starcraft. It's time to abandon all ties and submit fully to us. We have cake! :smallcool: :smalltongue:

[TheEmerged]

I agree, point of specialization -anything is that you get better with some things and not on other. There need to be differences between the trees and frankly Blizzard has done immense improvments pretty much alll the time. I like the way it is very well.
Before launch the plan was to not allow respecs at all. Yup, never (except major classchanges I'd imagine). And even at the max cost now, 50 gold, is nothing you cant earn in 10 minutes anyway at max level.

The idea of two mainspecs intregue me. Even if it is just "Spec_1" and "Spec_2" that you can switch between, with or without cost, at a trainer or the ability to switch between them, say once an hour but anywhere (oh you need a tank... /flex... now I am that).

See, my main is a mage so dual spec'ing means little to that character. If I PvP'd I might see having a PvP vs PvE spec, but I PvP very little (I catch myself doing a bit of Wintergrasp).

Now on my druid, it's a different subject. I've essentially put the druid on hold pending further info on how the dual-spec will work. I'm tempted to "dual spec" as bear & cat, but reality will probably be feral-resto.

And don't misunderstand what I mean when I say they should revamp the trees rather than dual spec. For a while there Blizzard was putting talents moderately-high in one tree that improved your 'secondary' abilities, like the shaman enhancement talent that gives you a bit of spell damage/healing for attack power. They need more of this -- I'd say they need a LOT more of this. I'm not saying there shouldn't be decisions, I'm saying those decisions shouldn't be as stark as they are for some classes.

[Leon]

The Ice Stone has melted!

[Player_Zero]

Gief Love Fool plix.

[AgentPaper]

The Ice Stone has melted!

I've seen this all the time too. What does it mean?! :smallconfused::smalleek:

[Zherog]

No idea, but it was annoying the high hell outta me last night.

[AgentPaper]

Brief googling reveals it as a bug that is being looked into. Rumor has that it's related to the midsummer festival event.

I really need to check google before I ask questions. :smallredface:

[TheEmerged]

RE: Googling WoW info. To each their own, but I find WoWInsider and MMO-Champion to be the better places to search for WoW-related news. MMO-Champion suffers from a raider bias (and a strong one) and WoWInsider has a bit of a signal/noise issue, but if you want to know what's happening *right now* in the game they're both very good sources.

And http://blue.mmo-champion.com/ is as close to the official forums as any sane person needs to get.

RE: Random Loot is Random. Got my Lovely Black Dress from my 2nd LIITA gift this year. I got one the first year but needed to sell it, I had computer problems that limited my participation last year.

[ocato]

RE: Weapons for a Rogue

While I don't play a rogue in WotC (I had a swordie in BC) and therefore can't quite comment specifically, I've found

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=41383
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40703 or
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=44311

make excellent choices for my Dual Wielding Death Knight. I can only imagine that the agility on the second and third make them even nicer, but my spec is entirely without the need or desire to crit with melee attacks and is therefore somewhat different from ye olde sword rogue. Granted, that character's gear is kinda wonky right now, it's really hard to play him with everyone clamoring for my Holy Paladin to heal their heroics.

Golgas- Holy Paladin
Deras- Frost Death Knight
Grizzly Hills

[sihnfahl]

I made a Death Knight who is now 77, Zagadka. I'm on Ysera server.
Have you decided on your endgame role and spec?

[mangosta71]

RE: Weapons for a Rogue

While I don't play a rogue in WotC (I had a swordie in BC) and therefore can't quite comment specifically, I've found

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=41383
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40703 or
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=44311

make excellent choices for my Dual Wielding Death Knight. I can only imagine that the agility on the second and third make them even nicer, but my spec is entirely without the need or desire to crit with melee attacks and is therefore somewhat different from ye olde sword rogue. Granted, that character's gear is kinda wonky right now, it's really hard to play him with everyone clamoring for my Holy Paladin to heal their heroics.

Golgas- Holy Paladin
Deras- Frost Death Knight
Grizzly Hills

With the reported plans for the changes to combat, maces are going to be the best choice for rogues who can get their hands on a pair. I'm looking at Angry Dread (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40189) for my MH and Split Greathammer (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40264) for my OH. Assuming the bloody things drop. Calamity's Grasp (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40383) and Webbed Death (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=39714) is probably the second best combo, but I don't have either of those yet either, though I did manage to pick up Murder (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40368) this week and it's almost as good as WD. Kinda bummed that I spent so much dkp on Sinister Revenge (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40386) a couple weeks ago. Think mutilate will still outclass combat daggers, though I may play with that spec just to see what I can do with it. Shudder to think of what soloing will be like with my main special having that position requirement. Guess I can keep PvP mutilate for my second spec, and that wouldn't be so bad...

The biggest problem with combat daggers is still being starved for talents. This (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=f0gc0hZhgV0xcxoru0xRtxb) looks like the best I can do. Really need 10 more points to bring it up to par with other combat specs.

[TheEmerged]

OFFICIAL DUAL SPEC INFO

Sources: http://www.wowhead.com/?blog=69839
http://www.wowinsider.com/2009/02/12/dual-spec-qanda-with-ghostcrawler/
http://blue.mmo-champion.com/1/14990445500-talent-dual-spec-qa-with-ghostcrawler.html
http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?topic=39062.0

1> You will gain it at max level for a one-time fee/quest/details to follow.
2> You can only change it at a Lexicon of Power (currently in cities).
3> However, inscription is being given the ability to create a Lexicon out in the world with the help of other players (like a Mage Table).
4> You will have separate glyphs and hotbars for both specs.
5> You have to pay to respec each spec separately.
6> As part of this change, Hunters will no longer have to pay to respec their pets, and are going to be gaining some method of accessing the stable remotely.
7> You will be able to play around with your talents in-game without making a permanent change (essentially, an in-game talent calc).
8> They've announced that a "Gear Manager" function is going in similar to the Outfitter addon, but no details other than that it might not make it all the way into 3.1.

[Mattarias, King.]

...Ok, that's it. When this is implemented, I'm yelling "IT'S MORPHIN' TIME!" whenever I start a lexicon-summoning so people can change.

I don't plan to leave Fire, but lemme say, EXCELLENT. :smallbiggrin:

[Philistine]

OFFICIAL DUAL SPEC INFO

Sources: http://www.wowhead.com/?blog=69839
http://www.wowinsider.com/2009/02/12/dual-spec-qanda-with-ghostcrawler/
http://blue.mmo-champion.com/1/14990445500-talent-dual-spec-qa-with-ghostcrawler.html
http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?topic=39062.0

1> You will gain it at max level for a one-time fee/quest/details to follow.
2> You can only change it at a Lexicon of Power (currently in cities).
3> However, inscription is being given the ability to create a Lexicon out in the world with the help of other players (like a Mage Table).
4> You will have separate glyphs and hotbars for both specs.
5> You have to pay to respec each spec separately.
6> As part of this change, Hunters will no longer have to pay to respec their pets, and are going to be gaining some method of accessing the stable remotely.
7> You will be able to play around with your talents in-game without making a permanent change (essentially, an in-game talent calc).
8> They've announced that a "Gear Manager" function is going in similar to the Outfitter addon, but no details other than that it might not make it all the way into 3.1.

The good news is, Blizzard does listen to customer feedback.

The bad news is, it takes them four and a half years to do anything about it.

For that matter, items 7 and 8 have been long-desired, too.

[TheEmerged]

The good news is, Blizzard does listen to customer feedback.

The bad news is, it takes them four and a half years to do anything about it.

For that matter, items 7 and 8 have been long-desired, too.

The sad thing about the bad news is, Arcane Mages are about to be nerfed over something they've been doing for 4.5 years (disclaimer: I'm a *frost* mage).

[Zherog]

The sad thing about the bad news is, Arcane Mages are about to be nerfed over something they've been doing for 4.5 years (disclaimer: I'm a *frost* mage).

elaborate, please? :)

[Khosan]

elaborate, please? :)

Presence of Mind and Arcane Power have a linked cooldown now. PoM triggers a 1.5 second cooldown that disallows the use of AP, and AP triggers a cooldown which disallows the use of PoM for its duration.

AP also had its damage bonus lowered by 10%. Both PoM and AP had their cooldowns dropped to two minutes as semi-compensation.

[Ego Slayer]

Arghhhhhhhhhhhh. Someone wanna tell me what the frack is up with that Xev guy in VH? The one who summons the orbs. Probably wasn't a good thing that it was on Heroic that I finally got him the first time. We died 2-3 times before giving up. I was trying to kite him up the stairs, but then the second he teleports us to him, we're almost immediately dead or dead soon after because the healer isn't in range or some crap. The last time we tried, I was able to kite him away from the orbs fast enough to not die, but it was AWAY from the healer, so I had to pop LoH to stay alive. I should have looked to see where the healer was, but that takes too much time when you're standing in the orbs. :smallfurious:

[Wandiya]

Is survival any good for leveling as a hunter? Explosive shot looks pretty nice:smallsmile: only problem is that my highest level non exotic pet is 73 and I'm fighting level 80s should i go tame something else at my level for just wait out the 2 1/2 levels till I'm 80 with a bad pet? Character is This (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Caelestrasz&n=Wandiya)

[Mattarias, King.]

Arghhhhhhhhhhhh. Someone wanna tell me what the frack is up with that Xev guy in VH? The one who summons the orbs. Probably wasn't a good thing that it was on Heroic that I finally got him the first time. We died 2-3 times before giving up. I was trying to kite him up the stairs, but then the second he teleports us to him, we're almost immediately dead or dead soon after because the healer isn't in range or some crap. The last time we tried, I was able to kite him away from the orbs fast enough to not die, but it was AWAY from the healer, so I had to pop LoH to stay alive. I should have looked to see where the healer was, but that takes too much time when you're standing in the orbs. :smallfurious:

Ohohoh, the trick, my dear slayer of egos, is to tank him in the water. :smallcool: Not too deep, of course. Swim-tanking is awkward.

/dramatic hair flick

[Ego Slayer]

Ohohoh, the trick, my dear slayer of egos, is to tank him in the water. :smallcool: Not too deep, of course. Swim-tanking is awkward.

/dramatic hair flick
W...w...why? << Okay, orbs can't go in the water? How close can they actually be to him without effect? o.o; I don't recall that pool/tunnel being very large.

[Philistine]

Is survival any good for leveling as a hunter? Explosive shot looks pretty nice:smallsmile: only problem is that my highest level non exotic pet is 73 and I'm fighting level 80s should i go tame something else at my level for just wait out the 2 1/2 levels till I'm 80 with a bad pet? Character is This (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Caelestrasz&n=Wandiya)

I believe the "prime" levelling spec for Hunters is still Beast Mastery. That said, this is still WoW we're talking about here: you'll be able to reach max level with any spec, it's just that some are easier and/or more efficient. I levelled my own Hunter from 10-60 as Marks, back in the day.

[Mattarias, King.]

W...w...why? << Okay, orbs can't go in the water? How close can they actually be to him without effect? o.o; I don't recall that pool/tunnel being very large.

Ah, that's the beauty of it. The orbs won't go anywhere near the water. A good place is right about the barrier between swimming and standing. Have the blasters swim if you wish, just in case.

[Ego Slayer]

Ah, that's the beauty of it. The orbs won't go anywhere near the water. A good place is right about the barrier between swimming and standing. Have the blasters swim if you wish, just in case.
Dang... sounds like a plan! Too bad I didn't know this BEFORE pissing a group off... who, obviously, didn't know any better than I did. :smalltongue: Thanks...<<

[Player_Zero]

Arghhhhhhhhhhhh. Someone wanna tell me what the frack is up with that Xev guy in VH?

I told you a method of doing this in game.

[Ego Slayer]

I told you a method of doing this in game.
Oh c'mon... I'm not going to actually remember how something works until I piss off a party over it and the horrible images are forever burned into my head. :smallyuk:

[Leon]

Both PoM and AP had their cooldowns dropped to two minutes as semi-compensation.

HAH, that is not compensation (Note: i play a Frost Mage)

I feel i should add, i had 2 Arcane Mages, they're now Fire with 11 points in Arc for Focus magic

[Draken]

Well. With the cooldown talented down to 1.20 seconds I find the nerf mostly acceptable.

Shame I will no longer be able to full-on burn Korth'Azz for 19.000 damage a critical in Heroic Naxx...

That was fun.

By the way. I decided to make a Death Knight in Cenarion Circle. I just can't get myself to level a character from zero (20 currently actually) again. How is the guild in CC faring?

Also: On Violet Hold.

The Voidwalker is far more annoying than the Ethereal.

[Insert Name Here]

Hmm. Sadly, I never knew about the water trick when I got him, which made him a pain. Naturally, when I found out, he stopped spawning.
I haven't ever gotten the voidwalker, so I don't know. I hear some bad things about him (and his stacking healing debuff) though.
We never wiped to Xevozz despite that, though, although LoS is a pain and summoning to the middle of the three orbs can suck.

[The Linker]

How was I the only one not to notice the new thread was up? Gah! You know, I think you're supposed to end the last thread with a link to the next thread, for all of us who read the forums near-exclusively through subscribed threads. Meanies. :smalltongue:

[Vonriel]

Please, the voidwalker is cake. You can get the A Void Dance achievement pretty easily with a good healer/tank, you just kite the voidwalker around the room while the dps burns him down asap. If you aren't going for the achievement, you ... well, here's where things get hard, because you're asking dps to actually pay attention to something. :smalltongue:

The fight works like so: The voidwalker summons little immobile orbs that shoot stuff at the party. They can't be killed until the voidwalker himself starts passing out this DoT that lets the player affected see - and therefore, attack - the adds, which are megapansies (only 500 health on normal, 2k on heroic). Oh, and hope you have a dispeller, because his other big thing is he gets a magic buff that reduces healing taken by any target that damages him by 20%.

Oh noes, arcane mages can't instagib an enemy player every 3 minutes any more. Woe is them! :smalltongue: Seriously, after ret pallies had Avenging Wrath put back on Forebearance to prevent the Divine Shield+Avenging Wrath=12 seconds of pwnage combo, I'm surprised it took them this long to get rid of the Arcane Power+Presence of Mind combo.

[KnightDisciple]

Well, more precisely, you can't shield and AW within 30 seconds. AW doesn't actually trigger forbearance.
*Nitpick by Retadin*

[ocato]

They fixed the orbs in the water deal, I'm told. I always kite him around the outside, never had a huge problem.

[The Orange Zergling]

About Violet Hold:

I find I fear the Void Walker far more, as a tank. Paladins with Shadow Resistance Aura and Priests with Prayer of Shadow Resistance (out of curiosity, do these two stack?) help quite a bit during the fight, and I hear Anti-magic Zone does as well, although I haven't been with a Death Knight who's tried it.

Xevozz: My strategy is to keep him put and generate as much aggro as possible until he summons the Orbs. Then, back up and go up the ramp he's right next to. Keep backing up, never stop for anything. When the Orbs summon you to him, I Feral Charge him (if you're a Paladin or Death Knight I don't know of any equivalent, sorry) immediately to get out of the Orbs and then proceed to keep kiting him back. If he summons the Orbs again, reverse directions and back away from the stairs back towards the original ramp, as he'll summon them on the lower floor. Also, I hear the Water trick no longer works but I can't confirm this.

EDIT: Oh, you're a Paladin... umm, nevermind then. <.<

[mangosta71]

Shadow Resistance Aura and Priests with Prayer of Shadow Resistance (out of curiosity, do these two stack?)


They do not.

[Vonriel]

Well, more precisely, you can't shield and AW within 30 seconds. AW doesn't actually trigger forbearance.
*Nitpick by Retadin*

Don't try to out-nitpick me. For a while between 3.0.2 and 3.0.8, they had hotfixed avenging wrath to trigger forebearance. It was only with the advent of 3.0.8 I believe that they actually introduced the shared 30-sec cooldown on divine protection, divine shield, hand of protection, and avenging wrath. :smallamused:

As a rule of thumb, two spells/buffs granting a resistance bonus don't stack. Death Knight Frost Aura talent falls under this category, I believe, though the Acclimation talent doesn't.

I had a tank take the ethereal up and around the top with the healer following us and trying to stay in LoS as best as possible, and we never got summoned by the orbs. Whether or not this was as a result of the orbs being out of LoS of the boss, or just sheer dumb luck, or what, I don't know.

[TheEmerged]

Well, think I've sorted my dual specs out.


Mage will be taking a Frostfire spec as her #2. I want to try it out.
Druid is probably going to be going Feral-Bear and Resto. I don't think he's going to be gimped in cat form enough to justify going Feral-Bear and Feral Cat. Of course I have to get him to 80 first, but he's closest (other than my mage, which is already 80).
DK I'm split with on the moment. Remember, I never intended him to be a serious character so I've never thought him out that thoroughly (I specced him Blood because it looked like that was the best choice to quickly get him to the minimum 65th level he needed, now 77 for his minimum). I think I'll experiment with Unholy as his second spec if he gets to 80.
Priest is going shadow and healer. In other news water is wet, politicians lie... She's got to get to 70 before she can even think it.
Shaman I'm a little more torn on, but enhancement and healer is in the lead. Like the priest this is a ways off.
The rogue is in her 50's, and like the mage I don't think it's going to matter THAT much. The warrior is quite a ways off but he'll obviously be taking Prot as his second spec and keeping his arms/fury split as his main. The hunter and paladin are little more than theoretical concerns at the moment (neither has hit 20).

[sihnfahl]

I hear Anti-magic Zone does as well, although I haven't been with a Death Knight who's tried it.
It works, but since it's not part of the top unholy DPS spec, finding a DK with it is a bit of a crapshoot. It does decent, though; 17k was what it was absorbing for me before I went 17/0/54 for raiding.

Dual spec will probably have me adding the unholy tank spec. It'll be nice, since I get called upon for tanking in Eye and Obsidian. A little more survivability there wouldn't be bad for the healers.

[Vaynor]

Looking forward to dual specs, it'll be nice to be able to dps on my DK every once in a while. Especially looking forward to it, as my DK is an inscriptionist.

[sihnfahl]

Looking forward to dual specs, it'll be nice to be able to dps on my DK every once in a while. Especially looking forward to it, as my DK is a scribe.
Fixed.
Unholy is doing lovely damage. Even with some classes doing superior DPS due to gear level (I need a few upgrades), I still come out near the top on the overall damage done for the run. Unholy AOE is the utter hax.

Although I'm really happy now that I got my Obsidian Greathelm, Collar of Dissolution and Death's Bite. I've hit the Expertise cap, well over the hit cap for a draenei DK, and still have near the best in slot for almost everything (just need trinket, wrist and cloak upgrades now).

Freaked an UD warlock when my first autoattack hit him for 2k. Then again, the fact that he landed in the middle of my Army of the Dead while strangulated probably didn't help his nerves either.

[leperkhaun]

for Xev, tank kite him on the left side up the stairs then on the balcony towards the other stairs. The important thing is to not go slow. Make sure the orbs cannot line of sight the boss because if they do they teleport. As long as the orbs cant LOS the boss then you wont get teleported.

Once you have dragged him to the second set of stairs tank and spank him there until he resummons his orbs. Then tank kite him on the upper or lower part depending on where they spawn (ussually on the lower part so tank him on the upper part).

Have all your DPS/Healers INFRONT of the boss, not between the boss and the orbs.

for the void walker, honestly as a tank there isnt much you can do. That fight is mostly about people getting phased killing the adds (unless you are going for an achivement) and the healer having the throughput to heal through the aoe damage.

[TheEmerged]

RE: Dual Speccing. Those of us more familiar with WoW's metagame won't be surrpised here, but since we have multiple playstyles on this board...


With new features we have learned that players tend to be much more forgiving if we are too stringent at first and relax requirements over time, than if we give away too much and end up having to "nerf" a feature that turned out to be overly generous.

I think the implementation of dual spec you are likely to see when the PTR goes live is going to have some substantial differences from the initial announcement. We tend to iterate a great deal, which is one of the reasons we don't do big announcements more often.

Source (http://blue.mmo-champion.com/27/14990657573-dual-spec-disappointment-healing.html)

Translation: don't take the dual-spec info they've released as a done deal. This is Blizzard, they change their minds more often than I change socks. Things you like about it could be taken away, things you don't like could be added, and so on.

My policy is to plan based on their statements but not to believe it (or spend gold) until it's installed on my machine.

[sihnfahl]

My policy is to plan based on their statements but not to believe it (or spend gold) until it's installed on my machine.
And even then, they may change it in subsequent patches.

[mangosta71]

I see the cost of the dual spec as being akin to the epic flying mount in BC. Something that very few players will be able to afford when it's released, and everyone else will just have to farm cash for a couple months. They haven't announced the cost yet, but I won't be surprised if it's more than I consider being worth, since I respec extremely rarely.

[Khanderas]

I see the cost of the dual spec as being akin to the epic flying mount in BC. Something that very few players will be able to afford when it's released, and everyone else will just have to farm cash for a couple months. They haven't announced the cost yet, but I won't be surprised if it's more than I consider being worth, since I respec extremely rarely.

If we gotta farm for months then the amount of cash must be insane indeed.

I think it would be more around a small questline (atleast I hope) perhaps with reagents worth about 1k gold or so (afterall cold weather flying is much more essential and I am comparing that cost).

They seem to want alot of 80's to use it (I mean they even evaulate if they shall let lower level players have it, later on) so the cost should not become prohibitive compared to the 5-50 gold a normal respec costs.
The benefit is not less cost really, the real benefit is that healers and tanks will be easier to get, speeding up the game for pretty much anyone.
Tanks / healers can have an offspec for dps/farming.... or PvP / PvE. That is the benefit, not some kind of gold saving over time.

[Leon]

64 levels a Retadin, got fed up with not getting groups and Specced Holy, im loving it.
Holy has changed so much since i last tried to play one... i know ive read about the changes and such but until you try it for yourself you don't know how it is.
Only trouble ive had is gear, still got half ret gear on and ive been grabbing everything i can with Int, Crit and Spellpower.

I still need a lot of practice in healing management tho, before im really happy with it

Just Hit 68 and i cant wait to gear up better in Northrend without wearing a massive mix of all amour types, cos Dwarves look good in plate (well they good in everything but Dwarf and Heavy Armour go hand in hand)

404 Error in Spell Power (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Archimonde&n=Kasife)

I have a feeling that i'll go into NR for a bit, grab some gear and then head back to OL to tidy up and keep chipping away at my Engineering (Really Want the Justicebringer 2000 Specs and my Flying Machine)

[Vonriel]

I think most plate rewards in OL are caster loot, while most plate rewards in northrend are dps loot, so you may not find much. I know there's a couple casty shields out there, but I'm fairly certain that's about it outside the instances.

The part about holy that was hard for me was when it came to healing aoe damage done to a group, but if you can get around that, holy may be the spec for you.

[TheEmerged]

Hmm, so teh interwebs DID eat my post last night... :smalleek:

Personally, I think it's going to end closer to 1000g than 5000g -- and I won't be shocked if it's closer to 100g than either of those figures. They've made it clear that they feel this is a major feature of WotLK they want most of the playerbase to experience. Most of the playerbase has an 80th level character now. I figure they want it to cost enough to pull gold out of circulation but not enough that people need to spend more than a week working at it, hence the 1000g figure.

Speaking of gold? 5000 of it left circulation on my server last night :smallbiggrin: I can't afford an artisan-speed mount just yet, but at long last my main has gotten the training (my druid alt earned it shortly before WotLK hit, because I feared it would be difficult to get the flight form with nobody running TBC heroics once WotLK hit).

[Leon]

Indeed there is a lot of DPS loot in NR but there is also enough Caster Loot about.
As i mentioned, need a lot more practice on healing and the varied situations, so ive more of a off healer atm

[Philistine]

Blizzard has acknowledged that dual-speccing isn't actually useful if it's more expensive/annoying than just porting back to town and paying the 50g to respec whenever needed. If it costs 1000g, it would only be worthwhile for someone expecting to respec at least 201 times. So not very useful for very many people.

[Khanderas]

Blizzard has acknowledged that dual-speccing isn't actually useful if it's more expensive/annoying than just porting back to town and paying the 50g to respec whenever needed. If it costs 1000g, it would only be worthwhile for someone expecting to respec at least 201 times. So not very useful for very many people.
I disagree.
First I would like to know how blizzard acknowledged that dual-spec isnt particulary useful. I have a feeling they, and many players do think it will be a very welcome and popular addition.
Second, cost is not really the issue. Players happily blow 18 k gold (that is with fees) for a mount that is a motorbike with few and mostly ignored extra benefits from a mount that costs not even 1/100th of that.
The benefit is promoting actually using a secondary spec my making it simpler and easier to switch spec. Example being me as a ret paladin... I can just switch in dalaran to a tanking spec and be ready instantly, as opposed to running to orgimmar (wait for summon or herth back) and run the instance, then switching back afterwards for another hearth and another 10+ minutes cost of time.

Now that tanking and healing classes are more then viable as solo / dps, to help out on PUGs and any instancing, the convenience for this will be, a couple of weeks after its introduction, a question of "how come we never had this from launch 4 years ago" rather then "is it worth the bother".

[Player_Zero]

Blizzard has acknowledged that dual-speccing isn't actually useful if it's more expensive/annoying than just porting back to town and paying the 50g to respec whenever needed. If it costs 1000g, it would only be worthwhile for someone expecting to respec at least 201 times. So not very useful for very many people.

Maths.

1000 = 20 * 50

[mangosta71]

Keep in mind that Blizz apparently doesn't feel that 5k on your epic flying training is prohibitive. And yes, they expect everyone in Northrend to have it, seeing as how every flying mount in LK requires it.

[Vonriel]

Keep in mind that Blizz apparently doesn't feel that 5k on your epic flying training is prohibitive. And yes, they expect everyone in Northrend to have it, seeing as how every flying mount in LK requires it.

I quested from 70 to 80 on my paladin, doing the odd instance run. When I hit 80, I was less than 1k gold away from my epic flying training, and right around 1k from both the mount and training. So, it's definitely possible to have the money at/soon after hitting 80, if you're capable of restricting yourself from blowing it all at the AH to buy shiny new things or skill up professions.

[TheEmerged]

Keep in mind that Blizz apparently doesn't feel that 5k on your epic flying training is prohibitive. And yes, they expect everyone in Northrend to have it, seeing as how every flying mount in LK requires it.

Uh, no (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=44554). I've been using this one for well over a month now. I got artisan flight two nights ago.


First I would like to know how blizzard acknowledged that dual-spec isnt particulary useful. I have a feeling they, and many players do think it will be a very welcome and popular addition.

I think you missed an important qualifier in what Philistine said.
"Blizzard has acknowledged that dual-speccing isn't actually useful if it's more expensive/annoying than just porting back to town and paying the 50g to respec whenever needed." Yeah, Philistine did the math wrong (it's 20 respecs, not 200) but the point stands anyway. I would like to add that Philistine is right, this *is* a stated opinion of Blizzard's (by GhostCrawler, the main developer that appears on the WoWhineplay forums, if I remember right).

As to how useful it'll be, the answer is that it will depend on class/situation. It means very, VERY little to my main (frost mage), and won't mean much to my rogue either. Since I don't PvP except for Wintergrasp (once a week max, and only on my main right now) it won't benefit me to split as PvE vs PvP either. On some of my other characters (priest comes to mind) it's potentially a REALLY big deal -- but only once they hit 80 (although I won't be surprised if they change this).

[Philistine]

Maths.

1000 = 20 * 50

How embarasskink! :smallredface:

Anyway, TheEmerged is correct about what I meant to say. If Dual Spec is greatly more expensive or inconvenient than hearthing back to town, respeccing for 50g, and getting yourself re-summoned back, then why would anyone bother with it?

[KnightDisciple]

Just busted through Molten Core and Onyxia with some guildies. Took us not quite two hours total. It helped that we had 8-9 80's, with a 60+ and a 70 as well (in MC; I think we had one or two more sub 80s post 70's on Ony).
Also, I got the dragon head. :smallbiggrin:

[freerangetroll]

Indeed there is a lot of DPS loot in NR but there is also enough Caster Loot about.
As i mentioned, need a lot more practice on healing and the varied situations, so ive more of a off healer atm


Healing as a paladin is great fun. Divine plea, even with the 50% healing debuff, ensures you pretty much never go out of mana. Just remember to glyph HoL so it gives splash healing and always keep up Judgement of Light for the melee to heal themselves with.

Once you get about 16K mana unbuffed HoL will be your bread and butter heal. Stat priority would be Int/SP/Crit and you become a healing machine.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Moon+Guard&n=Octave

^ My armory if you wanted to see a pretty good spec and what kind of gear to shoot for.

[Bouregard]

Healing as a paladin is great fun. Divine plea, even with the 50% healing debuff, ensures you pretty much never go out of mana. Just remember to glyph HoL so it gives splash healing and always keep up Judgement of Light for the melee to heal themselves with.

Once you get about 16K mana unbuffed HoL will be your bread and butter heal. Stat priority would be Int/SP/Crit and you become a healing machine.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Moon+Guard&n=Octave

^ My armory if you wanted to see a pretty good spec and what kind of gear to shoot for.

Nice to see a good paladin... You didn't want to know what runs around on my realm...Looking for three days straight for a new healpaladin for ulduar... but nothing good showed up...
some even use the old libram from heroic badges with the mp5... and claiming that its superiorto the actuall one...argh...

Just some tiny little things...
Why do you ignore the socketbonis? Yes Int is pretty much superior but with around 25k-27k mana raidbuffed other stats are a bit more usefull in my opinion and the missing haste and critsocketboni is something I wouldn't miss.
0/1 Aura Mastery? Mhm I ever choose this after classic WoW.
As a good healer you usually stand as far away as possible from any threat so why not spend this single point? You could use 1 from LoH or from the range on judgements... Also this point is kind of a must in every fight where ressistance comes handy due to your aura.


Oh and a big hug for getting Turning Tide... in my guild we officers get in a bit of trouble because warlocks and mages claimed it their item and both want the paladins to use the stupid mace...

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Onyxia&n=Shagrim

(my little shagrim, btw its possible my trinkets and some items are showing resillience... farming stuff is kinda hairy on my realm... trust me 400-500 resillience means the difference against good rogues...)

[freerangetroll]

Nice to see a good paladin... You didn't want to know what runs around on my realm...Looking for three days straight for a new healpaladin for ulduar... but nothing good showed up...
some even use the old libram from heroic badges with the mp5... and claiming that its superiorto the actuall one...argh...

Just some tiny little things...
Why do you ignore the socketbonis? Yes Int is pretty much superior but with around 25k-27k mana raidbuffed other stats are a bit more usefull in my opinion and the missing haste and critsocketboni is something I wouldn't miss.

Mostly gearing philosophy on skipping socket bonus. My HoLs already cast at 1.4 seconds after the stack, and if the egg goes off they go down to .08 second casts. FoL is 1.0 flat. I usually have a shaman focusing me during raids, so I sit before procs at 35% crit after raid buffs. I just feel that gearing for massive amounts of int is the way to go since your mana pool + crit effectively is a pallies "Mp5".




0/1 Aura Mastery? Mhm I ever choose this after classic WoW.
As a good healer you usually stand as far away as possible from any threat so why not spend this single point? You could use 1 from LoH or from the range on judgements... Also this point is kind of a must in every fight where ressistance comes handy due to your aura.

I do agree with you for the most part. However we bring three other pallies to the raid so if anyone isn't covered by an important aura then it is a raid grouping issue. To be honest though, we don't even run resist aura's anymore. So I'm usually stuck with con aura up... which really does nothing and I am standing right next to the ranged dps most times.



Oh and a big hug for getting Turning Tide... in my guild we officers get in a bit of trouble because warlocks and mages claimed it their item and both want the paladins to use the stupid mace...

explain to your mages and locks that Turning Tide is the best in slot weapon currently for a healing paladin. No wasted itemization at all. Unlike the MP5 on the mace. We had a big discussion the night that I got it, and surprisingly the dps casters were all for me getting an equal shot at it.



http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Onyxia&n=Shagrim

(my little shagrim, btw its possible my trinkets and some items are showing resillience... farming stuff is kinda hairy on my realm... trust me 400-500 resillience means the difference against good rogues...)

Nice. :)

[Nano]

I <3 Outlands gear... Just got there with my Furry Warrior and she's already replaced a lot of her stuff. :smallsmile: Getting Titan's Grip next level though... Wewt. Is there anything special about the talent I should know, really?

[freerangetroll]

I <3 Outlands gear... Just got there with my Furry Warrior and she's already replaced a lot of her stuff. :smallsmile: Getting Titan's Grip next level though... Wewt. Is there anything special about the talent I should know, really?

Nope, just hit stuff.

[Kaiser Omnik]

A newbie question...

What is the stat priority for a shaman leveling as enhancement (with 3 points in Mental Dexterity)? I'm level 38 atm.

[Valendiv]

A newbie question...

What is the stat priority for a shaman leveling as enhancement (with 3 points in Mental Dexterity)? I'm level 38 atm.


Here's a handy guide: http://www.wowhead.com/?forums&topic=62324

I'm no expert at Shamans, but this is what I would use at 38: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=hZ0xxIoxzhh

[Kaiser Omnik]

Here's a handy guide: http://www.wowhead.com/?forums&topic=62324

I'm no expert at Shamans, but this is what I would use at 38: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=hZ0xxIoxzhh

Great guide, thanks for the link.

[Insert Name Here]

So, the same group of three that did every instance in Northrend 'cause mom wanted the wispcloak recipe did heroic nexus. Twice.
I got the DPS belt from Keristrasza.
The horde commander was ugly because of whirlwind lag and cleric cross-healing, which wiped us once the second run
Telestra was hard when she duplicated.
Anomalus summoned barely any rifts the first time and was thus trivial. He summoned way more the second time but we got him.
Ormorok was easy once we all just stood underneath him.
Keristrasza was fairly difficult with the roots and such. she also hit fairly hard. we killed her too, though.

[Vaynor]

Fixed.
Unholy is doing lovely damage. Even with some classes doing superior DPS due to gear level (I need a few upgrades), I still come out near the top on the overall damage done for the run. Unholy AOE is the utter hax.

Although I'm really happy now that I got my Obsidian Greathelm, Collar of Dissolution and Death's Bite. I've hit the Expertise cap, well over the hit cap for a draenei DK, and still have near the best in slot for almost everything (just need trinket, wrist and cloak upgrades now).

Freaked an UD warlock when my first autoattack hit him for 2k. Then again, the fact that he landed in the middle of my Army of the Dead while strangulated probably didn't help his nerves either.

I'm currently looking at going diseaseless blood, but I'm not sure my dps gear is quite good enough for that (it requires a high gear level). I leveled unholy, and was 17/0/54 until I switched to tanking, it's one of my favorite trees.

Character update, just broke 31k health unbuffed on my death knight, and I have 74% total avoidance. :smallbiggrin: The Essence of Gossamer dropped last night in H AN (which I have farmed upwards of 30 times to get), and then the stupid, stupid, DPS death knight needed it!! Her defense was that she was tanking main specced, regardless of the fact that I was tanking the instance, and she had not been a tank in months (as our guild does not need tanks at the moment). This wouldn't have been as big of a deal if she had actually been a tank, I'd still be pissed, as I was tanking the instance and thus have priority on tank drops, but oh well, live and let live, eh? Not so much. We do H Nexus afterward, and she takes the epic melee DPS belt from the main-spec retribution paladin. She didn't even do good dps, I was 12% above her on damage as a tank. :smallmad:

However, the horribleness of not getting that trinket (again) was nothing compared to the awesomeness of getting INEVITABLE DEFEAT. :smallbiggrin:

My death knight's tanking gear has progressed quite rapidly (linky (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Eldre%27Thalas&n=Kyras)) and I'm now MTing 25 man Naxx for my guild (the druids take Sarth 2d/Malygos because of their high health pools vs. breath damage). And being a MT for the #3 guild on the server is quite a nice feeling. :smallsmile:

[sihnfahl]

I'm currently looking at going diseaseless blood, but I'm not sure my dps gear is quite good enough for that (it requires a high gear level). I leveled unholy, and was 17/0/54 until I switched to tanking, it's one of my favorite trees.
Yeah, I had floated the idea of diseaseless blood with my guild for Sarth 3D, rather than me being unholy, but it was poo-poo'd.
Reasons for switching:
1) Balance druid already keeping earth and moon up on drakes
2) Second DK specced unholy and tanking
3) Can't use Army reliably due to adds, so they're no help mid-fight (where they'd be needed the most)

Reasons not to switch:
1) Diseaseless blood doesn't keep up frost fever, which triggers Torment of the Weak for mages
2) Ebon Plaguebringer on the adds means faster take-down (but they're talking about me focusing solely on drakes, so this means less)
3) Enhancement Shammy already giving the +ap boost

I may float a DPS frost spec on them...

[mangosta71]

So, title #15 is "Twilight Vanquisher". Going for "of the Nightfall" tonight.

Yeah, you really have to have a druid to tank Sarth +2/3 in 25 man. We had 4 pallies juggling sacrifice, a disc priest's shields, and a holy priest's spirit in addition to the bear's own CDs to keep him alive through the breath with the various buffs/debuffs. Kinda wish we had a regular DK in the raid team. We'd probably make him take the anti-magic bubble thingy to give us another buffer...

In related news, that's a really bad fight to have a lag spike. On one attempt the flame walls came up, I scurried through the gap and started moving back onto whichever drake we were on, and a couple seconds after the walls died down I went flying across the room and took more than 20k in fire ticks. :smallmad:

[TheEmerged]

Weekend Report!

Got my Magnificent Flying Carpet made this weekend. As part of showing off, I finished Explorer: Northrend. I also knocked off enough cooking achievements to notch both the Chef title (which I've quickly adopted) AND Chef de Cuisine. All I need to finish my cooking achievements off is <30 more Dalaran Cooking Awards...

As part of getting CdC, I went to the Draenei newbie area to start those quest chains. Yeah, I'm only about halfway done with the Icecrown quests (which will give me Loremaster Northrend) but since I needed my 160th cooking recipe now was as good a time as any. Besides, I was going to work on finishing off my Kalimdor exploration/quest achievements at some point anyway.

As a lark, I've been killing most of the mobs I need in the Draenei newbie areas off with my staff instead of spells. See, my staff skill is at 399/400 right now and if I can get that magical last point this way, so much the better.

I went ahead and did the 'breadcrumb' quest to Auberdine. I was heartened to see the minimap light up like a Christmas tree decorated by yellow "!" symbols. My memory says I did a bunch of quests here back in the day, but apparently (and fortunately) I must not have done nearly as many as I'd thought.

[Vaynor]

So, title #15 is "Twilight Vanquisher". Going for "of the Nightfall" tonight.

Yeah, you really have to have a druid to tank Sarth +2/3 in 25 man. We had 4 pallies juggling sacrifice, a disc priest's shields, and a holy priest's spirit in addition to the bear's own CDs to keep him alive through the breath with the various buffs/debuffs. Kinda wish we had a regular DK in the raid team. We'd probably make him take the anti-magic bubble thingy to give us another buffer...

In related news, that's a really bad fight to have a lag spike. On one attempt the flame walls came up, I scurried through the gap and started moving back onto whichever drake we were on, and a couple seconds after the walls died down I went flying across the room and took more than 20k in fire ticks. :smallmad:

I've actually heard a lot of unholy death knights tanking the fight, I'm just not unholy or geared enough to do it. Anti-Magic Zone can mitigate entire breaths, and death knights can get pretty ridiculously high health if they stack stam, I know one with 36k unbuffed (which means about 43k raid buffed).

[TheEmerged]

WHOLE lotta new 3.1 info coming out.

Dual-Spec = 1000g (http://www.wowinsider.com/photos/adams-wow-gallery/1381827/full/), they've lowered the level to 40, and it no longer requires the Lexicon. At least right now, pending all relevant disclaimers, etc etc...

[Zherog]

My guild took down Onyxia last night, for the hell of it. There were seven of us online -- 4 80s (including my rogue), a 79, a 77, and a 70.

My rogue came out on top of the damage meters, which surprised me a little bit.

[Player_Zero]

Damnit... Healer legendary mace... I want it... But I don't play any more... The pixels man! THE PIXELS!!

[sihnfahl]

I've actually heard a lot of unholy death knights tanking the fight
Our guild does it with an unholy on Sarth. We breeze through 2D, and we just got 3D. We altered our strategy a bit to handle the first two drakes so that by the time Drake 3 came down, drake 2 was as good as dead. The initial issue was getting the druid tank on drake 1 as fast as possible and with massive threat so that the DPSers could go all out from the get-go.

I was DPSing and acting as Acolyte tank for the portal phases. Much fun doing the presence shifts.

[Ego Slayer]

Damnit... Healer legendary mace... I want it... But I don't play any more... The pixels man! THE PIXELS!!
Pfft, you have to play. What's a tank without a healer? *humph*
I'll just have to heal myself then. Screw you! :smalltongue:

[Khanderas]

Our guild does it with an unholy on Sarth. We breeze through 2D, and we just got 3D. We altered our strategy a bit to handle the first two drakes so that by the time Drake 3 came down, drake 2 was as good as dead. The initial issue was getting the druid tank on drake 1 as fast as possible and with massive threat so that the DPSers could go all out from the get-go.

I was DPSing and acting as Acolyte tank for the portal phases. Much fun doing the presence shifts.
We have also cleared 2 drakes and with the full group it is fairly simple now.
Now 3 drakes we have tried for one session of raiding (3 hours) and while progressed to taking down the first very shortly after the second lands we hit a snag and everyone dies.

I suspect that it has something to do with the debuff that deals shadow damage to self when dps'ing, but my suggestions to enter a portal and kill off an acolyte have met with either no reaction or dismissal along the lines "that will take time we don't have".
Reading your description though, leads me to belive it is more then valid to enter a portal. On what dragon(s) and does it take much time ?

In short: Any tips ?

(Tankwise we do have a DK on sarth, druid for the drakes (one druid for all of them, only problematic when he tanks 2nd and 3rd as they can do breath attacks on dps when he has to adjust to flamewaves) and a prot pally for firelementals and whelps. Also atleast two rogues with anastethic poison)

[Player_Zero]

According to wowwiki you don't have to enter the portal. Is it a raid-wide debuff?

Describe this 'snag'. Is it that the tank die or the next drake comes down or what?

No one is getting hit by lava waves, right?

[sihnfahl]

In short: Any tips ?
Don't enter the portal for Tenebron (first drake). Don't pop Heroism/Bloodlust. Have the druid move into the tanking position when Tenebron's call goes out and have a hunter misdirect as soon as Tenebron is targetable. Have a pally tank pick up fire adds and whelps when they spawn; people who get adds on them stop DPSing, walk to the pally tank's consecrate. All out DPS on Tenebron so that when Shadron comes down, Tenebron's essentially dead.

Any high AOE DPS classes take out the whelps on the pally tank, then focus on Shadron. Pop Heroism/Bloodlust and any max damage abilities on Shadron. You MUST maximize damage because when Vesperon comes down, things get dicey.

Have a DPS unholy DK switch to frost presence, pop into Vesperon's portal and immediately pick up both acolytes. Focus on Vesperon's first since that's the one that has the 'damage done will reflect' raid-wide aura. It should live 9, maybe 10, seconds.

While Shadron and Vesperon are both up, the Sarth tank has to work on their cooldown survival abilities. This is when they take the most damage. This is why it's imperative to minimize Shadron's shared uptime with Vesperon.

Key thing is also watching the lava waves. If the DPSers take down Shadron's acolyte during a lava wave, they better be in a safe spot or ... splat.

Once Shadron goes down, you more or less have the fight. AOE the blazes on the pally tank so they don't get overwhelmed, DPS down Vesperon, and portal hop to take out his acolyte.

[Player_Zero]

Allocating minor negative DKP to people who do die to the lava or the void zones would probably get people to pay more attention.

[Khanderas]

Allocating minor negative DKP to people who do die to the lava or the void zones would probably get people to pay more attention.
Oh we got those down, we do clear him with 2 drakes up without problem.
3 drakes is alot harder then 2 and is rightly considered one of the hardest things to do in WoW currently. We also don't do DKP... basically fulltime raiders before casuals and then /random between those left. If you had an item that day that you upgraded yourself with, you have to wait (raiders still > casuals though). Season with sanity and it is alot smoother then it sounds.

From sihnfal's description I would say our problem was we killed first dragon with bloodlust to have the first one down quickly (goal was to have one flewer clutch of adds spawned), and once it was down, dps on the second one instead of the third one with bloodlust. Thanks sihnfal, Ill pass it along to the guildies on sunday.

[Quincunx]

Khanderas, that's 25-man raids and how many loots per night with the common-sense loot allotment system? My guild uses a similar system for off-night raids with about the same attendance, but the loot has to hover between 10 and 15 pieces (of which 5 are very good quality and the rest can be tossed to the alts being used to pad the numbers) or it breaks down into squabbles or rot.

[Khanderas]

Khanderas, that's 25-man raids and how many loots per night with the common-sense loot allotment system? My guild uses a similar system for off-night raids with about the same attendance, but the loot has to hover between 10 and 15 pieces (of which 5 are very good quality and the rest can be tossed to the alts being used to pad the numbers) or it breaks down into squabbles or rot.
It is indeed 25-man raids, Naxx, Sarth and Malygos. And yes, I know it seems very risky. But I did state, it works better for us then it should :)
The common sense part, if you had "need" loot (stuff you rolled on because you wanted it for you main spec, as opposed to say, ret pallys getting healing plate because "might as well") you pass in favour of those who hasn't had Need loot that day.


I myself, got to roll on the axe from Kelthazaud 25-man (ilevel 226, betrayer of humanity) as a ret paladin. Even though I lost I was almost ashamed to roll on it as I had grabbed 2 ilevel 223 set tokens that very same day. My roll-opponent had some stuff taken as well. I was sure the raidleader, being a DK orc (racial + 2handers exclusivly for that class, almost) would pick it up, but he was gearing for tanking Sarth that day and didnt roll.
Especially nice considering I got two 2-handed ilevel 223 weapons already and I was almost glad I lost the roll.

[mangosta71]

So, Blizz has decided to take away the black and plagued protodrakes because "3.1 will make those achievements trivial" even though they have stated that 6 minute Maly ISN'T SUPPOSED TO BE POSSIBLE WITHOUT ULDUAR (at least) GEAR. Even besides that, Immortal/Undying will not become trivial as long as the level cap is 80, and a lot of the other achievements require more so much coordination that a couple item levels on our gear won't make a difference. Again I have to ask, WHO THE **** ALLOWED THOSE RETARDED MONKEYS TO BECOME DEVS?

[Player_Zero]

6 minute Maly ISN'T SUPPOSED TO BE POSSIBLE WITHOUT ULDUAR GEAR.

Citation needed.


ilevel 223

You mean 213.

200 is Naxx 10 or Sarth 10 without drakes.
213 is Naxx 25 or Ulduar 10 or Sarth 25 without drakes or Malygos 10.
226 is Ulduar 25 or Malygos 25.

I believe this is the case for most every item drop in these places.

[TheEmerged]

So, Blizz has decided to take away the black and plagued protodrakes because "3.1 will make those achievements trivial" even though they have stated that 6 minute Maly ISN'T SUPPOSED TO BE POSSIBLE WITHOUT ULDUAR (at least) GEAR. Even besides that, Immortal/Undying will not become trivial as long as the level cap is 80, and a lot of the other achievements require more so much coordination that a couple item levels on our gear won't make a difference. Again I have to ask, WHO THE **** ALLOWED THOSE RETARDED MONKEYS TO BECOME DEVS?

Teh interwebs just ate my lengthy, borderline-rant response to this. I'll take that as a sign that it crossed the line and probably shouldn't have gone up in that form in the first place. I'll try to summarize.

Bottom line? You allowed those <pointless expletive> to become devs by voting with your wallet. Blizzard has a history of changing their mind (and I'll take that over strident adherance to a VISION(tm) despite mounting evidence). They've caved on numerous standards they previously held, and the price for that means they're going to change their minds on things you like from time to time too.

[Ego Slayer]

'Cos B-Man hasn't posted anything yet...

Whooo. Only 49 runs later. We are done farming. :smallcool:
Maybe I should go back for my own. :P
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f85/EgoSlayer/Images/deathcharger.jpg

[Player_Zero]

'Cos B-Man hasn't posted anything yet...

Whooo. Only 49 runs later. We are done farming. :smallcool:
Maybe I should go back for my own. :P
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f85/EgoSlayer/Images/deathcharger.jpg

What're the chances of that happenin' then, eh? Oh, right, about 40%.

[merccobb]

200 is 5-man heroic end bosses, Naxx 10 or Sarth 10 w/1 drake or less.
213 is Naxx 25 or Ulduar 10 or Sarth 25 w/1 drake or less or Sarth 10 with 2 drakes or more or Malygos/Kel'Thuzad 10.
226 is Ulduar 25 or Malygos/Kel'Thuzad 25 or Sarth with 2 or more drakes.




Just expanding on the general loot rule to reflect that Kel'Thuzad drops ilvl 226 loot as well. Chances are pretty good that, following this pattern, the end boss of Ulduar (speculated to be Yogg-Saron) will drop ilvl 239 loots.

[Player_Zero]

Just expanding on the general loot rule to reflect that Kel'Thuzad drops ilvl 226 loot as well. Chances are pretty good that, following this pattern, the end boss of Ulduar (speculated to be Yogg-Saron) will drop ilvl 239 loots.

Could be. I don't see why there's any specific signifigance to the +13 idea though. I suppose it corresponds to the item budgets they have and whatnot, but there's not much reason why they should increase +13 per tier.

[Ego Slayer]

What're the chances of that happenin' then, eh? Oh, right, about 40%.
Hehe. Sure, whatever you say. :smallbiggrin:

[TheEmerged]

RE: Baron's Mount. Heh, grats to the lucky party. My tankadin friend and I are still working on it, we're only up to 20 tries right now since it was increased to a 1% drop. I've done it *dozens* of times (I stopped counting at 72) before that change and never saw it.

RE: Personal Trumpet Use. I scored a bit of a trifecta last night -- World Explorer (all zones explored), Seeker (3000 quests), and Ambassador (exalted with all home cities). I started the week short 7 SMV quests from Loremaster Outland; between a hidden escort quest, the start of the Netherwing chain, and a "this item starts a quest" chain I was able to finish it off as well.

I've all but cleaned out the 1-20 zones (there are a few involving drops from rare spawns I haven't been able to score) but I need to go back to finishing Icecrown first. I need both Loremaster Kalimdor and Loremaster Northrend, and the quests for Northrend are worth more money :smallredface:

[B-Man]

'Cos B-Man hasn't posted anything yet...

B-Man hasn't posted yet 'cause he was very upset with the terrible raid he had last night and was trying to suppress anger and frustration (verbally) to avoid disturbing the internet police (ie: my parents). Seriously, why does a level eighty have to roll need on Twinblade of the Phoenix (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29993) or the T5 chest token? *mutter*(especially considering that 5 level 70s in the raid did not have Wrath and two of them were still in Rep PvP blues for some of their gear)

But I digress...

WE FINALLY GOT THAT BLASTED MOUNT! :smallbiggrin:

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i36/bman777/WoWScrnShot_022709_192341.jpg
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i36/bman777/WoWScrnShot_022809_021212.jpg

/dance

I got the mount within 24 hours of getting Artisan Flying and it was my tenth mount for Stable Keeper. :smallcool:

Now... what shall be my next big ambition?

[Player_Zero]

I can see why they might want the tier token, I mean, some of those old tiers are pretty snazzy, but the sword? What's the point? You can get a better level 80 instance blue... Not even a heroic blue...

Also, your ambition should be to get WotLK.

[B-Man]

The only thing that gripes me with 80s rolling need on T5 token drops is that they don't need it except to complete a cosmetic set of armour that they've upgraded to T7 or T7.5. That's a greed roll, not need. :smallannoyed:

[Ego Slayer]

They were part of the raid for gear just as much as you were and if you want that kind of "fairness" in gear distribution you'd better go run with a guild who is sympathetic to your level cap. At this point, having put the same time into the run as you did, they are entitled to gear roles for cosmetic reasons. Its not like you're going to be stuck at 70 forever and are missing out on crucial pieces of gear. Go run with capped 70s. :smallconfused: Hell, if did 70 raids and a sweet piece of gear dropped I'd roll for it. Sure, I might feel like a little bit of a jerk, but I have a legit reason to roll on it.

[/irk]

[The Linker]

That does make sense. Imagine you get your 80 friends together and say "Hey, let's go run some raids, we can get those epics we were never able to acquire at 70!" Then you prepare and get all hyped up for it, and someone says "Hey, can we bring some of my 70 friends along? They'd like to see what it's like." and you think "Sure, that'll be fine." Even if you realize by this point that they might actually want to USE the items, well, that kind of destroys the whole point of you going, doesn't it? If you don't get any claim because of the 70s that someone else brang along, that would be... annoying. It's either: Don't go, go knowing it's entirely pointless and you'll get nothing, or use your original plan and go to get lewtz. Alternatively, I guess they could boot the 70s out... :smalltongue:

[B-Man]

I guess I shouldn't be doing raids at all even if I get Wrath 'cause I'll just be a massive ball of stress wanting to destroy everything in my wake. I guess I cannot wrap my mind outside of being level 70 and only having access to BC end-game content.

[Player_Zero]

Raids: srs bizniz. Afterall, computer games: super srs.

[Ego Slayer]

Oh, shush, Zero-chan. :smallsigh:

[Player_Zero]

But really, how can you stress out about raids? It's maybe annoying if you're grouped with a bunch of amateurs and gets locked or whatever, but mostly I just used raid times to make lousy jokes and troll Naxx general chat.

Naxx general chat: way worse than Barrens ever was.

[Vaynor]

Doing 70 raids with 80s would be more stressful, they probably didn't know what they were doing. Raids at 80 are much easier, especially in a raiding guild. Get wrath, and don't worry about it.

Edit: Plus, Naxx is ridiculously easy. You can 2 man Heigan.:smallsigh:

[B-Man]

The stress of raids comes from the over-cocky level 80s that think that they can just straight out DPS Kael, ignored our raid leader, and lead to three wipes. Thought they could win without the Legendary weapons equipped and ignored the phoenixes.

Wrath is still definitely on the back burner due to a lot of circumstances. I don't foresee Wrath in my future whilst I'm trying to sort stuff out on the RL side.

[Player_Zero]

The stress of raids comes from the over-cocky level 80s that think that they can just straight out DPS Kael, ignored our raid leader, and lead to three wipes. Thought they could win without the Legendary weapons equipped and ignored the phoenixes.

You CAN just dps Vael. I've seen it. When I went to get the achievement. No one bothered with tactics or lark like that, just hit him until he fell down.

Also, that isn't stress. That's an annoyance. I fail to see the pressure aspect. It's pure malibu, baby.

Yeah, I just invented a slang term, I'm that cool.


Edit: Plus, Naxx is ridiculously easy. You can 2 man Heigan.:smallsigh:

You would be complaining more if it was too hard. Besides, you wanna' two man him? Okay then, good luck with that, I'll see you in an hour or so. Chances are you'll fail a dance eventually.

Getting pretty tired of people spamming 'ZOMG NAXX IS FREE EPIXLOL' to be honest.

In before 'NO SRSLY, I DID PRENERF SUNWELL ON FARM NAXX IS A JOKE'.

[Khanderas]

Getting pretty tired of people spamming 'ZOMG NAXX IS FREE EPIXLOL' to be honest.

In before 'NO SRSLY, I DID PRENERF SUNWELL ON FARM NAXX IS A JOKE'.
Fair enough to be tired of hearing it. Still my vote is with "too easy" crowd.
Naxx 25man is 2½ hour clear and has been for a while.
All trash, without exception, is AoE'd down. Only thing we can do is self-imposed challenges aka achivments and 3 drake Satharion (and that is just an achivment as well really.. and a mount)

Then you gather a pug of 25 ppl and watch them fail on Black Temple (council if not earlier), sunwell (any boss really), Tempest Keep and even the Twin emperors in AQ-40 (lv 60 instance). I think my opinion is "proven" there.


Supposedly many of the bosses in Ulduar will have different difficulty settings.
Although frankly I fear how lethal the gear is we gain. Assuming a significant upgrade, on my (with raidbuffs) 45% critchance 10 k crit attacks, the numbers will be ridiculus.

[TheEmerged]

Fair enough to be tired of hearing it. Still my vote is with "too easy" crowd.
Naxx 25man is 2½ hour clear and has been for a while.

Keep in mind, for some of us 2.5 hours represents more than we can commit most nights (I could only do it one a Sunday) and have to PUG everything. One man's 'too easy' is another man's 'gee I'd like to try it someday' :smallbiggrin:

[The Linker]

And the first man's "Now THERE'S a challenge!" is the second man's "Uh. I think I'll go check it out on Youtube. ...if I can find the time." :smalltongue:

[Ego Slayer]

Don't take a clueless tank to a timed H CoS and not explain anything until after the fighting has started. Thank the gods the Feral dps was also tanking (which made is really hard for me to be useful in those pulls because I had 0 mana regen ~.~;). We did beat the timer, though, so that was cool. I think we probably woulda died a couple times if I'd been solo-tanking on a timer on a first run. :smallannoyed: Still, that was an epic group. Did H HoL then H Drak and then H CoS and like... half way through HoL the Feral starts tanking also so we just start pulling multiple groups at a time and cleared Drak pretty damn fast 'cos we hardly stopped. :P

And then the healer sorta invited me to have the option to get in on her regular 10/25 Naxx runs at some point... Which'd be sweet since I'm lazy and would never go there otherwise. :smallbiggrin:

I've got a QQ about gear now, though. I picked up a bracers replacement out of CoS and just bought the 40 badge belt. As gear gets better the less Def rating it has on it so I just spent a couple 100g just to keep my Def cap so I could USE my new gear. Irks me that I had to waste the yellow socket on the belt for a +16 Def gem when it should have been Hit or something. I should keep trying for the freaking trinket from Loken so I can at least drop the yellow gem for some Hit. :smallannoyed:

[Player_Zero]

Have you added a prismatic socket to the belt? Ya' know, the one you can buy off the AH for 60g?

[Ego Slayer]

Have you added a prismatic socket to the belt? Ya' know, the one you can buy off the AH for 60g?
Yeah, 'course I do. Except the only cheap blue quality gem that I recall being of much use was the +24 Stam gem. I have to fill that socket with something in the blue category else I lose the meta gem stats from my helm.

[Mattarias, King.]

Yeah, 'course I do. Except the only cheap blue quality gem that I recall being of much use was the +24 Stam gem. I have to fill that socket with something in the blue category else I lose the meta gem stats from my helm.

<.<; What 'bout purple?

[Ego Slayer]

<.<; What 'bout purple?
Yeah, I could gem is with a purple but trying to find the right kind of two-colour socket gem is a pain and for some reason split-stats always pissed me off. I just want one solid stat and leave it there... not this half-and-half craziness. :smallsigh:

[Cubey]

Finding correct two-color gems is a... pain? But it works exactly the same as one-color gems!
They also give bigger benefits, overall. Two orange spell damage/crit gems give a greater boost than one spell damage and one crit. So monocolor ones are good only if you need only one stat. Which never happens.

[Ego Slayer]

Finding correct two-color gems is a... pain? But it works exactly the same as one-color gems!
Except that pretty much every time I've looked through the two socket gems they never seem to have the two stats I actually WANT. I'd rather have, say, a straight out Hit gem than Hit+something I don't really need, especially when trying to aim for caps and such. Now, sure, I could put something else in the blue socket but every time I find a gem that would be best its 80g or something crazy. I'm supposed to be scraping up 2.6k g right now, not buying gems. Its not like I'm raiding and have to be superior all around... just irks me I have to waste sockets on Defense rating of all things. It's easier to GET the cap than it is to keep it. :smallsigh:

There needs to be a gem stat filter in the AH. :smallannoyed:

[Vaynor]

You would be complaining more if it was too hard. Besides, you wanna' two man him? Okay then, good luck with that, I'll see you in an hour or so. Chances are you'll fail a dance eventually.

Getting pretty tired of people spamming 'ZOMG NAXX IS FREE EPIXLOL' to be honest.

In before 'NO SRSLY, I DID PRENERF SUNWELL ON FARM NAXX IS A JOKE'.

No srsly, I did prenerf sunwell on farm naxx is a joke. >.>

Also Ego, how much hit do you have right now? You shouldn't need to gem for it that much. As a tank, the general rule is spam defense gems until you're capped, then replace them with 24 stam gems. Put in a 32 stam meta, and put a +dodge/+stam gem in a red socket to get the meta to work.

As long as you have around 100-150 hit you should be fine, honestly. I just finished tanking Sarth with 3 drakes up and I only have 104 hit rating. It was the spammed stam gems (and the resulting 33k unbuffed health) that allowed us to do the fight, not any extra hit I could have got.

[Player_Zero]

Go here: http://www.wowwiki.com/Gem

Look up stats you want, find prefix of gem, enter prefix into AH, buy gem, socket gem, buy me a present.

[mangosta71]

As I recall, hit isn't really essential for prot paladins. Your threat comes primarily from non-resistable holy damage, unless things have changed drastically since I stopped tanking on my alt (I stopped when 3.0 came out because I really didn't feel like committing time to completely regearing her for prot and I had a full ret suit ready). You benefit more from expertise (unless you're capped) than hit in any event. Your spellpower increases with both str and stam, so once you get to the defense cap there's no reason not to gem with pure stam.

[Ego Slayer]

I've only got like... 71 Hit, iirc. I'd like that a little higher. Missing on a pull is damn lousy. I'd like to gem it at least a *little* since none of the gear I'm specifically looking to pick up doesn't have any, I don't think. I'm really close to being soft capped on Expertise, atm. I've gem'd/enchanted Stam wherever I could already.

[freerangetroll]

Finding correct two-color gems is a... pain? But it works exactly the same as one-color gems!
They also give bigger benefits, overall. Two orange spell damage/crit gems give a greater boost than one spell damage and one crit. So monocolor ones are good only if you need only one stat. Which never happens.

Depends on the class and spec if you want the dual or single gems. Holy pallies for instance are only going to use (or should only use) single +16 int gems unless the socket bonus would give more int or you need to activate a meta.

I do have to say though. Having over 22k mana unbuffed is pretty nice.

[Khanderas]

As I recall, hit isn't really essential for prot paladins. Your threat comes primarily from non-resistable holy damage, unless things have changed drastically since I stopped tanking on my alt (I stopped when 3.0 came out because I really didn't feel like committing time to completely regearing her for prot and I had a full ret suit ready). You benefit more from expertise (unless you're capped) than hit in any event. Your spellpower increases with both str and stam, so once you get to the defense cap there's no reason not to gem with pure stam.
While holy cannot be resisted, you can still miss if you lack +hit.
I do not remember (at work and every place I can check this is blocked) if they go by "spellmiss" or "melee miss" on the prot skills. While all +hit works on both kinds, they have different amounts (the only one I care about until dualspec is 2h melee, that is about 8%).

Best way, is to get a healer (to keep the mana up) and try a session on the training dummies with recount or some addon like that and see what misses and how much (be sure to be in front of the dummy as she plays the tank). I used my DPS meter in pugs to let my comrades know after the fight how much more they need in the +hit department ("you missed 7% of all your attacks buddy, might need about that much more +hit").



Edit:
well that being said... tanks problebly do not need as much +hit as threat generation is generally very high. Critimmune always comes first, with the other survivability modifiers shortly after (stamina, dodge, block and parry). Threat is generally (as far as I can tell) not a problem in the long run. What can be a problem is if you miss on the first sunder/avengers shield/maul and some dps scores a crit with the tank at almost 0 threat.

[leperkhaun]

Well currently for prot pallies hit is a suboptimal threat stat.

Expertise is better until soft capped (6.5% pushes enemy dodge off the table, enemy parry is somethign like 15%). Str is actually a better threat stat than hit.

Now if this will stay this way or if its one of the nifty features for us im not sure.

The only part of a fight where hit matters for a prot pally is the inital pull where you dont want to have 3 attacks miss and your dps start getting hit, however between the several attack options we have this is a rare rare occurance and its nothing that cannot be solved by having dps wait 5 seconds.

However hit is much more imporant for other tanks (especially warriors) than for us.

[Player_Zero]

Str is actually a better threat stat than hit.

How's that?

[mangosta71]

The AP -> SP conversion. Pretty sure the coefficient is significantly higher than the one used for the stam -> SP formula that prot pallies get. But as has been stated, threat shouldn't be an issue if the tank is competent, unless the dps outgears him/her by a couple tiers.

[TheEmerged]

I believe the conventional wisdom on hit rating is that it's essential to every class until you hit the cap for your situation -- any more after this is a waste. The trick is determining the cap for your situation. For most melee weapon classes, I believe that's the point at which your special attacks will never miss (8-9%, depending on who you ask).

*Forgot to specify that I'm talking about single-wielding, not dual wielding.

[freerangetroll]

I believe the conventional wisdom on hit rating is that it's essential to every class until you hit the cap for your situation -- any more after this is a waste. The trick is determining the cap for your situation. For most melee weapon classes, I believe that's the point at which your special attacks will never miss (8-9%, depending on who you ask).


9% is the hard number. 8% is for most alliance guilds because of the draenei racial.

[Ego Slayer]

When I act like I know what I'm talking about it's 'cos I've been hanging around Maintankadin (http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/index.php), which is probably the single most useful place for info, and there's about a zillion guides and stuff. So, when I talk about wanting some Hit it's 'cos of reading this:


Hit Cap

Paladins are much more like Warriors now meaning we want Hit on our tanking gear. We have many more attacks (Judgement, Hammer of the Righteous (?), Shield of Righteousness, Avenger's Shield) that can miss, plus our white damage has gone up which also adds to our threat (though it does not receive the Righteous Fury modifier). A miss also means our Seal didn't proc. That's not a good.

Hit is what is checked to see if your Taunt resists. Since we have no backup spell should Righteous Defense resist, it's critical that it does not Resist/Miss. There is a Glyph which should eliminate most RD resists, and I suggest you take it.

At level 70, to be Hit Capped so you wouldn't miss, you needed 141 Hit Rating, further reduced to 95 by the talent Precision. Well Precision went bye bye. At level 80, you need 295 Hit Rating to be Hit Capped.

I don't intend to go crazy and think I need to cap it (Avoidance is more a priority right now since I was at 85% and am in the mid 70s% now and I don't know why!!) but I certainly don't want to be without a reasonable amount. :smallconfused:

[mangosta71]

I believe the conventional wisdom on hit rating is that it's essential to every class until you hit the cap for your situation -- any more after this is a waste. The trick is determining the cap for your situation. For most melee weapon classes, I believe that's the point at which your special attacks will never miss (8-9%, depending on who you ask).

*Forgot to specify that I'm talking about single-wielding, not dual wielding.

The number for special attacks is always 9%, regardless of one-handers, two-handers, or dual wielding. The only people that would ever want more than that are combat rogues. Partly because more than half of their dps comes from white damage, but mostly for the potency procs.

Also, Ego, there's an error in that quote. Or maybe it's just out of date. Paladins have another taunt now. Forget what it's called, but it's on an 8 second CD and has a 30 yard range. Was using it to pull flying mobs last night in Dragonblight. Also, if RD happens to fail, a hand of protection will get nearly anything to stop attacking whatever you cast it on.

[Ego Slayer]

Also, Ego, there's an error in that quote. Or maybe it's just out of date. Paladins have another taunt now. Forget what it's called, but it's on an 8 second CD and has a 30 yard range. Was using it to pull flying mobs last night in Dragonblight. Also, if RD happens to fail, a hand of protection will get nearly anything to stop attacking whatever you cast it on.
Figured someone'd point that out. Yeah, I know that part of it hasn't gotten an update yet. Hand of Reckoning has saved a lot of ass.

[Vaynor]

I've only got like... 71 Hit, iirc. I'd like that a little higher. Missing on a pull is damn lousy. I'd like to gem it at least a *little* since none of the gear I'm specifically looking to pick up doesn't have any, I don't think. I'm really close to being soft capped on Expertise, atm. I've gem'd/enchanted Stam wherever I could already.

Keep in mind that's for 25 man raid bosses, for heroics/10 mans your hit should be fine. Unless it starts becoming a problem for initial threat gain, don't bother.


Best way, is to get a healer (to keep the mana up) and try a session on the training dummies with recount or some addon like that and see what misses and how much (be sure to be in front of the dummy as she plays the tank). I used my DPS meter in pugs to let my comrades know after the fight how much more they need in the +hit department ("you missed 7% of all your attacks buddy, might need about that much more +hit"

The mana gain is only from effective heals; overheals do nothing.


I don't intend to go crazy and think I need to cap it (Avoidance is more a priority right now since I was at 85% and am in the mid 70s% now and I don't know why!!) but I certainly don't want to be without a reasonable amount. :smallconfused:

Block ≠ avoidance on pretty much any mob that hits harder than a rabbit. It's mitigation.

[Bouregard]

As I recall, hit isn't really essential for prot paladins. Your threat comes primarily from non-resistable holy damage, unless things have changed drastically since I stopped tanking on my alt (I stopped when 3.0 came out because I really didn't feel like committing time to completely regearing her for prot and I had a full ret suit ready). You benefit more from expertise (unless you're capped) than hit in any event. Your spellpower increases with both str and stam, so once you get to the defense cap there's no reason not to gem with pure stam.

You're wrong. Resist is not always resist.

There are two ways to resist something:
Throught leveldifference, this resistchance is negatable through hitrating Every Attack/Spell/Ranged suffers from this if its not always a crit.

Resistbased resists (sounds stupid):
if a boss has for example 100 frostresistance he will sometimes fully resist something. But holyspells are without resistance.

So Hit is pretty usefull for a protpaladin, but migation/evasion comes first





Expertise however is only rarely usable. Our autoattacks are pretty much 0 threat the big chunk of aggro comes from all those reflectives, the judgement&shieldthrow and consecration. Those are either classified as rangeattacks that can only miss or dodge or outright spells. So expertise is something not completly worthless but you are better of with hit.

[mangosta71]

You're wrong. Resist is not always resist.

There are two ways to resist something:
Throught leveldifference, this resistchance is negatable through hitrating Every Attack/Spell/Ranged suffers from this if its not always a crit.

Resistbased resists (sounds stupid):
if a boss has for example 100 frostresistance he will sometimes fully resist something. But holyspells are without resistance.

So Hit is pretty usefull for a protpaladin, but migation/evasion comes first





Expertise however is only rarely usable. Our autoattacks are pretty much 0 threat the big chunk of aggro comes from all those reflectives, the judgement&shieldthrow and consecration. Those are either classified as rangeattacks that can only miss or dodge or outright spells. So expertise is something not completly worthless but you are better of with hit.

Actually, seals are not resistable, holy shield is not resistable, consecrate (aside from the first tick) is not resistable, judgement is not resistable. All of those hit me through cloak of shadows for full damage, at any rate. Hit for a prot pally affects auto attacks and avenger's shield. Expertise knocks both dodge and parry off the table, making it twice as effective as hit for auto attacks.

@Vaynor: Block value got buffed like crazy. It's not uncommon for our MTs to completely block attacks in 25 man raids, including some from bosses. But then, Loatheb hits about as hard as a rabbit...

[Ego Slayer]

Block ≠ avoidance on pretty much any mob that hits harder than a rabbit. It's mitigation.
Not exactly sure what you're saying here. :smallconfused: I'm talking about the 102.4% block cap.

Actually, I'm getting my words mixed up, aren't I? :smallsigh: Sorry...
Probably 'cos I had the 'wrong' macro for calcing it the second time around so the %s got applied to the block cap 'cos that what I wanted to get. It's the first macro's fault for not working anymore.

'cos I found another and it sits me at my rightful place of 89%. X.o

I should get more sleep or something.

[TheEmerged]

An expected disappointment -- Blizzard has finally caved on the Brew of the Year requirement. It wouldn't be such a blatant example of caving if they hadn't given some of the smarmy responses on this issue they have.

Don't get me wrong: as I've said before, I'll take Blizzard's caving over the adherance to The Vision(tm) like some other MMOGs. And keep in mind I'm not bothering with Long Strange Trip except for the holidays that interest me.

Still... they're getting dangerously close to taking the 'achieve' out of achievement. I can understand dropping some of the "Hello RNG!" requirements like Be Mine! and A Mask For All Occassions. But BotY was not dependent on the RNG, it just required persistence and patience.

As for the "but what about DK's?" argument, I think Blizzard themselves said it best -- it's no different for a DK than for a player that just started (and there are more of these than some people suspect; I work with 2 people that have started since WotLK hit).

[Vaynor]

Not exactly sure what you're saying here. :smallconfused: I'm talking about the 102.4% block cap.

Actually, I'm getting my words mixed up, aren't I? :smallsigh: Sorry...
Probably 'cos I had the 'wrong' macro for calcing it the second time around so the %s got applied to the block cap 'cos that what I wanted to get. It's the first macro's fault for not working anymore.

'cos I found another and it sits me at my rightful place of 89%. X.o

I should get more sleep or something.

You're thinking about when in BC, you needed 102.4% "avoidance" to be uncrushable, however crushing blows are no longer being used (at least for situations you'd come across). My point being, block does not give you a chance to avoid damage, it gives you a chance to mitigate it, depending on block value. Your block value can actually be high enough to completely mitigate attacks but regardless, it is not an avoidance stat. Not really important, just saying it's not applicable when saying how much avoidance you have as it is extremely situational.

[Zherog]

An expected disappointment -- Blizzard has finally caved on the Brew of the Year requirement. It wouldn't be such a blatant example of caving if they hadn't given some of the smarmy responses on this issue they have. >>snip<<

Help an old man out.

A) What does one have to do for the Brew of the Year achievement?
B) What's "RNG"?

[Player_Zero]

Help an old man out.

A) What does one have to do for the Brew of the Year achievement?
B) What's "RNG"?

http://www.wowhead.com/?achievement=1183

RNG - Random Number Generator.

[TheEmerged]

Help an old man out.

A) What does one have to do for the Brew of the Year achievement?
B) What's "RNG"?

B> "Random Number Generator/Generation"

A> Earn a bunch of brewfest rewards, pay attention to your mail, and wait a year (http://www.wowhead.com/?achievement=1183). Most of the whin... er, complaints have been based on 1> the part that had to be done during Brewfest, meaning DK's and new characters couldn't even start until next year and 2> the fact that it took a year to get it.

They're changing the requirement to entering Brew Of The Year, instead of drinking all 12 brews.

[Zherog]

B> "Random Number Generator/Generation"

A> Earn a bunch of brewfest rewards, pay attention to your mail, and wait a year (http://www.wowhead.com/?achievement=1183). Most of the whin... er, complaints have been based on 1> the part that had to be done during Brewfest, meaning DK's and new characters couldn't even start until next year and 2> the fact that it took a year to get it.

They're changing the requirement to entering Brew Of The Year, instead of drinking all 12 brews.

Thank you for explaining, rather than just posting a link, since I do most of my posting from work and all the WoW related sites are blocked.

[TheEmerged]

Thank you for explaining, rather than just posting a link, since I do most of my posting from work and all the WoW related sites are blocked.

<== is behind a work filter himself, and one smart enough to block proxy sites to boot.

[Zherog]

Mine does as well.... le sigh

[Player_Zero]

Thank you for explaining, rather than just posting a link, since I do most of my posting from work and all the WoW related sites are blocked.

Yeah, and I hate you an' all.

[Zherog]

Exactly .

[Leon]

A good couple of hours farming Saronite just done.

Best part was nabbing 5 nodes (one was a Titanium Node) before a 77 Lock could get them, he tried to get me a few times but each time was a lil to slow or had gotten ensnared in combat with a mob.
and once im mounted your not going to catch a Pally with crusader aura on if you have a slow mount (flying or otherwise)
Gave up once the 80s started appearing as the server was warming up, being chain ganked is not fun

Im working hard on getting the Unbreakable Healing Amplifiers, just need to get my Skill upto 440 and get the mats, have 5 of the 8 Titanium now and the leather will be easy, the gems and Orb are going to be the tricky parts

Have healed Nexus and UK, having a 80 tank helped greatly but its all a learning experience, both instances have given me some nice blues

Wearing the mix of gear that i solo in
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Archimonde&n=Kasife

[Adumbration]

In two weeks, I'm planning on buying WoW. What would be a good starting character? I've played the free 10-day trial of WoW once with a Troll Hunter, got him up to 18-19 - I also experimented on a variety of other characters, but that was the only one I leveled above 10.

What I haven't tried at all is Warrior, Paladin and Rogue, and possibly some other classes, but it's those three that I'm most interested of. Starting as a Human, and mostly solo, no RL friends who play WoW.

[Kaiser Omnik]

The rogue class is really easy to learn and levels quickly. It's a great class for solo questing, once you get sprint and vanish, that is. Being able to complete quests without even having to fight thanks to stealth is awesome.

[AgentPaper]

I think paladin is the best bet for a first character, at least. For one, it's a great solo class, since it can wear heavy armor and heal itself. And it's a good fit for almost everyone, since you can fill any role you want with the right gear and spec. No matter whether you decide you want to tank, or DPS, or heal, you'll be a good fit. Of course, you can't do all of them at once, and switching from one to the other is hard, especially at high levels where getting the right gear is half the fight. Still, far easier than raising up a whole other character.

Druids also fit in that role, now that I think about it. And also nice in that they can choose between being a ranged caster DPS and a melee DPS.

[TheEmerged]

In two weeks, I'm planning on buying WoW. What would be a good starting character? I've played the free 10-day trial of WoW once with a Troll Hunter, got him up to 18-19 - I also experimented on a variety of other characters, but that was the only one I leveled above 10.

What I haven't tried at all is Warrior, Paladin and Rogue, and possibly some other classes, but it's those three that I'm most interested of. Starting as a Human, and mostly solo, no RL friends who play WoW.

Really, they all have their charms and weaknesses as starter classes except DK's, which can't be a starter class :smallredface: The following is my opinion, based on my experience -- no more, no less.

Hunters are an easy class to get into, but currently one of the hardest to play well. Warriors are moderately simple to get into, but also turn frustrating quickly. Rogues are arguably overpowered at the low levels (I could do things with my rogue in the teens I wouldn't have even dreamed attempting on my mage at the same levels) and won't really show you what the class is like at higher levels.

If your first class is a mage (like mine), you *will* develop some bad habits you'll have to unlearn with other classes. They are probably the simplest class to learn (even easier than hunters, in my opinion). They are also one of the quickest to die.

Paladins aren't as complicated to start out as they used to be, but still experience some of the same "WHY! ARE THE MOBS! NOT DYING!" frustrations they've always had until later levels. On the other hand they are, hands down, the most durable class.

Druids, despite the concerns you may be hearing about what's happening at the raid level right now, are one of the best classes in the game IMO. They are also the last class I'd recommend as your first character unless you're pretty serious about keeping at it. The old joke is that druids are 10 levels of suck, followed by 10 levels of slow, followed by anywhere from 40 to 50 levels of OMGIPWNUALL! :smallbiggrin: Learning the different forms is not as difficult as it may sound, since when you get them is spaced out enough that you have time.

Shaman make an interesting choice. They are the most active AND the most reactive class in the game. If you're playing this as a first class, start in Enhancement (Elemental doesn't really have viable gear until Outland/60th level). You have to make a lot of on-the-spot decisions as a shaman, but that also makes them more fun in combat than say a mage ("Press 5. Repeat until mob dies or certain cirmstances occur") or rogue ("Press 5 until you have 4-5 combo points on the mob, then press 6. Repeat until mob dies or certain circumstances occur.")

Priest can be a unique source of frustation, or a very fun class. Unless you're going to be grouping almost constantly while leveling, start in Shadow. You will have the benefit at higher levels of being able to go into almost any instance you want if healign specialized.

[Philistine]

The thing about Druids is that each new form dramatically increases their power. So the levels just before a new form becomes available can be pretty rough. (And by rough, I mean "I had trouble fighting same-level mobs, even one-on-one, at 18-19.") Catform at 20 helps a lot; Prowl lets you bypass a fair number of fights in a Rogue-like manner. And Dire Bear at 40 is a huge boost to survivability, from then on the Druid becomes an Incredible Soloing Machine.

Warlock is interesting, too, though it's maybe not the ideal choice for a starter class. Yes, you get a helpful pet and a lot of cool abilities, some of which are situationally very powerful; but it's precisely that bounty of choices (and their highly situational nature) that also makes it one of the more complicated classes to play. The playstyle is a little weird, too, and a lot of people who try it just don't enjoy it (those who do enjoy it tend to like it a lot). Played well, though, the Warlock can become a Soloing Machine just a little less Incredible than the Druid or Paladin.

[The Linker]

No one's mentioned how Druids can heal themselves, too. :smalltongue: Going Feral, it's like being able to switch between a Warrior and a Rogue whenever you want, and then you add in the ability to heal and I don't think any class can come close to beating it in terms of leveling, after 20. :smallbiggrin:

[Raistlin1040]

So, I got Lich King for Christmas, installed it a few days after, and played it until about mid-January. School and other stuff got in the way, so I haven't played since. Just tried to load it up, and I had to download a bunch of patchy stuff and such, but it's still not loading. Like, I open the game, it gives me the Patch Notes and starts downloading. It gets to 10%, asks me for my Admin Password. I give it, and then it shoots up to 70% in a second or two. Then it stays still for a few seconds, and then closes. So now I can't play. Damn.

[TheEmerged]

No one's mentioned how Druids can heal themselves, too. :smalltongue: Going Feral, it's like being able to switch between a Warrior and a Rogue whenever you want, and then you add in the ability to heal and I don't think any class can come close to beating it in terms of leveling, after 20. :smallbiggrin:

I tried to stick to information that wasn't in the class description :smallcool: Of course my druid is also an herbalist and I have my "get HP when you kill something" trinket equipped most of the time so the ability to heal myself between pauses isn't quite so earth-shaking for me.

[Philistine]

No one's mentioned how Druids can heal themselves, too. :smalltongue: Going Feral, it's like being able to switch between a Warrior and a Rogue whenever you want, and then you add in the ability to heal and I don't think any class can come close to beating it in terms of leveling, after 20. :smallbiggrin:

That's not even the best part of being a Feral. The best part is that while you're in Feral forms, you don't use mana to kill. So it regenerates. So when you do need to pop up and heal yourself, chances are by that time you're looking at a full mana bar again. Then you go right back to killing things while your mana fills up again. Zero-downtime grinding, bay bee. This is one of the reasons why Feral is so highly recommended for levelling (the other being the lack of good caster gear prior to hitting Outlands).

Affliction Warlocks can get pretty close to zero downtime, too. And Shadow Priests have some nifty mana return efffects, so they might be in the mix as well (I never managed to level a Priest past 30 though, so I can't speak from experience on this one). Of course, neither of them can match the stealthiness of Cat form or the tankiness of Bear form. :smallcool:

[The Linker]

That's not even the best part of being a Feral. The best part is that while you're in Feral forms, you don't use mana to kill. So it regenerates. So when you do need to pop up and heal yourself, chances are by that time you're looking at a full mana bar again. Then you go right back to killing things while your mana fills up again. Zero-downtime grinding, bay bee. This is one of the reasons why Feral is so highly recommended for levelling (the other being the lack of good caster gear prior to hitting Outlands).

True dat. Was that in the class description, TheEmerged?! Huh!? :smallbiggrin: :smalltongue:

Another thing that makes it easy is Barkskin. With the recent change of making it castable in feral forms, it's easier than ever to get a heal off in the middle of 4-5 enemies.

[Philistine]

Another thing that makes it easy is Barkskin. With the recent change of making it castable in feral forms, it's easier than ever to get a heal off in the middle of 4-5 enemies.

Is the Barkskin change really that big a deal? I mean, you have to pop up anyway to cast your heals - and the best heals you've got are instants, so pushback wouldn't be a factor regardless. Sure it's a nice emergency button, but really it doesn't seem like as big a help as moving Nature's Grasp from a talent to baseline. Though granted Nature's Grasp is more helpful for "one big enemy" situations. The change to make potions usable in forms was very helpful (and long-awaited), too.

[Leon]

Had a Lvl 80 Mage chase my Pally on a extended arc of the basin, i guess he wasn't too happy to lose a Titanium Node to a lvl 71
He would have gotten me i'd say if he'd stopped using ice lance and actually hit me with hard (tho i dint give him the chance to get a shatter combo off)

10 Skill points (also 2 gems and 1 orb) stand between Pally and Epic Goggles

Box of Bombs!! I have soo many Saronite Bombs its crazy, been selling them to the bread lady for extra gold

[Malek]

Question for you knowledgable people out there - I bought WoW a week or so, played it some, went on today and bought both expansions (was going to do it later, but when I got to level 30 after less than 3 days of actual gametime I decided to do it early). I got the account-side upgrade done, now the thing I'm not sure about is the client-side update. Do I need to install both BC and WotLK from the discs, or *just* the WotLK - and if it's the former do I need to patch stuff (again) between installations, or only after both got installed.

[Zherog]

I had to reinstall after Lich King came out. You'll need to install BC, then patch the ever-living hell out of it, then install Lich King, then do more patching. Yeah, it sucks about as bad as it sounds.

[The Linker]

Is the Barkskin change really that big a deal? I mean, you have to pop up anyway to cast your heals - and the best heals you've got are instants, so pushback wouldn't be a factor regardless. Sure it's a nice emergency button, but really it doesn't seem like as big a help as moving Nature's Grasp from a talent to baseline. Though granted Nature's Grasp is more helpful for "one big enemy" situations. The change to make potions usable in forms was very helpful (and long-awaited), too.

Well, I said it's easiER than ever. :smalltongue: It is true that it's not a huge difference. But about our best heals being instants -- I'm only 61, so I think my only instant is rejeuvanation... :smalltongue:

Very yes to potions being usable in feral forms. Also other abilities like the herbalism HoT. That's saved my butt a few times. :smallbiggrin:

[Indeed.]

10 Skill points (also 2 gems and 1 orb) stand between Pally and Epic Goggles

Not worth it. During BC, goggles were best in slot until T5 helmet (which loads of people were guaranteed to not get), but now they're even worse than the equivalent-ilevel blacksmith helmet, and that's for everyone.

Speaking as a disenfranchised engineer: D:<

[Leon]

Not worth it. During BC, goggles were best in slot until T5 helmet (which loads of people were guaranteed to not get), but now they're even worse than the equivalent-ilevel blacksmith helmet, and that's for everyone.

Speaking as a disenfranchised engineer: D:<

Speaking as a Engineer who loves the trade - I dont care, i didnt get a chance to make the BC ones (they are on my skill list but were out dated by that time)

They are rank 7 on the Wowhead scale
Of the helms above it 3 are from Naxx (2 are heroic naxx), 2 are Valorous helms (One is the Ret hat... odd) and one is a Blue Quest reward that under closer inspection doesn't have the same capability that i see in the goggles (its got +8 Int and 53 haste over a yellow and a Meta Slot plus the fact that i can wear it at 72 vs 78)

I have the Yellow gem that's going to go in it (uncut currently but thats all sorted otherwise)

[Khanderas]

An expected disappointment -- Blizzard has finally caved on the Brew of the Year requirement. It wouldn't be such a blatant example of caving if they hadn't given some of the smarmy responses on this issue they have.

Don't get me wrong: as I've said before, I'll take Blizzard's caving over the adherance to The Vision(tm) like some other MMOGs. And keep in mind I'm not bothering with Long Strange Trip except for the holidays that interest me.

Still... they're getting dangerously close to taking the 'achieve' out of achievement. I can understand dropping some of the "Hello RNG!" requirements like Be Mine! and A Mask For All Occassions. But BotY was not dependent on the RNG, it just required persistence and patience.

As for the "but what about DK's?" argument, I think Blizzard themselves said it best -- it's no different for a DK than for a player that just started (and there are more of these than some people suspect; I work with 2 people that have started since WotLK hit).
Brew of the year is off the required achivment ?
Good.
I was not playing during the brewfest, and that locked me out of membership of the Brew of the year. And THAT would lock me out of the achivment for 1 extra year. Only the hope that it would be removed from the year achivment kept me going and I am well relieved that it finally happened.

Missing any other achivment during the brewfest would add little to the time to get the final achivment, missing the brew of the month means an arbitrary extra year.

[mangosta71]

So, they're taking away the black and plagued protodrakes because "the achievements will be trivial when players have the gear we intended them to have for them and we don't want that many 310 speed mounts around" and then turn around and give everyone the violet drake (which is also a 310). Makes perfect sense to me.

[TheEmerged]

Is the Barkskin change really that big a deal? I mean, you have to pop up anyway to cast your heals - and the best heals you've got are instants, so pushback wouldn't be a factor regardless. Sure it's a nice emergency button, but really it doesn't seem like as big a help as moving Nature's Grasp from a talent to baseline. Though granted Nature's Grasp is more helpful for "one big enemy" situations. The change to make potions usable in forms was very helpful (and long-awaited), too.

I can't answer for the healing side, but for the tanking side it's pretty huge :smallbiggrin:


So, they're taking away the black and plagued protodrakes because "the achievements will be trivial when players have the gear we intended them to have for them and we don't want that many 310 speed mounts around" and then turn around and give everyone the violet drake (which is also a 310). Makes perfect sense to me.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Blizzard was still being coy about whether or not the protodrake from "Long Strange Trip" was going to be 310 speed.

[The Linker]

Wait, a 310 mount being the reward for "Long Strange Trip" is 'giving it to everyone?' I'd say they deserve it. :smalleek: That takes quite a bit of commitment -- running all those instances, and you gotta hit (almost) every town for at least two of the events... :smalltongue:

[Indeed.]

Speaking as a Engineer who loves the trade - I dont care, i didnt get a chance to make the BC ones (they are on my skill list but were out dated by that time)
This I can see, but...


They are rank 7 on the Wowhead scale
Of the helms above it 3 are from Naxx (2 are heroic naxx), 2 are Valorous helms (One is the Ret hat... odd) and one is a Blue Quest reward that under closer inspection doesn't have the same capability that i see in the goggles (its got +8 Int and 53 haste over a yellow and a Meta Slot plus the fact that i can wear it at 72 vs 78)
WoWhead shouldn't be taken as absolute gospel. Eng helm has far too much crit compared to the usefulness of strength-and any T7, Heroic or Valorous, would be better if it gives a set bonus. 4set is invaluable.


I have the Yellow gem that's going to go in it (uncut currently but thats all sorted otherwise)
Another recommendation: No.

Outside of 2 purple str/stam gems to make CSD work, the best option is to put bold scarlet rubies in every slot.

[Leon]

Indeed - we're not quite on the same page here, im Speaking of a Level 71 Holy Pally

[Indeed.]

Indeed - we're not quite on the same page here, im Speaking of a Level 71 Holy Pally

Leveling Holy?

I pray for your soul.

[The Linker]

I'm leveling my first Priest as Holy, and she's 38 now. I don't do instances very often, either. And yet it's still very, very easy. :smalltongue: Blizz has done a good job making many Holy/Resto/what-have-you talents have an effect beneficial for healing and an effect beneficial for leveling (sometimes they're the SAME effect, as with the one that increases your critical effect chance with holy spells by 5%).

Edit: I DO have three points in Shadow for Spirit Tap, though.

[Leon]

Holy's not what it once was, its now a decent leveling spec - no its not the melee power house that Ret is but it gets me a Lot more instances
Once the changes to Holy Wrath and Exorcism come along i'll have even more offensive spell capability

Being able to Endure attacks and just walk away healing has been very useful in my Mining trips to the basin - no deaths to Mobs

[Philistine]

I can't answer for the healing side, but for the tanking side it's pretty huge :smallbiggrin:

For tanking, I absolutely agree - it's a Wonder of Effin' Science. I was specifically referring to the use of Barkskin to jump up and throw yourself a couple of heals while soloing; for that purpose, I don't see how it matters whether you pop it before or after you shift out.

Though to be honest, I never did use Barkskin much when I was levelling. My Druid was the third character I took to max level, and by the time I started playing her seriously I'd gotten a bit smarter about picking my fights. As a result there were few encounters I couldn't simply ride out, waiting to heal up until afterward. (Of course, there would have been even fewer if I'd been able to cast Barkskin in forms... :smallamused:) So it could well be that I'm missing something, because I only really used Barkskin when doing instances as a healer.

[Leon]

All that Stands between me and my Goggles now is 6 bars of experience

The goggles have landed!
Cant activate the Meta as its the only socked item i have currently but its everything else ive been waiting for
made better by the run in the Nexus that leveled me got me new Braces, Gloves and Shoulders (DPS shoulders...) i would have gotten a really nice ring off the last boss but the lvl 66 Tree that we had in the party (he formed the group) won it... grr

[mangosta71]

Wait, a 310 mount being the reward for "Long Strange Trip" is 'giving it to everyone?' I'd say they deserve it. :smalleek: That takes quite a bit of commitment -- running all those instances, and you gotta hit (almost) every town for at least two of the events... :smalltongue:

True, but is there anything actually difficult about doing them? This is effectively saying that doing all of the holiday achievements is more difficult than doing all of the raid achievements. Getting 25 people through all of Naxx without a single death (6 minute Maly requires the same perfection. So does Sarth +3) is easier than taking a couple hours to run all over the world? I looked through the requirements, and the only things I saw that weren't easily soloable were the 3 or 4 elders in Northrend dungeons that actually required boss kills to get to.

[The Linker]

It's true that it's not difficult, per se, but WoW has always had those kind of options, like how you can go do a big rep grind (or, to a lesser extent, lots of PvP) -- not hard, but quite long -- and get some epics, rather than go raiding and get epics quicker. With the achievement, everyone has to wait a whole year to even have a chance to have completed it, and god help them if they missed even ONE. :smalleek: Meanwhile, I'm sure, say, Nihilanth already done all the raid achievements... :smalltongue:

[Khanderas]

Difficult ? Perhaps not.
Dedicated ? Absolutly. Basically keep subscription and activity up for a whole year and a fair focus on the days the respective event is up. (Example being for sinister squashling, I did not finish it until the night before it ended, and I ran Headless Horseman 5-15 times a day. Add in finding groups etc, that is more hours then I wish to think about).

[Indeed.]

Agreed. Hell, even the shortness of this year's Valentines combined with the fickle RNG probably knocked a whole load of people out of the running this time around.

Instead of "lol holidays", I prefer to think of it like the old GM/HWL grind. Not that hard, but soul-crushingly long and those who manage to complete it deserve at least some respect for doing so.

However, that said, I emphatically boycott holiday achievements. No idea what statement I'm making with it, but it is something!

[TheEmerged]

Agreed. Hell, even the shortness of this year's Valentines combined with the fickle RNG probably knocked a whole load of people out of the running this time around.

Instead of "lol holidays", I prefer to think of it like the old GM/HWL grind. Not that hard, but soul-crushingly long and those who manage to complete it deserve at least some respect for doing so.

However, that said, I emphatically boycott holiday achievements. No idea what statement I'm making with it, but it is something!

I'm not trying for "Long Strange Trip" myself. I've been doing the holidays with the attitude that I'm pursuing rewards I want (like getting a full set of the Lovely dresses -- success!) and if there's an achievement that interests me or looks easy enough to score, I'll grab it. For example, I scored "Pity The Fool" not because I pursued it, but because I happened to get enough Fools and realized I could knock off a cooking achievement at the same time (and Chef was one of the titles I was *very* interest in).

A lot of people seem to view the achievement system as a requirement instead of bragging rights, IMO. Speaking from the "about as casual as you can be and get your money's worth" school, it quickly becomes obvious that some of them just aren't worth pursuing.

[The Linker]

I've ended up getting, I think, all of the holiday achievements that consist of town-hopping, at least in Outland and the old world. I first started collecting the halloween candies in Outland becuase I have an epic mount, and love flying. :smallbiggrin: Then I decided to keep going and got all the ones in the Old World. I like it -- it's nice to travel around the world and appreciate how big it is.

I was dragged into elder-seeking by my Ravenholdt guild, and we had a blast zooming around everywhere. Until I got left way behind and couldn't catch up. :smalltongue: I actually ended up getting pretty much all the easy Lunar Festival achievements, plus Omen! Lemmee tell ya, as a 69 (?) mage, that was annoying. :smalltongue: Elune's Candle helped, but once that ran out I was relegated to throwing off frostbolts that either missed or did ~100 damage. :smallyuk:

No 'Long Strange Trip' achievement for me, no siree. Even early on, the commitment I knew I'd need overwhelmed me. :smalltongue:

[Trizap]

ey, I used to play this when Burning Crusade came out and I want to play it again, how has it changed?

[Indeed.]

ey, I used to play this when Burning Crusade came out and I want to play it again, how has it changed?

As alien as this may sound to anyone who went from vanilla to TBC but quit before LK: It's easier.

The starting content isn't overtuned only to be nerfed later, Naxx at start is where Kara was around 2.2-2.3. Malygos is where Gruul/Mag were. Classes are a little wonky PvP wise, Warriors and Druids have fallen from glory and the new FotM are DK and Holy paladin. The biggest change I'm seeing is in raid comps. Most classes are around the same level of DPS and there aren't really any "must have" buffs ala Windfury and Spriest mana battery. The important buffs are given to 3-4 classes and the weaker but still nice to have ones are only around 2. All raid buffs of the same type stack, so no Bshout+BoM, and all mana batteries refresh the same buff.

Specifics on class would help a bit. :x

[Trizap]

As alien as this may sound to anyone who went from vanilla to TBC but quit before LK: It's easier.

The starting content isn't overtuned only to be nerfed later, Naxx at start is where Kara was around 2.2-2.3. Malygos is where Gruul/Mag were. Classes are a little wonky PvP wise, Warriors and Druids have fallen from glory and the new FotM are DK and Holy paladin. The biggest change I'm seeing is in raid comps. Most classes are around the same level of DPS and there aren't really any "must have" buffs ala Windfury and Spriest mana battery. The important buffs are given to 3-4 classes and the weaker but still nice to have ones are only around 2. All raid buffs of the same type stack, so no Bshout+BoM, and all mana batteries refresh the same buff.

Specifics on class would help a bit. :x

I played a warlock.

[The Linker]

You should read up on Patch 3.0. (http://www.wowwiki.com/3.0) It's not going be even close to everything that's changed, but it WILL show you the biggest changes. A lot of stuff that affects core gameplay in there.

Edit: 2.3 (http://www.wowwiki.com/Patch_2.3.0) was another world-changing one. It made most previously group quests in the old world soloable, often by making the enemy (or enemies) a normal mob rather than elite. It also reduced XP needed to get from levels 20 to 60 by 30%, and quest XP was increased by 30% from 30 to 60. In short, it's a lot easier to get to Outland.

Actually, since then, Outland's gotten the same treatment. Much easier to get to NORTHREND now. :smallbiggrin:

[Leon]

Decided that the only way i was going to play my DK much was to not step on the toes of my Warrior.
As much as the Blood/Frost Spec was fun Ive Gone Dual-wield Spec (18/8/36 atm, will be 18/8/45 once im done)

Did entertain the possibility of going tank with the DK but that lasted all of 30mins and can wait till later whence Ive had time to gather gear and such

[TheEmerged]

File Under: Blizzard changing their minds.

So in addition to hunter ammo still being consumable (just consumed from bigger stacks) and Disc Priests probably not getting their group shield spell, it now looks like they're not going to combine Healing & Mana totems anymore (and are going to make it so the pally Blessing of Wisdom and Mana totem no longer stack).

[Zherog]

*weeps*

I was hoping to get a bag slot back on my hunter. Having only four bags is a bummer...

[Vaynor]

File Under: Blizzard changing their minds.

So in addition to hunter ammo still being consumable (just consumed from bigger stacks) and Disc Priests probably not getting their group shield spell, it now looks like they're not going to combine Healing & Mana totems anymore (and are going to make it so the pally Blessing of Wisdom and Mana totem no longer stack).

Actually, they never said they'd change the hunter ammo in 3.1. What you're saying is exactly what they said they'd do; there was a blue post saying that they'd be removing hunter ammo sometime after 3.1.

[Ego Slayer]

Whoohoo. Red drake flier from Wyrmrest is mine!!
Finally, I've got a mount infinitely cooler than those 200g gryphons.
Bastard takes up a third of the screen now.

That is all. :smallcool:

[mangosta71]

Yeah, I like the red drake. My mount macro summons it, my bronze (matches my t7.5 beautifully) and my onyx netherwing drakes at random. Though after tonight, all I'll need is a 6 minute Maly kill and Immortal to get a black proto, and if I manage that I won't use anything else again.

[Leon]

Ka-Ding

Mage is 80


i have my Hat of Wintry Doom!

been waiting to get a decent headpiece for a long while now - helms for the most part in Wrath have been horrid.

[mangosta71]

QFT. I didn't replace my Cursed Vision until I got tier 7.

In other news, both maces I was wanting for 3.1 dropped in Naxx this week. Speeds aren't exactly ideal, but they're the only ilevel 213 one-handed melee dps maces in the game right now. I'll miss mutilate, but 20% passive haste is too much to ignore.

[Adumbration]

By the way, does WoW require the cd to run? My cd-player isn't in all that good a shape due to long periods of no usage, but I can get it to install stuff - after a few tries just fine.

[Jimorian]

By the way, does WoW require the cd to run?

No, once you install and have your key entered, you no longer need the CD in the drive. In fact, if you have problems installing from the CD, you can download the program instead and still use the key that came with the disc.

[Indeed.]

QFT. I didn't replace my Cursed Vision until I got tier 7.

I wish I had something on the level of Cursed Vision to stick with me, but alas. Council was stubborn until the end.

Sad thing that ToTD got replaced before 80, though.

[TheEmerged]

RE: Real World. Not been a pleasant week (dental). Today's the first day I've felt like playing since Tuesday.

RE: Ammo change. Yes, I know it wasn't "promised" for 3.1. The point is that the current implementation makes it look like it might not go through. Hence the "Blizzard changing their mind" schtick.

Sorta-rant spoilered for those in a good mood :smallbiggrin:
Scare quoted "promised" because frankly Blizzard's word and a $1.25 will get you a drink out of the machine -- and we still get $1 drinks where I work. I'm serious when I say I prefer this to previous MMOG producers' adherence to The Vision(tm), but let's not twitter around either. With Blizzard, you believe it when it's installed and running on your machine -- and accept the fact they could take it away anytime they want.

RE: Noblegarden. Speaking of 'changing their minds/lore whenever it suits them', we're being told the enhanced Noblegarden holiday is probably going to get moved this year because it probably won't be ready in time.

[B-Man]

Well, I bought Wrath last week and dinged 72 today. I'm not really enjoying that I have to level any more. I'm also plagued with bad computers right now as my desktop is at my sister's place, 1,800 km away and my laptop died yesterday trying to open WoW. I'm going to have to stop playing for at least 3 weeks 'cause I want to be able to play on my über desktop and not my mom's dying desktop (seems I can only get my hands on computers on their death-throes at my parents' place :smallsigh:).

Bleh... may as well stop the auto-pay in April for now 'cause of my current situation.

[Ego Slayer]

RE: Noblegarden. Speaking of 'changing their minds/lore whenever it suits them', we're being told the enhanced Noblegarden holiday is probably going to get moved this year because it probably won't be ready in time.
Then I'm really gonna miss it again, aren't I? :smalltongue: I, of course, missed it last year... or more like didn't even know it existed. Someone here is gonna have to give me a heads up. D:

[Adumbration]

After you've started playing, is it possible to halt the clock for a week or two? I mean, if I had a say, 60-day account, and in the middle of it I would have to go abroad for a week, would it be possible to halt the counter for those 7 days?

[freerangetroll]

No, you can't suspend payment of service due to not being able to play.

[Leon]

And just like that...
In the middle of a HoS run my account expired, i knew it was coming up but not so soon

[TheEmerged]

Well, I hit exalted with Frenzyheart and the Sons of Hodir. I'm planning to make the switch to Oracle this weekend, after my last jar ferments. I now have the Glacial Bag pattern, even though I'm still 10 tailoring points short of learning it. I've moved my hearth to Dragonblight and started stocking up on Eternal Shadow/Life/Fire.

Ironically, what I'm having the biggest trouble keeping stocked on right now is still Infinite Dust. Day was I wouldn't have complained when greens disenchanted into shards or essences, but I'm getting dangerously close to that anymore. And for the record, I'm not trying to level enchanting right now.

The more Wintergrasp I play, the more clear two points become. First, I like it. Second, it's horribly, HORRIBLY imbalanced toward the offense. That bit about taking down the southern towers is a trivia question right now. They're too far away given the speed of the vehicles (and if there's a non-vehicular way to hurt them, I haven't found it). This morning I halfway thought the horde was giving us time to score some dailies before they took the fight seriously.

[Khanderas]

The more Wintergrasp I play, the more clear two points become. First, I like it. Second, it's horribly, HORRIBLY imbalanced toward the offense. That bit about taking down the southern towers is a trivia question right now. They're too far away given the speed of the vehicles (and if there's a non-vehicular way to hurt them, I haven't found it). This morning I halfway thought the horde was giving us time to score some dailies before they took the fight seriously.
Perhaps, but I see that as a good thing. And it isnt that horribly unbalanced. Not since they fixed that bug that let vehicles walk though a certain wall.
The wintergrasp buff is perhaps not essential, but quite the boon for the faction that holds it. Only fair taking it back would be easier then keeping it.
The other dailys, such as the ones to kill players in the X field for Y (embers for demolishers, plants for salves) can be done even when WG isnt having a fight.
As for taking WG seriously. WG is serious buissness :)

[AgentPaper]

I got to level 80 this Sunday! Yay me! I was more surprised than anything. I was level 75 just this friday, then by the end of the day was 77. Then saturday and I get to 79. Early on sunday I reach 80, and now I'm workin on gearing up. Currently in storm peaks when not raiding, and it's lots of fun. Looking forward to icecrown, which will finish up my questing in northrend. After which I'll probably explore the world and work more seriously on my orc shaman, and/or my dwarf pally.

Anyways, since my guild is full of tanks so far, especially DK ones, I'm focusing on DPS, especially blood. Any tips? I've heard rune weapon, the capstone of blood, isn't really worthwhile, and I think I agree. I'd rather just keep pumping out more death coils. It might boost my damage a wee bit, but I think I'm getting far more mileage out of my ghoul. Which is awesome, btw.

Also, I never use diseases anymore. The bonus damage is just tiny and getting smaller, and I get far better results just using obliterate more often. Maybe if I stuck some points into ice so obliterate wouldn't consume the diseases, it would be worth using them again, but I don't think that's worth losing sudden doom and Might of Mograine.

My spec for those interested: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=jZG0exhxbRhoV0sZfMhhhckx0o (45/0/26). This is what I plan to switch to once 3.1 goes up. (since I think we'll be getting a free re-spec) There's only a few changes though, and mostly in unholy since I no longer use diseases at all. I got the 2 points of anticipation only because vicious strikes is completely worthless for me. Also not sure if I should move those points in dirge to impurity, but I think I'll get more mileage out of rune points than I will from the slightly more powerful death coil and DnD.

I'm putting my armory page in my sig now, so look there if you want to laugh at my crappy gear. :smalltongue:

[Leon]

I've not done WG to take the keep only defend it and not all that often on that but ive never seen anyone else do what i do - use the cannons in the inner walls to lay down fire in the Inner courtyard on the approach to the last door, very narrow field of fire but is typically a concentrated one.

[Vaynor]

I got to level 80 this Sunday! Yay me! I was more surprised than anything. I was level 75 just this friday, then by the end of the day was 77. Then saturday and I get to 79. Early on sunday I reach 80, and now I'm workin on gearing up. Currently in storm peaks when not raiding, and it's lots of fun. Looking forward to icecrown, which will finish up my questing in northrend. After which I'll probably explore the world and work more seriously on my orc shaman, and/or my dwarf pally.

Anyways, since my guild is full of tanks so far, especially DK ones, I'm focusing on DPS, especially blood. Any tips? I've heard rune weapon, the capstone of blood, isn't really worthwhile, and I think I agree. I'd rather just keep pumping out more death coils. It might boost my damage a wee bit, but I think I'm getting far more mileage out of my ghoul. Which is awesome, btw.

Also, I never use diseases anymore. The bonus damage is just tiny and getting smaller, and I get far better results just using obliterate more often. Maybe if I stuck some points into ice so obliterate wouldn't consume the diseases, it would be worth using them again, but I don't think that's worth losing sudden doom and Might of Mograine.

My spec for those interested: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=jZG0exhxbRhoV0sZfMhhhckx0o (45/0/26). This is what I plan to switch to once 3.1 goes up. (since I think we'll be getting a free re-spec) There's only a few changes though, and mostly in unholy since I no longer use diseases at all. I got the 2 points of anticipation only because vicious strikes is completely worthless for me. Also not sure if I should move those points in dirge to impurity, but I think I'll get more mileage out of rune points than I will from the slightly more powerful death coil and DnD.

I'm putting my armory page in my sig now, so look there if you want to laugh at my crappy gear. :smalltongue:

They're changing the bonus damage from diseases to percentage with the patch, making them much more worthwhile.

[TheEmerged]

I've not done WG to take the keep only defend it and not all that often on that but ive never seen anyone else do what i do - use the cannons in the inner walls to lay down fire in the Inner courtyard on the approach to the last door, very narrow field of fire but is typically a concentrated one.

Shoot, sometimes I'm happy if we just have all the guns manned. I knew about the reverse trick, thing is I'm usually in the towers so it doesn't work well there.

We've been having a problem with the horde "pre-loading" WG on my server lately, it seems. Yesterday, we had reports of as many as 20-30 horde already hanging out around the workshops 10 minutes before the fight started. What's more, somehow they had siege engines coming at the wall within minutes of the fight starting (not catapults, not demolishers, but full siege engines).

And yes, I know the pro-attacker imbalance is intended and even stated as such by Blizzard. What I don't think is intentional is the *extent* of the imbalance. Something needs to be done to make attacking the southern towers more viable.

[sihnfahl]

Also, I never use diseases anymore.
First, Dancing Rune Weapon is one of the best abilities you can muster. It's wicked when it mirrors every attack you do. It means a LOT of burst in unholy presence.

Now, diseases may not be all that good at the current time for anyone but unholy and shadowfrost (due to the damage boosts), but they're changing the way strikes work in 3.1 that pretty much means you HAVE to have a disease up to do real damage.

They're reducing the base damage, but greatly increasing the 'with disease' damage. I know; I've put my DK on the test server and tried diseaseless versus diseased.

I'll say this, though; it ended up being a bit of a damage buff they did - my current gear (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Hyjal&n=Merriana), right now, does decent damage on single target - and few folks can touch me when all-out AOE calls occur. Actually, the only person who can right now is a shadowpriest. (I have 5400 AP raidbuffed, and have seen 7k+ AP when procs occur).

It's higher on the test server.

[Khanderas]

We've been having a problem with the horde "pre-loading" WG on my server lately, it seems. Yesterday, we had reports of as many as 20-30 horde already hanging out around the workshops 10 minutes before the fight started. What's more, somehow they had siege engines coming at the wall within minutes of the fight starting (not catapults, not demolishers, but full siege engines).

And yes, I know the pro-attacker imbalance is intended and even stated as such by Blizzard. What I don't think is intentional is the *extent* of the imbalance. Something needs to be done to make attacking the southern towers more viable.
Well there is nothing wrong with that really. You cannot cap a GY/workshop or gain rank until the attack actually starts. The gain, compared to using the portals in dalaran is perhaps 10 seconds on the close GY and it is capped in any case long before the first person gains a rank, nevermind that guy making it back to the workshop.

[Adumbration]

I'll be getting my copy next Monday, and will probably get online on Wednesday, since I'll be spending the Tuesday with friends. I'm planning on a human Rogue. Does it matter what server I get, though?

[The Linker]

Human Rogue, eh? If you come to Cenarion Circle, we have a guild for GitPers called The Playgrounders. Once you make your character, you can use '/who playgrounder', pick a random person from the ensuing list (if anyone's online), and whisper them with something like "I'm Adumbration from the forums, lemme in." :smalltongue:

Cenarion Circle is an RP server, which is no different functionally from a Normal server -- it's just a server where people are encouraged to roleplay. Not a gigantic amount of difference, though. :smalltongue:

[Zherog]

If you can find a server where you know some people, such as the tip you just got from Linker, that's probably preferable. Otherwise, if you're going to just randomly pick a server try and find one with a low population.

[Adumbration]

I'll probably get the disc tomorrow, but I'll install and start playing it day after since I'll be gone for most of the day. And thanks, I'll check into the Cenarion circle. :smallsmile:

EDIT: I've now installed the game, but haven't yet registered. I noticed that with the package came a Guest pass key for 10 days, and a question occurred to me: is there anything to stop me from first using the guest pass, and when that runs out upgrade to the official one?

With these fees, 40 days would be nicer than 30.

[Prince Gimli]

As far as I know, one can create a new trial account with such a key, not extend the playtime on an account which has already been payed for. I am not 100 percent sure though, so I'd reccomend checking Blizzard's website for details.

[mangosta71]

I'll probably get the disc tomorrow, but I'll install and start playing it day after since I'll be gone for most of the day. And thanks, I'll check into the Cenarion circle. :smallsmile:

EDIT: I've now installed the game, but haven't yet registered. I noticed that with the package came a Guest pass key for 10 days, and a question occurred to me: is there anything to stop me from first using the guest pass, and when that runs out upgrade to the official one?

With these fees, 40 days would be nicer than 30.

Not sure if the guest key works that way, but you can always start with a trial account and upgrade that if you want 10 free days. Keep the guest key so if you have a friend that's interested in playing you can use that to refer him. You get some nice perks if you recruit someone.

[Jonzac]

I read this thread all the time to listen to what's going on, but I have to say I'm very happy I quit WOW. Played on Thorium Brotherhood and I never had the time to raid at all. I never made it to most of the instances and I couldn't even tell you how to get to Kara.

I did pick up WAR and I love it, although I'm a Mythic guy from way back in Dark Age of Camelot so my perception is a bit skewed. I don't feel the overwhelming need to HAVE to play long periods of time to keep up. Plus I really like the RvR for a reason. THere is nothing more fun that attacking or defending a keep, brining up rams, and siege engines. I also like the fact that there is collision detection when you fight other players. It means your tanks and DPS folks can actually stop people from getting to healers and spellcasters if your fighting at ANY kind of choke hold. I've watched 4-5 tanks block a rush while the ranged dps just threw down the damage.

I play in hour to two spurts and my less than great geared DPS and healers have no problem keeping up. Of course the open party system works great for this.

Nice to see the changes in WOW, but boy am I happy I don't have to raid to make the game playable at the high end anymore.

[B-Man]

You cannot use the Guest Keys on a live account with WoW... which is really annoying 'cause it would've been nice for Blizz to give you a month of free game time after dishing out $50 for an xpac (well... it was more here in NS than in ON for some bizarre reason but... eh...).

I do heartily recommend starting up on Cenarion Circle with your Alliance side character. It is a role playing server so you won't be ganked by Horde 'round any corner unless you want to fight Horde.

Just an aside right now: Why the heck did I pick up engineering at lvl 73?! I've decided (finally) just to go and farm the mats that I need but I need an upwards of 190+ copper ore 'cause most of the engineering stuff under 200 engineering skill relies on bronze and copper mats. Farmed for two hours and got my skill to 160 last night before calling it quits.

[kc0bbq]

Just an aside right now: Why the heck did I pick up engineering at lvl 73?! I've decided (finally) just to go and farm the mats that I need but I need an upwards of 190+ copper ore 'cause most of the engineering stuff under 200 engineering skill relies on bronze and copper mats. Farmed for two hours and got my skill to 160 last night before calling it quits.Engineering is far, far easier to level when at high character levels than as you go. If you have a high level miner you can get 10 stacks of copper ore in no time.

Only other comment, the heirloom items are nifty.

[B-Man]

I'm at 445 Mining right now, so it's just the time commitment that's starting to get at me. I had to install that gatherer addon to make it a little easier to remember where the nodes are. Once the realms are up again I'll be back in Hillsbrad Foothills gathering up some more Iron, Tin, and Copper. Maybe I should go for a change of scenery by going to Barrens.

EDIT: I got to 440 mining before getting Wrath properly by mining (read: hunting down) Khorium veins in Outland and Isle Quel'Danas. That was an interesting endeavour 'cause I think I could've gotten to 450 skill on Khorium alone if they spawned a little quicker.

[sihnfahl]

Nice to see the changes in WOW, but boy am I happy I don't have to raid to make the game playable at the high end anymore.
On the other side of the equation, raiding is so much easier that the only real way to get a challenge is to go for an achievement.

Guild clears Naxx in a single raid night.

[TheEmerged]

I play in hour to two spurts and my less than great geared DPS and healers have no problem keeping up. Of course the open party system works great for this.

Nice to see the changes in WOW, but boy am I happy I don't have to raid to make the game playable at the high end anymore.

See, I'm in the same boat timewise -- but I've never felt I *had* to raid to stay competitive. I enjoy WoW just fine. My only complaint in the past has been the brick wall that was the early parts of raiding keeping me from seeing a lot of content. I've heard this has improved in WotLK, but being able to play more than 1.5 hours at a time only one night a week means I still haven't seen Naxx.

[mangosta71]

On the other side of the equation, raiding is so much easier that the only real way to get a challenge is to go for an achievement.

Guild clears Naxx in a single raid night.

QFT.

As to why someone would pick up engi at 73, a number of people are becoming engis just long enough to skill up to 375 and make themselves the flying machines, then dropping it. 2 closer to the 100 mounts achievement.

[Jonzac]

See, I'm in the same boat timewise -- but I've never felt I *had* to raid to stay competitive. I enjoy WoW just fine. My only complaint in the past has been the brick wall that was the early parts of raiding keeping me from seeing a lot of content. I've heard this has improved in WotLK, but being able to play more than 1.5 hours at a time only one night a week means I still haven't seen Naxx.

I've heard things are easier, but I've also heard that if your not at lvl 80 now your pretty much hosed as there is no one at the lower levels doing any instances or dungeons.

I mean when was the last time anyone did Sunken Temple? Or at least did it without a lvl 80 to just walk them through? I remember having to scrounge around and finally get a good group to get my epic warlock weapon.

That's the stuff I think is missing now. Although I'm sure that the stuff for level 80s is good to go.

[Zherog]

I mean when was the last time anyone did Sunken Temple? Or at least did it without a lvl 80 to just walk them through? I remember having to scrounge around and finally get a good group to get my epic warlock weapon.

Me and a group of friends just did it two weeks ago, while we were all in the low 50s. We're planning on hitting BRD Thursday night.

[The Linker]

Heh, I was having a conversation with a guy in the LFG channel about how we can never find groups for lower level instances. We started urging the general public to revisit the old instances and relive past experiences!

Long story short, we managed to get three more people and ran Razorfen Downs all the way through, and I think the hunter, at level 42, was the highest level. It was pretty awesome. :smallbiggrin: I hope to run Scarlet Monastery soon as well.

[Zherog]

Same group I mentioned above has done Deadmines, Stockades, all four SM instances, Uldaman, and Mauradon.

[Philistine]

I've heard things are easier, but I've also heard that if your not at lvl 80 now your pretty much hosed as there is no one at the lower levels doing any instances or dungeons.

I mean when was the last time anyone did Sunken Temple? Or at least did it without a lvl 80 to just walk them through? I remember having to scrounge around and finally get a good group to get my epic warlock weapon.

That's the stuff I think is missing now. Although I'm sure that the stuff for level 80s is good to go.

I'm... not sure that's news. Low- and mid-level instance groups could be tough to find even in Vanilla. Some particularly unpopular ones (Maraudon, I'm looking at you!) were nearly impossible to find groups for. It got better - slightly, briefly - after TBC, as people levelled their new BElfs and Draenei... then dropped right back down again, except that the list of "bypassed content" grew to include the level 60 instances as well.

Worse: in those days, there weren't any Achievements to motivate level-capped players to run through old instances.

[B-Man]

So I'm finally done with Old World engineering. That was quicker than I anticipating it ever being. And I farmed all of my mats. All 120 Thorium, all 60+ Mithril, and all that Copper and Tin to make Bronze. I'm going to be working on getting to 350 or 400 tomorrow and maybe get back to levelling.

[Colmarr]

Some particularly unpopular ones (Maraudon, I'm looking at you!)

Really? I know I and my guildies made quite a few trips there to grab Nature resist items when we were first starting to tackle Zul'Gurub*.

* I hope that's the right one. The 20-man raid with the snake and bat bosses. Can you tell it's a while since I quit WoW :smallwink:

[mangosta71]

Me and a group of friends just did it two weeks ago, while we were all in the low 50s. We're planning on hitting BRD Thursday night.

I ran a BRD a couple weeks ago on my (at the time) 51 or 52 lock, and was the highest in the group to begin with. But then we had someone DC and never come back, finally got a replacement for him, 5 minutes later someone else had to leave, eventually replaced him, then 2 other people left, so we said screw it and grabbed a level 80 feral guildy.


Really? I know I and my guildies made quite a few trips there to grab Nature resist items when we were first starting to tackle Zul'Gurub*.

* I hope that's the right one. The 20-man raid with the snake and bat bosses. Can you tell it's a while since I quit WoW :smallwink:

Yeah, ZG has the bat and snake, though I never wore any nature resist gear for that. I remember soloing in Maraudon when the guild was preparing for AQ40, though...

[Philistine]

Really? I know I and my guildies made quite a few trips there to grab Nature resist items when we were first starting to tackle Zul'Gurub*.

* I hope that's the right one. The 20-man raid with the snake and bat bosses. Can you tell it's a while since I quit WoW :smallwink:

I remember ZG. I don't remember ever needing NR gear for it, though. Not for our first, painful attempts, and not for any other stage of the process - right up through running simultaneous full clears with two separate groups. And as I recall, one of the big complaints when AQ40 first opened was that hardly anyone had NR gear going in, because AQ40 was the first time NR had ever really been needed in the game.

In any case, level-capped characters farming resist gear for raiding has very little to do with what Jonzac and I were talking about, which is grabbing a group of appropriate-level friends to take on the instance "as intended." Mara was, what? A 45-50ish instance? But when I got into that level range with my first character, I spent a couple of weeks looking for a group heading in there - and never did find one. So I didn't bother picking up the quests for the place on subsequent toons. Didn't see any point to it.

[Adumbration]

I still haven't been able to play, due to the fricking patch downloads. I mean, c'mon, over 4 gigabytes? That's more than the whole original game is! With 100kb/s rate it took for ages, so I'll log in tomorrow.

Let's just hope there's no more other updates I need to download... Oh, and I'm a bit uncertain where to actually log in. When I originally installed the game, it threw up a web-page for it, but I wanted to download the game first. Will it work if I create the account here? (https://signup.wow-europe.com/)

[The Linker]

You should be fine, as long as Wow-Europe isn't weird or different in some way than here in North America. :smalltongue: You can create an account and submit your pay info and everything, and once it tells you your account has been created (and you've downloaded all the patches), you'll be able to login by starting WoW. The first screen past the opener thingy (the thing you press 'play' on in the bottom left) will have the username and password fields.

[Adumbration]

Created my account and logged in, but I couldn't find the Cenarion Circle from the list. I'm in Europe, so could that affect it? Joined a random RP server anyway, and I'm currently playing a 10th level rogue in Westlands.

[mangosta71]

Yeah, Cenarion Circle is a US server. Not sure how to get the US list if you installed the European version of the game, or even if it's possible.

[Zherog]

I'm hoping somebody can refresh my memory real quick, since I don't have access to any cool sites right now to look it up...

In BRD, who do you have to kill to get the key that opens all the doors and such?

[B-Man]

Zherog: It's a "suicide" quest that you have to do. There's an NPC outside the instance that's only visible if you die. There's a small chain inside BRD to do once you talk to him. IIRC, the quest is shareable to all party members.

It's a very long walk from Thorium Point to BRD.