View Full Version : Paladin without spellcasting

2009-02-10, 04:13 PM
I thought I remembered seeing an alternate class feature for paladins that gave them feats instead of spellcasting. Any idea where that is, and what it's called... or if I'm just hallucinating?

2009-02-10, 04:19 PM
Pretty sure it's in Complete Warrior, and you gain a bonus feat at each level where you would have gotten access to a new level of spells. There's a similar variant for the Ranger in the same place.

2009-02-10, 04:23 PM
I think it's in Complete Champion.

Olo Demonsbane
2009-02-10, 04:32 PM
Complete Warrior pg 13.

You don't get bonus feats though:

At 6th level your weapon becomes good aligned

At 11th level you can use a +4 ability score buff (basically)

At 13th level you heal your mount 5x the normal amount w/ lay on hands

At 16th level you can use holy sword once per day.

Basically, it gives you the same effects with less bookkeeping and dependance on wisdom.

2009-02-10, 04:39 PM
Holy Warrior (Complete Champion p 49): Lose spellcasting. Gain bonus feats. IMO, it's a waste compared to the spells you can get.

Sinfire Titan
2009-02-10, 04:44 PM
I think it's in Complete Champion.

This is correct. The CW versions gave them useless SLAs and were more of a nerf than a boon.

2009-02-10, 04:54 PM
Holy Warrior (Complete Champion p 49): Lose spellcasting. Gain bonus feats. IMO, it's a waste compared to the spells you can get.

I would agree, unless you're doing a 5 level or less dip into Paladin and don't plan on having a wisdom bonus to take advantage of the 0 spells per level, or really need that feat for something else in your build.

Are the feat choices restricted like fighter feats, or can it be any feat?

Keld Denar
2009-02-10, 05:09 PM
Even such, giving up spellcasting for even 1 feat is hardly optimal. Looking at Paladin1 casting, we get the amazing Rhino's Rush, double damage on a charge (swift casting time) and also Lesser Restoration as a 1st level spell.

Plus, even if you don't actually get the higher level spells, you can still use wands. A Wand of Knight's Move placed in a wand chamber installed in your sword of righteous beatdowns gives you a teleport lite ability, one of the greatest assets as a melee character. Combine with your friendly casters summons or friendly druid's animal companion and you can really get around.

2009-02-10, 06:01 PM
Fax made a list of simple variants for many of the PHB classes giving them maneuver progression from the ToB in place of other class features.

The paladin loses spellcasting and remove disease, and in return they gain swordsage-style maneuvers and stances with access to Stone Dragon, Iron Heart, Diamond Mind, White Raven, and Devoted Spirit.

All in all, just having Iron Heart, White Raven, and Devoted Spirit all in one place makes the variant pretty good in my opinion. You won't be able to cast Knight's Move on yourself, which sucks, but the maneuvers are pretty damn good.


2009-02-11, 02:35 AM
In stead of feats, use the spell Divie Sacrifice form complete champion or complete divine (don't remember exactly which) Gives you 1d6 extra damage on a hit for 2 hp sacrifice. Sacrifice more hp to do more dmg.
If blackguard, combine with Masohism from BoVD for +1 to hit for each 10 hp dmg you receive (including the hp sacrificed)