PDA

View Full Version : A real-life full attack... [d20-ish, I guess]



Ascension
2009-02-10, 08:33 PM
Granted, Wikipedia is an unreliable source, but while reading what they have to say about moon clips I ran into this... "Moon clips may be even faster to use than a speedloader. Jerry Miculek, a top IPSC revolver shooter, has demonstrated the ability to fire six shots from a .45 ACP revolver, reload, and fire six more shots to the 6x11-inch A zone of an IPSC target at 15 ft (4.6 m) in under three seconds, including reaction time to the start signal. This feat was possible by using moon clips to allow quick and reliable ejection of the fired rounds, and a quick reload of all six chambers at once." A magazine source was given, and though the link takes me to the magazine's homepage instead of the specific article cited, it seems fairly likely to be legit.

What got me about this was the specific figure given... "under three seconds"... under one round (3.5, at least, I don't know how long rounds are in 4E or d20 Modern). This means that Jerry Miculek must be at least level six in a full BAB class and must possess feats allowing him to reload a revolver as a free action (with moon clips, anyway). :smallbiggrin:

EDIT: Wait, no, that's 12 attacks in 3 seconds. He must be EPIC.

Ravens_cry
2009-02-10, 08:51 PM
He's even more epic then you think.
A round is 6 seconds in 3.5 and the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsincombat.htm)
24 shots.
1 turn.
So cheesy!

Fostire
2009-02-10, 08:51 PM
Wouldn't 3 seconds be a standard action, how the hell is he getting a full attack on a standard action? He must be cheating... damn munchkins

Ascension
2009-02-10, 08:54 PM
Hell, you're right, it is six seconds/round! Munchkin is right...

7th lvl scrub
2009-02-10, 09:05 PM
I declare shenanigans on this man!

Frosty
2009-02-10, 09:07 PM
Maybe he took manyshot?

Shades of Gray
2009-02-10, 09:13 PM
By your logic, how many attacks does a blender get? It is a double weapon (two blades) and has several hundred or thousand rotations per minute.

Enlong
2009-02-10, 09:13 PM
Maybe he took manyshot?

Can't be. It's a gun, not a bow. He's actually shooting one shot after another in rapid succession, not several shots at once. So that's twelve individual shots; and that's just his standard action.


By your logic, how many attacks does a blender get? It is a double weapon (two blades) and has several hundred or thousand rotations per minute.
That's a single attack (albeit, one with more damage then a regular chop). There's a precedent for whirling blades. That is, Blade Barrier (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/bladebarrier.htm).
The blender is just like that.

Douglas
2009-02-10, 09:16 PM
Obviously he's using some broken exotic weapon from an obscure third party sourcebook that multiplies your number of attacks. Probably combined with a feat from the same broken source that increases the multiplier, along with the Speed enhancement.

NEO|Phyte
2009-02-10, 09:17 PM
I smell double tap (http://d20resources.com/modern.d20.srd/feats/double.tap.php). Or, with the ability to autofire your revolver (possible to have the weapon modded for this, don't know about class abilities/feats to make it possible with an unmodded gun), burst fire (http://d20resources.com/modern.d20.srd/feats/burst.fire.php).

Project_Mayhem
2009-02-10, 09:20 PM
dots in celerity?

To graduate this thread :smallwink:

Riffington
2009-02-10, 09:28 PM
Actually, I'm pretty sure he's playing Rifts.

Starbuck_II
2009-02-10, 09:33 PM
Can't be. It's a gun, not a bow. He's actually shooting one shot after another in rapid succession, not several shots at once. So that's twelve individual shots; and that's just his standard action.


That's a single attack (albeit, one with more damage then a regular chop). There's a precedent for whirling blades. That is, Blade Barrier (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/bladebarrier.htm).
The blender is just like that.

Aptitude Weapon (+1 enhancement) lets him count his gun as a bow from Tome of Battle. This requires him to have a magic gun though.

Enlong
2009-02-10, 09:56 PM
Aptitude Weapon (+1 enhancement) lets him count his gun as a bow from Tome of Battle. This requires him to have a magic gun though.

Hm.... still not feasable for what he's doing. Manyshot caps out at four projectiles per standard action, and even if his DM lets him fudge it so that he can use it with both revolvers in the same standard action, that'd only be eight bullets. He's shooting 12 on one standard action, so it can't be Manyshot.

A shame though, Manyshotting with guns would be freaking sweet.

Ascension
2009-02-10, 10:10 PM
There is no "both revolvers"... he only used one. That being said, I think Manyshot for guns is called the Pepperbox (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepperbox)/Harmonica gun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonica_gun).

Deth Muncher
2009-02-10, 10:11 PM
Hm.... still not feasable for what he's doing. Manyshot caps out at four projectiles per standard action, and even if his DM lets him fudge it so that he can use it with both revolvers in the same standard action, that'd only be eight bullets. He's shooting 12 on one standard action, so it can't be Manyshot.

A shame though, Manyshotting with guns would be freaking sweet.

Obviously, he shoots the first four, then Celeritys into a Maximised Time Stop, takes one para-round to recover and reload, then shoots, reloads and shoots. Simple.

Ascension
2009-02-10, 10:15 PM
Face it, real life has outdone CharOp.

You know what this means, don't you...?

WE NEED A NEW PRESTIGE CLASS.

Enlong
2009-02-10, 10:17 PM
There is no "both revolvers"... he only used one. That being said, I think Manyshot for guns is called the Pepperbox (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepperbox)/Harmonica gun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonica_gun).

Holy... I didn't realize that.

So... he fires a full round of six bullets from the revolver, the moon clip reloads the whole thing, and he fires another six shots after that... all in under 3 seconds...

How fast does a Moon Clip reload, and what input is required from the marksman after loading the clip in? I'm not entirely sure, and the Wikipedia description is kind of hard to read.

Siosilvar
2009-02-10, 10:17 PM
WE NEED A NEW PRESTIGE CLASS.



Or a new feat.

**** this, I'm Chuck Norris in disguise.
Benefit: You may do whatever the hell you want.
Normal: You are not Chuck Norris.

ericgrau
2009-02-10, 10:20 PM
Meh, let's see him do it against a moving target or multiple randomly assorted targets. With a properly setup gun with a super light trigger you can fire off all 6 shots practically at once. I'd really like to see him move the gun to 6 randomly placed targets between shots and still aim before the next bullet comes out. (EDIT: clarified random targetting necessary in d&d fight)

So there you have it. He munchkined a light trigger into his gun, letting him empty the entire clip as an attack action. He took rapid reload to reload the clip along with rapid shot so he can pull off 4 attacks in a round.

FWIW a well trained archer can fire an aimed shot every 3 seconds, twice per round.

Kazuel
2009-02-10, 10:21 PM
Just to add a bit of perspective from someone who does shoot guns (albiet not with that kind of speed), I assure you that he can only do that as part of a full round action and not a standard action, I would be more likely to believe that he had to spend a full round action prior to shooting to prepare/aim. There is no way the could move 30ft and then do that. He had to have been standing still and had to mentaly prepare himself for the feat.

Deth Muncher
2009-02-10, 10:30 PM
Relevant Video is relevant. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uisHfKj2JiI)

And also, what a moon clip looks like:

http://www.geocities.com/mr_motorhead/moon_clip.jpg

AtomicKitKat
2009-02-10, 11:06 PM
So basically, a "moon clip" is just a sort of mini daisy-chain of bullets that you put against the chambers, and when you swing the chambers back in, there's now a bullet in each one.

Munchkin item.:smallfrown:

BobVosh
2009-02-10, 11:22 PM
He was just optimizing. Notice it didn't say he killed 12 men in 3 seconds. You newbs never get theoretical charops.

Arbitrarity
2009-02-10, 11:45 PM
Whirling Frenzy Barbarian/Warblade/Eternal Blade.
Rapid Shot + Whirling Frenzy + Speed Weapon + Time Stands Still + Raging Mongoose + Full BAB + Island In Time = 25 attacks in a round.
:smallwink:

Bow or crossbow, one weapon.

Tohron
2009-02-10, 11:48 PM
He's even more epic then you think.
A round is 6 seconds in 3.5 and the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsincombat.htm)
24 shots.
1 turn.
So cheesy!

24 attacks is nothing.

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=146.0

Ascension
2009-02-11, 12:10 AM
Whirling Frenzy Barbarian/Warblade/Eternal Blade.
Rapid Shot + Whirling Frenzy + Speed Weapon + Time Stands Still + Raging Mongoose + Full BAB + Island In Time = 25 attacks in a round.
:smallwink:

Bow or crossbow, one weapon.

This was impressive...


24 attacks is nothing.

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=146.0

...until this. Good to know CharOp is still well, well ahead of rationality.

Nerd-o-rama
2009-02-11, 12:19 AM
Moon clips allow you to use Autofire with a revolver. Simple as that.

Arbitrarity
2009-02-11, 12:21 AM
Yeah, but the charop build is non-humanoid, throws weapons with some 20+ limbs, etc. Mine is much closer to the simulation, i.e. one weapon, 2 hands, ranged, little to no magic, etc. Otherwise, you'd see thri-kreen with Girallon's blessing coming out.

Also, it violated WBL horribly, using some 42 million gold on magic items.

Kurald Galain
2009-02-11, 04:41 AM
EDIT: Wait, no, that's 12 attacks in 3 seconds. He must be EPIC.

Ah, I suppose his player is just the DM's gf.

Er... wait a minute... :smallbiggrin: