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DMBlackhart
2009-02-10, 11:43 PM
Warrow
-Small Humanoid
-+2 Dex, -2 Str
-Archery training: Proficiant with both the longbow and shortbow ( non composite)
- +1 to non-composite longbows and shortbows
-low-light vision
-+2 racial bonus to all Move Silently and Hide checks.
-Base land speed 20ft
-Immunity to magic sleep effects, and trance as an elf.


-Favored class: Thornwalker

Warrows are small, halfling sized humanoids that are almost like elves during their younger years, in reference to their dexterity and bodily proportions. They are trained to become the ultimate archers since warrow are not excatly an intimidating sight when fought in melee. The young male warrow (buccaroes) are trained to serve two years as a Thornwalker to protect their homeland.

Thornwalker

Thornwalkers are the elite archers of the warrow race. They can hit nearly any target at any distance and are terrifying when attacking in large numbers.

Skill Points: 4+(Int Mod)x4 at first level
4+ Int Mod

Class skills: Move Silently, Tumble, Hide, Listen, Spot, Climb, Survival, Use rope

Thornwalkers gain proficiency with all martial and simple ranged weapons. Thornwalkers gain proficiency only with simple melee weapons. Thornwalkers also have proficiency with light and medium armors and no shields.

Hit Die:d6


Level Base Attack Bonus Fortitude Save Reflex Save Will Save Special
1 +1 +0 +2 +0 Bonus Feat
2 +2 +0 +3 +0 Evasion
3 +3 +1 +3 +1 Multi-Weapon Mastery
4 +4 +1 +4 +1
5 +5 +1 +4 +1 Aimed Shot
6 +6 +2 +5 +2 Arrow Mind 1/day
7 +7 +2 +5 +2 Ranged Mastery
8 +8 +2 +6 +2 Fletch Lore
9 +9 +3 +6 +3 Bonus Feat, Arrow Mind 2/day
10 +10 +3 +7 +3 Reaction Shot
11 +11 +3 +7 +3 Improved Aimed Shot
12 +12 +4 +8 +4 Arrow Mind3/day
13 +13 +4 +8 +4 Devastating Shot
14 +14 +4 +9 +4
15 +15 +5 +9 +5 Bonus Feat, Arrow Mind 4/day
16 +16 +5 +10 +5
17 +17 +5 +10 +5 Improved Reaction Shot
18 +18 +6 +11 +6 Bonus Feat, Arrow Mind 5/Day
19 +19 +6 +11 +6 Deadly Missile, Bonus Feat
20 +20 +6 +12 +6

Class Abilities

-Aimed Shot: single attack with bonus equal to highest attack bonus +1/2 Thornwalker level. takes a full round to preform.

-Improved Aimed Shot: As Aimed shot but does an additional 2d8 damage


-Multi-Weapon Mastery
o At 3rd level you gain the ability to switch specialization of weapons for more flexibility. By spending 1 hour practicing with the new weapon, you may change all weapon-specific feats such as weapon focus from one weapon to apply to the new one.

-Evasion

Fletch Lore: You make craft arrows as though you had a CL equal to your level and Craft Magical Arms and Weapons, but you must still find another way to provide spell requirements.

-Bonus Feats: drawn from the fighter’s feat list

-Ranged Mastery
o Whenever a Thornwalker uses a full round action to make a single attack the penalties due to range are reduced by half.


-Arrow Minded
"You can cast Arrow Mind once per day, plus an addetional times perday every three levels past 6th level. Caster level is half your Thornwalker level."


-Devastating shot
o At 13th level you may choose to subtract a number from your attack with a ranged weapon that is no more than your base attack bonus to gain a bonus to damage equal to that number

-Reaction Shot
o At 10th level, you may make a ranged attack as a swift action with a -5 penalty to the attack

-Improved Reaction Shot
o At 17th level, your Reaction Shot improves so that the attack only suffers a -2 penalty

-Deadly Missiles
o At 19th level, your ranged weapons are considered one size larger for determining damage and are considered adamantine for overcoming damage reduction and dealing damage to objects


Thoughts? Ideas? Other fans of the literature?

This is credited to... DrizztFan24.

THANKS FOR ALL THE HELP!!! it is finished

Arbitrarity
2009-02-11, 12:16 AM
Saves are all messed up. Weak fort, strong reflex, weak will. I'm mentally comparing to an optimal Scout4/Ranger 16 swift hunter, with the entire +7d6 skirmish on every attack.

NOT ENOUGH CLASS SKILLS. Needs more skills, badly.

What action does aimed shot take? Standard, or full round? It's fairly weak.

Rain of arrows: What. That's... pretty silly. It gives 2 attacks per round at full BAB at level 2, making you outclass other archers easily. It gets worse later, but has so many attacks, it slows down the game.

Weapon aptitude: Don't care.

Feats are reasonably spaced, like scout bonus feats. Oh wait, there are a bunch of random extra feats in there as well. Yuck, I have to compile those together to count.

Defensive archer doesn't specify what area you threaten for AoO's. Is it within range? 15 ft? 5 ft? 5 is reasonable, 10 is ok, 15 is pushing it, since that basically duplicates a very good ranger spell.

Ranged mastery is pretty useless.
Practiced Bowman is nice. It's additive with strength, so is a good source of extra damage.

Devastating shot is like Hank's Energy bow, but is at least equivalent to a feat or two.

Reaction shot is reasonable, if very limited.

Felling shot is still useless.

Ow, improved devastating shot is pushing it. That's a lot of damage at ranged.

Greater reaction shot is redundant with the threatening, just adds another attack.

Hawk strike is entirely meh. Again, wasting actions isn't worthwhile when you could spam as many arrows as this class does.

Deadly missiles is actually not bad. Not too powerful, and adds a nice little boost.

Bird's eye view is a pretty lousy capstone, really. It's almost worse than Improved Precise shot.

Now, let's see what I got from that commentary:
Warrow should only have +1 to hit with bows. Give it something else, but +2 is too much. They're basically halflings who traded in their bonus to saves, with a CON penalty. You could give them a bonus feat, or equivalent, like Strongheart Halflings, or come up with something new.
I expect to see Thornwalkers all with greatbows. That's how they roll.

Wait, Rain of arrows is worded like that? No. It should be "When making a full attack... etc." It's also kinda variable. I'd try something like adding attacks without BAB boosts, or something like that. Maybe remove any strength bonus to damage? It's pretty overpowered, and needs some sort of nerf.

Aimed shot, Ranged Mastery, Felling shot, and Hawk's Eye are pretty much useless, and I'm not even going to incorporate them into looking at the class. They're just not useful.

Yeah, 9 bonus feats? No. Fighter gets 11, for crying out loud. Take out all of the variable bonus feats, or all of the static ones (and add a clause allowing the Thornwalker to qualify as a fighter of it's level -3 or something for bonus feats).

Improved devastating shot seems too good. As it is, the class can stack up a ton of bonuses to hit, between the free weapon foci, and mastery, and racial bonus, and so on. Either cut this, or nerf it to 1.5 or something.

Now, what does that leave me with?

Dead
Rain of Arrows (NERF)
Multi-Weapon Mastery, Evasion
Practiced Bowman, Bonus Feat
Ranged Mastery
Dead
Defensive Archer
Bonus Feat
Devastating Shot
Improved Defensive Archer
Reaction Shot
Improved Evasion, Bonus Feat
Improved Reaction Shot
Dead
Bonus Feat
Improved Devastating Shot (nerf)
Greater Reaction Shot (confusing, seems redundant)
Dead
Deadly Missiles
Bird's Eye View (not very useful), Bonus Feat

Well, I cut out the abilities that require full round actions for a single attack, because they shouldn't see use. It's still a much better archer than a stock fighter, I think, and it should function like a reach weapon character in melee, which is pretty good. On full attacks, it should do similar damage to the swift hunter, replacing bonus dice with dex bonus, power attack, and a ton of shots. A full attack routine at level 20 (rapid shot, haste and Reaction shot incl) looks like this right now: 18/18/18/16/13/8/3/3/3/3/3/3/3. That's messy. Make some downside to Rain of Arrows, or something. It's ridiculous right now.

Masterclick
2009-02-11, 01:51 AM
Shouldn't the Warrow get -2 str for being small size as well?

DrizztFan24
2009-02-11, 09:45 AM
Now, what does that leave me with?

Dead
Rain of Arrows (NERF)
Multi-Weapon Mastery, Evasion
Practiced Bowman, Bonus Feat
Ranged Mastery
Dead
Defensive Archer
Bonus Feat
Devastating Shot
Improved Defensive Archer
Reaction Shot
Improved Evasion, Bonus Feat
Improved Reaction Shot
Dead
Bonus Feat
Improved Devastating Shot (nerf)
Greater Reaction Shot (confusing, seems redundant)
Dead
Deadly Missiles
Bird's Eye View (not very useful), Bonus Feat

Well, I cut out the abilities that require full round actions for a single attack, because they shouldn't see use. It's still a much better archer than a stock fighter, I think, and it should function like a reach weapon character in melee, which is pretty good. On full attacks, it should do similar damage to the swift hunter, replacing bonus dice with dex bonus, power attack, and a ton of shots. A full attack routine at level 20 (rapid shot, haste and Reaction shot incl) looks like this right now: 18/18/18/16/13/8/3/3/3/3/3/3/3. That's messy. Make some downside to Rain of Arrows, or something. It's ridiculous right now.

I combed through the list briefly last night and this is the list i came up with

Weapon Focus

Rain of Arrows-ish, needs tweakage

Multi-Weapon Mastery

Evasion-grant later

Practiced Bowman?

Weapon Specialization

Defensive Archer-can be chucked

Weapon Mastery

Imp. Defensive Archer-cool but OP

Reaction Shot-cool, but again can be OP

Greater reaction shot-makes sense, but perhaps feat instead of class ability

Deadly Missiles-would be nice for a capstone perhaps

I need to narrow down the list of abilities, so, better? Once I decide which abilities I want to keep I can hone the abilities.

EDIT: is the -2 STR from size or racial penalties? I suppose I could take it off, but then the whole point of the ranged attacks gets reduced.

DMBlackhart
2009-02-11, 10:06 AM
The way I can see it the warrow does indeed get a -2 to str as well.

The way I see it, it would make more sense to use the first reply's ( other then mine ) list of abilities, they make the most sense in my opinion anyways. Although the once labeled nerf seem too broken to make them work. Taking away the ones labeled nerf/ or useless and maybe increasing the classes fort or will save marginally would make the most sense. Comments?

DMBlackhart
2009-02-11, 10:22 AM
Alright I have edited it. I took the liberty of setting up the abilities and altering the skills as I would think is most benificial. If there are still issues I ask for further PEACHing.

To: Drizzt, Be sure to add in a few more class skills ( I.E Climb, Tracking, Bluff, etc. )

Otherwise I think your class is set up well now ( if you want to make a character with it now, go right ahead, I will implement any further PEACHing that may occur before friday. )

Arbitrarity
2009-02-11, 06:28 PM
The way I can see it the warrow does indeed get a -2 to str as well.

The way I see it, it would make more sense to use the first reply's ( other then mine ) list of abilities, they make the most sense in my opinion anyways. Although the once labeled nerf seem too broken to make them work. Taking away the ones labeled nerf/ or useless and maybe increasing the classes fort or will save marginally would make the most sense. Comments?

I actually cut out the ones I felt were totally useless. I just don't like improved devastating shot, it seems too good. 2 handed power attack is one of the damage staples of melee fighters, and it doesn't seem right to give an archer an equal ability in damage, when it is MUCH easier for them to attack.

Chopping the variable bonus feats for the static is a bit of a nerf, but seems fair enough. After all, it's one of the few ways to get weapon mastery.

Reaction shot really isn't broken. It's just a free shot, and considering how many attacks this class makes, it's not too bad. However, I would consider adding more abilities which require swift actions if you keep it, so it isn't an "every turn" thing. Management of swift actions is a neat mechanic.

Defensive archer and improved defensive archer, actually, would make good candidates for swift action usage. So, allow threatening, with the use of the swift action, or reaction shot, or... something else, maybe?

The race, however, is now underpowered in the EXTREME. Compare to halflings, again. They get -2 CON, -1 all saves, no attack bonus. For proficiency. Which tends to be entirely useless if you plan on using the bow anyways. That's horrible. Cut either the strength, or con loss, and give them back some bonus with bows, like +1, and something else.