The next gate

[Drivort]

Well, the name of the thread says a lot already.

I just read some older strips again and stumbled over strip 331 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0331.html) and remembered that Girard is, after all, a master of illusions. Since we do not know how big his gate is, is there the possibility of Xykon not realizing where the gate exactly is and just passing by it, making the oracle's information, once again, pretty useless? After all, there is also the 1000 foot radius, which is about 300 metres, if I am not mistaken. That isn't really big, but nonetheless, I consider it worth thinking about. I'm not too familiar with the D&D spells, but I suspect that there are plenty of spells to distract, confuse and/or simply annoy anybody looking for the gate, so maybe there is the possibility of Xykon not trying, not finding or trying and giving up Girard's gate, continueing to Kraagor's gate?


Thoughts? Am I overthinking it? Discuss! And if somebody already brought this topic up, sorry :<

[Surfing HalfOrc]

Oh, it gets brought up all the time, but it's all good. Sometimes it's good to kick around an old topic, then let yourself get sucked into the Morality Wars.

Many people (myself included) think that this is where the OotS is headed next, although the story has several possible branches. The big thing that keeps "Our Heroes" tied down is that that they ARE Heroes, and not just Adventurers. This means running away to explore the next gate has to hold off until Azure City is either recaptured, or the Azurites have a new home.

Now if Xykon leaves, and takes Redcloak with him, that would leave the actual city in the hands of the relatively competent and now entrenched hobgoblins under what has been seen as capable leadership. A rather hard nut to crack. Also, the hobgoblins are not likely to just up and leave, without taking their hard won slave population with them.

Meanwhile, Xykon and Redcloak might have a clue on how to find the last two gates... Between Serini's notes, and that Lord Shojo wasn't above gaining information that he technically wasn't supposed to have, Team Evil may have all it needs to at least locate Girard's gate. Probably both gates, to be honest.

There is also the long unanswered question of Lord Tyrinar and Nale &Elan's father (thought my many, but not all, to be one and the same), freeing Haley's father, adding whatever he can to the mix.

Since Girard's Gate is across the ocean, Xykon and Co. have no reason to pass by the gate without making a search. Especially since Xykon would consider conquering eight countries to be entertaining!

Still, the story has to at least get Roy back on his feet and end this long, drawn-out "The OotS is even more dysfuntional without Roy" extended arc, and get back into the swing of things. The biggest thing that would help? A cure for whatever it is that ails Rich! Then he could go back to three a week, PLUS books, games and freelance projects on the side!

[Volkov]

Well, the name of the thread says a lot already.

I just read some older strips again and stumbled over strip 331 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0331.html) and remembered that Girard is, after all, a master of illusions. Since we do not know how big his gate is, is there the possibility of Xykon not realizing where the gate exactly is and just passing by it, making the oracle's information, once again, pretty useless? After all, there is also the 1000 foot radius, which is about 300 metres, if I am not mistaken. That isn't really big, but nonetheless, I consider it worth thinking about. I'm not too familiar with the D&D spells, but I suspect that there are plenty of spells to distract, confuse and/or simply annoy anybody looking for the gate, so maybe there is the possibility of Xykon not trying, not finding or trying and giving up Girard's gate, continueing to Kraagor's gate?


Thoughts? Am I overthinking it? Discuss! And if somebody already brought this topic up, sorry :<
Mordenkainen's disjunction will seriously screw over any illusion Girard can cast.

[David Argall]

so maybe there is the possibility of Xykon not trying, not finding or trying and giving up Girard's gate, continueing to Kraagor's gate?

You are within a quarter mile of a friend's home and have lost the address. Do you start searching phone books, other friends? Or do you say "forget it" and head off to visit another friend, who lives on the other side of the country and whose address you also don't have?

No. Once Xykon gets within 1000 feet, any illusions will be merely delays, possibly very long delays, but Xykon is not pressed for time. He can just sit around and slowly work his way thru the illusions.

[hamishspence]

Aren't many illusions mind-affecting, and aren't undead immune to mind-effecting spells? If so, Xykon has major advantage over the Order- he can just walk through many of the defenses.

[ericgrau]

Aren't many illusions mind-affecting, and aren't undead immune to mind-effecting spells? If so, Xykon has major advantage over the Order- he can just walk through many of the defenses.

Some are, most of them are not.

[Silverraptor]

Let us also not forget that the Oracle was pretty shocked at Roy's question about the gates. He even said Quote:"Wouldn't it be easier to just ask which Gate is Xykon headed too next?" In other words, when Xykon gets within the 1000 meters of Girands Gate, Chances are that he'll just come and knock. So yup, I'm positve it's Girands Gate.

[Innis Cabal]

No, the answer to that one was he was closest to Azure city's gate.

[hamishspence]

the request for a prediction specifically excluded the Azure Gate, which is why Roy was annoyed at himself when he realized that.

[Innis Cabal]

This comic seems to point that Roy's answer was in fact Azure city.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0331.html

And there isn't a need to be positive, the Orcale said it word for word

[hamishspence]

problem was- Roy failed to include Azure city in list- specifying only two locations. "Of these two, which will Xykon be near to first?" basically.

the invasion of Azure city fails to invalidate the prophesy, meaning, if the Oracle can be relied on (has been so far) Xykon will be near Girard's gate, before he is near Kraagors.

[Molant]

True Seeing = pointless illusions

[NamonakiRei]

Well, I don't think Xykon will miss the gate. What the oracle said was proof enough. Even if Xykon was going to Azure City first, the Oracle predicted that after he goes to Azure City, he'd go to Girard's. We know htat. Also on comic 543 Redcloack states they're going to Girard's gate.

But he also said they have no idea how it's protected(And that's why they have to keep O-Chul alive), so perhaps they'll take a long tame to reach it :smallbiggrin:, wich probably will delay them. Even though I'm positive they know where the gates ARE, the fact that they don't know how they're protected... oh, it would be hilarious if it was an illusory maze, like O-Chul said(Though I believe that was discussed in another thread:smallconfused:)

[TengYt]

Even so, it is heavily implied that Xykon and pals will need to pass through several kingdoms to get to the next gate, given what Redcloak said a while back. If Xykon intends to invade these kingdoms rather than simply bypassing them, it could take them a very long time to Girard's gate, especially since he lost a good portion of his army at Azure City.

[The Blackbird]

True Seeing = pointless illusions

I concur:smallamused:

[Volkov]

Of all the gates Girard's gate is probably the most poorly defended against someone like Xykon. But if that gate is destroyed the world would become hideously unstable, possibly to the point where Snarl could destroy the last gate itself via claw poking out of a rip.

[Rotipher]

True Seeing = pointless illusions

If another member of the OotScr was powerful enough to invoke a Cloister effect against scrying or magical communication, Girard may likewise have been able to nullify True Seeing in his own gate's vicinity. We're talking about a guy who would've probably counted among the greatest illusionists in the history of Stickworld, after all, and it's a safe bet he wasn't stupid.

[Tyrmatt]

True Seeing = pointless illusions

I imagine that the epic level illusions that Girard would have crafted would be capable of nullifying the non-epic True Seeing's effect when it's cast by a caster that should be well below Girard's epic levels.
Also to my mind, Xykon doesn't really seem the type to bother with knowing True Seeing. Why bother when you can just open fire and sift through the ashes left at the end?
Redcloak obviously can just requisition it in his daily spells but all it takes is one simple mind-affecting illusion of sufficiently epic casting against him to render him incapable of casting it on himself or Xykon.
Hmm, I just had an idea for a spell-trap that goes off when True Seeing is used in a particular area...one that let's players see how things REALLY are...

[Volkov]

If another member of the OotScr was powerful enough to invoke a Cloister effect against scrying or magical communication, Girard may likewise have been able to nullify True Seeing in his own gate's vicinity. We're talking about a guy who would've probably counted among the greatest illusionists in the history of Stickworld, after all, and it's a safe bet he wasn't stupid.
Mordenkainen's disjusnction>Illusions.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

Mordenkainen's disjusnction>Illusions.

Epic>Non-Epic

Why can't the snarky types ever give anyone else credit for planning? :smallannoyed:

Girard wasn't a chump. I'm sure he planned for the "My spell trumps your entire spellbook" wizards.

[kusje]

Anyone have Mordenkainen's disjusnction's spell description?

[Surfing HalfOrc]

Anyone have Mordenkainen's disjusnction's spell description?

Well, here's the Mage's Disjunction Spell:

Mage’s Disjunction
Abjuration
Level: Magic 9, Sor/Wiz 9
Components: V
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Area: All magical effects and magic items within a 40-ft.-radius burst
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will negates (object)
Spell Resistance: No

All magical effects and magic items within the radius of the spell, except for those that you carry or touch, are disjoined. That is, spells and spell-like effects are separated into their individual components (ending the effect as a dispel magic spell does), and each permanent magic item must make a successful Will save or be turned into a normal item. An item in a creature’s possession uses its own Will save bonus or its possessor’s Will save bonus, whichever is higher.

You also have a 1% chance per caster level of destroying an antimagic field. If the antimagic field survives the disjunction, no items within it are disjoined.

Even artifacts are subject to disjunction, though there is only a 1% chance per caster level of actually affecting such powerful items. Additionally, if an artifact is destroyed, you must make a DC 25 Will save or permanently lose all spellcasting abilities. (These abilities cannot be recovered by mortal magic, not even miracle or wish.)

Note: Destroying artifacts is a dangerous business, and it is 95% likely to attract the attention of some powerful being who has an interest in or connection with the device.

Now, Epic Level Illusions are not Artifacts, but they are not Apprentice's Cantrips either. And there is that 40 foot range. Does anybody think that Girard might have made his Citadel a tad larger than 40' radius? Might take more than one spell to eliminate the illusion, and of course, what if the Citadel is built like a maze? Clear a section, only to find another illusion filled section. Over "normal" trapdoors, dropping overconfident Heroes (or Villians) to their spiky doom.

Yeah, I don't see Girard's Gate being the "breeze in, breeze out" that some of the Forumites think it will be.

[Rotipher]

Come to think of it, Girard's illusions might be something that would-be intruders can't afford to negate. He could've covered every inch of his gate's surroundings with Symbols, for example: dispel the layered illusions which cloak those, and wham! Or the illusions, themselves, might provide the only available clues to the riddle(s) which grant entry; if you can't see the illusions, you'll never guess the passcode to bypass the gate's non-illusory defenses.