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PrismaticPIA
2009-02-11, 02:52 PM
Playing a Half-Ogre Goliath with Monkey grip. What is the biggest, baddest, most damaging weapon I can find (taking dice numbers, threat range, and threat modifiers into account), and what book is it out of?

Eldariel
2009-02-11, 03:03 PM
1. Use a bludgeoning weapon; that way a Wizard can cast Greater Mighty Wallop [Dragon Magic] on it and increase the damage category by up to +5 (presently you should be able to wield a Gargantuan weapon, so it would give you a Colossal++++ weapon; add the "Giant Size"-spell and you get Colossal+++++++).

2. Use Strongarm Bracers [Magic Item Compendium] over Monkey Grip; the same thing in equipment-form, except without the -2 penalty.


Now, to answer your question, the biggest damage you can eke out of a weapon I know of is the Fullblade [A&EG]. It's a two-handed exotic weapon (classified "Huge" according to 3.0 weapon size rules, which would mean one category above two-handed for 3.5; EWP specifically gives you proficiency though) with 2d8 damage die. Effectively just a Large Bastard Sword, but one that's wieldable for a medium character with the appropriate feat with no penalties. The only bigger damage die you could acquire is maximized unarmed strike (without size modifiers, 2d10 and very easy to multiply).

For the record, quick calculation shows that with Powerful Build, Improved Natural Attack, Unarmed Style Mastery, CL20 Greater Mighty Wallop and CL20 Giant Size & 2d10 Unarmed Damage, you'd deal 256d6 (or Colossal++++++++ 2d10) base damage per attack.

Fax Celestis
2009-02-11, 03:15 PM
MONKEY GRIP AND POWERFUL BUILD DO NOT STACK.

Both state "as one size larger than you are", not merely "as one size larger."

Dragonsdoom
2009-02-11, 03:45 PM
For the record, quick calculation shows that with Powerful Build, Improved Natural Attack, Unarmed Style Mastery, CL20 Greater Mighty Wallop and CL20 Giant Size & 2d10 Unarmed Damage, you'd deal 256d6 (or Colossal++++++++ 2d10) base damage per attack.
Not to mention Giant Size is a range personal spell...

Eldariel
2009-02-11, 04:07 PM
Not to mention Giant Size is a range personal spell...

That's what UMD is for, right? Or Sacred Fist.

Douglas
2009-02-11, 04:08 PM
And Greater Mighty Wallop explicitly caps at Colossal...

Eldariel
2009-02-11, 04:10 PM
And Greater Mighty Wallop explicitly caps at Colossal...

Oh, it did? I totally didn't remember that. Oh well, then one has to actually work towards Much Above Colossal damage dice. Good news.

metalbear
2009-02-11, 04:28 PM
May I make a suggestion? Instead of Half-Ogre template, go for the Half-Minotaur template. With Half-Ogre you get:
+2 AC, +4 strength, -2 Intelligence, -2 Charisma, and Darkvision 60 for feet.
The Half-Minotaur template on the other hand gives you:
+AC, +2 Wisdom, -2 Intelligence, +2 Constitution, the track feat, Darkvision 60 feet, the Scent ability, +2 on spot, listen, and search, a 1d6 gore attack, and a +4 save against Maze. While it will not help you maximize your damage, it will help make you make a more resilient and well rounded character.

monty
2009-02-11, 04:37 PM
I thought Half-Minotaur also gave +4 Str (in addition to the size bonus), but I may be remembering wrong. I seem to recall comparing the two side-by-side and finding Half-Minotaur objectively better in pretty much every way.

bobspldbckwrds
2009-02-11, 04:53 PM
i would just go all out, get a spiked chain, take great cleave (and the prerequisite feats), whirlwind attack (yet again, prerequisites) and drop a bag of rats when you go into battle.

Dragonsdoom
2009-02-11, 05:07 PM
That's what UMD is for, right? Or Sacred Fist.

Completely true, but I think you are underestimating what is required of this;

Before epic you will never get to 2d10 unarmed damage from class levels alone, because to get into enlightened fist you need three levels of caster. Monk's belts are a normal thing for monks though, I understand that and will not argue the point.

In the case of a UMD check, you need to make a DC 34 UMD check(Assuming you don't have a 19 Int), followed by a DC 40. These are cross-class skills for the monk and Charisma is not usually a monk primary stat, so even the 40 alone is fairly high. The point I am trying to make here is that you can't guarantee it working every time without some fairly heavy equipment.

Of course I could be wrong on some points, I don't have all the books yet. :smalltongue:

Fax Celestis
2009-02-11, 05:45 PM
In the case of a UMD check, you need to make a DC 34 UMD check(Assuming you don't have a 19 Int), followed by a DC 40....unless the spell is on your class' spell list. So using Wu Jen to qualify for Sacred Fist (which I don't recall if it's possible or not) gets rid of the second part.

PrismaticPIA
2009-02-11, 05:50 PM
What book is Half-Minotaur out of?

AslanCross
2009-02-11, 05:53 PM
I suggest the greathammer. If you go by the Monster Manual IV version, it's 2d6, 19-20/x4, two handed, at medium size. For some reason, they never gave any errata of it. It's Exotic, though.

hamishspence
2009-02-11, 05:56 PM
Dragon Magazine 313- Races of Power: Str +4 Con +2 Int -2, LA +1- template.

However- I have no Dragonlance books- did it appear in one of them as a published template?

Dragonsdoom
2009-02-11, 06:07 PM
...unless the spell is on your class' spell list. So using Wu Jen to qualify for Sacred Fist (which I don't recall if it's possible or not) gets rid of the second part.

You can use Wu Jen to qualify for Enlightened Fist, which is the arcane counterpart to sacred fist, and I am not trying to argue the prestige class part, but if you are trying to get by on UMD alone it gets up there in DCs.

The other part to this is that although it is practical to do it with enlightened fist, and somewhat less but still possible to do it with plain UMD, you are still burning a 3,325gp scroll :smalleek: that only lasts one minute flat per use, which has a moderate chance of failure as well if using UMD to do it.

monty
2009-02-11, 06:54 PM
Dragon Magazine 313- Races of Power: Str +4 Con +2 Int -2, LA +1- template.

You forgot the most important part - one size category increase if you're medium or smaller. So from medium to large, that's another +8 Strength, among other things.

PinkysBrain
2009-02-11, 07:02 PM
Of course you will need Savage Species too for actual rules for the damage of these weapons. The DMG table doesn't give any justification for extrapolation beyond collosal ... personally as a DM I'd simply cap at collosal to keep some sanity in the game.

PrismaticPIA
2009-02-11, 07:33 PM
You forgot the most important part - one size category increase if you're medium or smaller. So from medium to large, that's another +8 Strength, among other things.

Oh snap. I hadn't taken that into account. And hear was I about to quibble over the net +2 str and +2 nat armor half-ogre gives. To hell with that now. Half-Minotaur it is.

Any advice for feats? I'm definitely taking Power Attack, Shock Trooper, and Leap Attack.

Epinephrine
2009-02-11, 07:43 PM
The Suglin is another nasty weapon, though it takes two feats to wield properly - but at 2d8 damage for medium size it's about as big as the damage dice get.

metalbear
2009-02-11, 07:54 PM
I have a few more suggestions in general.
-The Knockback feat from Races of Stone. Allows you to make a free bull rush attempt against a medium or smaller enemy when you hit them with your weapon.
-Dungeon Crasher substitution levels for fighter from Dungeonscape. It allows you to deal lots of extra damage when you bull rush your enemies into a solid object. Also gives you fun bonuses on smashing objects and avoiding traps.
-The war hulk prestige class from the miniatures handbook. You trade in 10 BAB and attain 0 ranks in int., wis., and cha. based skills for a total of +2 strength a level (total of +20), boulder throwing, ability to hit a lot of enemies with one attack, and a number of other benefits.

tyckspoon
2009-02-11, 07:59 PM
Oh snap. I hadn't taken that into account. And hear was I about to quibble over the net +2 str and +2 nat armor half-ogre gives. To hell with that now. Half-Minotaur it is.

Any advice for feats? I'm definitely taking Power Attack, Shock Trooper, and Leap Attack.

The template version of Half-Ogre (as first printed in Dragon) causes a size increase as well. I assumed you were already using that one, since the other version of Half-Ogre (from Races of Destiny) is a normal race and would be incompatible with also being a Goliath. Half-Minotaur is still better, tho; the mental stat adjustments are better, you get a free feat (although mostly useful for qualifying for a few PrCs), and you get a natural weapon all for the same LA as the template Half-Ogre.

Thurbane
2009-02-11, 08:27 PM
MONKEY GRIP AND POWERFUL BUILD DO NOT STACK.

Both state "as one size larger than you are", not merely "as one size larger."
Amen to that! I can't believe this has to be mentioned as often as it does. I'm adding it to my sig! :smalltongue:

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-02-11, 08:39 PM
i would just go all out, get a spiked chain, take great cleave (and the prerequisite feats), whirlwind attack (yet again, prerequisites) and drop a bag of rats when you go into battle.

Whirlwind and Cleave specifically DO NOT STACK. To do this, you need five levels in Warmind, and it is a silly tactic anyways.

Now, if you're wanting to put the smack down...

First off, take a level in Ranger, and two in Fighter, then three in PsiWar, followed by 10 in Slayer. Then a dip in Exotic Weapon Master.

Grab Expansion. Manifest with the Two Size Categories boost. Do this with a race that has Powerful Build. You're now wielding a Colossal Weapon.

Do this with a Spiked Chain. Get Improved Trip, Power Attack, Shock Trooper, Combat Reflexes, and Robliar's Gambit.

Chains Fall, everyone dies.

SilentNight
2009-02-11, 09:04 PM
For weapon, I'm going to recommend the War Cleaver from Dragon magazine. Exotic weapon, 2d8, x3 crit with 10ft. reach, for medium. Make it out of gold (Magic of Faerun) to turn it into a heavy weapon. This increases its damage die by one size and makes it an exotic weapon (which it already is). Add this to the above and you get pretty decent damage.