I liked the reference to The Hobbit.

[Quorothorn]

"Secret gap in the dragon's underbelly scales". Well played, Giant. :biggrin:

[TheSummoner]

That part cracked me up too.

[Zeitgeist]

A funny punchline rather than drama! A nice change XD

and a very good joke at that, even if it is slightly "in".

[Fale]

Can't recall that. I need to read it again. Good book too.

[kusje]

Could someone provide some context so I can understand the reference?

[Gamiress]

Can't recall that. I need to read it again. Good book too.

You don't remember Smaug's Missing Scale? How long ago did you last read the book?

[Brauley]

I loved that book. I have read it atleast 7 times

[Tempest Fennac]

Hobbit Spoiler.

The dragon was using treasure as armour, but ther was a small part of his underbelly which was exposed. A Elven archer was able to kill the dragon by shooting it.

V was sarcastically suggesting using pastry products to kill the dragon by aiming them at a gap in the dragon's defences.

[FantomFang]

Hobbit Spoiler

It wasn't an elven archer, it was Bard, the soon-to-be leader of the human settlement. The elves weren't there yet. Just got done rereading the hobbit for the third time last week, lol.

[Gnomish Lab]

Hobbit Spoiler.

The dragon was using treasure as armour, but ther was a small part of his underbelly which was exposed. A Elven archer was able to kill the dragon by shooting it.



Actually,
A human archer.

Edit: Ninja'd

[JonestheSpy]

Of course, no bannana nut muffin could do enough damage to slay a dragon.

Now, if the gap in the armor was in the shape of a Christmas fruitcake...

[TheSummoner]

Of course, no bannana nut muffin could do enough damage to slay a dragon.

Now, if the gap in the armor was in the shape of a Christmas fruitcake...

Sir, you have offended me *glove slap*

Anyone with any knowledge of the almighty baked goods would know that Banana Nut is the most powerful of all muffins!

[Brauley]

Your kidding right? You do not know your muffin-lore!

The mostt powerful muffin of all is the........ DOUBLE CHOCOLATE CHIP WITH MACADAMIA NUT MUFFIN!!!!

[TheSummoner]

Someone's begging for a baked-goods duel...

The Double Chocolate Chip/Macadamia Nut Muffin (DCCMNM) is an flashy showoff with no substance to back it up! The humble Bananna Nut doesn't need to show off. His power is legendary.

[Trixie]

Of course, no bannana nut muffin could do enough damage to slay a dragon.

It is only a matter of high enough STR modifier :smalltongue:

[Tempest Fennac]

Sorry about getting mixed up (I didn't like the books much and it's been years since I read The Hobbit).

I just remembered a story someone mentioned months ago in the gaming section of this forum; the party was going to fight a red dragon, so they had a poisoned toffee goat made up before covering it in a goat skin. The party Bard (who suggested the idea if I remember) then used Levitation to move the goat while using Ventriloquism to make it sound like the goat was saying "eat me". The dragon fails his sense motive roll dispite the Bard's bluff check not being too good, so he eats the goat. Sadly, the person who reported this never said how it turned out due to the game ending with the dragon eating the goat (they never posted again about what happened either :smallfrown:).

[Greep]

It is only a matter of high enough STR modifier :smalltongue:

ugh, death by extremely high velocity muffins? I'd hate to have "We knew that fast food would cause heart failure in the end" on my tomb stone.

[Zevox]

Could someone provide some context so I can understand the reference?
A somewhat more detailed explanation (spoilers for The Hobbit):
The basic plotline of The Hobbit involved Bilbo, the Hobbit who had the ring at the start of LotR, going off with a group of 13 Dwarves to retake the Dwarves' old home at The Lonely Mountain, Erebor, from the Dragon that had driven them out some time ago, named Smaug.

When they got there, they had Bilbo use the ring (which they thought was just an invisibility-granting trinket then) to sneak into Smaug's lair as a scout and to steal something. While in there, Smaug smells Bilbo, and so speaks to him, but since he cannot see him, he can't attack him. During the conversation Smaug shows off how, by lying on the piles of treasure and gems he took from the Dwarves for so long, his underbelly, normally the weak spot on Dragons, has become coated with gems, gold, and such, eliminating the weakness. But Bilbo sees a spot, conveniently on his left breast, near where a human heart would be, that is exposed. When Bilbo leaves with a stolen cup, Smaug becomes enraged, and goes to attack the nearby human city, thinking them responsible. Bilbo tells the Dwarves of Smaug's weakness, and a bird that was listening to them relays it to an archer in the human city, who manages to shoot Smaug in his weak point, thereby killing him.
Zevox

[Hephaestus]

A somewhat more detailed explanation (spoilers for The Hobbit):
The basic plotline of The Hobbit involved Bilbo, the Hobbit who had the ring at the start of LotR, going off with a group of 13 Dwarves to retake the Dwarves' old home at The Lonely Mountain, Erebor, from the Dragon that had driven them out some time ago, named Smaug.

When they got there, they had Bilbo use the ring (which they thought was just an invisibility-granting trinket then) to sneak into Smaug's lair as a scout and to steal something. While in there, Smaug smells Bilbo, and so speaks to him, but since he cannot see him, he can't attack him. During the conversation Smaug shows off how, by lying on the piles of treasure and gems he took from the Dwarves for so long, his underbelly, normally the weak spot on Dragons, has become coated with gems, gold, and such, eliminating the weakness. But Bilbo sees a spot, conveniently on his left breast, near where a human heart would be, that is exposed. When Bilbo leaves with a stolen cup, Smaug becomes enraged, and goes to attack the nearby human city, thinking them responsible. Bilbo tells the Dwarves of Smaug's weakness, and a bird that was listening to them relays it to an archer in the human city, who manages to shoot Smaug in his weak point, thereby killing him.
Zevox

and it is DANGEROUS, because they almost get EATEN. (http://www.rinkworks.com/bookaminute/b/tolkien.hobbit.shtml)

[Silverraptor]

Why a Banana nut muffin? I would use Dwarven bread. That's as hard as a rock.

[Zevox]

Why a Banana nut muffin? I would use Dwarven bread. That's as hard as a rock.
And how many Elves do you know who bake Dwarven Bread? :smalltongue:

Zevox

[Llama231]

It is only a matter of high enough STR modifier :smalltongue:

And natural 20's.:smallbiggrin:

[Flickerdart]

Well, its mouth is unarmoured...let's hoe the Giant homebrews some rules for improvised poisons.

[evileeyore]

And how many Elves do you know who bake Dwarven Bread? :smalltongue:

Zevox


All of them that want Dwarven Banana-nut Battle Muffins. Duh.

[DMBlackhart]

Ok I will start by saying
1. I havent read most the thread.
2. what I have to say doesent require me to read most of it
3. If anything I say is stupid I reserve the right to ignorance on the account of bliss.

Anywho... If my knowledge about reptiles ( I am assuming dragons are reptilian) then the underbelly ( which is where smaugs missing scale was no? ) doesent commonly have scales... I dont think. so unless im REALLY missing something, that makes almost no sense to me.

[The Minx]

Ok I will start by saying
1. I havent read most the thread.
2. what I have to say doesent require me to read most of it
3. If anything I say is stupid I reserve the right to ignorance on the account of bliss.

Anywho... If my knowledge about reptiles ( I am assuming dragons are reptilian) then the underbelly ( which is where smaugs missing scale was no? ) doesent commonly have scales... I dont think. so unless im REALLY missing something, that makes almost no sense to me.

Smaug used gems studded into his hide to shield himself on the belly.

Bard the Bowman used an extra special item of ammo, the Black Arrow to deliver the fatal shot. Apparently this enchanted item was forged by the Dwarfs in a bygone age and always eventually found its way back to its owner.

[Innis Cabal]

Ok I will start by saying
1. I havent read most the thread.
2. what I have to say doesent require me to read most of it
3. If anything I say is stupid I reserve the right to ignorance on the account of bliss.

Anywho... If my knowledge about reptiles ( I am assuming dragons are reptilian) then the underbelly ( which is where smaugs missing scale was no? ) doesent commonly have scales... I dont think. so unless im REALLY missing something, that makes almost no sense to me.

Except Dragons arn't reptiles.

[Optimystik]

Smaug's underbelly was soft, but nothing indicates that D&D dragons have the same weakness. From Draconomicon: Dragons' entire bodies are covered in scales, with the scales on the underbelly being finer and greater in number but just as durable as the ones on the back and sides.

More importantly in our case, Vaarsuvius saw no weak spots from his very singular perspective of being beneath a dragon, and we can assume that his keen elven senses would have been likely to spot such an aperture even with his 'fatigue' playing a factor.

[Jural]

I think V actually has solved the problem, and the posters in this thread have helped me see it!

The dragon is allergic to nuts. V's mate just needs to use the correct nut (+4 or higher cold iron cashew, I believe) and the dragon will keel over dead after a muffin loaded with the nut is thrown into her mouth

If this actually happens, I win this thread

[dragoncmd]

Your kidding right? You do not know your muffin-lore!

The mostt powerful muffin of all is the........ DOUBLE CHOCOLATE CHIP WITH MACADAMIA NUT MUFFIN!!!!

This man is well versed in his baking!

[Teron]

Reptiles do, in fact, have scales on their bellies. I find it strange that anyone could think otherwise. You must have seen a snake or a lizard at some point in your life, n'est-ce pas?

[DMBlackhart]

I have seen many snakes and lizards with yello-ish soft under bellies. of which none resembled scales, of course it wasent flesh-like exactly either.

Even so isent the underbelly already soft enough to stab through without a missing "scale" ?

[DMBlackhart]

Except Dragons arn't reptiles.

Oh, could have fooled me:smallbiggrin:

[TheSummoner]

This may not be true for OotS dragons, but real world lizards (and Smaug) do have scales on their bellys, however the area is softer than say... their backs. The belly scales offer much less protection and make the area more vulnerable to attack. Smaug stumbled upon a solution when some of his treasure got stuck there from laying on it so much, but missed a small area.

[Corwin Weber]

This may not be true for OotS dragons, but real world lizards (and Smaug) do have scales on their bellys, however the area is softer than say... their backs. The belly scales offer much less protection and make the area more vulnerable to attack. Smaug stumbled upon a solution when some of his treasure got stuck there from laying on it so much, but missed a small area.

Dungeons and Dragons typically portrays dragons as having an articulated row of oversized scales along their bellies. Very strong armor. No particular help here. Real world reptiles do protect their bellies, yes. The abdomen is usually a weak point on reptiles, mammals, birds, and just about any other vertebrate. (And a number of invertebrates, for that matter.) However, while this is a somewhat vulnerable spot.... we also have to remember (as any cat owner can tell you) that 'that's the end with the claws.'

:D

[Spiky]

A somewhat more detailed explanation (spoilers for The Hobbit):
The basic plotline of The Hobbit involved Bilbo, the Hobbit who had the ring at the start of LotR, going off with a group of 13 Dwarves to retake the Dwarves' old home at The Lonely Mountain, Erebor, from the Dragon that had driven them out some time ago, named Smaug.

When they got there, they had Bilbo use the ring (which they thought was just an invisibility-granting trinket then) to sneak into Smaug's lair as a scout and to steal something. While in there, Smaug smells Bilbo, and so speaks to him, but since he cannot see him, he can't attack him. During the conversation Smaug shows off how, by lying on the piles of treasure and gems he took from the Dwarves for so long, his underbelly, normally the weak spot on Dragons, has become coated with gems, gold, and such, eliminating the weakness. But Bilbo sees a spot, conveniently on his left breast, near where a human heart would be, that is exposed. When Bilbo leaves with a stolen cup, Smaug becomes enraged, and goes to attack the nearby human city, thinking them responsible. Bilbo tells the Dwarves of Smaug's weakness, and a bird that was listening to them relays it to an archer in the human city, who manages to shoot Smaug in his weak point, thereby killing him.
Zevox

Umm, the heart is not on the left side of the body. Do people still believe that? Maybe in dragons.

[nolron]

Umm, the heart is not on the left side of the body. Do people still believe that? Maybe in dragons.
More or less centered, only slightly leaning towards the left side, isn't it?

[Spiky]

I'm not old enough to know (I'd have to be what, 500? 3000?), but I assume the aortic arch misled people. It is on the left. Combined with the sternum blocking direct access, it is easier to hear/feel the heartbeat on the left. But yes, dead center in actuality.

I've always found such rituals as the USA flag salute quite bizarre, as there simply isn't a heart over there.

[Rotipher]

Correct: it's in the center, although the left side is far stronger and therefore beats a bit louder.

For a reptile, it might be a bit closer to the neck than in a mammal, but it should still be in the middle.

Sorry, Bard old boy, but you shot Smaug in the lung. Just as fatal, but not quite as big a boost to your forest-cred as a heart shot. :smallsmile:

[quick_comment]

The heart is in the center, but the left side is much large and more muscular, leading to the impression that it is offset to the left.