What's the best race to be a Paladin?

[Darkmage]

So my D&D group's started a new campaign, well, will be on Sunday here in Australia.

I'm playing a Elven Paladin, my friend whose dad is the DM and him rolled up my character and my friend keeps saying my Paladin's kinda sucky (I dunno why, I haven't seen it yet), we're all first level characters.

In your opinions, what's the best race to play a Paladin?

[arguskos]

So my D&D group's started a new campaign, well, will be on Sunday here in Australia.

I'm playing a Elven Paladin, my friend whose dad is the DM and him rolled up my character and my friend keeps saying my Paladin's kinda sucky (I dunno why, I haven't seen it yet), we're all first level characters.

In your opinions, what's the best race to play a Paladin?
Personally? Hellbred (Fiendish Codex 2). The roleplaying incentive is so powerful I can TASTE it. It's pretty awesome. I really love the idea of a race that wants to restore his good name with the gods, and does so by becoming a physical manifestation of his sins, so he can atone. Just... so flavorful and tasty!!

EDIT: this is from a 3.5 perspective. Shoulda probably noted that. :smallwink:

[KKL]

Can't go wrong with Human.

[cupkeyk]

What edition is it?

for 3.5 I like small paladins, so they can take their mounts inside dungeon crawls and abuse the hell out of spirited charge. a dire hawk is a medium flying mount for a small paladin.

in 4e, I like half elf paladins because their abilities synergise with a laser paladin. Dragonborn are better melee paladins.

ether edition, elves don't so much suck as paladins as they don't synergise with the class.

[Tempest Fennac]

LA 0 Assimars are steriotypical, but they are good mechanically: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a (the fact that Hellbreds have a Con penalty could be a problem depending on how you generate your stats).

[Keld Denar]

Forgotten Realms has the Gold Dwarf, which is similar in every way to a standard Shield Dwarf except that it exchanges the CHA penalty for a DEX penalty. This makes it more appealing to the CHA driven Paladin.

And for power, take a look at this. Uses almost exclusively Complete Warrior, Complete Divine, and Complete Champion, and is a pretty kickass holy smiter if I ever made one.

Paladin5/Fighter2/DivineCrusader (CDivine)2/OrdainedChampion(CChamp)4/DivineCrusader+7

Pal 1 - Law Devotion (CChamp), Improved Init (B)
Pal 2 -
Pal 3 - Knowledge Devotion (CChamp)
Pal 4 -
Pal 5 - (Charging Smite ACF PHBII)
Ftr 1 - Power Attack (F) Divine Might (CWarrior)
Ftr 2 - Weapon Focus: Longsword (F)
DC 1 -
DC 2 - Awesome Smite (CChamp)
OC 1-
OC 2-
OC 3- Holy Warrior (Reserve Feat, CChamp)
OC 4 -
DC 3 -
DC 4 - Practiced Spellcaster (Divine Crusader) (CDivine)
DC 5 -
DC 6 -
DC 7 - Extra Turning
DC 8 -
DC 9 -


Lots of cha driven synergy and 9th level spellcasting on top of great defenses and offenses.

[LibraryOgre]

Paladins may only be humans.

(This message brought to you by those who ask you to mention an edition in your post)

[arguskos]

Paladins may only be humans.

(This message brought to you by those who ask you to mention an edition in your post)
Actually, was a reason for this ever given in the older editions? It never made much sense that a halfling couldn't pick up the sword for the cause of Light. :smallconfused:

[Spiryt]

Actually, was a reason for this ever given in the older editions? It never made much sense that a halfling couldn't pick up the sword for the cause of Light. :smallconfused:

I guess that Paladin orders were purely human organizations.

[Atamasama]

Actually, was a reason for this ever given in the older editions? It never made much sense that a halfling couldn't pick up the sword for the cause of Light. :smallconfused:
From a gameplay perspective, 2nd edition restricted paladins to humans to throw humans a bone. Demihumans got all kinds of cool abilities with minimal penalties. The level limits were another attempt to make up for it, but I doubt many people used those optional rules (seriously, are you supposed to retire your elf because he hit level 9?).

From a "lore" perspective, I'd assume that humans are given preference from the Gods, because they are typically the most populous of the races and the dominant race overall. They are the "chosen" race.

[AslanCross]

Human is always good.
Unless you take the racial substitution levels from Races of the Wild and focus on archery, I don't recommend elf. The CON penalty is going to make things difficult for you in melee.
The LA 0 Aasimar is pretty good.

If you're playing 4E and want to focus on melee, I'd recommend Dragonborn. Otherwise, Half-Elf.

[LibraryOgre]

Actually, was a reason for this ever given in the older editions? It never made much sense that a halfling couldn't pick up the sword for the cause of Light. :smallconfused:

As mentioned below, it was, in theory, a special ability of humans. As special abilities go, however, it sucks... the ability to play one of the most restrictive classes in the game is not a huge benefit, especially if you don't roll high enough to qualify, or want to play something else.

[InaVegt]

It also allowed humans to play the Holy Warrior archetype without dual classing, because, after all, human holy warriors are a common fantasy archetype.

Dwarves, Gnomes, and Half-elves could play something that is fluff-wise very similar to the paladin, and, IMHO, mechanically much more attractive. A cleric/fighter multiclass.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Human is always a strong choice, due to the bonus feat and extra skill points

The +0 LA Assimar is good because of the +2 Cha bonus, which helps your saves

Strongheart Halfling is good if you want to be a Small paladin so you can ride your mount through hallways (Onward, Ambrosius!), but keep the bonus feat

Dwarf is a poor choice due to Cha penalty, unless you take the Gold Dwarf subrace which replaces the Cha penalty with a Dex penalty. Since you're likely to be sporting Mithral Full Plate, you don't need a Dex mod over +3 anyways, which can be done with Gloves if necessary.

[Kaihaku]

In your opinions, what's the best race to play a Paladin?

The best race to play is whichever race you enjoy playing.

[Aron Times]

In 4E, drow and tieflings make good paladins. Tieflings in particular benefit greatly from a flaming weapon thanks to Hellfire Blood.

Once the PHB2 is released, though, I think the deva (aasimar) will be the best paladin race.

[holywhippet]

From a "lore" perspective, I'd assume that humans are given preference from the Gods, because they are typically the most populous of the races and the dominant race overall. They are the "chosen" race.

I think you mean the most populous of the "civilized" races. Odds are good that races like the goblins would outnumber the humans.

[Mando Knight]

In 4E, drow and tieflings make good paladins. Tieflings in particular benefit greatly from a flaming weapon thanks to Hellfire Blood.

Once the PHB2 is released, though, I think the deva (aasimar) will be the best paladin race.

Actually, IIRC, the deva is an Int/Wis race, not so useful for the Str/Cha/Wis Paladin. The best Paladins right now are Dragonborn for their high Surge values and bonuses to both attack stats (Str & Cha); and Longtooth Shifters for their bonus to both an attack stat (Str) and the secondary stat (Wis).

However, any race that has a bonus to Strength, Wisdom, and/or Charisma is a viable "optimized" Paladin. This includes most races, with the only significant exceptions that come to mind are Githyanki (still good for high HP), Kobolds (good for HP and Dex-dependent feats) and Eladrin & Shadar-Kai (still good for Dex-dependent feats). Thus, Dwarves are good (higher Con for HP, higher Wis for effects), Half-Elves and Hobgoblins are good (higher Con for HP, higher Cha for attacks), Dex/Cha races (Goblin, Halfling, Drow) are good when using high-Dex weapons (light and heavy blades), Int/Cha races are OK (mostly for their boost to Charisma), Bugbears are good for Heavy Blade Opportunity...

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I think you mean the most populous of the "civilized" races. Odds are good that races like the goblins would outnumber the humans.

I dunno... the Humans don't have dozens of major races all bent on exterminating them, and they almost certainly have more territory to spread out in, so I'd say that on an absolute scale, Humans outnumber Goblins. It's just that locally, areas of high Goblin populations tend to also be areas of low Human population.

[InaVegt]

I dunno... the Humans don't have dozens of major races all bent on exterminating them, and they almost certainly have more territory to spread out in, so I'd say that on an absolute scale, Humans outnumber Goblins. It's just that locally, areas of high Goblin populations tend to also be areas of low Human population.

Kobolds, Orcs, Goblinoids.

Sure, not dozens, but the only people who wish to exterminate goblinoids are Humans, Elves, Dwarves, Gnomes, and Halflings. And unlike Elves, Dwarves, and Gnomes, Goblins have fast reproduction (Faster than humans and halflings even, I believe.)

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Kobolds, Orcs, Goblinoids.

Sure, not dozens, but the only people who wish to exterminate goblinoids are Humans, Elves, Dwarves, Gnomes, and Halflings. And unlike Elves, Dwarves, and Gnomes, Goblins have fast reproduction (Faster than humans and halflings even, I believe.)

True, but while Goblinoids have faster reproduction rate, they also are even more aggressive than Humans, and often kill each other off, wheras the Humans of the D&D world (mostly) try to work together, along with the other races that you can play in Core. So instead of every tribe of your own race ready to slaughter you if they think they can get away with it, you actually have a support group, so more Humans reach physical maturity and reproduce than Goblins, by sheer attrition.

[Jayabalard]

the only people who wish to exterminate goblinoids are Humans, Elves, Dwarves, Gnomes, and Halflings. You left out giants, ogres, orcs, goblins, hobgoblins, kobolds, zombies, trolls, lizardmen, vampires, manticore, dragons, ilithid, dryads, anthropomorphic animals, theriomorphs, Carbosilicate amorphs, Tausennigan Ob'Enn, F'sherl-Ganni, and so on. Everything wants to kill goblinoids

[InaVegt]

You left out giants, ogres, orcs, goblins, hobgoblins, kobolds, zombies, trolls, lizardmen, vampires, manticore, dragons, ilithid, dryads, anthropomorphic animals, theriomorphs, Carbosilicate amorphs, Tausennigan Ob'Enn, F'sherl-Ganni, and so on. Everything wants to kill goblinoids

No, not really.

Most races couldn't care less about goblinoids, or actively use them as tools.

It's just that the 'civilised' races are so racist that they seek to exterminate all of goblinkind, rather than the ones that do harm.

[Jayabalard]

It's just that the 'civilised' races are so racist that they seek to exterminate all of goblinkind, rather than the ones that do harm.Nope; you've got that pretty much completely backwards. The civilized races don't bother with the goblins except when defending themselves, and the less than civilized races exterminate them for fun, food, or profit (depending on the race).

[Knaight]

Carbosilicate amorphs, Tausennigan Ob'Enn, F'sherl-Ganni, and so on.
Schlock Mercenary much?

[Shalizar]

In my honest opinion as long as you dont have a character who is completely opposite of what a paladin is, a.k.a. Drow or Kobold, you should be fine, there is no better race, until you get into level adjustments above +1. Far as I know I dont know of any race which is exceptional good for Paladins. Elves are fine as a Paladin, again personally I dont like Paladins because I love to play crazy characters which everyone hates.... I guess I will be playing a Paladin in my next game I play in.

[Vexxation]

again personally I dont like Paladins because I love to play crazy characters which everyone hates....

I'm not really seeing the difference there :smallbiggrin:

[MeklorIlavator]

I'm not really seeing the difference there :smallbiggrin:

Well, people hate paladins 'cause they're often anal. Crazy people are just hard to get along with.

[chiasaur11]

In my honest opinion as long as you dont have a character who is completely opposite of what a paladin is, a.k.a. Drow or Kobold, you should be fine, there is no better race, until you get into level adjustments above +1. Far as I know I dont know of any race which is exceptional good for Paladins. Elves are fine as a Paladin, again personally I dont like Paladins because I love to play crazy characters which everyone hates.... I guess I will be playing a Paladin in my next game I play in.

Kobolds as the anti Paladins?

They're dedicated and self sacrificing, and nowhere near always chaotic evil.

What rules them out?

[MeklorIlavator]

Nothing really, just prejudice. I mean, there's been an official Succubus Paladin, so anything is possible.