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View Full Version : Feat Comparison: Intimidating Strike vs. Daunting Presence



Zaq
2009-02-12, 02:46 PM
Intimidating Strike (from PHB2) and Daunting Presence (from Libris Mortis) seem to serve a similar combat role (make an opponent shaken for a long time), but I can't figure out which one works better for a Charisma-heavy debuffer (i.e. a Hexblade), particularly at low levels. I'm not interested in stacking fear effects, making the enemy frightened or panicked... I've done that in the past, and while it's fun, it tends to make the GM angry and have him throw fear-immune enemies at you. This is more just for penalties than for fear domination. (Hence why I don't have Dreadful Wrath, Imperious Command, or similar feats.)

Intimidating Strike:
Pros:
-Can deliver an attack with it, so you don't have to sacrifice (as much) damage to use it
-Gives a bonus to your Intimidate check, which can be boosted pretty high
-The penalty/bonus are chosen like Power Attack, so you can adjust the risk and reward according to the situation
Cons:
-Must be in melee range
-Intimidate uses that wonky "modified level check" nonsense, so other debuffs usually won't make them more susceptible to it, and enemies with high HD are harder to intimidate
-You have to take a penalty to your attack for it to work, so it can be hard to use against dodgy enemies

Daunting Presence:
Pros:
-Can be used at range
-Uses a Will save, so other debuffs will soften the target up first
Cons:
-Can't use as part of an attack, lowering potential damage
-The likelihood of it working depends mostly on the enemy (their save bonus) rather than on me (my Intimidate score or etc.)

Either one, if successful, will have mostly the same effect, but the way they go about doing it is different. I guess the big question is, what's more reliable, a Will save or an Intimidate check?

Of course, here's a question... can you combine Intimidating Strike with other attack options, like Power Attack? How about on a charge? The answers to those might make a difference.

Any thoughts as to which of these feats is more useful and reliable?

Person_Man
2009-02-12, 03:02 PM
Both suck. Consider Frightful Presence (Draconomicon). It gives you a fear aura that activates automatically whenever you attack. It doesn't stack with itself though, so you can make your enemy Shaken without stacking fear effects. There are also several different Fear inducing magic items, like the Subjugating weapon enhancement from Heroes of Battle.

You also might want to consider Netherese Battle Curse (www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050202a), Brutal Strike, and Combat Panache, which also debuff your enemy without pushing the auto-win button.

Zaq
2009-02-12, 03:09 PM
Hmmm. When I say "low level," I mean "REALLY low level," as in levels 1-3. I've looked into other Frightful Presence effects on other characters, but the HD limit is crippling. (Nine times out of ten, if they have less HD than you, you don't NEED to debuff them.) I intend to take Brutal Strike once I hit level 6, but that's a looooong way away from level 1. (Could you combine Brutal Strike with Intimidating Strike? Oh, or with Netherese Battle Curse? Hmmmm.) Netherese Battle Curse looks awesome once I get any number of spells slots to speak of, but again, as a super-low-level Hexblade that's not really applicable.

Can you elaborate why you feel both suck?

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-02-12, 03:26 PM
Can you elaborate why you feel both suck?Actions are worth more than anything at most levels. Taking an action(either actively, or by making you less likely to hit at levels when you can't afford a -1), is generally worse than something that's less powerful, but is either a Swift, Move, or automatic action.

Zaq
2009-02-12, 05:36 PM
I see what you mean, but would that make an argument in favor of Intimidating Strike, since it's part of an attack? Could you combine an Intimidating Strike with other attack-changers, such as Power Attack (and thus Brutal Strike) or Netherese Battle Curse? That would make for efficiency right there, and push it above Daunting Presence in usefulness at higher levels.

Person_Man
2009-02-12, 07:59 PM
Just using a mundane full attack action at 6th level gives you 2 attacks. By 11th level it's 3. And so on. And that's not counting extra attacks from a Speed effect, natural weapons, two weapon fighting, whatever.

But using Intimidating Strike is a Standard Action, which allows you to make a single attack. No matter what level you are and no mater how many attacks you can make, you only make a single attack. So your overall damage output will be exponentially lower. Daunting Presence is even worse, in that it doesn't even allow you to make an attack.

So as a general rule, if you are playing a melee class look for feats and class abilities that can be applied to every attack, and avoid feats and class abilities that require a Standard Action (Unless its very powerful. For example, half of the maneuvers in the Tome of Battle are Standard Actions, and some are very potent for the ECL that you can attain them at).