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View Full Version : Well, we did it! Scratch one Demon Lord of Undeath =D



DragonBaneDM
2009-02-13, 01:39 AM
Hello there! My good friend 7th lvl scrub and I first asked for assistance with the matter of beating Orcus in this thread:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101447&highlight=kill+Orcus

And well, we did it. We found 7 or so ways to deny Orcus when he tried to kill the Legendary General, and ways around every one of his powers, heck, I even had a plan to steal his Wand! It truly was beautiful to watch the cheapest party in the world at work. We'll post our strategy in full play-by-play if anyone wants us to.

Orcus didn't actually die, but our DM got so upset with us he just gave up. Really, we figured out it wasn't all that fun since it took all the challenge out of fighting the most powerful non-diety in the game...

So, we'd like to thank all of those who gave us worthwhile advice.

And to those of you who were naysayers the whole way through:

Neener-neener =P

BobVosh
2009-02-13, 02:02 AM
Hackers.

And it should have been fun, obviously you didn't practice the perfect giggle to annoy your DM.

Divine Comedy
2009-02-13, 02:06 AM
Your DM seems very poor indeed if he is upset over not getting to slaughter you horribly.

Ravens_cry
2009-02-13, 02:07 AM
*grabs popcorn with extra cheese*
Ooh, my gamer sense is tingling. I smell a great gamer story coming up!

TheCountAlucard
2009-02-13, 02:17 PM
I'm assuming this is 4th edition, but just to be safe, you might want to include that in your post...

Oslecamo
2009-02-13, 02:48 PM
Your DM seems very poor indeed if he is upset over not getting to slaughter you horribly.

Where's the joy of being a DM if your players are metagaming like there's no tomorrow and rape the biggest baddest monster the book offers you, denying all it's cool tricks and slowly wearing him down?

Yes, the monsters are suposed to lose, but the party is suposed to sweat for that, not just find the "I win button" beforehand and then going into autopilot mode during battle.

It's this kind of atitude that kills D&D reputation. Victory at all costs, no matter how ridiculous it is that aparently the entire universe knows Orcus inside out and all his tricks. Some players like this. DMs hate it.

Personally, if it was me, I would have swapped Orcus stats for any other high level monstruosity as soon as I realized how metagaming my players were. What, you tought Orcus just had half a dozen tricks? Think again.

Asbestos
2009-02-13, 03:57 PM
Where's the joy of being a DM if your players are metagaming like there's no tomorrow and rape the biggest baddest monster the book offers you, denying all it's cool tricks and slowly wearing him down?

Yes, the monsters are suposed to lose, but the party is suposed to sweat for that, not just find the "I win button" beforehand and then going into autopilot mode during battle.

It's this kind of atitude that kills D&D reputation. Victory at all costs, no matter how ridiculous it is that aparently the entire universe knows Orcus inside out and all his tricks. Some players like this. DMs hate it.

Personally, if it was me, I would have swapped Orcus stats for any other high level monstruosity as soon as I realized how metagaming my players were. What, you tought Orcus just had half a dozen tricks? Think again.

Ordinarily, I would totally agree. But since the DM announced ahead of time that they'd be having a one-off against Orcus... he can't really expect anything beyond situational optimization.

Edit: Out of curiosity, how were the Vestiges/Atropals/Orcus arranged? If they were all in neat little clumps, your DM is doing it wrong (and by 'it' I mean killing you)

7th lvl scrub
2009-02-14, 07:26 PM
Ordinarily, I would totally agree. But since the DM announced ahead of time that they'd be having a one-off against Orcus... he can't really expect anything beyond situational optimization.

Edit: Out of curiosity, how were the Vestiges/Atropals/Orcus arranged? If they were all in neat little clumps, your DM is doing it wrong (and by 'it' I mean killing you)

Orcus was surrounded by myself (Legendary General), the Bugbear Rogue and the Fighter (Dragonbane DM), The Rogue was able to hit him with Knockout, and then follow it up with Assassin's Point, and even got off all 5 hits on Blade Cascade. At one point the Rogue was even able to dominate Orcus, thanks to his Mindiron Vambraces. I had Lead the Attack, Precision Stance, and Stand Invincible active so we weren't missing much, nor were we taking that much damage. I was able to make it so that most of the vestiges were taken out by the Wizard, and so that the Atropals were effectively locked down by the Wizard and the melee Cleric, who had a Sunblade so every turn he was shutting down the Atropals' aura. It was actually way, way, way, way too easy.

Thing was I still had at least two of my Encounters powers left to use, and the only Utility I had used was Own the Battlefield. I'm pretty sure that the rest of the party was in a similar situation. Orcus was also bloodied when the DM became fed up with our shenanigans.

FinalJustice
2009-02-14, 07:48 PM
Quoting some motivational out there: "Overkill, so rarely necessary, so often fun". Who doesn't love some?

Tengu_temp
2009-02-14, 09:22 PM
It's this kind of atitude that kills D&D reputation. Victory at all costs, no matter how ridiculous it is that aparently the entire universe knows Orcus inside out and all his tricks. Some players like this. DMs hate it.


Not me - unless I want the enemy to survive, I like when players defeat my monsters effortlessly. As long as they look cool doing it, instead of exploiting loopholes, but using good strategy counts as the former, not the latter.

Aron Times
2009-02-15, 12:04 AM
The current record for killing Orcus in the CharOp board is by a level 14 wizard.

With this in mind, the OP's tactics are quite acceptable.

Tengu_temp
2009-02-15, 12:22 AM
How'd he achieve that? Links?

Oslecamo
2009-02-15, 09:00 PM
Not me - unless I want the enemy to survive, I like when players defeat my monsters effortlessly. As long as they look cool doing it, instead of exploiting loopholes, but using good strategy counts as the former, not the latter.

They finded a loophole wich makes the party unkillable by any of orcus powers. The battle was won from the start. Where's the coolnes in killing something defenseless?

Nahal
2009-02-15, 09:15 PM
I dunno, in this case I'd prolly come down on the side of the players. Throwing the biggest, baddest EG at the players is more or less throwing down the gauntlet, and I have to feel like there's no small amount of tactical work involved regardless of how you analyze his powers beforehand.

IG, these are epic-level characters with the means to research the demon lord and come up with at least a basic understanding of his powers. If he's getting completely pwned, you can always port in an exarch or two to make the fight more interesting...