...and when all seemed lost, V's family was saved by...[SPOILER] [Archive]

Hawk7915

2009-02-13, 03:03 AM

Wow, my very own crazy theory thread. I am finally one of "those people" :smallamused:.
So, with the Order broken and the Sapphire Guard out to sea, there aren't many groups or individuals left in the world (that we or V know of, at least) that pose a credible threat to a friggin' Ancient Black Dragon with Sorcerer Levels. Team Evil is one group; Xykon is a threat by himself and with Redcloak, Tsukiko, and a dozen wights it would be an easy fight. This was a theory in a thread below: the imp could teleport "non-living" material (Xykon) to save the kids. Alternatively, I think Tsukiko has cast teleport, so there's another option. Two problems there though:
- 1: Team evil has almost no motivation to help V. Xykon watches people die for fun. It amuses him. They're team evil for a reason.
-2: Even if V offered info on the gates (a tempting offer for Redcloak at least), there is the problem of the Cloister spell, and how it prevents all non-summoning attempts to breach it or reach people affected by it, including teleport and planeshift. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0532.html)

So no Team Evil...gosh, the kids must be screwed! ABD will devour them, feet first! Wait...there is one other group...a group that could pose a considerable threat even to a dragon...one that we have not seen for some time, but who shows up every arc so far...
The Linear Guild. Why would they help? Same reason as Red: gate information. But also for an offer of V's assistance...nothing would be more delicious to Nale, I think, than to get a 'Stick member onto his team. Also, Sabine thinks that The elf is alright (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0385.html), which has to count for something.

How would they help? Well, Thog, Nale, and Sabine are a pretty decent team...bad enough that the Order beats them regularly, but with Quarr and V (albeit V without any 6th or 7th level spells), it might be close at least. How would they get to the battlefield though? Well, recall that once per day in great emergencies, Sabine can Cast Plane Shift (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0380.html). From there, hop a ride with a friendly demon and POOF! Elven Homelands!
So what do you guys think? Ramblings of a sleep deprived madman, or the beginnings of a new future psychic? :smallbiggrin:

Brauley

2009-02-13, 03:06 AM

Thog want puppy

Optimystik

2009-02-13, 03:09 AM

I will say this for your theory: If V's mate can make limitless ice cream, his safety is assured.

Oh, come on. It can't be that different from baking.

Wraithfighter

2009-02-13, 03:10 AM

Ramblings of a sleep deprived madman

This.

Oh, and it does make some sense :).

It should be noted that V has no idea where the Linear guild is, that they're interested in the Gates, and many of the issues that affect the Azurites lending aid would also affect the linears.

lord_khaine

2009-02-13, 03:31 AM

Wow, my very own crazy theory thread. I am finally one of "those people" .
So, with the Order broken and the Sapphire Guard out to sea, there aren't many groups or individuals left in the world (that we or V know of, at least) that pose a credible threat to a friggin' Ancient Black Dragon with Sorcerer Levels. Team Evil is one group; Xykon is a threat by himself and with Redcloak, Tsukiko, and a dozen wights it would be an easy fight.

actualy, Xykon alone wont stand a much bigger chance against the dragon, and even with redcloak and Tsukiko helping it would only mean they had an actual chance of winning.

Gort

2009-02-13, 04:41 AM

The obvious solution is one of the imps extraplanar contacts. V is about to lose his family and he may well be ready to bargain now when he wasn't before.

Sabine has reported the threat to this world as well. They might even just be prepared to help. Of course they will want their pound of flesh too.

:smallsmile:

Sotris

2009-02-13, 04:53 AM

I get the feeling that saving V's family will involve no magic whatsoever- at least not on V's part. Having said that, I have no idea how it wil be done- If it's done at all.

Cúchulainn

2009-02-13, 05:32 AM

I'd be extremely surprised if anything V can do will directly stop the dragon at this point, considering the spell was Greater Teleport the dragon is already deciding which set of elven feet look most delicious to start with. The only believable thing that could happen would be when the dragon directly threatens an elf on elven land the local wizard picks up on it and sounds the alarm. The dragon said she been there twice already for observation, third times the charm? There could be druids as well or something that were just observing until the dragon got hostile, from the looks of it the cottage is in or near woods and it being, again, elven land, they might have a sort of natural surveillance. All the trees are connected and all that.

Plus I wouldn't mind seeing more of Aarindarius or other cool elven defenders again.

Plus if V realizes he can't do anything he might go insane and that could be amusing.

Charity322

2009-02-13, 07:43 AM

Xykon and Redcloak were getting their asses handed to them by that silver dragon before that hobgoblin got a lucky hit.

Personally I reckon that if V's family die then it actually gives V a motivation to say the wrong 4 words to gain ultimate power. Before he/she has always been too rational to let him/herself be seduced or tricked but if V's family die then V could be driven crazy by grief and lack of sleep.

Tingel

2009-02-13, 08:07 AM

How can there possibly be enough time for any of this to happen when the dragon has already arrived at the house of his victims? Even if we ignore all aspects of 'logistics', the necessary negotiations would require far too much time. The family of Vaarsuvius would be dead before he could have explained even the basics of the situation to the Linear Guild.

Aimbot

2009-02-13, 08:38 AM

V casts fireball on herself, has the imp send piece of her to ranking elven cleric with a sticky note saying

Rez plz kthx
-V

BRC

2009-02-13, 08:43 AM

Nah, V's mate has been cheating on V with an epic level Ranger or Wizard...Or Both!

The Neoclassic

2009-02-13, 08:50 AM

Actually, this theory seems one of the more plausible ones to me. Why?

I don't think that Rich Burlew will let this get so melodrama-y that he'll let the kids get eaten and soul bound by a dragon.
The options for saving V's family are few.
It appears that the imp will be crucial in (at least) the next few comics involving V.
The imp has few useful powers from what we know, except for his teleportation capability.
The Linear Guild would likely not kill the imp on sight.
Nale is fairly smart and would likely see this as a fascinating opportunity.

Of course, Nale might keep the kids hostage until V agrees to join the Linear Guild or something like that.

Cúchulainn

2009-02-13, 09:10 AM

Imp: Hey! Gosh thank goodness I found you, a wizard you met once or twice needs you to save his family.
Nale: Interesting, and what would I get from this?
Imp: Well I'm not really authorized to discuss exact terms of payment but if you could ju-AAAAH!!!!

DMBlackhart

2009-02-13, 09:47 AM

What about the shadow thing under the hello kitty umberella?

I know, seems like a highly unlikely thing. But unlike everything else, it is gaurenteed to be able to slaughter a ADB.

pendell

2009-02-13, 09:48 AM

How about this:

V's mate saves the day with her mad baking skillz by

A) Whipping up some artifact-level confection (is there such a thing in the source book?)
B) Dipping the kids in some kind of poison or what not so the dragon either can't eat them without risking poisoning or would have very bad taste.
C) Forgotten Realms FTW! Challenge the dragon to a Feint of Honor. Weapons are cooking utensils, and it's a bakeoff. Tune in next entry for Iron Chef: OOTS.
D) Bakes up a Sorcerer Fruit Pie who uses his magic to save the day. Alternately, feeds the yummy ,refreshing pie to the dragon.

ISTR there was a Mount Nevermind solo campaign book back in AD&D days where you played an NPC baker drafted to be the general of the Gnomes to defend Mount Nevermind from the dragon armies. You had to go from room to room in the mountain (every page constituted a day; you had 60 days. At the end of that time you took all the forces and equipment you had gathered (which included a pie throwing contraption and numerous other baking puns) then had a rolloff vs. the invading dragon army. It wasn't very popular back in the day, but *I* liked it.

Regardless of what winds up happening, I'll wager there's a perfectly good nonmagical solution that V will pointedly ignore, to the peril of zir soul and the souls of zir children.

ETA: found the book! (http://www.waynesbooks.com/DragonlanceAccessories.html) Started new thread on it.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Roderick_BR

2009-02-13, 10:11 AM

I don't think the people the OP mentioned could help cause they don't know about the dragon, nor about V's family, and it's likely that they won't even get near that part of the world, unless some INCREDIBLE coincidence happens.
"Hey, shouldn't we be after the gates? What are we doing in an elven town?"
"Try to hire the local mages to divine something for us? Hey, look, a black dragon headed that way. Hmm, the elves sure sound worried..."

The Neoclassic

2009-02-13, 10:27 AM

I don't think the people the OP mentioned could help cause they don't know about the dragon, nor about V's family, and it's likely that they won't even get near that part of the world, unless some INCREDIBLE coincidence happens.

Hence what the imp is for...

As far as there not being enough time to stop the dragon, if we go by what's actually realistic, by the end of Shoot the Messenger, V's family has probably already been eaten, so everything is a moot point.

The_Void

2009-02-13, 11:14 AM

What about the shadow thing under the hello kitty umberella?

I know, seems like a highly unlikely thing. But unlike everything else, it is gaurenteed to be able to slaughter a ADB.

Actually, I could seriously see that happening for several reasons.

a) The MitD, other than working for Team Evil, is pretty much a good guy. He wouldn't want little kids getting eaten and soulbound.
b) Also, if the MitD was reluctant, he could be convinced by O-chul.
c) Like you say, he's easily powerful enough to defeat the dragon.
d) There may have been a bit of foreshadowing earlier on in the comic, where the MitD explicitly states that he hates eating children.

Tingel

2009-02-13, 11:36 AM

Actually, I could seriously see that happening for several reasons.

a) The MitD, other than working for Team Evil, is pretty much a good guy. He wouldn't want little kids getting eaten and soulbound.
b) Also, if the MitD was reluctant, he could be convinced by O-chul.
c) Like you say, he's easily powerful enough to defeat the dragon.
d) There may have been a bit of foreshadowing earlier on in the comic, where the MitD explicitly states that he hates eating children.

a)+d) The monster doesn't like eating children because of their taste, not because he cares for them in the slightest. Otherwise he probably wouldn't dispose of living babies in the dumpster, which is either very evil or completely oblivious to the moral implications (I suspect the latter).

b) Where in heck would anyone take the time to explain the situation to O-Chul or the monster before the family of Vaarsuvius has fallen prey to the dragon? I am baffled at how willingly so many of you people ignore basic time frames.

Assassin89

2009-02-13, 11:56 AM

Raging Gene Ray

2009-02-13, 12:00 PM

I wonder if Qarr knows Sabine.

Also, V's mate might have established a Divine Connection with something from this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97038)

The_Void

2009-02-13, 12:10 PM

a)+d) The monster doesn't like eating children because of their taste, not because he cares for them in the slightest. Otherwise he probably wouldn't dispose of living babies in the dumpster, which is either very evil or completely oblivious to the moral implications (I suspect the latter).

True, but we have been shown at numerous points that he is quite kind and friendly, and not a emotionless murderer like Xykon. He only hangs about with Team Evil because they tell him they'll be his friend. All Qarr would have to do is tell him that he'd make lots of new friends if he came and helped out the kids.

b) Where in heck would anyone take the time to explain the situation to O-Chul or the monster before the family of Vaarsuvius has fallen prey to the dragon? I am baffled at how willingly so many of you people ignore basic time frames.

O-Chul is sitting in a cage right next to the MitD, so it wouldn't take long to explain it to them both.

And if we're trusting the dragon when he says he's going to teleport directly and kill them, and sticking to realistic time frames, then there's not a chance in hell of anybody teleporting there before the kids are dead (in fact they'd probably already be dead), so this would all be a moot point. As it is, we are assuming that they have enough time to get someone there.

DragonTrainer

2009-02-13, 12:44 PM

Considering that there's absolutely no time for anyone to get there before the Ancient Black Dragon, I believe the only chance V's family would have is if someone powerful is already there. Well... maybe not powerful, but someone who at least stands a chance. :p

Captain Julio Scoundrel!
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0392.html

As shown in the above strip, Captain Scoundrel tells Elan to trust his dramatic instincts and arrive in the nick of time! Who knows just how finely tuned Captain Scoundrel's dramatic instincts are. It could be on the level of a psychic for all we know. Plus he's a world traveller, right?

Alternatively, Elan's own dramatic instincts have improved so much, that during the time between V leaving the ship up to the Ancient Black Dragon teleporting to the elven village, Elan has convinced Hinjo to turn the fleet toward the elven village. :p

pendell

2009-02-13, 12:50 PM

Pastry golem with kung-fu action grip?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Silverraptor

2009-02-13, 12:54 PM

Actually I don't think that Xykon could hold off the dragon. Remember his little tussle with the Ancient Silver Dragon? Doesn't the Black dragon have as much spell resistance?

Volkov

2009-02-13, 01:03 PM

Unless There's a martian tripod in V's backyard or something on those lines theres no way V's family will survive.

Ceannaideach

2009-02-13, 01:30 PM

[QUOTE=The_Void;5768934]
O-Chul is sitting in a cage right next to the MitD, so it wouldn't take long to explain it to them both.
/QUOTE]

I can see the fight now:

:mitd: Wait a minute, What Ancient Black Dragon?
:vaarsuvius: Look over there you cretinous beast!
:mitd: *looks* Nice, now what about this Ancient Black Dragon that I hear so much about?

Faramir

2009-02-13, 01:53 PM

I can't believe no one else has figured out how V's family will be saved. After all, it's reasonable to assume that the restaurant for which V's spouse bakes serves brunch. And who do we know that enjoys travelling the world while stopping for an occasional bite of brunch?

That's right, flumphs to the rescue!

Ancalagon

2009-02-13, 01:56 PM

...and when all seemed lost, V's family was saved by...

... no one and they died.

Why? Because ULTIMATE arcane power calls for you to care for no one who could hold you back, who'd you have to care about. Therefore, V will lose ALL ties to this world and the next so he can concentrate on the one thing that matters: ULTIMATE arcane POWER.

If he'd care for something else that would put constraints into his brain, he'd not have ULTIMATE power.

Kaytara

2009-02-13, 02:17 PM

... no one and they died.

Why? Because ULTIMATE arcane power calls for you to care for no one who could hold you back, who'd you have to care about. Therefore, V will lose ALL ties to this world and the next so he can concentrate on the one thing that matters: ULTIMATE arcane POWER.

If he'd care for something else that would put constraints into his brain, he'd not have ULTIMATE power.

Sad to say that I agree with this assessment. It seems very likely that by the end of the story V will have gone through some sort of permanent change of status. Becoming a deity is not out of the question... That can only work, story-wise, if there was nothing holding V on this plane... :(

Faramir

2009-02-13, 03:01 PM

The Neoclassic

2009-02-13, 03:39 PM

Oh, and more seriously on thing that could make this theory more likely is if the imp is working with Sabine and/or her similarly speech-bubbled masters. That avoids the problem that V has no idea where they are.

Interesting point.

The Monster in the Darkness and O'Chul theory is greatly amusing to me, and I'd love to see it, but I find it extremely unlikely.

V's family dying? Possible, but way too melodramatic and depressing (what happened to Rich balancing comedy and drama?) and I'd be quite pissed that they kill off the cute elf who makes banana nut muffins. :smalltongue:

redcodekevin

2009-02-13, 03:49 PM

E) Black dragon chokes on a pastry "Master always did say my scones were so dry, a dragon could choke on one."

Is there a source to this quote, or was it just made up?

Tempeststurm

2009-02-13, 03:59 PM

Really crazy theory, but I don't think I've seen it anywhere else.

What else is nearby on a similar power level to the ABD? The petrified Pit Fiend. Now, we don't know that V can cast stone to flesh, and even if V could, is out of 6th level spells for the day. However, there may be some other spell which could work (I don't know the rules that well), or some other way of bringing the Pit Fiend into play. It's probably within a few rounds flight of V's current island, and once back to life can teleport, so this could get to V's home in time to intercept the dragon.

Assassin89

2009-02-13, 04:01 PM

Is there a source to this quote, or was it just made up?

I think I just made that one up.

Adding to the list of how the baking skills of V's mate could be used to combat the dragon

G) I prepared explosive pies this morning
H) Explosive scones
I) attacks by pixies and brownies...

Optimystik

2009-02-13, 05:05 PM

Dixieboy

2009-02-13, 06:28 PM

I wonder if Qarr knows Sabine.

Also, V's mate might have established a Divine Connection with something from this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97038)

Sabine is a succubus (Demon, she has batwings, not feathery angel wings)
Quarr is an imp (Devil)

It is highly unlikely they know eachother

kusje

2009-02-13, 07:06 PM

This idea has already been mentioned (by myself included), and Break Enchantment is only 5th level. I personally would like this idea because the Pit Fiend is a giant Chekov's Gun just waiting to be fired.

V would have to offer something to the fiend for it to want to help him. And no, restoring him wouldn't be considered a favor the same way someone returning money he stole from you wouldn't be considered a favor.

And "a few rounds of flight" is all it would take for ABD to finish its meal.

Dixieboy

2009-02-13, 07:08 PM

V would have to offer something to the fiend for it to want to help him. And no, restoring him wouldn't be considered a favor the same way someone returning money he stole from you wouldn't be considered a favor.

And "a few rounds of flight" is all it would take for ABD to finish its meal.

"Like stretching those limbs? Well you better enjoy it because if you don't help me it's gonna be a long time before you do it again" :smallamused:

You don't have to do a Devil a favor, just have something to bargain with, which in this case is his continued existence :smallredface:

Optimystik

2009-02-13, 07:38 PM

V would have to offer something to the fiend for it to want to help him. And no, restoring him wouldn't be considered a favor the same way someone returning money he stole from you wouldn't be considered a favor.

And "a few rounds of flight" is all it would take for ABD to finish its meal.

Fiendish Codex 2: Imps can function as agents for greater fiends, and they will uphold their end of the bargain made.

V can make a deal with Qarr and Qarr can pledge the Pit Fiend's service even before he is 'thawed'. In fact, the Pit Fiend didn't even manage to complete Qarr's first order, so being Lawful he may be obliged to accept a second directive.

kusje

2009-02-13, 08:04 PM

"Like stretching those limbs? Well you better enjoy it because if you don't help me it's gonna be a long time before you do it again" :smallamused:

You don't have to do a Devil a favor, just have something to bargain with, which in this case is his continued existence :smallredface:

I always thought V's defeat of the pit fiend was considered "lucky" and unlikely to happen again especially without the spells from the others in OOTS.

V could probably defeat the pit fiend with teleport. Oh that, V doesn't have that and thats what the fiend would probably do if it thought it would be outmatched.

Fiendish Codex 2: Imps can function as agents for greater fiends, and they will uphold their end of the bargain made.

V can make a deal with Qarr and Qarr can pledge the Pit Fiend's service even before he is 'thawed'. In fact, the Pit Fiend didn't even manage to complete Qarr's first order, so being Lawful he may be obliged to accept a second directive.

That sounds possible then. Although I can't tell without seeing the entire context of that statement.

Serebii

2009-02-13, 08:20 PM

I just know one thing for sure here, and that is that Rich is not a jerk. Whatever happens, the kids won't die (although Other Parent might...). :smallfrown:

[TS] Shadow

2009-02-13, 10:44 PM

*sigh* Everybody is talking about timeframes. Don't you know that speaking is a free action? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0166.html) That means that you can talk for as long as you want, without it having any effect on the time passage. So the only things that would take time are the teleports, which would make any of these theories a lot more plausible.

Morgan Wick

2009-02-14, 04:30 AM

... no one and they died.

Why? Because ULTIMATE arcane power calls for you to care for no one who could hold you back, who'd you have to care about. Therefore, V will lose ALL ties to this world and the next so he can concentrate on the one thing that matters: ULTIMATE arcane POWER.

If he'd care for something else that would put constraints into his brain, he'd not have ULTIMATE power.

And this is why this is going to be for "all the wrong reasons".

Shadow;5771822']*sigh* Everybody is talking about timeframes. Don't you know that speaking is a free action? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0166.html) That means that you can talk for as long as you want, without it having any effect on the time passage. So the only things that would take time are the teleports, which would make any of these theories a lot more plausible.

But when the talking is spanning multiple strips...

magic9mushroom

2009-02-14, 05:35 AM

The "Pre-Approved" smells of Sabine to me. So it looks like we may find out which one she is, and it is rather likely that she'll show up at some point in this arc.

kusje

2009-02-14, 05:42 AM

The "Pre-Approved" smells of Sabine to me. So it looks like we may find out which one she is, and it is rather likely that she'll show up at some point in this arc.

Except Sabine and Qarr are from different planes. She's a demon while he's a devil.

Optimystik

2009-02-14, 08:33 AM

Shadow;5771822']*sigh* Everybody is talking about timeframes. Don't you know that speaking is a free action? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0166.html) That means that you can talk for as long as you want, without it having any effect on the time passage. So the only things that would take time are the teleports, which would make any of these theories a lot more plausible.

Actually, the comic itself disproves that (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0186.html) when drama requires it.

Except Sabine and Qarr are from different planes. She's a demon while he's a devil.

Just because the heavens are divided along the ethical axis doesn't mean the hells are too. We don't know that for sure yet. There might not even BE a "Blood War" in this universe.

magic9mushroom

2009-02-14, 09:03 AM

Except Sabine and Qarr are from different planes. She's a demon while he's a devil.

She acts like it, and has the right abilities, but it's officially unknown, and that's why Haley has to use two arrows when attacking.

Signs pointing to chaotic (ie demon):
General carefree demeanor
Abilities match those of a succubus

Signs pointing to lawful (ie devil):
Associates with Nale
Obsession with being the one to kill Haley
Has to report to superiors

And also, as Optimystik noted, there may not be a Blood War in the OotS-verse. Sabine's conversation with the Infernals supports this, as they talk about the balance between Good and Evil, as opposed to the battle between Law and Chaos, which would be more important if the Blood War was around.

GoC

2009-02-14, 09:10 AM

Wait...there is one other group...a group that could pose a considerable threat even to a dragon...one that we have not seen for some time, but who shows up every arc so far...
The Linear Guild.

No way. If they're the same level as the OotS then Sabine and Thog are CR 14 and Nale is CR 12 or less (thanks to his multiclassing ineffectiveness). That makes a total < CR 17. For comparison the dragon is CR 22 (19 dragon+3 levels in sorceror).

magic9mushroom

2009-02-14, 09:32 AM

No way. If they're the same level as the OotS then Sabine and Thog are CR 14 and Nale is CR 12 or less (thanks to his multiclassing ineffectiveness). That makes a total < CR 17. For comparison the dragon is CR 22 (19 dragon+3 levels in sorceror).

So? A shadow is CR 3, and can drop many CR 10+ creatures.

Obrysii

2009-02-14, 09:44 AM

For those discussing the possibilities of Undead monsters, such as Xykon, killing the dragon - it'd be funny if the dragon has Rebuking Breath (or is it Turning Breath?) - the spell from the Draconomicon that allows dragon breath weapons to act like a Cleric's Turning/Rebuking.

Optimystik

2009-02-14, 10:07 AM

GoC

2009-02-14, 12:22 PM

So? A shadow is CR 3, and can drop many CR 10+ creatures.

Yes, but that kind of loophole doesn't apply in this case though does it?

Optimystik

2009-02-14, 02:00 PM

Yes, but that kind of loophole doesn't apply in this case though does it?

It might. The Linear Guild's greatest strength - cunning - isn't something we can measure with a Challenge Rating.

Though I will note their task would be a lot harder with no caster besides Nale.

Adderfield

2009-02-14, 04:34 PM

Nobody and nothing are going to save the lives of V's family. I just don't see there being any time for that, now, barring a Deus Ex Machina or some time travel plotline, both of which seem like cop-outs that Rich has generally (thankfully) avoided in this story. Both of these things cheapen death in comics, and so far Rich has been very good about keeping death real and relevant in Oots.

Plus, V's family didn't even EXIST until a couple strips ago; and none have names. I smell cannon fodder.

There MIGHT be time for V to negotiate a way to save their souls; either preventing, or at least undoing, the Soul Bind phase of the ABD's plan [Dispelling the soul bind, blocking it, offering the ABD a buyout it's willing to accept, etc]. If they are to be saved in any way, I suspect it will be limited to this (after all, V is now bargaining with specialists in soul-trafficking.