4 words coming, or Giant playing with us?

[Zeitgeist]

The situation would indicate something big is about to happen with V. Do you think the 4 words of ultimate arcane power are coming soon, or is the Giant just playing with us?

[enarch3t]

The Four words: Number Six Thirty Two.

[Spiky]

The situation would indicate something big is about to happen with V. Do you think the 4 words of ultimate arcane power are coming soon, or is the Giant just playing with us?

Yes. And yes.

[Desouulm]

Or, perhaps we've already heard them?

"You've (Have) Been Pre-Approved!"

:smallwink:

[geemixdee]

I think we already heard the words.
They were
Desintegrate,
Desintegrate,
Desintegrate and not to forget
Desintegrate

[Eloel]

I think we already heard the words.
They were
Desintegrate,
Desintegrate,
Desintegrate and not to forget
Desintegrate

Isn't it ironic that you're misspelling the "4" words, when making fun of someone?

[Morgan Wick]

The Four words: Number Six Thirty Two.

More like:
Order of the Stick 632 Four Words (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0632.html)

(No, I'm not going to speculate on the exact words.)

[Haven]

Maybe "I cannot fail again!" qualifies?

[Illiander]

Or "I cannot believe this"?

I think the Giant is going to start throwing lots of 4-liners out of V´s mouth, just so we never know which set it is.

[Zeitgeist]

I think we already heard the words.
They were
Desintegrate,
Desintegrate,
Desintegrate and not to forget
Desintegrate

Clever, but no. I don't think his desire to get rid of an evil imp is such a "wrong reason". And I think that doesn't directly have an effect on him getting powers. What happens NOW will, even if those 4 words put him in the circumstance. He still has to make the decision, and those 4 words didn't force him to do so.


I think the Giant is going to start throwing lots of 4-liners out of V´s mouth, just so we never know which set it is.

Somehow, I suspect this as well.

[Ancalagon]

We were told we'd know when the right words aer/were being said.

[TheNovak]

Uh, guys? "I cannot fail again."

[dogmac]

I think "I require power NOW" is a bit more likely than "I cannot fail again"

[Welf]

I also though at first that it's 4-words-time; but then again I don't think saving the lives and souls of your family counts as "wrong reasons".

[Sonata Arctica]

I believe in a brazilian forum's theory which says the four words were "Disintegrate. Gust of Wind." said to Kubota.
It's the only thing that applies to "By saying the right four words to the right being at the right time for all the wrong reasons."

[Järnblomma]

I believe in a brazilian forum's theory which says the four words were "Disintegrate. Gust of Wind." said to Kubota.
It's the only thing that applies to "By saying the right four words to the right being at the right time for all the wrong reasons."

There was a lot of speculations that those were the words here as well.

Personally I believe we will know if they are the four words, even if it is subverted. They will stand out enough, methinks.

[starfalconkd]

If the four words were "I cannot fail again," then they fulfill the criteria. Instead of saying s/he would sell his/her soul to save his/her family V is only interested in him/herself. The selfishness of that statement is what makes it all the wrong reasons.

[[TS] Shadow]

I believe in a brazilian forum's theory which says the four words were "Disintegrate. Gust of Wind." said to Kubota.
It's the only thing that applies to "By saying the right four words to the right being at the right time for all the wrong reasons."

V didn't say 4 words to the right being. Kubota was dead after "disintergrate." Thus, V didn't say four words to the right being, thus meaning THOSE AREN'T THE RIGHT WORDS. How many times do I have to disprove this?

[SoC175]

I think the Giant is going to start throwing lots of 4-liners out of V´s mouth, just so we never know which set it is.
Why is it that anyone is believing that V has to say exactly four words and not more or less?

The four words could be part of a longer sentence or even two sentences following each other (e.g. last word of sentence 1 plus first three words of sentence 2).

She might even say them in two different panels.

[Dogmantra]

I don't think the four words are going to be said to Qarr, I reckon they're going to be said to Pompey, so I hope the Giant's playing with us :smallwink:

[Tredrick]

Uh, guys? "I cannot fail again."

I would bet on that.

Right four words (to get power)
right being (an imp who can get you a Faustian deal)
right time (pre-approved!)
wrong reason (to avoid failure, not to save the family)

right reason would be "I must save them!" or "my children must live!" For the last two comics V's emphasis has been on not failing and less on saving the family.

[Mando Knight]

How about something simpler?

To the devil (Such as Asmodeus... pre-approval might mean that he's got his eyes on V...) that will likely appear next comic:
"I accept your offer."

Right being: powerful fiend capable of delivering power through a Faustian Deal.
Right time: world's in danger, ancient dragon's loose and angry, a lich and his goblin cohort are out to threaten the existence of reality...
For all the wrong reasons: To save V's family... not the world.

[Winthur]

"Damn, Rick Rolled again!"

[MCerberus]

I'm pretty sure that even if the 4 words are coming, Rich is still playing with us. If I had a penny for every time Rich has played with the forum community's theories, I could buy a footlong from subway and a 20oz soda.

That comes to roughly $6.31 US. It's part of the charm of the comic :smalltongue:.

[GooeyChewie]

I think it'll be hilarious if the right four words turns out to be "the right four words."

[oxybe]

methinks the "I cannot fail again" might be because V's already failed someone close to V once (see: haley) and this is best interpreted as "I cannot fail [those close to me] again".

the whole "i can't contact haley" thing really shook V up. V does not want to be in a position where V cannot help those people again, thus the "I cannot fail again!"

[Vemynal]

guys, remember he has to say the words for all the wrong reasons

selling your soul for ultimate power so you can *save your children* sounds like a good reason to me

[Pip]

Shadow;5773549']V didn't say 4 words to the right being. Kubota was dead after "disintergrate." Thus, V didn't say four words to the right being, thus meaning THOSE AREN'T THE RIGHT WORDS. How many times do I have to disprove this?

At least once more.

:smalltongue:

[Porthos]

"I accept the terms" (or something very similiar)

This is, BTW, the first time I have ever thought about what the four words might be. But the "for all the worng reasons" fits if the reason V is doing this is becuase he feels that he is failing once again due to his lack of mastery of magic.

If he was solely motivated by saving the lives of his mate/kids, that would be one thing. But it is fairly obvious (at least to me) that a lot of the motivation that V has right now is shame. Shame that he feels that he is not smart/knowledgeable enough to solve the problems that face him. And while he is seeking worthy goals (save the fighter, save the world) if what drives him is a sense of inferiority...

.... well it could be argued that this is "for all of the wrong reasons".

But I will admit that this could be a giant (no pun intended) fake out. But we'll probably know very soon one way or the other.

[kusje]

Rule of awesome dictates that the 4 words will be so awesome it will be quoted for in years to come.

None of that "I accept your deal" stuff. So trite and boring!

[Porthos]

Rule of awesome dictates that the 4 words will be so awesome it will be quoted for in years to come.

That's why it's ripe for subversion! :smalltongue:

[jmucchiello]

I think it'll be hilarious if the right four words turns out to be "the right four words."
That is awesome. Can't be right but I want it to be.

[Zeitgeist]

Gah, I didn't make this to discuss WHAT the four words will be, but rather if people think they are coming soon or not. I absolutely do not believe they have already happened.

[Forealms]

guys, remember he has to say the words for all the wrong reasons

selling your soul for ultimate power so you can *save your children* sounds like a good reason to me

Actually, I think it would be "the wrong reason" for a similar... reason?

For example, achieving ultimate arcane power through: Eternal damnation (Not just questionably evil, I hope) to do the Good act of saving the children.

[nosajtpno]

I think the words have already been said:

"Bugsby's Expressive Single Digit!"

^_^

[Morgan Wick]

For all the wrong reasons: To save V's family... not the world.

This is the best elucidation of my theory I've yet seen.

[ericgrau]

Ya, I think they're coming. And I think we'll know them when they come. I have no guess on what they are other than "I accept the deal" or "I sell my soul" or something similar. But they may be something more elaborate.

We have "all the wrong reason" down tight. The exact "right being" isn't apparent yet, but it seems like it will be a devil. The "right time" is the present circumstances.

And anyone else notice that there's been an awfully high concentration of subplot resolutions lately?

[David Argall]

And anyone else notice that there's been an awfully high concentration of subplot resolutions lately?
We are coming to the end of the book, which is the normal time to resolve things. We of course have a high retention rate with our multi-volume set, but even so, it is time to get rid of some stuff.

[Fiery Diamond]

I expect to see the four words (if not already said) in number 633.

[SupraGuy]

The Four Words are definitely coming, V is in way over his/her head, (Though "Other Parent" looks more female to me, but is still androgynous enough to leave room for doubt)

Anyway, at this point, even if V makes it to his home, the dragon has alredy proven the elf completely ineffectual, and powerless to stop him. Something's gotta change, and "Ultimate Arcane Power" fits the bill.

I was thinking something like:

"I accept your terms."

"I'll take it all."

"I need some more."

[Blue Ghost]

I don't know if the 4 words are coming soon, but it seems likely. And if it does in fact happen in this subplot, with the expected "I accept your deal" or something similar, then Rich is a genius.

Remember that the Oracle was speaking for Tiamat, an LE Baatorian goddess, when he made the prophecy.
The right 4 words: "I accept your deal" --something that Baator always wants to hear.
The right being: An archdevil, a direct ally of Tiamat.
The right time: During a time of crazed desperation, when V's moral guard is at its lowest.
The wrong reasons: To save her family--one of the worst possible reasons, in the perspective of Baator.

[bluewind95]

Nah. I think Rich is toying with us all. I think it's too early for truly ultimate arcane power, though this deal may get V closer to that goal. It's "power beyond your wildest imagination" that he's being offered, and that is only based on "previous customers". He/she is not being offered truly ultimate power.... just enough to best this situation. Closer to ultimate power, maybe. But I still don't think he/she will get ultimate power just yet. It would make things too easy.

[TARINunit9]

Are the "right four words spoken to the right being at the right time for all the wrong reasons" about to be spoken?

In my opinion, no. And I have reasons.
(One that came after reading comic 631, and another after comic 632.)

Reason #1: the words are spoken for the "wrong" reasons. I'm pretty sure "saving your defenseless spouse and children from a hellbent dragon" counts as a "right" reason.
Reason #2: the words are spoken to the right being. "Being" is singular. The IFCC is three beings. "Beings" is plural.

As a closing note, I am not saying this evidence is unequivocal and conclusive. I could be completely wrong here. It's Rich Burlew's call, and he trumps ALL of our speculations!

[SmartAlec]

Shadow;5773549']Kubota was dead after "disintergrate." Thus, V didn't say four words to the right being, thus meaning THOSE AREN'T THE RIGHT WORDS. How many times do I have to disprove this?

You haven't disproved it; only offered an ontological opinion on the definition of 'being'.

[RosesOnConcrete]

I still say it'll be "Hand me my doily." :P

Also, I'm looking forward to getting this particular question answered once and for all just so people will SHUT THE HECK UP ABOUT IT.

[derfenrirwolv]

I'm going to hop on the "I cannot fail again" bandwagon

Right four words: It gets qarr to open up the big guns.

Right Being: Qarr. He seems rather well connected for a "mere" imp. Theres more to him that a class race combo

Right time: Now. After the IFCC has learned of the snarl and they know he's desperate. Any other time V would be more than content to wait for his eleven lifespan to try to get arcane power. This is the only time he has a "hurry up" on his scheduel.

All the wrong reasons: Pride. I honestly think that if V were doing this to save his family, his soul would be too good to take. But its not "i can't let my family die" Its "I cannot fail again"... his ego is what he's selling his soul for, NOT his family. He's more worried about what ANOTHER failure means to him and his decisions to study magic than what it means to his family. Thats enough to put a foot down that slipper slope, and now he's going to push off and start to skate.

[Spoomeister]

I have a running theory that the "4 words" thing is a plot point that is movable, i.e. it can be used in the story at any time Rich chooses, and it's largely unconnected to anything going on with the major or minor plots.

This allows Rich to have a private rule, whereby every time he sees a new thread speculating about the 4 words prophecy, he automatically moves forward the strip that the prophecy will be fulfilled in, by 4 strips. :smallbiggrin:

[Ozymandias9]

guys, remember he has to say the words for all the wrong reasons

selling your soul for ultimate power so you can *save your children* sounds like a good reason to me

Doing it because you can't stand the idea of magic failing you again would, however, not be.

[tcrudisi]

The right 4 words have not been said yet. Why not? Because we'd all be quoting how awesome (or tragic) it was when V said it, much akin to "I am a sexy shoeless god of war!"

633 is the first comic that I'm even half-expecting the four words to appear in. It's been set up, but I'm not sure if it will happen or not.

I would like to throw in my 2gp concerning the right/wrong reasons: Getting ultimate arcane power to save your children, while a good act, is bad reason for V when V has a world to save. Let's compare options, shall we? V lives a very long time, so s/he has 2 options: use the ultimate arcane power to save hir children or to save the world. Assuming s/he uses it to save hir children, it might not be available for use to save the world, so hir children die anyway. (I think the ultimate arcane power might be a 1-shot use item or power). However, if V "lets" the dragon kill hir children, then after V has defeated Snarl, s/he can spend the rest of hir life hunting down the dragon with or without the rest of the OotS help.

Also, I fear the ultimate arcane power might be permanent but V will end up dead when s/he uses it (perhaps the dragon kills V after all, or some-such).

[Jaffo]

I thought they were "Do what you must."

I'm curious what's going to happen next.

Evil magic staff?
Prestige class?

High probability of black robes in the next 2 strips, but I can't imagine V doing evil for any reason once his children are safe.

Unless he saves them from the dragon and they are promptly kidnapped by the IFCC.

Whatever happens during this time-stop, I hope it includes a nap. Sleep-deprived V is actually making me feel tired and strung out just looking at him.

[Document]

I think the Giant is going to start throwing lots of 4-liners out of V´s mouth, just so we never know which set it is.
V actually knows that a four-word phrase is what she's looking for, right? In that case, that'd actually make a kind of sense in-character.

Also, my guess on "wrong reasons" is that, from V's point of view at the time she received the prophecy, the wrong reasons would by anything other than total arcane power; or at least some reason opposed to the reason she wanted it back then. Possibly it'll even happen at the exact point she decides for some reason that she doesn't want it.

[Zeitgeist]

Do so many of you honestly believe the 4 words will be something so subtle and boring as:

Do what you must.
I accept your deal.
I'll take it all.
I need some more.

If so, I think you're seriously not giving the Giant's creativity the credit it's due. I'm 99% sure the 4 words will be something nobody has come up with nor will come up with. The intent or outcome can be deduced, possibly, but the specific words are going to be words of creative genius, not "I will serve you."

[Spiky]

Do so many of you honestly believe the 4 words will be something so subtle and boring as:

Do what you must.
I accept your deal.
I'll take it all.
I need some more.

If so, I think you're seriously not giving the Giant's creativity the credit it's due. I'm 99% sure the 4 words will be something nobody has come up with nor will come up with. The intent or outcome can be deduced, possibly, but the specific words are going to be words of creative genius, not "I will serve you."

Probably true. How about:
Do what you must!
I accept your deal!
I'll take it all!
I need some more!

[KingMerv00]

I'm fine with wild speculation in any other topic but seriously, if one more person claims _____ is the four words, I'm going to flip that _____ out.

When the four words come, we'll know. If it is a subversion, we won't. End of story.

[Lord Kamper]

"Damn, Rick Rolled again!"

winrar .

[Mad Mask]

I believe he will say exactly "the right four words to the right being for all the wrong reasons", not 4 four words. Hey, it makes more sense then any fan theory !

[Dixieboy]

Shadow;5773549']V didn't say 4 words to the right being. Kubota was dead after "disintergrate." Thus, V didn't say four words to the right being, thus meaning THOSE AREN'T THE RIGHT WORDS. How many times do I have to disprove this?

You didn't disprove anything, kindly do so

[kaervas]

I'm a little confused here. When did the original reference to the four words appeared? Seriously, I'm lost.

Thanks!

[Spiky]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0331.html

[kusje]

You didn't disprove anything, kindly do so

He did. Unless you think Kubota's ashes constitute a person.

[Dixieboy]

He did. Unless you think Kubota's ashes constitute a person. When did the oracle say anything about a "person"?

[LucyHarris]

Also, I'm looking forward to getting this particular question answered once and for all just so people will SHUT THE HECK UP ABOUT IT.

This. A thousand times, this.

I'm certainly curious about what it'll be, but it's been hammered into the ground so much and for so long that I get weary whenever I see the subject pop up yet again. Heck, this is the first time I've ever made a comment on it, simply because I don't have anything to add to the discussion.

[SmartAlec]

He did.

- The prophecies that we have seen so far have been open to personal interpretation regarding the fine detail. For example, Haley was told not to look a gift horse in the mouth. Well, it wasn't a gift horse. It was the opposite of a gift horse, if anything - it was a trap to murder her. But she thought it was a gift horse, and the prophecy worked. Therefore, if V thought or felt s/he was speaking to Kubota when speaking to Kubota's remains, then it would still be valid.

- The prophecy says that V has to say the right four words to the right being. Nowhere does the prophecy say that the recipient has to be in a condition to be able to hear them (i.e. alive, or atomically integrated).

- The prophecy may even refer to Elan, rather than Kubota - in that V was speaking the words to Elan by default, because Elan was the only person present to hear them.

[Titanium Dragon]

I also though at first that it's 4-words-time; but then again I don't think saving the lives and souls of your family counts as "wrong reasons".


The fate of the entire world hangs in the balance, and V is worried about the lives of three people who will die anyway if they don't save the world. That alone probably says "wrong reason". Or at least is sufficient for it.

Not to mention the fact there's the whole "I cannot fail again"/massive ego thing.

[Kish]

Or at least is sufficient for it.

This highlights one of the major problems I have with all the "Those were the four words!" speculating. Rich doesn't need to play the "I can cram the prophecy into those words if I hold my head at the right angle" game, however many people on the forum enjoy it. :smalltongue: He wrote the entire prophecy to match what he had planned--not the other way around.

[David Argall]

You didn't disprove anything, kindly do so

A simple denial of something is not a valid logical argument. One can keep on saying "no" no matter how much evidence is presented. Since the position can never be disproved, it can't be proved, and is mere noise. One must explain why this is not sufficient proof.

However, to pile on the fantasy of "Disintegrate. Gust of Wind" as the 4 words,...

By the rules of English grammar, "Gust of Wind" is not addressed to Kubota. It is addressed to a magical force. The full sentence would read something like "Magic servant, remove this pile of dirt and junk." In a world like ours, this would be an elevator operated by voice. If you say "8th floor", you can carry "Kubota" to the 8th floor, but it is the elevator you are talking to.



Haley was told not to look a gift horse in the mouth. Well, it wasn't a gift horse. It was the opposite of a gift horse, if anything - it was a trap to murder her. But she thought it was a gift horse,
Her view is what makes it a gift horse. A gift horse is the opposite advice of "when something sounds too good to be true, it probably is." It is free goodies she didn't have to pay for, and there is no obvious string. That we know it to be a trap is unimportant.


if V thought or felt s/he was speaking to Kubota when speaking to Kubota's remains, then it would still be valid.
But as already noted, V did not think she was speaking to Kubota.


- The prophecy may even refer to Elan, rather than Kubota - in that V was speaking the words to Elan by default, because Elan was the only person present to hear them.
The words were obviously not spoken to Elan, who might as well have been a piece of scenery at the time. His ability to hear them in no way means they were spoken to him.

And it has now been a week, OOTS time. V has yet to get ultimate power, and a host of more likely possibilities are before us.

[SmartAlec]

What I'm trying to say is, Belkar tried the same thing as people claiming "Dis. Gu-o-Wind" aren't the four words: he tried to literally define the prophecy and argue with the Oracle. And the Oracle made it clear that the prophecies are broadly open to interpretation. Thus, trying to claim that such-and-such words are 'impossible' is folly - if there's a slim case the Oracle can justify it, he will.

As for it being a week already, I daresay this is because getting one's voice back is a more demanding enterprise, mechanically (if not psychologically) than being pushed to the point of revealing your deepest secret.

[Kish]

What I'm trying to say is, Belkar tried the same thing as people claiming "Dis. Gu-o-Wind" aren't the four words: he tried to literally define the prophecy and argue with the Oracle.

And the Oracle, as his lifeblood spilled on the floor, conceded that he himself had not bought the arguments he was offering. Belkar's prophecy came true very literally, with him killing one of the people he'd asked about with his own daggers, and the Oracle had known that specifically would happen and prepared for it.

[SmartAlec]

Even then, you could claim that the prophecy was invalid; because the Oracle was revived soon after, you could say Belkar only caused a death of the Oracle, not the death of the Oracle.

But that wouldn't work either. Prophecies are not subject to hair-splitting, it seems.

[Code Black]

I'm not entirely sure that V's prophecy is on the way just yet. I don't think trying to save one's family counts as "all the wrong reasons."

[Zeitgeist]

I'm not entirely sure that V's prophecy is on the way just yet. I don't think trying to save one's family counts as "all the wrong reasons."

That's been said so many times, but it really doesn't hold water.

Compared to the bigger goals of, you know, saving the world, I'd have to say that protecting his family is trivial.

[Keinnicht]

Sorry, What is the origin of this four words thing?

[Emperor Ing]

Sorry, What is the origin of this four words thing?

This (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0331.html)
But listen. The giant is playing with us. No doubt in my mind.
1) The oracle said 'Being'. Not 'Beings'. There are three of them.
2) Saving your family, is NOT 'for all the wrong reasons'
3) IMO, it's waaay too obvious. If anything, V was far more likely to have said her 4 words at least once during 599 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0599.html) but indeed, it's farfetched.

[Rotipher]

Perhaps V will be granted the power to save vir family, and will do so, killing Mama Dragon before Parent or the children can be harmed. V's soul is now forfeit, but vir actual alignment is unchanged, and ve remains a free agent until death.

Then, Our Three Fiends conjure V into their presence again, and demand that V relinquish the arcane power they'd temporarily bequeathed. But, utterly intoxicated by vir enhanced abilities, V will selfishly beg to retain that power ... and the IFCC will allow it, provided ve works for them in life. Now V's immediate "right reason" -- saving vir family -- no longer applies, and vir previous intent to save the world is likewise negated, because V must now advance the Fiends' own evil plans for the Snarl.

End result? The family lives, V gains vir promised power at the cost of vir autonomy and soul ... and the IFCC has a spy in the Order of the Stick.

[Cakedeath]

I don't think the four words are coming anytime soon. Or anytime at all. I always thought the four words was just a joke. V's character was a lot less developed then. It was just typical, early-strip V feeding the Oracle material for one of his predictions in which he technically answers the question without actually giving any information. The whole point of the oracle-visit was Roy picking which gate to go to, advancing the plot. Everything else was just a joke. When people started taking it seriously and making forum thread's about it, the Giant decided to keep it a "possibility" and have V start saying four-word sentences more often. Pretty much the same thing happened with V's gender. It wasn't originally purposefully ambiguous, but once people started arguing about it, it stayed as a running joke. (or at least I heard that somewhere.) I could be wrong about all this, but I don't think the four words should be taken seriously.

[Kish]

I don't think the four words are coming anytime soon. Or anytime at all. I always thought the four words was just a joke. V's character was a lot less developed then. It was just typical, early-strip

I think ~330 stretches the definition of "early" rather.

Belkar's prediction came true. Haley's prediction came true. Roy's prediction appears to be true, as Redcloak is talking about going to Girard's Gate next, not Kraagor's Gate. More than that, the compilation book talks about the significance of each prophecy. You think Vaarsuvius' prophecy is "just a joke"? Rich doesn't write that sloppily.

[the_tick_rules]

It would fulfill all the right criteria. Supreme power, at the right time, and for all the wrong reasons. There is potential. But the giant is very good at misdirection. He's duped us before.

[icelator]

A long time ago the seer said v would acquire ultimate arcane power by saying 4 words to etc.

I wanna see what people think the words are seeing as how I think we are going to hear them very soon.

I think it might be:

go go gadget spells

or

I have the power

or

do you take checks?

[JonestheSpy]

Actually, the more time goes on the more I think the all -important 4 words were:

"Disintigrate. Gust of Wind."

Right thing to do, at the right time, but for all the wrong reasons. And led to V's removing himself from his/her friends, and giving the dragon her opening.

Any of the things V could say at this juncture - "I accept your offer", or whatever, could harly be said to be for all the wrong reasons, ans V's motivation is to save two innocent children from literally a fate worse than death.

Anyway, I strongly suspect that RB won't actually say what the 4 words even were until maybe after the entire story is finished, and let people argue about it until then.

[Code Black]

That's been said so many times, but it really doesn't hold water.

Compared to the bigger goals of, you know, saving the world, I'd have to say that protecting his family is trivial.

Trivial reason? Yes.

Not a good concern in comparison to the quest to save the world? Probably.

Necessarily wrong? No.

[Furin_Mirado]

I would have to argue that the right four words have not been spoken yet. The deal currently being brokered is of limited duration and so is not "ultimate" as I see it.

Ultimate means there cannot be any greater arcane power. My argument then is that arcane power with an unlimited duration would be greater than one that is limited, so the limited version cannot be ultimate.

The right four words will either be spoken in a situation unrelated to the current one, or else V will attempt to amend the deal to make the increased power permanent and in doing so utter the right four words, etc.

Feel free to kick that idea around. I think it has its merits.

[Sotris]

Perhaps this has been mentioned before, but I just thought about it:

The other party in the upcoming deal V is about to make consists of those Three Evil Stooges. It's clear they are into this together.

So, wouldn't V's accepting the deal mean that he would have to say 'the right words (whatever those are) to the right beings for all the wrong reasons'? Maybe this is a technicality, but it doesn't seem to me like it applies to the prophecy. V has to say the words to a single being.

[Nimrod's Son]

Maybe this is a technicality, but it doesn't seem to me like it applies to the prophecy. V has to say the words to a single being.
That last part is the problem I have with the (surprisingly large) "Disintegrate. Gust of Wind" crowd. Even claiming that V said "Disintegrate" to Kubota is a big stretch, since he's just casting a spell - but the other three words were spoken after Kubota was already dead. There is no way that "Gust of Wind" can be interpreted as being something that Vaarsuvius said to Kubota.

EDIT: ...and I now see that this point has already been covered. For some reason most of the previous posts weren't showing up when I first opened this thread. :smallconfused:

EDIT EDIT: Ah, two threads got merged while I was typing. That makes sense then.

[David Argall]

the other three words were spoken after Kubota was already dead. There is no way that "Gust of Wind" can be interpreted as being something that Vaarsuvius said to Kubota.
Strictly speaking this is incorrect. We say a lot of things to the dead. See Elan and Therkla for example. So V might have been speaking to the dead Kubota here, if the words had been somewhat different. However, "Gust of Wind" is the same as "Butler, throw out this jerk." and is spoken to the butler, not to "kubota".

[Nimrod's Son]

Strictly speaking this is incorrect. We say a lot of things to the dead. See Elan and Therkla for example.
Quite. But as I noted in the earlier part of my post, and as you yourself pointed out before me, V is quite obviously not speaking to Kubota here. He's casting a spell.

You made an excellent post a little way up the page there that answered the "Disintegrate. Gust of Wind" point very thoroughly and left little opportunity for rebuttal. Don't spoil it by getting pedantically argumentative over nothing.

[FanZ26]

Since the 3 fiends showed up I've been expecting the 4 words to be V's acceptance of their deal. I can see how the "Disintegrate-Gust of Wind" or the "I cannot fail again" theories could be correct, I'd be perfectly happy accepting either one of them; but I think the 4 words will stand out on their own, not be tucked into the bottom of a text balloon like "I cannot fail again", and as for "Disintegrate-Gust of Wind", I don't really think calling out spell names counts as regular speech - and also, they're tied pretty tightly to his next line after that.

I don't know exactly what phrase V will use to accept the deal, but Rich could suprise us by coming up with something original. The only thing that doesn't seem to fit is "for all the wrong reasons". I think paying the power to saved your loved ones with a period of torment after death is a noble thing to do, and saving one's family is about the best reason one could have to sell one's soul: I really can't see that "his family is a bad reason compared to saving the world" justification as being valid. Even if it could be considered a wrong reason, it could hardly be described as "all the wrong reasons". But maybe V will give a monologue before accepting the deal in which it is revealed that the real reason he is making the deal is more out of a personal unwillingness to accept failure than to truly protect his family, which would fulfill the "all the wrong reasons".

Also:


Remember that the Oracle was speaking for Tiamat, an LE Baatorian goddess, when he made the prophecy.
The right 4 words: "I accept your deal" --something that Baator always wants to hear.
The right being: An archdevil, a direct ally of Tiamat.
The right time: During a time of crazed desperation, when V's moral guard is at its lowest.
The wrong reasons: To save her family--one of the worst possible reasons, in the perspective of Baator.
I like this reasoning. I could see this being the explanation of the prophecy.

Finally, I'm not sure what the fiends are getting at. It seems pretty reasonable, but fiends are very good at getting mortals into more than they bargained for. Even if they aren't outright lying or deceiving about something (which I consider a significant possibility) we can bet they're conveniently leaving out a few important details, or telling the letter of the truth without the intent. Remember that these guys are Sabine's masters and presumably know about the gates; I highly doubt their approach to V, one of the heroes most closely connected to the gates, is a coincidence.

Of course, it's entirely possible Rich has played us all and the 4 words aren't about to show up here after all! But no matter what I can't imagine V turning down the deal. I mean, when it comes down to it what choice does he have? I don't think even he honestly believes he has some way to save his family tucked away in the books he has on that island, and he's willing to do whatever it takes to save his family. Whether that is out of a genuine desire to protect them or merely an unwillingness to fail again is open to interpretation at this point.

[Flame of Anor]

I definitely think they're coming--unless V will have another chance at ultimate arcane power? I suppose it's possible. But I'm certain that we'll know when they've come.

[Sotris]

So, to which being (singular) is V about to say the words at this point?

[javcs]

Not immediately. We will probably take a break from V in a few strips and go back to the fleet.

My current theory is that the 4 words will occur in #666 or V will gain UP in #666, even if the 4 words appear earlier.

Although - it is possible that a doily or two plus this Soul Splice deal could be the key, I'm dubious about that, though.

[Marduk Prophet]

4 words coming, or Giant playing with us?
I'm inclined to believe that the answer is neither, and that we are simply playing amongst ourselves, the giant oblivious to our presence on the playground. It has been stated that the giant intentionally avoids reading many things out of a desire to not become influenced by ideas. While it does seem apparent he has injected things into the strips just to make us squirm, it could just as likely be a result of our desire to be included in the Giant's world that we assume he sets these kind of things out for us to play with.

I can see Rich skimming threads and putting into play running gags or discussions (a la dispelling the idea of Miko being resurrected). However, something that pretty much cinches a plot device already developed by Mr. Burlew is not something I would assume he would just randomly drop in, or toy with us on.

[Chaman]

He has good reasons right now.

but it seems V wont have ultimate power for too long, what about something in the line of this threads title? the fiends, after he spends the time with each, tell him he can have it again. this time for all the wrong reasons.

problem: I do not see many reasons besides just plain greed.

any thoughts?

[Texas Jedi]

The only problem I have with the prophecy is that it is worded to the right being (singular). These demons, devils, daemon? are three beings. I am wondering if this all just a big set up for nothing.

Just think back to when Belkar was fighting Crystal and Bozzok people left and right were predicting that this would his death. I think this just a set up to get the threads a jumpin' with speculation and to tell a story.

The comic is only about halfway done. We still haven't gotten very close to 4th gate...nor even the 5th gate beyond.

My response is just be patient the prophecy will happen just not for a while.

[BisectedBrioche]

Maybe they'll be "I refuse your offer", knowing the dramatic conventions from hanging around with Elan and that it may well be some sort of test, and get ultimate power from his Elven god of magic or something?

"Because you know its a test" would qualify as the wrong reason to say it after all, the right reason being "because you're such a mind bogglingly good person you won't deal with evil beings even to save your family".

[Texas Jedi]

I can't find the exact comic but doesn't it say that there will be suffering by one or more of the characters before Roy is ressurected?

I can't remember if it was a comic or if it was something Rich said. If that is the case then we have a little suffering with Therkla dying and Elan feeling terrible about it. If V's kids and mate were to die there will be much suffering.

[Lira]

I can't find the exact comic but doesn't it say that there will be suffering by one or more of the characters before Roy is ressurected?Here's the comment you're thinking of, from Rich's commentary in War and XPs:
Rest assured that bringing the team back together will have a cost - a heavy toll paid by one member of the Order that could change them forever.

[sidhe3141]

The only problem I have with the prophecy is that it is worded to the right being (singular). These demons, devils, daemon? are three beings. I am wondering if this all just a big set up for nothing.

Just think back to when Belkar was fighting Crystal and Bozzok people left and right were predicting that this would his death. I think this just a set up to get the threads a jumpin' with speculation and to tell a story.

The comic is only about halfway done. We still haven't gotten very close to 4th gate...nor even the 5th gate beyond.

My response is just be patient the prophecy will happen just not for a while.
Yes, Cedric, Nero, and Lee are three beings, but the IFCC itself could be considered a single entity. On top of that, any deal is likely going to be made with Cedric, as devils are more likely than demons (and presumably daemons) to grant pacts.

And nothing says that V has to want the power back immediately after losing it. V could well feel "unclean" after the Splice ends (due to being in direct spiritual contact with pure Evil), but later want the power back to, for instance, seal/control the fifth gate.

[Kish]

Yes, Cedric, Nero, and Lee are three beings, but the IFCC itself could be considered a single entity.
"...Could be considered..."

Rich doesn't have to stretch, people. If his plan was for Vaarsuvius to gain complete and total ultimate arcane power by speaking to three beings the prophecy would have said "beings."

[Texas Jedi]

Here's the comment you're thinking of, from Rich's commentary in War and XPs:

I think that V loosing his family would count for what's in the spoiler. Haley loosing her hair.........not nearly as much.

[Kaytara]

It could still happen if ONE of the IFCC decides to make a separate deal with Vaarsuvius behind the backs of his colleagues.

But I still think this isn't the time yet. Not sure why, but I don't think Rich would warn us with such glowing "Ultimate Arcane Power coming right up!" signs if it were really about to come up in a strip or two. While V striking a deal with fiends is dramatic, IMO it's not dramatic enough for the kind of twist we're talking about here, especially with the Time Stop on.

Also, I stand by my opinion that "achieving" power implies actually having to work for that power.

My own wild theory on this:
If V takes the bargain, he can try to make the Soul Splice last for a very short time, to minimize the damage the fiends will cause once they decide to collect.
However, given that they have access to advanced Time Stop effects, the brevity of the Soul Splice is irrelevant.
Therefore, the other logical option is to ensure that the Soul Splice doesn't end. How, I have no idea, but let's say Vaarsuvius starts by seeking out magical items to increase his willpower.. XD

I think it would be dramatic, because of the high stakes of what would happen should the Soul Splice finally end - the fiends would likely have days upon days, if not longer, of control.

As for the story-breaking potential... Not necessarily. Suppose Vaarsuvius only needs to make checks to "hold on to it" as long as he is accessing the power of these three souls. As in, he's fine while he's doing his own spellcasting, but try to teleport? Roll a save to keep a hold on the Splice. That way, V would still be technically in posession of Complete and Total Ultimate Arcane Power (if the Soul Splice can indeed be considered that, which is not definitive), but unable to use it at his whim.

[Spiky]

"...Could be considered..."

Rich doesn't have to stretch, people. If his plan was for Vaarsuvius to gain complete and total ultimate arcane power by speaking to three beings the prophecy would have said "beings."
Nobody has to stretch, there are many ways this can be singular. V could simply address the last fiend to speak, or whatever. Forum-goers like to make things complicated when there's no reason.

[SteveDJ]

I would have to argue that the right four words have not been spoken yet. The deal currently being brokered is of limited duration and so is not "ultimate" as I see it.

Ultimate means there cannot be any greater arcane power. My argument then is that arcane power with an unlimited duration would be greater than one that is limited, so the limited version cannot be ultimate.

The right four words will either be spoken in a situation unrelated to the current one, or else V will attempt to amend the deal to make the increased power permanent and in doing so utter the right four words, etc.

Feel free to kick that idea around. I think it has its merits.

If I'm reading that right, I think you are saying what I was just thinking and came here to suggest:

Once V accepts the offer (not with the 4 words), that now V will have more power than these fiends currently have. It would be quite possible for V to cast some spell or incantation, consisting of 4 words, destroying the fiends (so he has nobody to pay back) and/or in some other way binding the splice forever, and without all the nasty side-effects.

[GodotIsW8ing4U]

My guess? The words will come moments before the power. Possibly at the same time. I suspect a far more direct link than most apparently do. The specific words, of course, are in question.

Somehow, I doubt that the soul splice will provide truly ultimate arcane power, but I could be wrong, of course.

[Theork]

"Where do I sign?"

[Kaytara]

Four words: "Out of fudge ripple."
XD

[enarch3t]

"I love the Belkster"

[SupraGuy]

All of the prophesies so far have been very clear when they actually happen. not so much during hte build-up, but very much so in resolution.

There was much speculation about :belkar: 'causing' the death of :roy:, '':miko:'s stupid horse' at various points, particularly after :roy:'s death. All proved incorrect, as Death's little helper quite directly caused the Oracle to die. Not particularly permanently, but nevertheless...

Some things are a little more circumspect. :haley:'s gift horse was a matter of hot debate for a couple of strips, and there were plenty of reasons why that couldn't have been it at the time, too. It was. Nothing epic about it.

:vaarsuvius: could well be on the way for a mundane phrase.

I am, however, MUCH more interested in the price of reuniting the team.

Okay, Consider this. :vaarsuvius: has been almost killing him/herself trying to contact :haley: and bring the team back together. It's become a point of obsession, to put it mildly. Enter the Fiends.

:vaarsuvius: will, of course, want to save his/her family, but when this power comes to be, may realise that his/her will is not what it would have been with a good amount of rest. Faced with phenomenal cosmic power for a very limited time, :vaarsuvius: realises that there is a choice to be made.

1. Save the family.

2. Reunite the party in hopes of saving all of existence.

Thus the reuniting of the party comes are a very real and very life-changing cost.

It's not like :vaarsuvius:'s family has been all that critical to the plot before, right?

So this fulfills 2 prophesies. 1. All the wrong reasons. Though a good reason, it would then be NOT the reason that the power gets used for. 2. A terrible and tragic price to pay before the party is reunited.

[Aaron]

I think the four words are coming up very soon. However, I think their is a slight chance the Giant won't reveal the words for another hundred strips or so...:smallconfused:

[Morgan Wick]

I'm inclined to believe that the answer is neither, and that we are simply playing amongst ourselves, the giant oblivious to our presence on the playground. It has been stated that the giant intentionally avoids reading many things out of a desire to not become influenced by ideas. While it does seem apparent he has injected things into the strips just to make us squirm, it could just as likely be a result of our desire to be included in the Giant's world that we assume he sets these kind of things out for us to play with.

I can see Rich skimming threads and putting into play running gags or discussions (a la dispelling the idea of Miko being resurrected). However, something that pretty much cinches a plot device already developed by Mr. Burlew is not something I would assume he would just randomly drop in, or toy with us on.

Once upon a time, I would have agreed with you completely with the possible exception of giving him even as much as the first sentence of the second paragraph. But...




9) Read forum responses. Be gratified at 80% of the responses. Shrug shoulders at the 20% who think it's "filler" or "not funny". Groan in pain at two or three multi-page threads over a controversy that never entered your mind at all when you wrote it.
...
Step #9 you pretty much nailed, though. :smallwink:

(I really only read a handful of responses to each strip, though, to make sure that the ideas were properly communicated and I didn't do something like use a colloquialism in my punchline that 99.9% of the world doesn't get.)
...I'm a little more skeptical.

[TARINunit9]

(After reading Comic 634)

Aww Crap! My totally legit theory (which was posted a few pages ago) just got annihilated! :smallfrown:

Well, I said I knew it was Rich's comic, I meant it, and I stand by it. :smallsigh:

[silas the monk]

I think the four words are coming up very soon. However, I think their is a slight chance the Giant won't reveal the words for another hundred strips or so...:smallconfused:

After #634 I think it becomes clear that there are no single "four words". There are many four word quotes that have been used that could be those intended. My favourite is "I require power NOW" from #631. In terms of timing
it ought to be "I ... I must succeed" from #634. This is quite a clever one. The hesitation means that noone could have foreseen it. However it does not
actually deliver ultimate arcane power - touching the blue ball did that.

The really clever thing about lots of four word combinations being perfectly good candidates for those four words, is that lots of people can be right without cutting off discussion. We also have a precedent in that the Oracle was able to come up with many interpretations of how the prophecy had been fulfilled, although admittedly none of them satisfied Belkar.

[Snake-Aes]

Think a little about it.
Based on what we have already seen, and the ominous title. Why can't the right words just represent the wrong reason?
The devils+demons+whatevers were right. Their idea of how to solve the deal without using the pact is clever enough to work. But doing so meant failing on his own studies and accepting a weakness.

He wants to save his family.
The method of choice, however, was chosen out of pride.

[silas the monk]

I agree with all of that but it does not pinpoint the four words and I don't believe anything ever will. The wrong reasons are now however beyond dispute as you indicate - Varsuvius' pride in his-her studies.

[Snake-Aes]

Kinda dubious if the words are of any significant by themselves or if they are actually any specific, for the speculation will last forever just like people bother pinpointing subtle details. We can clearly see V is going to get a LOT of arcane power, and the whole thing is really just the perfect setup for those prophecies.