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Frosty
2009-02-14, 12:39 AM
I need a bit of advice on a build for an Elven Ranger that uses the PHB and DMG only. I'll probably go ranged style since TWF sucks without bonus damage from SA or Skirmish. Should I bother PrCing? I'm thinking maybe 6 levels of Horizon Walker or just 20 levels of Ranger. I've never really played a ranger before so I'm not sure what to do with it. We're starting at level 2, so I can at least afford a MW composite longbow or something. I only get one feat, so I'll likely be taking Point Blank Shot or something.

Keld Denar
2009-02-14, 02:46 AM
Since you get most of your feats for free, try focusing on STR instead of DEX so much. Get a Composite Long Bow for the strongest pull you can get. As a level 2 Ranger, you get PB at level 1, and Rapid Shot at 2. Take Precise at 3 and then whatever tickles your fancy. Don't forget you get spells starting from level 4. Entangle is still uber broken at level 4, so that should be your spell of choice. Unforunately, your spell selection without Spell Compendium is pretty much crap, but with a little creativity, you could go a long way.

Hopefully you'll have a Bard or similar in your group to help you get some bonus damage on your attacks.

Oh, and buy non-magical arrows of various DR penetrating materials, if you can. A stack of 50 Silver and 50 Cold Iron shouldn't be out of your price range at level 2, and you'll want to get a stack of 50 Adamantine ones by about level 4 if possible. Get your bow enhanced with Holy, and you'll be able to overcome every DR but DR/-, which is the ultimate downfall of any archer character.

It might also be worth it to put ranks crossclass in UMD. Sure, you won't be great at it, but you might make it worth while at least.

Frosty
2009-02-14, 03:18 AM
But would I be able to hit things if I neglected Dex?

Eldariel
2009-02-14, 03:31 AM
As long as your starting Dex is near maxed, it should be ok. Really, going Str-first instead of Dex-first is pretty smart for a non-bonus damage archer; a really inefficient, but ultimately usable Power Attack. If you can start with 18 in both, you can end up with:

34 Str
28 Dex (or 30 as an Elf)

Of course, that involves big two books so take it for what it's worth. Still, a fine array.

Temp.
2009-02-14, 04:35 AM
I tend to use Ranger/Barbarian if I want a sword and board build or Ranger/Rogue for an archer if I want the Ranger skillset.

For an archer, Rogue provides the fastest damage increases and, crossclassing Survival, leaves a character as one of the most versatile core skillmonkeys (covering both trapfinding and tracking jobs). Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot are all the feats you need to be effective with a 2-level Ranger dip.

If you're not ignoring multiclass penalties, Ranger 2/Rogue 3/Assassin 10/Whatever 5 is usually a pretty solid bet for a non-human. Loses some skills, but has alright damage.

There's just not much reason to stick with Ranger without multiclass feats or SpC... even Rogue covers its combat and skill roles better than it does after a short dip.

Fishy
2009-02-14, 06:00 AM
Low level PHB+DMG game? This looks like a job for the Horizon Tripper (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80415)!

I'd go Ranger 1/Fighter 1, with Combat Expertise and Improved Trip as your feats. It's different from a traditional ranger (Masterwork Guisarme?) but you're very useful in and out of combat.

Frosty
2009-02-14, 12:35 PM
Yeah I'm seriously considering Rogue, but wouldn't it be hard for me to gain Sneak Attack since I can't flank? I guess I can Hide a lot. Hmm...maybe a 2 level dip in Rogue and a one level Shadowdancer dip can help too.

Oh btw we know that we'll be fighting kobolds a LOT in this campaign, so I can safely pick most if not all of my Favored Enemies as Kobolds.

I thought about Horizon Tripper but I wanna do archery not melee for this character.

Spiryt
2009-02-14, 12:48 PM
The problem with ranged sneak attacker is 30 feet range.

This kinda ceases to be ranged anymore.

Harperfan7
2009-02-14, 09:03 PM
Well, if you know you are going to be fighting mostly kobolds, an archery focused ranger with high dex would be optimal.

Here's why
-kobolds are low hp, high ac
-archers have high attack bonus, but usually worse damage
-kobolds tend to attack from cover at a distance, and usually surround
-archers can stand in one spot and attack enemies all over the place, twf can't, once you get improved precise shot, cover doesn't count
-you won't need high strength since kobolds don't have much hp, you're favored enemy bonus should do the job
-focus on high attack bonus = high dex, mw bow, mw arrows (bonuses stack)

JonestheSpy
2009-02-14, 10:40 PM
If you're in a campaign that doesn't have magic items lying around everywhere, going for Arcana Archer can be fun - hey, you're already an elf, right? A level of wizard for a few True Strikes are pretty handy for an archer, and you avoud multiclassing penalties that way. Sorcerer would better for this build, but as an elf you're little screwed XPwise. Now if you plat a half-elf, you get the flexibility to take only a level or two of Sorcerer AND qualify for Arcane Archer - too bad Half Elves kinda suck otherwise.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-02-14, 10:50 PM
If you're in a campaign that doesn't have magic items lying around everywhere, going for Arcana Archer can be fun - hey, you're already an elf, right? A level of wizard for a few True Strikes are pretty handy for an archer, and you avoud multiclassing penalties that way. Sorcerer would better for this build, but as an elf you're little screwed XPwise. Now if you plat a half-elf, you get the flexibility to take only a level or two of Sorcerer AND qualify for Arcane Archer - too bad Half Elves kinda suck otherwise....
No. Even without magic items, any party should have a caster capable of casting GMW, which on it's own renders Enhance Arrow irrelevant. Imbue Arrow is mostly irrelevant as well; when was the last time 25+5[10] ft wasn't enough, and those are the shortest spells. Seeker and Phase Arrow sound nice, but all they really do is allow you to once a day shoot someone despite cover or walls. Not that good, since one arrow probably will only annoy and alert the enemy. Hail of arrows is nice, I'll give you, but the capstone is so much worse than a SoD spell that it's not even funny.

Eldariel
2009-02-14, 10:54 PM
Imbue Arrow is actually quite handy since it can be used to toss Anti-Magic Fields around, but that requires the ability to cast Anti-Magic Field, which is a level 6 spell; a minimum of 11 Wizard-levels required to make anything worthwhile out of the class. And Hail of Arrows isn't that amazing; it's capped to your class level so it's practically never more than two full attacks and that's against masses of enemy in open open area. And it's still 1/day. Really, when they made arrow enhancement bonus not stack with bow bonus, they effectively obsoleted Arcane Archer (and even without it, casting Greater Magic Weapon on a bunch of arrows is still so much more economical).

So yea, not a class for Ranger. Ranger's abilities far overpower Arcane Archer's.

Frosty
2009-02-15, 02:23 AM
Eww to arcane Archer. If Arcane Archer actually advanced your spellcaster like 8/10, it'd be a worthy class.

Eldariel
2009-02-15, 10:25 AM
Even then, it'd only have one relevant class feature making Eldritch Knight likely better.