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ChibiStacey
2009-02-14, 05:28 AM
Hi all, wondering if you guys could give me a bit of advice.

I'm playing in a 3.5 Greyhawk game, and I've statted a kobold sorceror gish, with a rust monster as a familiar (using the Improved Familiar feat; I know it's not listed as one but my GM seemed to think it was cool). My intention being to do mounted combat and have a bit of a quirky mount.

At the game last night I was made to roll lots of handle animal checks to stop my rust monster from eating every single metal thing in sight. I was very tired and I'm not one to argue with the GM at all (and luckily I passed each roll) so I didn't really address it at the time but looking back I think this may have been incorrect (which is why I need your opinions).

So I wonder: 1) How much 'control' do you rule your wizard has over her familiar (would you be able to supress it's natural instincts etc) and what rolls would you require for this?

2) For a familiar as a mount, how would you go about controlling it? I know for intelligent mounts it's technically supposed to be diplomacy checks, but again I always thought the the wizard and her familiar worked towards a common goal (although I'd like to hear your views on this)

Thanks in advance!

BobVosh
2009-02-14, 05:50 AM
Familiars are magically linked to their masters. In some sense, the
familiar and the master are practically one being.

No real raw on this, but according to above I would say you have exact control with it. I mean, you even telepathically talk to the dang thing. Also it is a huge liability if it gets killed, and normally a rather weak link. However, rust monsters are a bit sturdier than a squirrel or whatever. What level is the game?

Arcane_Snowman
2009-02-14, 06:03 AM
I can't seem to find anything pertaining information about controlling your familiar, but given that it's been listed several places that the wizard is the Familiar's Master (you also have the capability to actually Speak with the familiar, which further enforces that you "command" it instead of just giving it empathic suggestions), also you Summon a familiar, which to me signifies together with the bonus on skills, the sharing of Hit Points, skills, save etc., the fact that you can communicate with the familiar and that you loose experience, that it is in fact an extension of yourself and thus incapable of disobeying an order given by you.

Also, Animal Companion text specifically states that it's just a companion. On the other hand, given that Animal Companion specifically has an entry linked to Handle Animal and the lack of need to use it other than to teach the animal tricks, one could argue that the familiar would need a similar entry to not need the use of Handle Animal.

Stephen_E
2009-02-14, 06:12 AM
I agree you DM was been unreasonable.

If the Rust Monster was simply a cohort or mount he would've been correct but if we look at trhe PHB and SRD -
PHB - pg 52 Familiars 1st line - "Familiars are magically linked to their masters. In some sense , the familiar and master are practically one being.

SRD - The creature serves as a companion and servant.

All this makes it pretty unlikely that the Rust Monster familiar would have to be constantly restrained, so long as you reguly feed it. A magical haversack with metal ignots would be a good idea. Occasionally summon a Wall of Iron and allow it to pig out to its hearts content and no ride checks to restrain it should ever be necessary.

I suggest you talk to your GM out of game pointing these things out. If you're uncomfortable doing it in person use email.

Stephen E

Sir Giacomo
2009-02-14, 10:44 AM
Hi,

the familiar should in theory be played by the DM like all creatures that are not pcs.
However, I guess in the case of a familiar it is most practical due to the special bond (and higher INT of the familiar than that of an animal) that the player should run it.

In no case the rules back up that you need a handle animal check - that is for handling animals only and familiars are magical beasts. So the DM houseruled there and imo in an impractical way.

- Giacomo

ChibiStacey
2009-02-14, 10:54 AM
It's a 10th level game. I also thought it could be a little overpowered which is why I asked my GM before I finalised the character - she really liked the idea and let me go for it. Also overusing the rust monster's ability would probably get me into a lot of trouble with my loot-hungry party!

I'm not worried about chatting to my GM about this - we get on very well - but I'm really against questioning the GM's decision in-game and I like to see other people's opinions before I mention it because I can be a bit of a powergamer!

I think it's clear that handle animal isn't the right skill, I think at worst it would be a diplomacy, and hopefully I'll be able to convince her that as long as I keep it well fed it shouldn't be too much of a problem (I had already bought a bag of holding filled with iron ingots!)

Any other views on this would still be appreciated! Another thing that hasn't come up yet is directing my familiar in combat - in the rules it says you use diplomacy instead of ride for intelligent mounts but again, does it make sense this would apply to a familiar (or a more normal example - the Paladin's mount). It doesn't sit well with me you have to diplome with your servant / holy gift to get it to do things in combat.

Urthdigger
2009-02-14, 09:08 PM
As others have said: It's a familiar. The most I've ever had a familiar do so far as disobeying goes was make jokes at the master's expense and the occasional snide comment. I've always declared that the familiar is completely controlled by the player, essentially a second character they have that's of a far lower level than the rest of the party.

Thurbane
2009-02-14, 10:46 PM
Would a Wizard with a hawk familiar have to constantly roll Handle Animal checks to stop it from trying to eat the rat familiar of the other party Wizard? If the answer is no, then similar should apply in the case of the rust monster familiar, and the party's metallic gear.

On the other hand, as per rule 0, the DMs decision is final. After all, he did allow you to go outside RAW and take a familiar not listed in any of the books...

Stephen_E
2009-02-14, 11:38 PM
As a general note looking at the Improved Familiars a Rust Monster isn't overpowered for a 10th lev caster.

Compare it to a Winter Wolf, Hippogriff or Howler and it's quite reasonable.
Indeed it seems more on line with a Hellhound which requires CL5 BAB 5 which you should meet at 10th level.

As a note regarding Animal Companion specifically saying you don't have total control over it. The Familiar was the longstanding default for creature companions. The fact that the "new" Animal Companion feature points out that this requires Animal Handling checks implies that the default situation doesn't.

As for diplomacy/ride for intelligent monts. Reread the section. It isn't talking about using diplomacy instead of ride. It's talking about working out what sort of service it'll give before you get into combat. In the same way that if you hire a NPC follower you have to work and when she will/won't fight. In this situation that should be particuly relevant since it's your familiar. You still have to use the ride skill when in combat (that's why it has the note about needing to train together after succeeding on the diplomacy).

I would suggest you buy it either magical leather armour or leather bracers of AC (practical bracers were traditionally often made of leather so that shouldn't be a problem). Wooden or leather rings of protection will probably have to be made to order, but are well worth it. Amulets of NAC won't be a problem. Remember having your familiar die is unpleasant, if you use it in combat you want to increase it's chance of survival to the max. Share Greater Mage Armour and Shield with it all the time.

Base AC 18
Greater Mage Armour and Shield +10
Amulet of NAC +2
Ring or Protection +2
Cat's grace +2
Total AC 34 - reasonable survivability. Sharing Stone skin is also worth a mention.

See if you can teach it Weapon Finnesse with it's antenna. It seems a realistic finnesse weapon.

Stephen E