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jeek
2009-02-15, 07:45 AM
One of my party mates desperately wants this feat chain by level 12:


Feat route: (Add two points in Dex by level 12, as she currently has 17)
L1: Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Weapon Focus (Comp longbow)
L2: Dodge or Precise Shot, depending on needs
L3: Precise Shot or Dodge, depending on needs
L4: Weapon Specialization (Comp longbow)
L6: Mobility, Manyshot
L8: Greater Weapon Focus (Comp longbow)
L9: Far Shot
L10: Shot on the Run
L12: Improved Precise Shot, Greater Weapon Spec. (Comp longbow)


His plan is to play a human archer, focused primary on archery. The rest of the party consists of two Kobold Warlocks (one going Eldritch Theurge and the other Eldritch Disciple), an Underfolk Factotum, and a Xeph Favored Soul. Taking into account concerns such as visibility (everyone else has darkvision), arrow supply and lack of maneuverability, is there a way to make this character concept work?

edit: He asked me to mention that the campaign hasn't started, yet.

PinkysBrain
2009-02-15, 08:28 AM
Fighter archer with shot on the run ... seriously? Sorry, I don't buy it.

endoperez
2009-02-15, 08:29 AM
He should be able to craft any arrows he needs. If arrows are DC 10, end result of 10 would be enough to craft 20 arrows in a single day.

jeek
2009-02-15, 08:35 AM
He should be able to craft any arrows he needs. If arrows are DC 10, end result of 10 would be enough to craft 20 arrows in a single day.

Doesn't he need raw materials to do so?

Saph
2009-02-15, 08:41 AM
Doesn't he need raw materials to do so?

Yes. The WLD is a powergamer's worst nightmare when it comes to equipment. You're lucky if you can even find a chain shirt, much less any items on your wish list.

An archer in the WLD is going to have a pretty hard time of it. Visibility is awful, doors, walls, and allies will be blocking your shots all the time, and your arrow supply will dwindle scarily fast. If you can survive long enough to get Improved Precise Shot you'll be able to start ignoring the cover penalties, but good luck making it that far. :)

- Saph

Bayar
2009-02-15, 09:24 AM
He should make an Archeficier then. he can convert stuff into XP and with a bit of help from the DM, convert items into raw material following the same rules :smallbiggrin:

Triaxx
2009-02-15, 10:38 AM
Doors have both metal and wood unless otherwise specified. I haven't played WLD before though, so I'm not sure about the doors.

Kyouhen
2009-02-15, 11:51 AM
Doors have both metal and wood unless otherwise specified. I haven't played WLD before though, so I'm not sure about the doors.

I ran it not too long ago. Party didn't get very far but then again that's mostly my fault. (I allowed one to be a vampire. He turned the rogue into a vampire, the rogue decided it was invincible and picked a fight he couldn't win, then got lost trying to find it's way back to it's coffin. The other vampire bit the dust (hehe) during the finale for that area.) Doors are generally made of wood there. It also isn't too difficult to find other wooden objects, so as long as they bring their own arrow-making tools in they should be fine. Don't expect to find any more of said tools though, so they'd better be careful with them.:smalltongue:

Mad Wizard
2009-02-15, 12:32 PM
It's also going to partially depend on your DM. If he has you keep track of all your ammo, you might have some trouble in that regard. The one time I played through part of the WLD, one of our party members was an archer, and he didn't have any problem being useful in combat, although none of our PCs were optimized in any way, and the DM didn't worry too much about ammo.

snoopy13a
2009-02-15, 12:37 PM
Why Farshot? It doesn't seem too useful in a dungeon.

As for arrow supply, can't you have the party fight bow using enemies along the way so the archer can loot off of them? If every third or so encounter has an archer who carries 50 arrows in a quiver, supply shouldn't be a problem.

Draz74
2009-02-15, 12:57 PM
Soulbow is possibly a good way to get around ammo problems. And be a better archer than a Fighter, anyway.

Mindstab_Thrull
2009-02-15, 03:45 PM
Hi, I'm the player in question. Hopefully I can answer a question or two.

The reason for the specific feat list is this: I had a character design in mind and have been wanting to play it *somewhere* for a couple years now. I found that a Human Fighter is able to pick up the entire Weapon Focus tree *and* the entire Point Blank Shot tree by level 12, including the required Dodge and Mobility feats. (See the table listed in jeek's initial post.) When I heard that this campaign was designed for long-term play, I figured it would be a good chance to actually try it. It's a concept I've only seen one person try to do, but to be honest, he had to be led by the hand, and in any event, it didn't get very far.

One other thing jeek mentioned, but I should expand on, is that we haven't even started the game yet - we've so far had one person who was going to DM it and decided he wanted to play instead, and then another DM who really wasn't too keen on it in the first place. So, any DM-domain questions (how much does he pay attention to ammo, what skill is used for arrowmaking, etc) we can't answer at this point.

Triaxx and Kyouhen have both touched on a point I was attempting to get across. This being a rather large complex (from what I hear, this is probably the world's biggest understatement), object like doors, barrels, tables, chairs and such should be easy to find. Thus, finding enough wood to make more arrows, and recovering the occasional missed shot, really shouldn't be an issue. If a wood elf ranger is able to make his own bow and arrows from what he finds in the woods and relatively minimal gear (rangers finding mobility, and as a result, lightweight rather important), I really don't see the matter of making them a big challenge. Arrows cost five copper each; there should be enough wood - and, hopefully eventually, enough 'real' arrows - to keep him supplied.

The topic of arrowheads came up in previous conversations before the question was brought here. The way I see it, if an arrow is 'spent' via combat, chances are it's the shaft that'll be destroyed; the head is made of sturdier materials, as it occasionally has to try and puncture anything from chain mail to dragonhide. I would suggest that the heads would be reusable, and likely the fletchings as well, a few times each before needing actual replacements. Again, DM's discretion on how reusable they are; hopefully we can have that answered soon.

One other thing - the races jeek listed weren't the 'original' makeup of the party, but I think (I might be misremembering here) I was the only one who'd fully solidified a plan for my character insofar as race, class, and where she planned on going.

Zenos
2009-02-15, 04:21 PM
Okay, but, do you need Distant shot in a dungeon? I am now just wondering if you need it for the build.

Kyouhen
2009-02-15, 06:29 PM
Okay, but, do you need Distant shot in a dungeon? I am now just wondering if you need it for the build.

Without spoiling anything there WILL be uses for it in the dungeon. :smalltongue:

So you guys don't have a DM right now?

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2009-02-15, 06:38 PM
I don't know what books are allowed for WLD or for this particular game, so some/all of this advice may be irrelevant.

Any good Fighter Archer should have the PH2 feats Ranged Weapon Mastery and Penetrating Shot. Manyshot is only worth getting if you have enough damage bonus effects to make Greater Manyshot (XPH) decent, or if you're going to get Improved Rapid Shot (CW), otherwise it's a wasted feat. Shot on the Run isn't good on anything but a Swift Hunter, if you want something like that go with a Raptoran or Dragonborn or even a Dragonwrought Kobold with Dragon Wings to get Flyby Attack, it's just as good and you save two feats.

The absolute best thing I can think for you to do is get Ancestral Relic (BoED) and make it your bow. Get a value for every stick of furniture, every statue, every door, chest, and trap you find, and anything else that could be worth something that you can't carry away and sell. Sacrifice everything you can to add value to your ancestral relic, there's no limit to its stored value even though there is one on what properties it can have. Whenever the party is going to sell/trade loot for less than its value, offer to buy/trade it from the party for that lesser cost, then sacrifice its full value into your relic. That way you can get anything you want on it, be it Seeking, Speed, Exit Wound, Thundering, etc. You can even reassign its properties, so if you're going into an area with quite a few of the same types of creatures, put the Bane property on it until you're through that. There was a bow in an article at WotC that magically creates an arrow whenever it's drawn, so it doesn't require any ammunition. Make your relic a copy of that if you can, and then add additional enhancements/properties on top of it.

In hypothetical tests a Fighter Archer with ideal gear within WBL deals more damage than a Cleric Archer. Without ideal gear, any Fighter is a fairly weak choice in comparison to a spellcaster who can reliably get the right buffs. If you can't use Ancestral Relic, Cleric would definitely be a better choice for an archer for this game.

Nohwl
2009-02-15, 07:14 PM
Yes. The WLD is a powergamer's worst nightmare when it comes to equipment. You're lucky if you can even find a chain shirt, much less any items on your wish list.

that just means you build a character that is item independent.

kjones
2009-02-15, 08:23 PM
that just means you build a character that is item independent.

Easier said than done, and it limits somewhat the kind of character you can make. Most fighter-types specialized around a single kind of weapon (bow, for example :smalltongue:) will be severely hampered if the module doesn't happen to have a nice one lying around. Likewise for armor.

Being "item independent" really favors casters - they might not get their precious stat-boosters, or some material components for specialized stuff, but they'll be OK.

jeek
2009-02-15, 09:21 PM
Without spoiling anything there WILL be uses for it in the dungeon. :smalltongue:

So you guys don't have a DM right now?

We had a DM in December, but we never managed to get started. The only week the DM showed up was the week we weren't scheduled to play, and then everyone but the DM showed up the other three weeks.

We have a new prospective DM, so if he goes for it, we should be getting started, soon.

Paul H
2009-02-22, 04:46 PM
Hi

Try going for Kensai. That way you can upgrade your Bow for just some XP.

Currently playing in WLD campaign locally. In ours the sharpshooting was done by couple Halfling brothers - one's a Rogue/Warlock (now dead), the other is a Warlock/Rogue. He simply uses his Spiderclimb to hang from roof & Eldritch everything.

Took CWI for my Cleric. BIG mistake - very few places safe enough to 'waste' a day creating Everlasting Ration packs. When we did find them the other players didn't want to waste the time. (Even though it takes no extra time for the players...)

Cheers
Paul H

Frosty
2009-02-22, 05:02 PM
I think one of the safest bets for this dungeon from what I've heard is to be a Warforged Crusader. You can literally keep on going ALL day long without need for rest or food or water or even air. You can repair yourself if need be, and you can always heal yourself and others with the right Maneuvers.