3rd party monsters

[Thrawn183]

Okay, so unfortunately some of my players have managed to memorize all of the monster manuals. I'm currently looking into throwing some Iron Heroes monsters at the party because one of my players is playing an IH character (and just happens therefor to have the books :smallbiggrin:)

Where can I find other monsters that would be balanced with 3.5 that the party wouldn't be able to recognize?

[Oslecamo]

Just change the monster's aspects and names. Looks like a dinossaur, but it's actually a rune hound. Looks like a golem, but it's actually an earth elemental. Looks like a zombie, but it's actually an aberration. Ect, ect.

Remember to also change the attacks' aspects to still keep them in confusion. Metagame that!

[kjones]

Look no further than our own homebrew forums.

[RTGoodman]

Some sources for new monsters:

-Necromancer Games has a book (3.0) and PDF (3.5) called the Tome of Horrors (http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=3019&it=1), which is filled with old (1E/2E) monster updated to the 3.x rules, plus all-new monsters. It's DEFINITELY worth buying, and is my personal favorite bit of 3rd-party publishing EVER. There are a couple of sequels (Tome of Horrors 2 and 3, I think), but I haven't looked at them and don't know how good they are.

-Vorpal Tribble - he's a member here, and has like a bajillion monsters, all of them excellent. Use whatever you'd like from his Monstravaganza (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88905) from here in the Playground, or his Creations Thread (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=831058) over on the WotC boards.

-In a similar vein, check out the creatures made for VT's Homebrew Monster Competitions (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5578957&postcount=1). (Scroll down to the spoilered monster list to see them, or use the links above that to go by theme.) Some might not be up to par, but in general they go from good to very good.

-The homebrew boards in general. A LOT of people have done homebrew, so just search around and see what you can find.

[Thrawn183]

Good lord, how could I forget our honorable homebrew boards? I mean, I've even PM'd Mr. Tribble about his creations. Now I feel like I've been taking you guys for granted, my bad. :smallfrown:

[afroakuma]

Look no further than our own homebrew forums.

Amen to that.

[Kyouhen]

Bring back that one old creature. It looks like a beholder, smells like a beholder, moves like a beholder, but when you strike it you get a face full of toxic gas instead.

[BRC]

Refluffing monsters is also a neat trick against this sort of thing. Take an Owlbear, and call it "A really big bear", there is essentially no difference. Or heck, even mix up the names of real monsters Ghost, Spectre and Wraith may apply to different monsters in DnD, but in terms of description they mean pretty much the same thing.

[Animefunkmaster]

Out of curiosity, am I the only one who doesn't think this is such a big deal? At my gaming tables we tend to roll for initiative and knowledge checks on just about everything we fight, some high rollers might get good Intel, while others not so much. If they are supposed to be experienced adventurers or have a knowledge guru, I don't see a problem in the players knowing: Monster has what good/bad saves good/bad grapple attack bonus, immunities and on a good roll weaknesses.

The more the players know the more you can use this to your advantage. At any level, ropers are nasty... multiple touch attacks, 2d8 strength drain... ouch. Now what do those look like? trees? stalagmites? Something that blends in? You can easily describe a terrain as shadowy, with a mention of ropers, you can start fueling fear in the players as every bend could hold nearly instant death.

Retooling templates or one or two class levels or feats could give a nasty surprise to any player. Anything with tentacles can be appear to be an aboleth (or elder brain). The spells Echo Skull (MoF) and Unseen Servant makes something that resembles a demilich... my players came up with this one. Anything that is squishy that has any kind of illusions, like an Arenea, can make something seem easy to beat or "way beyond our cr" scary to goad the characters into falling into deeper traps.

[kjones]

Out of curiosity, am I the only one who doesn't think this is such a big deal? At my gaming tables we tend to roll for initiative and knowledge checks on just about everything we fight, some high rollers might get good Intel, while others not so much. If they are supposed to be experienced adventurers or have a knowledge guru, I don't see a problem in the players knowing: Monster has what good/bad saves good/bad grapple attack bonus, immunities and on a good roll weaknesses.

The more the players know the more you can use this to your advantage. At any level, ropers are nasty... multiple touch attacks, 2d8 strength drain... ouch. Now what do those look like? trees? stalagmites? Something that blends in? You can easily describe a terrain as shadowy, with a mention of ropers, you can start fueling fear in the players as every bend could hold nearly instant death.

Retooling templates or one or two class levels or feats could give a nasty surprise to any player. Anything with tentacles can be appear to be an aboleth (or elder brain). The spells Echo Skull (MoF) and Unseen Servant makes something that resembles a demilich... my players came up with this one. Anything that is squishy that has any kind of illusions, like an Arenea, can make something seem easy to beat or "way beyond our cr" scary to goad the characters into falling into deeper traps.

This is my other suggestion. If they know every creature in the MM, they'll start jumping at shadows... then, when they let their guard down, you strike. Also, class levels are your best friend. Add them to anything (anyone have that gelatinous cube with monk levels?) for fun and profit. "These are just kobolds, guys, nothing to worry abouAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH!"

[Woodsman]

"These are just kobolds, guys, nothing to worry abouAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH!"

I have to say, I was commenting on how stunningly easy kobolds are (back when I was more inexperienced), when my friend (and far more experienced player at the time) told me "You've never been in their cramped little mines surrounded by their traps with them outnumbering you about 20-1, have you?"

After reading Races of the Dragon, I saw what he was talking about.

[Thrawn183]

Yeah, I sent a gelatinous cube, very advanced in HD, at them. I believe it was a CR 10. Unfortunately, paralysis doesn't really do anything to psions. Other than that it would have actually been a pretty tough encounter because the party didn't actually bother taking advantage of the terrain or the fact that it has no int score.

My point is that monsters that have death throes? Magically all the characters except the main meleer seem to hold back a bit on those fights. I'm not even saying its intentional all of the time, as I think it probably isn't. Its just annoying when a PC targets an earth elementals reflex save and an air elementals fortitude save without needing to make a check or experiment because they already know how the monsters work. I have a player who is the very definition of a newbie and it puts her at an extreme disadvantage and from my conversations with her I think it makes her have a little less fun as a result.

[RTGoodman]

My point is that monsters that have death throes? Magically all the characters except the main meleer seem to hold back a bit on those fights. I'm not even saying its intentional all of the time, as I think it probably isn't. Its just annoying when a PC targets an earth elementals reflex save and an air elementals fortitude save without needing to make a check or experiment because they already know how the monsters work.

That's why, when I DM, I strictly enforce the "make a Knowledge check or you know jack squat about this thing" rule. If they still try to metagame after that, I can generally count on at least one or two other players to call 'em out and embarrass them into playing IC as they're supposed to.

Now, as far as saves go, OCCASIONALLY you can let 'em go with targeting weak defenses. If you see a big hulking thing that's lumbering around, it's probably a safe bet that it has a low Reflex save, and you can be a Wizard (defined by his Intelligence) could figure that out. But otherwise, yeah, call 'em out or use some homebrewed, refluffed, or third-party sources.

[Waspinator]

The two Iron Kingdoms Monsternomicons are pretty neat, as is the Warcraft Manual of Monsters.
http://www.wowwiki.com/Manual_of_Monsters

[Nohwl]

Okay, so unfortunately some of my players have managed to memorize all of the monster manuals. I'm currently looking into throwing some Iron Heroes monsters at the party because one of my players is playing an IH character (and just happens therefor to have the books :smallbiggrin:)

Where can I find other monsters that would be balanced with 3.5 that the party wouldn't be able to recognize?

how long did it take them to memorize all of the monsters? ive been thinking about trying to.

anyway, changing he descriptions of attacks and monsters seems like it would be easiest.