Did V go a little overboard here?

[Logalmier]

So in comic 626 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0626.html) we see V using up 4 6th level spells. On an imp.

Is Vaarsuvius going a bit far here? Why would V use the majority of her high level spells against a lowly imp, when it would have been much more practical to blast the imp with a lightning bolt? Did V want to intimidate the Qarr? Thoughts?

[Evil DM Mark3]

Well, when was the last time you where thinking clearly, tired and angry all at once?

[Raging Gene Ray]

Spell Levels are kind of like new toys: you want to play around with them as much as possible, and they seem so much better than all your older toys/lower level spells. The older ones seem useless now in comparison...you begin to wonder how you EVER could have derived any sort of enjoyment from something so primitive.

In short even though Fireball would have worked, V now viewed it as a spell for lowly startups.

Oh, and there's the whole tired and angry and wanting to smash a fly with a sledgehammer thing.

[Kreistor]

As an outsider type (covers demons, devils, angels, etc.), the imp would have resistances or even immunities to elemental damage (fire, cold, electricity, acid). Using any of these without specific knowledge of the creature in question is risky, as the spell may do no damage.

Further, it appears that the Giant's outsiders are atypical, with different resistances than the MM would indicate, to the point that each may be entirely unique. In other words, V can't expect elemental spells to harm the creature at all.

[Raging Gene Ray]

As an outsider type (covers demons, devils, angels, etc.), the imp would have resistances or even immunities to elemental damage (fire, cold, electricity, acid).

I never thought about that...still, there are plenty of lower level Force spells V could have used.

[hobbitkniver]

2 things to say.

Qarr is its name right?

V was in a depressionistick :smallsmile: rage and couldn't think cleary as he/she was frustrated with his/her inability to contact Haley.

[Logalmier]

As an outsider type (covers demons, devils, angels, etc.), the imp would have resistances or even immunities to elemental damage (fire, cold, electricity, acid). Using any of these without specific knowledge of the creature in question is risky, as the spell may do no damage.

Further, it appears that the Giant's outsiders are atypical, with different resistances than the MM would indicate, to the point that each may be entirely unique. In other words, V can't expect elemental spells to harm the creature at all.

I'd go with that, except theirs a difference between resistances and immunities. Even if Qarr had resistance 10 to lightning a blast from a high level mage like V could have killed him. Average imps have like what, 14 hit points? From the previous comic it sounds like Qarr has some extra sorcerer levels, but still it would only amount to V needing about 2 lightning bolts to kill him.

[hamishspence]

whether V has "gone a little overboard" may not be as important if you're of the opinion that V went completely overboard a while back and is now stuck in the middle of the ocean miles from anywhere- can't get much more overboard than that :smallamused:

[Flickerdart]

whether V has "gone a little overboard" may not be as important if you're of the opinion that V went completely overboard a while back and is now stuck in the middle of the ocean miles from anywhere- can't get much more overboard than that :smallamused:
Well, considering that V was on board of a ship, and did not exit through traditional means, we can definitely say that he went overboard. :smallbiggrin:

[Vemynal]

Oh, and there's the whole tired and angry and wanting to smash a fly with a sledgehammer thing.

actually its a lot of fun^^

[King of Nowhere]

V believes he will never have to fight more than one encounter per day. ** explains it to Elan after a random encounter before the bandit's arc.

[The Bookworm]

More than one random encounter, anyway. The Dragon is a plot, not random.

[Kaytara]

In addition to the random encounter logic, there wasn't really a reason NOT to waste his high-level destructive spells, either. At this point, Vaarsuvius wasn't technically bound by the need to protect someone close to him or anything. Even without the Disintegrates, his spells would've been sufficient to either defeat or evade just about any regular monster that came at him. Meaning, what he couldn't crisp, he'd be able to fly away from. One little island is as good as the next.

He can't be faulted for not having seen a vengeful Ancient Black Dragon with Anti-Magic Field coming after him.

[Zevox]

As an outsider type (covers demons, devils, angels, etc.), the imp would have resistances or even immunities to elemental damage (fire, cold, electricity, acid).
Actually, no, he doesn't. Imps only come with resist 5 fire.

And anyway, you'd think after the first shot or two missed she'd have gone for some Magic Missiles at least. No miss chance, potent enough to take down an Imp in a few shots even if he has class levels like he claims.

Zevox

[magic9mushroom]

If you give imps the Baatezu subtype, which would seem appropriate given the advancement table in Tyrants of the Nine Hells, then they're immune to fire, and have resistance to acid 10 and cold 10.

I agree that Disintegrate wasn't the right spell for the job, though. For one thing, imps are hard to hit, so something that always hits would be better, e.g. Cone of Cold or Prismatic Spray.

[Often Normal]

The Imp took a disintegrate to the chest (eventually) and is still alive. Elemental spells have "reflex for half", disintegrate doesn't. All in all I think V went for the "remove the distraction in minimum about of time = maximum force" as a deserted island is not the place you'd expect encounters (why it was chosen in the first place).

[Zeitgeist]

I don't see the problem.

V is on a desert island. The only "enemy" V would ever expect to see that day was an Imp. He wanted to kill the imp. Why would he use weak spells? Using more powerful spells is a better way to ensure he got the job done (and apparently he didn't). Why would he not use his best spells on the only encounter he's expecting? In fact, it would be very inefficient to use weak spells, and then he's NEVER use his high level spells that day.

Furthermore, how can it be considered overboard if the imp, yanno, is still alive afterwards?

[Terry576]

There is no such thing as overboard/overkill. There is shooting and I need to reload.

[magic9mushroom]

There is no such thing as overboard/overkill. There is shooting and I need to reload.

Correction:

Rule 37: There is no "Overkill". There is only "Open fire!" and "I need to reload.".

That said, Disintegrate simply isn't the right tool for the job, as other spells would have killed the imp faster.

[King of Nowhere]

Given the miss chance, i think the combo maximized magic missle + quickened magic missle would have been a better choice.

[Kurald Galain]

I Think He Failed A Spot Check (tm).

[Tensu]

well first off, V is on a desert island and needs to eat. disintegrate can neither catch nor cook fish as fireball or lightning could. since V is barred from conjuration, he needs spells to catch fish.

second, he's performing magical research and trying to create new divination spells, as well as the spells he's saving for island hopping (flight, etc.) that's got to take up a few slots.

third, V seems in denial that not trancing is inhibiting his accuracy. the imp was the only monster on the island and he probably figured he'd only need a few spells to kill it, and would still have plenty left over.

he probably got carried away casting it multiple times, casting it in the first place was probably not a bad idea since he needed his lower slots for other spells.

[NerfTW]

Keep in mind that V recognized Quar, and when they previously fought, he summoned a giant demon to attack them.

So besides not expecting an adult black dragon to be sneaking up on him, she also didn't want to risk Quar having any other demon friends he could call in favors from.

[quick_comment]

Dont forget, V is not a paranoid tippy wizard. If he were, not only would he not be an evocation specialist, but he wouldnt be doing his research on a undefended island - he would be doing it in a mordrekanin's mansion or similar.

He likes seeing things get turned to ash by his magic. Yeah, magic missiles or rays of enfeeblement would have been more efficient, but he wanted the imp gone now and wanted him gone with style.

[Zeitgeist]

Why are people still saying it was inefficient and lower level spells would have been better?

Did anybody else notice the fact that 4 disintegrates did NOT get the job done?

[Logalmier]

Why are people still saying it was inefficient and lower level spells would have been better?

Did anybody else notice the fact that 4 disintegrates did NOT get the job done?

That's because Disintegrate is a spell used for killing really powerful creatures. Not Imps. Also it reqires an attack roll, and V sucks at attacks. Thus it would have been better to use a fireball or lightning bolt that doesn't need an attack roll and would've killed Qarr anyways.

[Tensu]

That's because Disintegrate is a spell used for killing really powerful creatures. Not Imps. Also it reqires an attack roll, and V sucks at attacks. Thus it would have been better to use a fireball of lightning bolt that doesn't need an attack roll and would've killed Qarr anyways.

and go a day without food?

[Gez]

Vaarsuvius has been overboard since this strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0599.html).

[Logalmier]

and go a day without food?

Expending one 3rd level evocation does not mean that V's gonna go hungry for a day. She might prepare other spells from time to time.:smalltongue:

[Tensu]

Expending one 3rd level evocation does not mean that V's gonna go hungry for a day. She might prepare other spells from time to time.:smalltongue:

and how many of those slots has he already devoted to his research? how many would it take to catch/cook food? why spend spells that have non-combat utility on combat when you could just you your combat-only spells for combat? I mean I'm sure "I better save a few disintegrates in case an ancient black dragon shows up" was not the first thing on his mind. "annoying imp die now" was. and while I'd like to say I wouldn't make that mistake I probably would: I'd trust prismatic spray to kill or flight to escape any sea monster that showed up. hindsight is 20/20 as they say.

[Dixieboy]

Vaarsuvius has been overboard since this strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0599.html).maybe a ltitle sooner (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0020.html)

[Amon Star]

Actually, no, he doesn't. Imps only come with resist 5 fire.

And anyway, you'd think after the first shot or two missed she'd have gone for some Magic Missiles at least. No miss chance, potent enough to take down an Imp in a few shots even if he has class levels like he claims.

Zevox

Unless Quarr, a Sorcerer, has Shield.

[Logalmier]

how many would it take to catch/cook food?

Two. Magic Missile. Flamefinger. (from the OotPCs)


why spend spells that have non-combat utility on combat when you could just you your combat-only spells for combat?

Are you saying that spells like Fireball and Lightning Bolt aren't combat spells? Disintegrate isn't the only combat spell in V's arsenal. I'm wondering why V would use an impractical spell for frying an imp, when she could have used a much more practical lightning bolt. People have made good points about this, like V isn't thinking rationally or she only expects one encounter a day. But I don't think that it's because she'd need the lower level spells to catch fish.

[Querzis]

Actually, no, he doesn't. Imps only come with resist 5 fire.

And anyway, you'd think after the first shot or two missed she'd have gone for some Magic Missiles at least. No miss chance, potent enough to take down an Imp in a few shots even if he has class levels like he claims.

He can teleport, he charmed lots of monsters to attack the fleet and he actually survived a disintegrate spell. Hes not claiming anything, he got class levels.

But anyway, V had no reason not to as long as he didnt think he would have to fight anyone else today. Killing a fly with a sledgehammer is a lot more fun. There is no kill like overkill.

And honestly, it kinda annoy me when people say: «in the heat of the action, while he had absolutely no time to think about it, why did this character not do this? I mean, after thinking about it one or two minutes in front of my computer and thanks to the fact that I actually saw the outcome of the character action, I came up with it so how come the character didnt?» Come on...