Caine(From WOD) In Comics

[ArlEammon]

I was wondering how powerful Caine would be against many enemies in Comic book universes.

[sun_tzu]

...From what I've heard of him, he sounds like he's comparable to Galactus in terms of power.
Mind you, I got most of my knowledge of Cain second-hand.

[chiasaur11]

I'd bet Anung un Rama could take him.

I mean, he's the beast of the apocalypse, and only can die when he gives up.

Not that he wouldn't take a ton of abuse in the fight. Oh man would Hellboy get nine shades of crap kicked out of him. But if you can kill the goddess of the night, queen of witches, and a major mythical figure, well, I figure Big Red has a chance.

[Selrahc]

Hellboy doesn't have a hope. Caine is probably the most powerful extant force in the World of Darkness. And at the top level there are some really crazy things. At the top levels of the game, you have abilities that could literally reshape the entirety of the planet to your will. You still can't even inconvenience Caine.

Certainly a Night God or Witch Queen would be unlikely to cause any danger to him at all. Caine beat up Lucifer with apparent ease. He is capable of single handedly destroying all vampires from all previous generations. The only things that could actually do anything to him are the sphere 10 mages, and even then it would be a close run thing.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

From what I've been told about WoD, there's only one thing you need to know about anyone trying to pick a fight with Caine. They lose. 'Nuff said.:smallcool:

[chiasaur11]

Hellboy doesn't have a hope. Caine is probably the most powerful extant force in the World of Darkness. And at the top level there are some really crazy things. At the top levels of the game, you have abilities that could literally reshape the entirety of the planet to your will. You still can't even inconvenience Caine.

Certainly a Night God or Witch Queen would be unlikely to cause any danger to him at all. Caine beat up Lucifer with apparent ease. He is capable of single handedly destroying all vampires from all previous generations. The only things that could actually do anything to him are the sphere 10 mages, and even then it would be a close run thing.

Which is why I brought up the fundamentally unkillable thing. And I figger bringing the right hand of doom, the key to the apocalypse, would be worth something.

Also, I'd say the accursed Richards or goldarn Batman could take him with prep time. Ultimate nullifiers kill fundamental forces and whole universes. Oughta be able to wound the guy.

[Selrahc]

Which is why I brought up the fundamentally unkillable thing. And I figger bringing the right hand of doom, the key to the apocalypse, would be worth something.

Hellboy isn't unkillable though. His body has been crushed to bits by for example... a big statue (http://www.darkhorse.com/Features/Animations/11/Hellboy-Almost-Colossus?part_num=10). Caine can destroy the planet with ease, and can certainly muster more force than that big Colossus. As for his resolve keeping his body together, well since Caine can rip peoples minds to ribbons as easily as he can destroy their bodies, then Hellboy will have a hard time doing more than gibbering and drooling.

Hellboy is an interesting character, but he wouldn't even inconvenience Superman let alone Caine.



Also, I'd say the accursed Richards or goldarn Batman could take him with prep time. Ultimate nullifiers kill fundamental forces and whole universes. Oughta be able to wound the guy.

Well yeah, plot device level weapons are what would really be needed. With the proviso that whoever uses the weapon would be wiped out of existence by the mark of Caine.

There is also the fact that he has intelligence beyond mortal ken and awareness of everything going on on the planet even if it is in people's heads.

[Revlid]

Hellboy doesn't have a hope. Caine is probably the most powerful extant force in the World of Darkness. And at the top level there are some really crazy things. At the top levels of the game, you have abilities that could literally reshape the entirety of the planet to your will. You still can't even inconvenience Caine.

Certainly a Night God or Witch Queen would be unlikely to cause any danger to him at all. Caine beat up Lucifer with apparent ease. He is capable of single handedly destroying all vampires from all previous generations. The only things that could actually do anything to him are the sphere 10 mages, and even then it would be a close run thing.

You're missing a few key facts:

1. Caine can't kill Hellboy, or even break him. As soon as Hellboy gives up his struggle against 'orrible things (and by extension his own nature), the whole universe crumples in on itself like an empty paper bag under the attentions of Cosmic Horrors, so Caine has something of an investment in keeping him alive/avoiding him.

2. Hellboy is played by Ron Perlman. Caine is not.

3. Hellboy is The Protagonist. He has the might of Plot on his side, is powered by Narrativium, and has a right hand constructed out of purest Screw Destiny. Caine is inevitable - Hellboy is specifically designed to make the inevitable... evitable.

Based on pure power, sure, Caine should win... But killing giant, unstoppable gribbly magic things is kind of what Hellboy does, you know. It's his thing.

That said, Lucifer? When did Caine beat him up? I'm assuming this was after the former's depowering.



Hellboy is an interesting character, but he wouldn't even inconvenience Superman let alone Caine.

Here's where we must outright disagree - Superman is just as weak against magic as any regular human. Hellboy could pulp him with one solid Right Hand of DOOM hit (which he will get, to forestall inevitable cries of superspeed - Doomsday, Metallo etc. can reliably hit Superman, he's not Flash).

[chiasaur11]

Hellboy isn't unkillable though. His body has been crushed to bits by for example... a big statue (http://www.darkhorse.com/Features/Animations/11/Hellboy-Almost-Colossus?part_num=10). Caine can destroy the planet with ease, and can certainly muster more force than that big Colossus. As for his resolve keeping his body together, well since Caine can rip peoples minds to ribbons as easily as he can destroy their bodies, then Hellboy will have a hard time doing more than gibbering and drooling.

Hellboy is an interesting character, but he wouldn't even inconvenience Superman let alone Caine.



Well yeah, plot device level weapons are what would really be needed. With the proviso that whoever uses the weapon would be wiped out of existence by the mark of Caine.

There is also the fact that he has intelligence beyond mortal ken and awareness of everything going on on the planet even if it is in people's heads.

Hellboy: In Darkness Calls it does flat out say he can survive until he, of his own free will, decides to give up. Mind whammies, maybe, I'll grant you.

Marvel: Standard nullifier, yes. The Marvel Adventures one, however, is more fun. It essentially works as an off switch for cosmic power. Levels the playing field so Captain America and Galactus would be even in a fight. Also, Squirrel Girl would make old Caine cry for Eve in no time. It's what she does. And I would pay so much for that comic.

Most people would get clobbered though, yeah. I mean, even though, say, Dr. Doom would shrug off his mind whammies with an awesome monologue, he'd still get pasted by the death lasers.

[Gavin Sage]

Anybody with 6 True Faith points could pray to God for the miracle of Caine's Disciplines being nullified. Or for that matter just revoke him with one point, in LARP rules it essentially works even if the vamp makes their save. Don't remember tabletop though. Then just get lucky and stake the first vampire, boom he goes down. He won't be dead even if you leave him out in the sun, but when you God is backing your contractual immortality "beating" does not equal "killing" in any sense. This needs Caine to not be played as paranoid, but wandering and moping seems to be the closest to canon answer on what the guy is doing.

The Faithful aside there are some entities likely capable in Mage and Werewolf of doing it the hard way. Something like the Weaver or some hoary old something from the edges of the Umbra. Then in one of the Gehenna scenarios Lilith can do it, and Lucifer pokes around and is stated to be capable of doing so. Also Tremere worked out a Thaum spell capable of effecting everyone everywhere which worked. Well he gotten eaten by Tzimice and it worked for Tzimice, but the spell worked dang it. So using that combined with some basic Dominate and you could alter reality itself on a scale that would make the Technocracy wet their pants. Lots of potential there.

Outside of the WOD though with only vague notions of Caine's power level I just got to go with the traditional allotment of celestial and cosmic beings of phenomenal power. They can't kill Caine strictly speaking, but beating him enough to stake should be possible.

[Oregano]

The person who said you lose if you fight Cain is right, was it Zousha?

It's actually in the mechanics of at least of the editions of Vampire. It says something along the lines of.

Fighting Cain
You lose.

I don't think Miracles can be used against Cain, not entirely sure though.

[Ms.Malbolge]

If somebody hasn't brought this up already in the whole Cain vs. Hellboy thing. Caine has all the disciplines in the book, and then some.

There is a Malkavian discipline called Denial I believe, where if you think something doesn't exist, it ceases to.

Cain looks at Hellboy, the red skin in horns. "This can't be real..."

:Hellboy pops out of existence:

At least that's my opinion. :smallbiggrin:

[ArlEammon]

Just try it with Galactus... try it.. Even if it works he'll always come back. I don't know about disciplines much but I do know Eternity might get angry at having to keep ressurecting Galactus or the Elders of the universe constantly.

One thing's for certain, Dr. Strange CAN threaten him although I don't know if he'd win forr certain.

[Ms.Malbolge]

That thus is the futility of such Vs. threads shown. When you match up the de facto ultimate powers from different universes it basically comes down to whoever the other person likes the most.

So to me, Cain would win against Hellboy, because I think he's a bleh character, then Cain would get his rear end handed to him by Wonder Woman tag teamed with Harley Quinn. :smallbiggrin:

[chiasaur11]

If somebody hasn't brought this up already in the whole Cain vs. Hellboy thing. Caine has all the disciplines in the book, and then some.

There is a Malkavian discipline called Denial I believe, where if you think something doesn't exist, it ceases to.

Cain looks at Hellboy, the red skin in horns. "This can't be real..."

:Hellboy pops out of existence:

At least that's my opinion. :smallbiggrin:

Hellboy has a few abilities of his own. One is killing Vampires who try to put the whammy on him.

[Revlid]

If somebody hasn't brought this up already in the whole Cain vs. Hellboy thing. Caine has all the disciplines in the book, and then some.

There is a Malkavian discipline called Denial I believe, where if you think something doesn't exist, it ceases to.

Cain looks at Hellboy, the red skin in horns. "This can't be real..."

:Hellboy pops out of existence:

At least that's my opinion. :smallbiggrin:

So, I'm going to assume you haven't read any of the other posts on Hellboy? You know, the ones where he's a fundamental part of the universe's destiny, and to kill/remove him would be to instantly unmake the universe in its entirety? This is a draw at best for Caine.

[JabberwockySupafly]

What some people are forgetting here about Big Red, is that his Right Hand of Doom, is essentially the Right Hand of God, at least in the Mignolia-verse. Explanation Spoilered.
The being from which the RHoD is taken from, is one of the Creators. One of the things that created the universe and everything inside (and outside) of it. This include the Seven Who Are One, also called The Dragon, also called Ogdru Jahad. If Caine existed inside the universe as Hellboy, the hand has the power not only to hurt him, but to outright erase him. It is the key which binds the Seven. It is unbreakable, and gives the being who wields it unlimited power should he choose to shrug off his "mortal" vestige and become the harbinger of the apocalypse, Anung Un Rama.

Hellboy also tends to be resistant to, if not outright immune to, most compulsion magics, due not just to his stubborn nature, but an natural affinity due to his origins and status in Hell. Otherwise Rasputin would have just used a charm spell on him and persuaded him to unlock the door to the Seven.

His only major weakness is that he is a demon, and can be magically bound by his true name. No other powers are granted to those who know his name. As can be evidenced when Igor Bromhead uses it to steal the Crown of The Apocalypse from him.


I'm not saying it's hand's down (pun fully intentional) win for Hellboy, but I believe people need to give him more credit. While he couldn't fully defeat Caine unless he accepted his destiny (thus resulting in the "cleansing" of the world in the fires of the Ogdru Jahad), Caine wouldn't be able to defeat Hellboy. It would end as a stand-still.

[ZeroNumerous]

On Hellboy: Ravnos have the ability to create illusions that, at 5 dots, are real enough to harm a living being. Given that Caine in Gehenna(when he's all depowered and 'weak') has 10 dots in every vampire discipline ever.. I'm sure he can just illusion up something that does exactly what Hellboy does while at the same time illusioning away the real Hellboy.

On Killing Caine: Due to Caine's Mark of God, any creature, regardless of what it is, that harms Caine suffers the same as he does. Even if you do succeed in killing him, it's a phyrric victory at most because you die with him.

Incidently, these powers also invalidates virtually every other opponent sans Squirrel Girl. And since Squirrel Girl would never actually kill Caine she's also immune to his Mark of God ability.

[Selrahc]

Here's where we must outright disagree - Superman is just as weak against magic as any regular human. Hellboy could pulp him with one solid Right Hand of DOOM hit

Except he clearly isn't. Wonder Woman is magical. Thor is magical. Both have hit Superman hard without him being smashed into tiny fragments.

If your magical power is to hit stuff really hard, it doesn't tend to work against Superman.

What does work is stuff like turning him into a frog, bewitching him or other such non physical tricks. Magic that isn't a magic weapon.

But if you insist, then I guess I'll replace him with Captain Marvel.


That said, Lucifer? When did Caine beat him up? I'm assuming this was after the former's depowering.

The Book of Flames I think. Shortly after his fall? He blamed Caine for inventing the concept of murder, and attempted to take him out.


That thus is the futility of such Vs. threads shown. When you match up the de facto ultimate powers from different universes it basically comes down to whoever the other person likes the most.

Hellboy isn't an ultimate power. At least in his current form. And there is no way he could do a single thing to Caine.

Look, the amount of things Caine can do make it impossible for Hellboy to even get near if Ciane doesn't want him to. He could leave Hellboy burning in the centre of the world, warp his flesh into the shape of a nice chair to sit on, while leaving Hellboy very much alive and aware, take his mind away from him, turn him into a loyal servant, or simply ignore him, since there is no way the Red Hand of Doom could override the curse Caine labours under, so Hellboy can't hit Caine, or if he does it will likely prove ineffective against someone who can pretty ignore magical sun nukes.

[Satyr]

As Vampire was also the cosmologically most narrowminded of the WOD games, the Big Bads were also the least significant big bads. I mean, antediluvians? They are like kids compared to the Stormeater or one other big plague. Cain? A bloody amateur compared with the hierarchy of Malfeas. I wouldn't even mention the bigger ones (Phoenix, Father Fenris, Rorg, the Urge Wyrms or Helios) or even the real big ones (Eater of Souls, Defiler or the Ghost in the Machine).

Cane is only an individual, and even thoug he is powerful, compared to the the cosmic terrors out there, he is a walking suicide. Comparing him to only one of the lesser members of the Maeljin Incarna is like a match between Dracula and Cthulluh. At high noon.

[ArlEammon]

As Vampire was also the cosmologically most narrowminded of the WOD games, the Big Bads were also the least significant big bads. I mean, antediluvians? They are like kids compared to the Stormeater or one other big plague. Cain? A bloody amateur compared with the hierarchy of Malfeas. I wouldn't even mention the bigger ones (Phoenix, Father Fenris, Rorg, the Urge Wyrms or Helios) or even the real big ones (Eater of Souls, Defiler or the Ghost in the Machine).

Cane is only an individual, and even thoug he is powerful, compared to the the cosmic terrors out there, he is a walking suicide. Comparing him to only one of the lesser members of the Maeljin Incarna is like a match between Dracula and Cthulluh. At high noon.


Hm. Well, to be honest, his creation of disciplines at will would be like a god from D&D using the Alter reality power.

[Satyr]

While Alter Reality is a power which is literally available to most powerful banes, like the Nexus Crawlers. Now, Nexus Crawlers are just one of the uncountable legions of Malfeas, and there are probably thousands of them and in question of power several levels under even the lesser name-bearer plagues, let alone the Maeljin Incarna.

[chiasaur11]

As Vampire was also the cosmologically most narrowminded of the WOD games, the Big Bads were also the least significant big bads. I mean, antediluvians? They are like kids compared to the Stormeater or one other big plague. Cain? A bloody amateur compared with the hierarchy of Malfeas. I wouldn't even mention the bigger ones (Phoenix, Father Fenris, Rorg, the Urge Wyrms or Helios) or even the real big ones (Eater of Souls, Defiler or the Ghost in the Machine).

Cane is only an individual, and even thoug he is powerful, compared to the the cosmic terrors out there, he is a walking suicide. Comparing him to only one of the lesser members of the Maeljin Incarna is like a match between Dracula and Cthulluh. At high noon.

Standard Dracula, Racist Dracula, or Dr. McNinja Dracula?

[JabberwockySupafly]

On Hellboy: Ravnos have the ability to create illusions that, at 5 dots, are real enough to harm a living being. Given that Caine in Gehenna(when he's all depowered and 'weak') has 10 dots in every vampire discipline ever.. I'm sure he can just illusion up something that does exactly what Hellboy does while at the same time illusioning away the real Hellboy.

On Killing Caine: Due to Caine's Mark of God, any creature, regardless of what it is, that harms Caine suffers the same as he does. Even if you do succeed in killing him, it's a phyrric victory at most because you die with him.

Incidently, these powers also invalidates virtually every other opponent sans Squirrel Girl. And since Squirrel Girl would never actually kill Caine she's also immune to his Mark of God ability.

Caution: Wall o' Text

I, for one, didn't say Kill. I said erase. The original bearer of the Hand that now rests on Hellboy's right arm was one of the first Greater Spitits that God sent to earth to watch over and populate it, and it created & eventually locked away what is essentially Cthulhu (the Ogdru Jahad), a cosmic horror beyond human imagining. It isn't just some big rock. It's the key to the door that says Don't Open 'Til Doomsday on it.

Forget what people might know from the movies because they're about as much canon as the X-Men ones, Hellboy is the full-on beast of the Apocalypse, as in when he dons the Crown of Fire and accepts his destiny, it's ALL over. Game Over. Caine included. All things God created will be cleansed in the Fires of Uncreation, and a new world will be born in the image of the Ogdru Jahad, to paraphrase what Rasputin rants on about in several volumes.

Essentially you are talking about something that goes through the front end of Revelations and takes the Necronomicon exit on the left. So, essentially, if we really wanted to get technical about it, Hellboy would win, but would destroy everything in the process.

Caine is an incredibly powerful immortal creature, he is not a god. Hellboy isn't either, but he is something far more dangerous in the end. Literally, The End. He is destined to destroy God and all his works. So, that would make the Mark of Caine null & void as well.

The other thing is that Caine can't kill or replace Hellboy, because as mentioned several times, Hellboy is prophecised to bring about the end of everything. It will happen, no matter how much he, or anyone else, fights it.

It isn't a job description that is simply filled. In order to replace Hellboy, you would have to literally go into Pandemonium, the capital city of Hell, past every single Demon in the Legion of the Pit, pick up the Crown of Fire, which no being born from mortal flesh can do (ageless, vampiric or no, Caine was born from a man & woman), and then another demon must don the crown. Problem is, sure, he kills Hellboy, but the next demon becomes Anung Un Rama, and guess what he's going to do? Right, open the gate. Bye-Bye Everything.

Hellboy will eventually win the game of Universe. I am a fan of Hellboy (as can be evidenced by my geek-god knowledge of everything to do with him. Hell, I have the lunchbox.) but that is not why I am arguing the point here. I am doing so because people here seem to want to ignore these facts in light of "Caine is cooler, so he wins". I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm just doing what the premise of this topic is, explain who I think could defeat Caine with the why & the how.

Another thing to consider is Caine comes from an unbelievably different universe than almost any comic book. The Mignoliaverse is the closest you'd get, but even there it's a very different place that stays close to the source material on myth and folklore. In Hellboy's universe, Cain would be an incredibly remorseful immortal who wanders the world (The Fisher King), and that's about all. He wouldn't be an ubervamp, as according to Hellboy mythology, Hecate is the mother of vampires, and that's been covered in several issues.


Want to give Caine a challenge? Dump him in the Vertigo universe. I would love to see how he would handle something like Swamp Thing, an elemental being who can control the entire planet. Why try & kill Caine when you can just imprison him at the earth's core for the rest of eternity?

[ArlEammon]

Caution: Wall o' Text

I, for one, didn't say Kill. I said erase. The original bearer of the Hand that now rests on Hellboy's right arm was one of the first Greater Spitits that God sent to earth to watch over and populate it, and it created & eventually locked away what is essentially Cthulhu (the Ogdru Jahad), a cosmic horror beyond human imagining. It isn't just some big rock. It's the key to the door that says Don't Open 'Til Doomsday on it.

Forget what people might know from the movies because they're about as much canon as the X-Men ones, Hellboy is the full-on beast of the Apocalypse, as in when he dons the Crown of Fire and accepts his destiny, it's ALL over. Game Over. Caine included. All things God created will be cleansed in the Fires of Uncreation, and a new world will be born in the image of the Ogdru Jahad, to paraphrase what Rasputin rants on about in several volumes.

Essentially you are talking about something that goes through the front end of Revelations and takes the Necronomicon exit on the left. So, essentially, if we really wanted to get technical about it, Hellboy would win, but would destroy everything in the process.

Caine is an incredibly powerful immortal creature, he is not a god. Hellboy isn't either, but he is something far more dangerous in the end. Literally, The End. He is destined to destroy God and all his works. So, that would make the Mark of Caine null & void as well.

The other thing is that Caine can't kill or replace Hellboy, because as mentioned several times, Hellboy is prophecised to bring about the end of everything. It will happen, no matter how much he, or anyone else, fights it.

It isn't a job description that is simply filled. In order to replace Hellboy, you would have to literally go into Pandemonium, the capital city of Hell, past every single Demon in the Legion of the Pit, pick up the Crown of Fire, which no being born from mortal flesh can do (ageless, vampiric or no, Caine was born from a man & woman), and then another demon must don the crown. Problem is, sure, he kills Hellboy, but the next demon becomes Anung Un Rama, and guess what he's going to do? Right, open the gate. Bye-Bye Everything.

Hellboy will eventually win the game of Universe. I am a fan of Hellboy (as can be evidenced by my geek-god knowledge of everything to do with him. Hell, I have the lunchbox.) but that is not why I am arguing the point here. I am doing so because people here seem to want to ignore these facts in light of "Caine is cooler, so he wins". I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm just doing what the premise of this topic is, explain who I think could defeat Caine with the why & the how.

Another thing to consider is Caine comes from an unbelievably different universe than almost any comic book. The Mignoliaverse is the closest you'd get, but even there it's a very different place that stays close to the source material on myth and folklore. In Hellboy's universe, Cain would be an incredibly remorseful immortal who wanders the world (The Fisher King), and that's about all. He wouldn't be an ubervamp, as according to Hellboy mythology, Hecate is the mother of vampires, and that's been covered in several issues.


Want to give Caine a challenge? Dump him in the Vertigo universe. I would love to see how he would handle something like Swamp Thing, an elemental being who can control the entire planet. Why try & kill Caine when you can just imprison him at the earth's core for the rest of eternity?

Swamp Thing is another matter. Imprisoning him in the center of the planet won't help, since he can create new disciplines at will. He can just create discpline "Insert Cheese Here" and get out of imprisonment that way.

For that matter, less powerful Comic book characters have conquered the Marvel world Earth before, such as Apocalypse. (Apocalypse is one of my favorite fictional characters.)

[chiasaur11]

Caution: Wall o' Text

I, for one, didn't say Kill. I said erase. The original bearer of the Hand that now rests on Hellboy's right arm was one of the first Greater Spitits that God sent to earth to watch over and populate it, and it created & eventually locked away what is essentially Cthulhu (the Ogdru Jahad), a cosmic horror beyond human imagining. It isn't just some big rock. It's the key to the door that says Don't Open 'Til Doomsday on it.

Forget what people might know from the movies because they're about as much canon as the X-Men ones, Hellboy is the full-on beast of the Apocalypse, as in when he dons the Crown of Fire and accepts his destiny, it's ALL over. Game Over. Caine included. All things God created will be cleansed in the Fires of Uncreation, and a new world will be born in the image of the Ogdru Jahad, to paraphrase what Rasputin rants on about in several volumes.

Essentially you are talking about something that goes through the front end of Revelations and takes the Necronomicon exit on the left. So, essentially, if we really wanted to get technical about it, Hellboy would win, but would destroy everything in the process.

Caine is an incredibly powerful immortal creature, he is not a god. Hellboy isn't either, but he is something far more dangerous in the end. Literally, The End. He is destined to destroy God and all his works. So, that would make the Mark of Caine null & void as well.

The other thing is that Caine can't kill or replace Hellboy, because as mentioned several times, Hellboy is prophecised to bring about the end of everything. It will happen, no matter how much he, or anyone else, fights it.

It isn't a job description that is simply filled. In order to replace Hellboy, you would have to literally go into Pandemonium, the capital city of Hell, past every single Demon in the Legion of the Pit, pick up the Crown of Fire, which no being born from mortal flesh can do (ageless, vampiric or no, Caine was born from a man & woman), and then another demon must don the crown. Problem is, sure, he kills Hellboy, but the next demon becomes Anung Un Rama, and guess what he's going to do? Right, open the gate. Bye-Bye Everything.

Hellboy will eventually win the game of Universe. I am a fan of Hellboy (as can be evidenced by my geek-god knowledge of everything to do with him. Hell, I have the lunchbox.) but that is not why I am arguing the point here. I am doing so because people here seem to want to ignore these facts in light of "Caine is cooler, so he wins". I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm just doing what the premise of this topic is, explain who I think could defeat Caine with the why & the how.

Another thing to consider is Caine comes from an unbelievably different universe than almost any comic book. The Mignoliaverse is the closest you'd get, but even there it's a very different place that stays close to the source material on myth and folklore. In Hellboy's universe, Cain would be an incredibly remorseful immortal who wanders the world (The Fisher King), and that's about all. He wouldn't be an ubervamp, as according to Hellboy mythology, Hecate is the mother of vampires, and that's been covered in several issues.


Want to give Caine a challenge? Dump him in the Vertigo universe. I would love to see how he would handle something like Swamp Thing, an elemental being who can control the entire planet. Why try & kill Caine when you can just imprison him at the earth's core for the rest of eternity?

I'd prefer Contantine here. Sure, the Muck encrusted mockery of a man would be awesome, but even more fun would be mister high and mighty vampire getting a lesson in manipulation. I mean, if John C. can sell his soul and the only effect is his cancer gets cured...

Caine would be lucky to still have pants once the whole deal is over.

(Also, Hellboy might manage to defeat destiny, thanks to Pancakes. Never underestimate Pancakes.)

[Revlid]

It is the boy. He has eaten the pancake. (http://community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/1585631.html)

[SolkaTruesilver]

I really don't see why somebody would manage to pick up a fight with Caine. You just have to tip him well when you get out of the cab...

[Kojiro Kakita]

Hmm, although I do not know if manga counts as comics, but if it does, than I think characters from Nasuverse (Tsukihime, Fate Stay Night) can give Caine a run for his money.

[chiasaur11]

I really don't see why somebody would manage to pick up a fight with Caine. You just have to tip him well when you get out of the cab...

That would be much more fun than a mere knock down drag out fight.

I mean, just imagine having Constantine, Dr. Strange, or some BPRD guy giving a speech to some guy new to the whole thing: "And that's the food services court, and over there, driving the cab, is Caine, first son of Eve, cursed wanderer of the Earth, father of all vampires. Remember to tip well and you should get along great. Now, the Burger King by the deli..."

[SolkaTruesilver]

That would be much more fun than a mere knock down drag out fight.

I mean, just imagine having Constantine, Dr. Strange, or some BPRD guy giving a speech to some guy new to the whole thing: "And that's the food services court, and over there, driving the cab, is Caine, first son of Eve, cursed wanderer of the Earth, father of all vampires. Remember to tip well and you should get along great. Now, the Burger King by the deli..."

Oh, now we have shifted the conversation's focus around. We have to wonder wether or not Hellboy is the kind of guy to give a good tip to his cab driver.

[Yulian]

Oh, now we have shifted the conversation's focus around. We have to wonder wether or not Hellboy is the kind of guy to give a good tip to his cab driver.

Hellboy is an average Joe. Of course he'd tip well. He knows about the daily grind. Except his daily grind involves alien frog-monsters, witches, and ghost-werewolves.

- Yulian

[chiasaur11]

Hellboy is an average Joe. Of course he'd tip well. He knows about the daily grind. Except his daily grind involves alien frog-monsters, witches, and ghost-werewolves.

- Yulian

Hmm...
I figure most of the time he's a pretty fair tipper. I mean, he definitely seems the kind of guy who'd buy everybody in the house a drink. On the other hand, he also seems the kind of guy who'd refuse to tip much if the service was bad.

We'd better hope Caine is a good cabbie. I mean, I figure he is, wandering the earth from day 372 or so, but still.