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View Full Version : Bypassing Paradox to teach Sleepers about magic (Mage: The Awakening)



Randel
2009-02-15, 04:15 PM
Okay, I've recently gotten hooked on the new World of Darkness books, particularly Mage The Awakening and even more specifically the recent book that talks about the Silver Ladder order.

Anyway, from what I've gathered, one of the goals of the Silver Ladder (or another mage group) would be to help Sleepers (normal people) learn about magic so that they could Awaken into mages. However, this is risky since every time a Sleeper witnesses an act of Vulgar (obvious) magic then there is a chance that they will disbelieve in it and that causes Paradox that makes all sorts of nasty stuff happen (from giving the Mage severe burns or mutations to summoning horrors from the abyss... not to mention making the Abyss become bigger). Plus there are various witch hunter groups and government agents who might not like the idea of people who can mess with reality.


Anyway, assuming that there is a group who wishes to create more mages by awakening normal people without attracting the hunter groups or creating paradox... how could they convince people of the existence of magic safely?

I'm thinking that one way of doing it would be to cast a spell while recording it with a video camera and then show the footage to the subject. Since the magic event already happened then there shouldn't be anything to Paradox if they disbelieve in it. They might shrug it off as special effects or in some extreme case get a weirdness censor that makes them ignore the footage entirely.

Or, you could ask for them to step inside a box which they can't see in or out of, then teleport the box to another city, then wait a bit for the 'magic to settle' and let them out. Theoretically, if you can sneak the actual magic event past them and only let them see the results then they can try to disbelieve in the magic but can't cause Paradox by doing so.


Anyway, has anyone else thought of a mage order dedicated to recruiting sleepers?

Halaster
2009-02-15, 04:31 PM
Certainly sounds like a way to get them thinking, although at least in my Mage (Ascension, so old WoD) campaign, I'd still have given you Paradox for the box-teleport, as soon as the magic becomes obvious. At least the way I read it in that rulebook (admittedly it's been a while), you can't fool paradox by waiting a few minutes. The point is that it kicks in as soon as someone becomes clearly aware of you casting a spell, not necessarily at that very moment.

The video would work, because there is no telling what you did to the video, and the amount of playing it back and computer-analyzing it that would be require to identify the magic as genuine would certainly give the target enough time to get his head around the concept.

Because ultimately that's what matters: allowing people to adapt tp the thought of magic by steps, not tricking them into noticing a few minutes late.
If you want the box trick to work, you might teleport to an L.A. basement bookstore with someone from, say, San Diego, without telling him that's where you went and without allowing him to get a good look at the surroundings (therefore basement) and buy a book there. Sometime later you arrange for that person to actually go to the city of angels, and by chance walk into that bookstore. They might rationalize it away (must have been some different place), but getting home they dig up the bill and, right, it's the same name, so something weird must have happened. Thinking about it, and failing to find a sensible explanation, they can then accept it as magic.

CU,
Halaster

Randel
2009-02-16, 03:43 PM
Hmmm... so, the idea would be to use magic in such a way that they can wrap their heads around the possibility before commiting oneself to it?

Possibilities:

1). Hand them an enchanted coin (or a d20) that always lands heads up (or either on the 1 or 20, or alternates between the two each toss) despite being perfectly balanced and normal in other ways. At first they can rationalize it as just being lucky, then once they find the pattern persists they think its got some 'trick' to it. Then they have to recognize it as magic (hopefully you get back to them before they cause a paradox or get lynched for cheating with it)

2. Cause some meme to follow them for a while. Like a white rabbit, or the words 'Bad Wolf'. Once they start getting paranoid and research it then approach them and pull off the next stage of the test. They could always dismiss it as you trying to stalk them or some massive conspiracy. (Warning: could attract attention or scare the heck out of them if done wrong)

3. Sit around a Wishing Well or some similar spot. Find out what people are wishing for and then 'grant' them for one promising person in some covert way. If they come back then do it again and judge their reaction. Once they start to believe then approach them and go to the next stage of testing. Other ways to do it could include fortune cookies, a 'genie lamp' thats basically a toy or something that lets you hear what they say to it. Fortune cookies, a letter from the 'Grant a Wish Foundation' that offers them three wishes that they write on the included paper (and then don't mail anywhere), or just drop a "Wish Note" on the ground somewhere ans see who picks it up. The important thing to do is not to let out a powerful magic item does stuff but instead have it tell you what they wish for. Judge them based on their wishes and don't make how you grant them obvious. (note that it could get complicated if they wish for a million dollars or other stuff that would be a hassle to grant. Let there be a gap in time between granting the wish so they can assume its coincidence for a sec as they wrap their head around it. If they abuse it... dump them and move on to someone else.)

Starshade
2009-02-16, 06:11 PM
Its some issues, what do this have for followup effects? Best, imho, is to aviod this by making mortals unable to belive the pictures, disbelieving the validity of the filmed magic.

If you allow them to see and believe in magic, and perhaps make a paradox effect in the process, if you could create paradoxes by showing someone a video, a player could:

1. use a cellphone to record a rival mage.

2. blackmail him/her, telling "if you dont do x/pay x, i will upload this vid of you to youtube and expose you to several hundreds of paradoxes a day".

3. Profit.


Seriously, i think the idea would work, but, not for "everyone", id think it would fit for a good way to make a suspected Sleepwalker more open, or try to Awaken him. :smallsmile:

Aquillion
2009-02-16, 08:35 PM
Just grow it out of their existing beliefs. If you find someone sciency, say, start by explaining it as a new scientific discovery they way you usually would to try and shrug something off without Paradox. Then slowly expand it with new discoveries -- carefully "proving" each to them, none of which are too out of line based on what you've shown them before -- until you've given them a scientific theory that almost exactly matches actual magic. Explain that belief affects reality because of quantum hyperstring theory or whatever else you want.

Eventually, you could try to get papers published in scientific journals that expand on your theory, but the problem here is that other people wouldn't be able to reproduce your results... and also the Technocracy probably controls every single major scientific journal and would kill you immediately.

Warpfire
2009-02-16, 08:42 PM
...and also the Technocracy probably controls every single major scientific journal and would kill you immediately.

Psst. Those guys aren't around anymore. :smallwink:

Seers of the Throne would probably take notice and be violently unhappy, though.

Dervag
2009-02-16, 09:26 PM
Just grow it out of their existing beliefs. If you find someone sciency, say, start by explaining it as a new scientific discovery they way you usually would to try and shrug something off without Paradox. Then slowly expand it with new discoveries -- carefully "proving" each to them, none of which are too out of line based on what you've shown them before -- until you've given them a scientific theory that almost exactly matches actual magic. Explain that belief affects reality because of quantum hyperstring theory or whatever else you want.Try that on a truly professional scientist and you're going to have the longest, most difficult argument of your life.

Even if you're right, you won't just be able to handwave it. They'll want to see the math. Very very much.

BobVosh
2009-02-17, 06:28 AM
Try that on a truly professional scientist and you're going to have the longest, most difficult argument of your life.

Even if you're right, you won't just be able to handwave it. They'll want to see the math. Very very much.

If you handwave it just right, you will slap that desire out of them.

Edge
2009-02-17, 06:36 AM
I believe that the Silver Ladder has a practice known as cryptology, wherein they slowly reveal the existence of magic to a Sleeper in the hopes of triggering an Awakening. I believe its detailed in their Order Book.

Of course, what the Guardians of the Veil think about that is another matter entirely, especially if it backfires and leads to a small surge in the number of local Hunter cells. :smallwink:

Heliomance
2009-02-17, 07:17 AM
I thought it was the Free Council that wanted to bring Sleepers into the fold

Fenix_of_Doom
2009-02-17, 08:31 AM
Actually I don't think it would be all that hard, a lot of people believe in various weird things already, superstition, religion and the sorts have always been part of human culture, how hard can it be to integrate you magic into that? Alternatively, you can use psychological tricks to convince them your a psychic/mage and then show them real magic when they already believe you.

Halaster
2009-02-17, 09:35 AM
Well, you may be right there, but in Mage, as I recall it, as in the whole WoD, things are a little more drastic. They like to paint the whole situation rather black-and-white. So, in the old WoD the technocracy succeeded in changing the paradigm to the point where it just wasn't possible anymore for an unawakened person to believe in real magic. When the real thing bit them in the nose, they would invariably find that their beliefs weren't quite as heartfelt as they had thought, they would crack and reality would fix the problem by slamming the mage with paradox. Don't know who is responsible in the new WoD, but the idea seems to be pretty much the same.

So you have to go slow, and do it right. Even if you get people to accept you as some kind of faith-healer, guru or whatever, as soon as you make "real" magic in front of them, someone is going to freak, cause in their heart of hearts they took you for a fraud, and you get the whole backlash. Instead you have to let them in on your paradigm step by step, and make sure they have it internalized.

CU,
Halaster

Heliomance
2009-02-17, 10:09 AM
Paradox doesn't necessarily happen. The Sleeper needs to succeed on a Resolve+Composure roll against the spell's potency. If they succeed, the spell fizzles, and you get slapped with Paradox. If they fail, you're golden.

Krrth
2009-02-17, 01:58 PM
There are a couple of groups that are trying to force awakenings. At least one of them has noticed that people tend to awaken during stressful circumstances, and thus they try to create those circumstances. I beleive it's one of the Adamantine Arrow legacies.

The Free Council has also done something similar. One cabal has created a MMO run (secretly)by a true AI. The AI encourages players to thin outside the box, and tries to get people pondering the code that runs the game.

NeoVid
2009-02-17, 02:11 PM
1). Hand them an enchanted coin (or a d20) that always lands heads up (or either on the 1 or 20, or alternates between the two each toss) despite being perfectly balanced and normal in other ways. At first they can rationalize it as just being lucky, then once they find the pattern persists they think its got some 'trick' to it. Then they have to recognize it as magic (hopefully you get back to them before they cause a paradox or get lynched for cheating with it)



Once they start recognizing it as magic, it would probably get unraveled by Disbelief before long.

That said, the video idea can definitely work. The Free Council has a Youtube show about a mystic detective which often shows magic being worked onscreen.

The most certain way I know of is a Mind 3 spell, Enforce Paradigm, from Tome of the Mysteries. It temporarily changes a person's mind so they don't contribute to Disbelief or Paradox. Since it's certain that Sleeper perceptions are a factor in causing those, the spell changes how they perceive magic, so the Abyssal mark on their souls doesn't notice there's anything funny going on.