Computer Aid

[Vonriel]

I have a problem. Yes, I can hear you now, "Really?" you say, "Go figure, I would have never guessed," you continue. "It's not like I expected you to start a thread titled 'Computer Aid' and not have a problem." You sarcastically finish, forcing me to continue with this joke far too long.

*cough*

To start with, I mainly need direct information on how to fix my problem, and will likely pass over anything with overly long anecdotes about how your problems got fixed. I promise, it's nothing personal, but it's coming up on three weeks now (maybe four? it seems so long..) without my computer and I'm definitely going through withdrawals. I'm near axe-murdering crazy if I don't get this fixed. Please, save a college kid, help me fix my computer! :smallwink:

Anyway, the problem. I recently ran into issues with my old computer being generally old and cranky and not wanting to let me use it, so I purchased parts to build a new one. The newly bought pieces are the motherboard, processor, video card, hard drive, RAM, and power supply. I get them all about a week ago, put them all together, and then the problem starts. Specifically, the computer isn't holding power for more than a second. As in, I press the power button, the power led comes on, the fans start whirring, a second passes, and it goes dark and silent. Well, more silent than usual. Now, I know it's not the power supply, because I went out and bought one to try out, and I ran into the exact same problem with it as I did with the first new one I bought. This leaves me with three guesses: The processor has something going wrong with it (likely a broken heat sensor), the motherboard is borked somehow, or there is user error thrown in the mix to complicate things. I know the processor isn't actually overheating, because at one point, I had taken the thing out and held it in my hand (in order to make sure it was seated in the socket properly) and it didn't burn me wasn't any hotter than room temperature, and almost immediately after that, when I tried to turn the computer on, I ran into the cutoffafterasecondthing (C.O.A.S.T.?)

Other stuff: The computer worked fine at first, barring a few hard drive faults that I can't even see if I can get around (or managed to get around) due to the power issues. I had turned it on/rebooted it maybe four times in total before the first time the computer cut itself off, but after a couple hours it came back on just fine. Then, a scant two on/reboots later, it ran into the problem it has now where it just cuts itself off after a second of activity.

Full list of officially-named parts - please, no comments on why such and such would be a better choice, or why I paid to much for this or that; this list is purely for people to look for hardware incompatibility:
RAM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820134586)
Hard Drive (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822145127) - Likely going to be replacing this, depending on whether or not the thing is bad.
Motherboard (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130136R)
Video Card (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150319)
Power Supply (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817703015)
Processor (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103235)

Thanks in advance for any help/advice.

[ShadowHunter]

Do you have a crappy surge protector? Amuse me by plugging everything into a wall socket and seeing if it works

[Jack Squat]

You mentioned you had some hard drive faults...could it be that your HD decided to crash?

This article (http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/547) may help some.

[SMEE]

Try to make sure the heatsink and the cpu fan are well set and connected to the right pins, otherwise the motherboard might not recognize it and do exactly what it's doing right now.

[thubby]

i don't see any compatibility issues.

your computer probably uses more power than your old one, so i agree, check the surge protector.

my first thought goes to the OPEN BOX motherboard. getting anything open has a chance that someone else killed it.

next i would guess the RAM. you can make all the right moves and still have your ram crap out :smallsigh:

if it was your power supply, it crapping out could have well taken something with it. it doesn't help that i'm not familiar with the brand.

what were you doing on the computer before the problem showed up?

[Vonriel]

In order of responses:

Would the surge protector work for half a day then crap out, though? Not only that, other stuff plugged into it is still working. Still, I'll give it a shot.

The guide seems like it'll help, Jack, but I have the slight problem of not being able to look at it in conjunction with my computer. I've been getting online via a computer lab that's a short walk from my room on campus. Still, I can try nearly everything in it up to testing the parts in another computer.

I'm nearly positive the heatsink/fan are set right, and plugged into the right slot. I had both the guide to installing the cpu/fan and the guide to what plugs into where in the motherboard out and open to the respective pages while setting it up, just to be sure. In addition, even though I haven't been actually watching it every time, I'm nearly certain the fan has turned on each time I pressed the power button, which, as I understand it, shouldn't happen if it was installed improperly. However, in case it somehow messed up, I'll go back and look at it again.

The power supply listed in my last post was replaced with another power supply of near-equivalent (if slightly less) quality and capability, and the same problem showed. I was attempting to install my operating system when the problem first showed up, so I literally have no software installed on the computer.

I'll let you know what turns up after I get some foodstuffs.

[Forthork]

Do you have the case speaker hooked up, and if so, do you get any beeps? Take everything out but processor, heatsink, and one ram stick. See if that holds power. Have you tried connecting a molex connector from your power supply to your motherboard? It shouldn't be necessary, but you have the option. Also, try you card in a different slot. Also, as thubby said, open box motherboards are usually a bad sign.

[Vonriel]

Ok, weird, I could've sworn I made a post here, but it's gone now...

Anyway, Forthork, I do have it hooked up, and I hear no beeps. I did take everything out, and it didn't hold power (see below for more details). No idea what a molex connector even means, so, no. As for the open box motherboard thing, I'm trying hard to remember if it came with the original seal on the static-guard bag or not, but, aside from that, it looked like it was delivered new to me. It's kind of weird, but.. meh. Who knows.

For the more details, a potential accidental discovery? Maybe? Question mark? After I ate my lunch, I went back to my room and started hooking up power cables to various plugs inside the computer, on the motherboard. At this point, the hard drive had nothing plugged into it, the cd and dvd drives were connected to the motherboard by ide, a video card, CPU, and a stick of RAM were plugged in, and that's it. I go to turn the computer on¹, and it holds power, fans start whirring, but I get no video. On further inspection, I find that I missed a plug on the motherboard, which I discovered provided power to the CPU. Now, at this point, the computer had been on for 30s-1m, 30-60 times longer than any point before now. I cradled it in my lap for a little bit longer (I told you! I need my computer! :smalltongue:) before turning it off again, and then plugging a cable into the plug on the motherboard I forgot the previous time. I turn it on, and, go figure, no power for more than a second, again. I tried it a couple more times, same thing, and then I came here to post about it to see if that actually means anything.

¹When I say turn the computer on, or off, I mean: I turn off the power, flip the on/off switch on the power supply, and then unplug the cord. To turn it on, I plug in the cord, flip the switch, and press the button. Just so's ya know.

[Crispy Dave]

did you make sure the power supply is turned on? Alot of power supplies have a switch on the back that has to be on. When mine is off it does what you describe.

[Forthork]

Molex plug. (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/31/Molex_female_connector.jpg/800px-Molex_female_connector.jpg) Your board has a connector right near the circular heatsink that says "MSI." Its mainly to provide power if you have multiple graphics cards, but it also may be necessary, I've never had a board that used one. From what I can gather, it is either a power issue (PSU or motherboard would be the culprit) because if something else was broken, power should still flow (fans on, etc.) or the motherboard is faulty or is being shorted. Out of curiosity, you didn't just screw the motherboard directly onto the case, right? I've heard of people making that mistake, and not using the spacers that come with the case.

[The Evil Thing]

Is this thread still active?

In my experience if the system isn't "holding power" I'd say that the motherboard is broken. In one computer I'd been drafted in to take a look at, it was literally cracked.

Although as Forthork points out check that every power socket on the board (I count three) has something plugged in and that the only metal parts that are contacting the back of the board are the spacers, all of which are underneath the screw holes.

However, I find the latter sometimes does not cause the power to shut off. Still, we should go through proper procedure.

First thing to do is unplug and disconnect everything. Now get a clean and dry breadboard (or other insulating surface you don't mind getting a little scratched) and put the mobo on top. Install the CPU and its cooler, plug in one stick of RAM then leave it alone for the time being.


Basically, in order for the power to die, the motherboard seems to have to actively send a signal to the PSU to "turn off", otherwise it'll supply power indefinitely to everything it's connected to (which it's designed to do, of course). If it's sending the signal within a few seconds of activation, this is a sign that something has gone horribly wrong and it's shutting off the power supply to minimise damage. However, we should still check the PSU is working (if only to be thorough).

Plug your PSU into the wall, grab a (metal) paper clip and bend it into a U shape, unplug the 24-pin mobo power connector (and everything else for that matter), find the green wire and use the paper clip to connect its "hole" to the hole of any black wire. This will "jump start" the PSU. If it works fine, switch it off and plug one of your parts in (e.g. the hard drive) one at a time, rinse and repeat. If you don't hear any funny noises you should be good to go and investigate the motherboard.


Ask around and see if anyone you know has one of these (http://www.pc-diagnostics.com/pc_diagnostics_tools/flippost_isa_pci_bus.shtml) and is willing to let you borrow it. This is often a very expensive way of telling you to replace the motherboard but if you can get a hold of one for free (if not for ever) it's a very useful experience to have.
Failing that, plug your PSU back into the board and see if it holds power with just the CPU and a RAM stick. If it does, try it with the GPU and see what happens. Keep adding individual components until you hit the problem. If it doesn't start at all I put it to you that the board is broken and you should see about getting a replacement. It may be something as minor as a knocked and leaky capacitor.*

If, on the other hand, everything works fine on the breadboard, take a good look at your case to see where there may be points of contact. Though I say short circuits sometimes don't cause the power to shut off it does happen and this is a nice way of finding out. If you can't contrive a way of keeping the board away from the case, consider using insulation tape or simply invest in a new case. Hell, just use the breadboard. Call it modern art or something.


Don't be surprised if a board spontaneously stops working. When I built my current system the board I ordered worked fine for about half a day and then packed in. I couldn't figure out what was wrong and sent it back the to manufacturers, asking for a replacement. They tested it and agreed it was broken (even though I have a hunch the damage was caused by me :smallredface:) and so they sent me another one. Moral of the story is not to be afraid to take advantage of warranties.


*I rather too violently removed the heat sink from an old 3D card to clean it out and did exactly that. When I plugged the card back in and powered on I was treated to a small shower of sparks and a smell of burning. It was actually kind of fun to watch. (I had to replace the card though.)