Leadership (4e)

[Connor Darkdart]

Leadership
Paragon Tier

Prereqs: 12 Cha, 12 Int (Possibly a different stat?)
Description: You have grown powerful enough or popular enough to recruit a person to help you in your adventures.
Info: You can create one character that is equal to your character level. They work as if they were a seperate character, but are ultimately yours to command. XP is given to the "cohort" at an equivelant of Half of any XP the "owner" character does. The cohort also loses 2 hitpoints per level. This means that at level 10, the cohort would of lost 20 hitpoints. The cohort has only one at-will power, encounter power, daily power and one utility power from their chosen class. They may exchange these at level ups.
Ranks: 1
Stats: Flexible depending on game type, but 18 point buy in this scenario.

So what do you think? I nerfed it heavily because in 3.5 it was a munchkin feat, but how feasible do you think it is, and how gamebreaking?

Contributors: Limos, Rigos (Prereqs)

[YPU]

in any case the cohort should probably be NPC as they are in the DMG, ie only one encounter and one daily etz. that way they would still have the "feel" of the class but wouldnt need as much work nor be as powerfull.

[Connor Darkdart]

Eh... I want it to have a feeling of the old Leadership feat, whereby you could have a second character and do as you wish with them. I don't want to turn it into a "Annoying NPC that follows you around"

[Rigon]

for the feat itself i would set "int 13 and cha 13" as requirement.

i don't remember any feat which would require "level 9/10". first it's kinda confusing... you can only take the feet on level 9 or level 10?! strange. so i suggest it's either heroic or paragon.

starter cohort level and xp drain seem wrong. the sooner you get the cohort the stronger it gets in the end-game, meaning that it's not worth it after level 9. also does the cohort drain xp from the leader character only or from the whole party?
- if it drains only from you then you'll be way too weak compared to the others.
- if it drains from the whole party then the whole party would hate you. TOTALLY.

having two characters is also way too strong (twice as many actions per turn, twice as many encounter and daily powers, two characters act so one being stunned is no problem ... "2 by the power of greyskull").
i suggest you listen to YPU and just try to use an NPC, really.

[Izmir Stinger]

A level 6 minion won't be able to help in any way against the level 10-14 monsters his level 10 master would be facing. It makes me think of the OOTS comic about flanking minions and dying for fleeting tactical advantage.

[NecroRebel]

Level requirements of that nature are extremely rare to the point where they're nearly unheard of. Make it simply Paragon-tier instead.

Due to how powerful an equal-level cohort would be, and how useless an underleveled cohort would be unless it was not underleveled enough, I'd go the other route for 3.5E Leadership: minions. Adding a second character essentially doubles your actions per round, and if they have useful abilities they're going to be too strong. As mentioned, though, level-5 creatures are essentially incapable of affecting =level creatures

How I'd work it is this: once per day after taking an extended rest, you can "summon," or rather just have show up, a number of equal-level minions equal to your Charisma modifier. These minions use the stats of a minion-role monster, perhaps leveled up or down if there aren't appropriate ones for your level (such as if you're level 12 and don't want troglodyte or yuan-ti minions). These minions serve as your allies, each acting to follow your commands on a single initiative, until they are all slaughtered horribly at which time you don't have them until the next day.

Besides, minions are supposed to represent creatures that are so weak that they don't "really" contribute; Ogre Savages and Skirmishers are the same, story-wise, as the Ogre Thug 3 levels above them, but the former 2 are real monsters while the latter is a minion.



Oh, and looking through the Monster Manual, there aren't any minions on levels 15, 19, 20, 24, 25, 27, 28, 29, or 30, so you'd have to homebrew or just pump up a lower-level one in most of those cases.

[Limos]

What if you made it so you got a character of your level except he gained 2less hitpoints per level and only got to choose One At-will, encounter, and Daily power to have at one time? He would have to switch them out as he gains levels with you.

That way he would still be a basically useable character, just not as tough, and not as versatile.

Maybe you could also only use an 18 point buy for his stats, instead of 22.

[Connor Darkdart]

I like the points made. Editing now.

Also, my main problem is that if I make him an equivalent character (e.g. How the feat was in 3.5) then it just become overpowered. I like Limos' idea

[Vadin]

You wrote "would of." This should instead be "would have."

The contraction "would've" sounds like "would of" but is in fact "would have."

Beyond that, I'm not sure how you keep this balanced. If a character takes it at level 10 they get a level 10 ally who levels up half as quickly, so when they're level 20, the cohort will be level 15. If the character takes the feat at level 20, they get a level 20 cohort. Less than appealing.

One extra power of each type is a pretty impressive thing, even if the cohort will have sub-par stats. This one feat basically gives a player an extra power of each type (and in whatever class they want, too).

Here's something to consider: why wouldn't a character take this feat? The only reason I can find is so that they can take it at a later level and get a better cohort.

[Limos]

The cohort should level up at the same rate as you, just be a level or two behind. So he's still useful, but not amazing enough to really make a difference.

Possibly make him function somewhat like an animal companion does for the Beastmaster ranger.

You share actions, so you have to use your move or standard actions to make him do stuff.

That should keep it from getting too cheesy.

[Mando Knight]

What if you made it so you got a character of your level except he gained 2less hitpoints per level and only got to choose One At-will, encounter, and Daily power to have at one time? He would have to switch them out as he gains levels with you.

That way he would still be a basically useable character, just not as tough, and not as versatile.

Maybe you could also only use an 18 point buy for his stats, instead of 22.

Or... perhaps... giving the character...
The ability array 16, 14, 13, 12, 11, 10
One healing surge per tier
One At-Will
One Encounter power, +1 power if level 11 or higher
One Daily power, +1 if level 21 or higher
One Utility power, +1 at levels 11 and 21
Two skills

[Meek]

Instead of this idea, I would look at how the animal companion is done. The animal companion is a fully-featured creature with its own stats, hp and it gets to be the same level as you, but because of the economy of actions, it remains balanced. The problem with adding another character entirely is that adding a whole set of new actions is too broken no matter what. And if those actions suck (the character is anywhere below your level, automatically making him suck) or it drains on your XP, the feat is unbalanced the other way – being too useless.

But if you have the characters working as a team, sharing powers and actions, it is more balanced. Is it more realistic? No. It's downright unrealistic. Why the hell can't we both move? But I'm beyond giving two diddles about realism (otherwise I wouldn't love 4e), so having an animal companion variant that preserves economy of actions, has special teamwork powers, and is your level, near your hp and has good stats, progresses in XP and advances normally, all of this would be great.

But, here comes the kicker – you don't want to hear this, and I predict this idea is either too much for you or otherwise breaks your sensibilities.

So I don't even know why I try anymore.

[Ceiling009]

You could always treat it like a Summon, if you look at the summoning rules. It has two options of which you use your actions and they more or less sort of level with you.

[Limos]

Instead of this idea, I would look at how the animal companion is done. The animal companion is a fully-featured creature with its own stats, hp and it gets to be the same level as you, but because of the economy of actions, it remains balanced. The problem with adding another character entirely is that adding a whole set of new actions is too broken no matter what. And if those actions suck (the character is anywhere below your level, automatically making him suck) or it drains on your XP, the feat is unbalanced the other way – being too useless.

But if you have the characters working as a team, sharing powers and actions, it is more balanced. Is it more realistic? No. It's downright unrealistic. Why the hell can't we both move? But I'm beyond giving two diddles about realism (otherwise I wouldn't love 4e), so having an animal companion variant that preserves economy of actions, has special teamwork powers, and is your level, near your hp and has good stats, progresses in XP and advances normally, all of this would be great.

But, here comes the kicker – you don't want to hear this, and I predict this idea is either too much for you or otherwise breaks your sensibilities.

So I don't even know why I try anymore.

What if you made Leadership a Paragon path? You get an extra Cohort class features, and several commands at 11th level that allow you to use him as you would the Animal companion. Simple things, Like a Move action at-will that allows you to move your cohort, an At-will standard action that allows you to make a melee basic attack through them.

But they still get opportunity attacks, so they aren't lame.

[Rigon]

the problem is that it is a half character.
it makes 1 character become 1.5 while it breaks encounter difficulties because it is an extra 0.5 character on the board. it could block a square and that's too much power already. just think of a ranged striker with a defender cohort in a corridor. that means zero opportunity attacks against the striker while the striker is "alone" (no other party members only the cohort-o-roid).

so here are seom extra hitbacks for the Leader:
prerequisite: cleric or warlord.
all equipment cost must be played by the leader character. a cohort can use magic items like he was YOUR level but he must meet other requirements (such as size or class).
a cohort can't do critical hits (he is no hero like you are, so he can't perform such feats).
each round you can do a minor action to give tactical advice to your cohort. in this case you can command him/her to attack a specific creature within the cohort's "reach" or to move to a certain square. all other actions of the cohort are decided by the DM. if you gave no commands to the cohort then all of his actions are decided by the DM.
cohort's initiative: your initiative throw - 2.

also if you meant me as a contributor then please correct the name to "Rigon".

[Wizard_Tom]

Instead of this idea, I would look at how the animal companion is done. The animal companion is a fully-featured creature with its own stats, hp and it gets to be the same level as you, but because of the economy of actions, it remains balanced. The problem with adding another character entirely is that adding a whole set of new actions is too broken no matter what. And if those actions suck (the character is anywhere below your level, automatically making him suck) or it drains on your XP, the feat is unbalanced the other way – being too useless.

But if you have the characters working as a team, sharing powers and actions, it is more balanced. Is it more realistic? No. It's downright unrealistic. Why the hell can't we both move? But I'm beyond giving two diddles about realism (otherwise I wouldn't love 4e), so having an animal companion variant that preserves economy of actions, has special teamwork powers, and is your level, near your hp and has good stats, progresses in XP and advances normally, all of this would be great.

But, here comes the kicker – you don't want to hear this, and I predict this idea is either too much for you or otherwise breaks your sensibilities.

So I don't even know why I try anymore.

I approve this post. It still seems really strong as a feat, but I also understand that people want leadership abilities.

[Izmir Stinger]

I approve this post. It still seems really strong as a feat, but I also understand that people want leadership abilities.

People want to play multiple characters. If they want to play multiple characters they should say, "Hey DM, can I play multiple characters?" And he should say, "No, we don't want to sit around while you have conversations with yourself."