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Thorin
2009-02-19, 08:29 AM
Sooooooo...

We pretty much ended the last campaign we where playing, and I suggested a change and play a gestalt campaign. I wanted to play a gnome illusionist/cloistered cleric (master specialist+shadow mage+shadow crafter), but one of my friends went in a tantrum about me using all the variants that he didnīt knew. So instead of looking them up (even if I had put down the page and book where every rule could be found out); he says "If he makes a character THAT complex, im not sure iīll play"

I know that the easy solution is to say: "ok, donīt play", but he is my best friend after all; so, im changing the PC

I choose less variants and this is what I came with:

Raptoran Sorc/Cleric

Im gonna take all the level substitution i can get (Races of the Wild) And become a Geomancer (Complete Divine) for flavor-full motives.

I know is not a BROKEN char, but is a flavorful one.

PS: MY friend is going to make a Barbarian / Rouge... that IS broken...
PS2: I want to have a powerful PC, but not one that brakes the game
PS4: I Aldŋso considered a Cleric/Favored Soul. If I go with Geomancer, I Only need Charisma to be my casting stat; nut I loose a lot of stuff from not-being-a-Cleric thing

Nohwl
2009-02-19, 09:05 AM
i dont see anything complex about the first character. i use more classes without gestalt than that does.

you might not want to take the substitution levels for raptoran. if your friend doesnt like variants, i wouldnt use them.

how is a barbarian/rogue broken? its not a caster.

Leon
2009-02-19, 09:13 AM
S
I know is not a BROKEN char, but is a flavorful one.


That is the Important bit (oh and that its Fun)

Thorin
2009-02-19, 10:17 AM
i dont see anything complex about the first character. i use more classes without gestalt than that does.

you might not want to take the substitution levels for raptoran. if your friend doesnt like variants, i wouldnt use them.

how is a barbarian/rogue broken? its not a caster.

well...
d12
full BAB
8+int skill points
sneak attack
rouge abilities
damage reduction
rage
evasion
and they continue

lets say lvl we are lvl 5.
He is a semi-orc with a 18 str

in a charge he hits with a +11 and does 1d12+6+3d6
now if I put barbarian rage, weapon focus and semi-orc barbarian substitution lvl 4 you should add a +3 to hit and +5 to damage
(now, if he has magic items or buffs from other party member one should add some pluses.)

And power-attacking -5/+5 the result is something like:
atak +9
dmg 1d12+3d6+6+3+5 (31 approx).

While I cast still 2nd level arcane spells and 3rd lvl divine

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-02-19, 10:31 AM
While I cast still 2nd level arcane spells and 3rd lvl divineWhich is why dual-caster Gestalts are generally weaker. You want one side with lots of abilities that require actions(Caster, ToB) and one side that gives passive benefits such as Feats, HD, and special abilities(Rogue, Fighter, Monk). If side 2 gives more actions to side one(Factotum), even better.

tyckspoon
2009-02-19, 10:42 AM
well...

And power-attacking -5/+5 the result is something like:
atak +9
dmg 1d12+3d6+6+3+5 (31 approx).
While I cast still 2nd level arcane spells and 3rd lvl divine

It's gestalt. This kind of thing is the whole point of it.

In more detail: Your friend has chosen classes that can complement each other. Barbarian is all about hitting stuff; Rogue has an ability that does more damage when you hit stuff. Rogue usually has too few HP to be a front-liner and weaker to-hit rolls, Barbarian covers that. Barbarian doesn't get enough skills, Rogue is there for you. This is exactly what you are supposed to do with Gestalt. (He's also just about at the top of his power curve- his rage and sneak attack won't increase all that quickly unless he starts taking 'variant' PrCs, which it sounds like he doesn't like, and your power will ramp up drastically as you gain new spell levels.)

In comparison, your classes don't do much for each other. You have a lot of versatility and way too many spell slots, but you can still only cast one spell at a time, and neither class has passive features like Rogue has that can enhance another class. Gestalt Sorc//Cleric isn't all that different from just being a Sorcerer or just being a Cleric.

monty
2009-02-19, 12:47 PM
You may want to consider the Dynamic Priest (or Academic Priest, if you play wizard instead of sorcerer) feat from Legends of the Twins, if Dragonlance material is allowed. It changes your casting stat for divine spells to Charisma (or Intelligence) for all purposes except save DCs. If you focus on buffs and no-save spells for your cleric side, you won't have to worry about that.