Spellfire for Vaarsuvius

[Ancalagon]

Hurray, Vaarsuvius is going to get spellfire! And a homebrew version on top of that.

"V" as in "vendetta"!

Or what else would "total arcane power" be in a setting as D&D? A few levels? That'd be boring. Extra-spell-slots? Well, also a bit boring. The ability to cast quickened spells more often? Meh... adjusting the varibales of existing mechanisms is a bit too boring for this comic, I think, Vaarsuvius will get a new ability in this process. Could it be spellfire?

[Volkov]

Hurray, Vaarsuvius is going to get spellfire! And a homebrew version on top of that.

"V" as in "vendetta"!

Or what else would "total arcane power" be in a setting as D&D? A few levels? That'd be boring. Extra-spell-slots? Well, also a bit boring. The ability to cast quickened spells more often? Meh... adjusting the varibales of existing mechanisms is a bit too boring for this comic, I think, Vaarsuvius will get a new ability in this process. Could it be spellfire?
40 extra levels in wizard for free.

[Laughing Dragon]

For those of us who don't have the most recent manuals ... what is SPELLFIRE and why would it be superior to say ... a tweeked sorcerer effect, where he could cast anything from his spellbooks, X times per day, without the need to memorize specific spells (the spellbooks of Dorian Grey).

I mean ... V is about to sell his soul here ... he should get something pretty spectacular for it!

Just getting a pile of extra levels doesn't seem particularly inventive, or fiendish. All such bargened-for power should increase with level as is appropriate, like some sort of obscure elite class. Besides, spells equal to what a 40th level caster could cast might be granted as a one-shot (like a poorly worded wish), I would hope that V is not so short-sighted (even in his compromised state) as to go for something like that.

[Ancalagon]

"Most recent manuls" aren't needed. Anything newer than 15 years or so will do. ;)

Spellfire is the inborn ability of 1 in a million to manipulate raw magical energy. The most boring but very spetactular ability is to create a blast of sliver-white energy that deals damage. But a wielder of spellfire can basically do any cool effect (flying, protection, whatever) since he can manipulate raw energy.

The price for this? You are hunted by every power-hungry mage or arcane organisation who want to "stupy" you and your ability.

[Laughing Dragon]

Thanks for the info ... yes, my manuals are considerably older than 15 years ... dragons can be quite old after all ;)

Yes, I suppose for V that would almost do it since he does seem to have extensive arcane knowledge. In a manna based system such an ability would be quite expensive ... fortunately D&D based magic works differently.

[Ariko]

Also, spellfire is powered by absorbing spells cast at you, up to an amount of spell levels determined by a formula I can't quite recall (or draining magical items).

[Laughing Dragon]

So, as far as being an "ultimate arcane power" it's pretty far up there.

Thanks for the info!

[Yukitsu]

Ultimate arcane power usually means epic level spells to most D&Ders.

[Akatosh]

While that would be sort of cool, why would the fiends offer that much? I mean, it's not like V has many alternatives. They can give him close to nothing, and as long as it's just enough to give his family a chance at survival, he will have to take it. In fact, the sooner he dies and they can make a fiend out of him, the better.

What I'm saying is, give him a teleport scroll and "regaining spells as if he had just rested for 8 hours". :smallamused:

[Raenir Salazar]

He cant use a teleport scroll.


I'm thinking: 6-7 levels of Wizard to 20/21
Spellfire
Specialist change to Generalist.
8 Hours rest and said scroll.

Now, would they want her soul or would they prefer her as an evil servent for now until the end of time?

[RMS Oceanic]

Specialist change to Generalist.

By leafing through Races of the Wild, I can do you one better: Elven Generalist. Instead of specialising, you can gain a bonus spell slot you can use for whatever.

[Volkov]

For those of us who don't have the most recent manuals ... what is SPELLFIRE and why would it be superior to say ... a tweeked sorcerer effect, where he could cast anything from his spellbooks, X times per day, without the need to memorize specific spells (the spellbooks of Dorian Grey).

I mean ... V is about to sell his soul here ... he should get something pretty spectacular for it!

Just getting a pile of extra levels doesn't seem particularly inventive, or fiendish. All such bargened-for power should increase with level as is appropriate, like some sort of obscure elite class. Besides, spells equal to what a 40th level caster could cast might be granted as a one-shot (like a poorly worded wish), I would hope that V is not so short-sighted (even in his compromised state) as to go for something like that.
Being a level 55 wizard would mean V could actually defeat Vecna one on one, and as Vecna is far far above Xykon, even though Xykon has more arcane spell caster levels, that would mean that V could go and demolish the ABD and Xykon too.

I do assume that Xykon is at level 30, at least level 25 and at most level 35.

[Akatosh]

Now, would they want her soul or would they prefer her as an evil servent for now until the end of time?

Well, the IFCC is pretty new to all this stuff; they probably need some immediate returns on their investments, and can't afford to take risks. I'm not sure if it's possible to "redeem" yourself once you're in a fiendish contract, but he might manage to weasle out of it somehow (as did Faust, after all). Then again, being able to show off a high-level spellcaster isn't all that bad, too, and "Thanks to the IFCC, I became an epic-level wizard and slew an ancient black dragon!" makes for a nice article in a marketing brochure. Guess they'll just give him enough stuff for a 50% survival chance and see how it turns out.

Your list sounds pretty nice, but they're probably not going to give him Spellfire. "A bunch of levels, a full night of rest and a free teleport" might not be "ULTIMATE ARCANE POWER", but beggars can't be choosers.

[Volkov]

Well, the IFCC is pretty new to all this stuff; they probably need some immediate returns on their investments, and can't afford to take risks. I'm not sure if it's possible to "redeem" yourself once you're in a fiendish contract, but he might manage to weasle out of it somehow (as did Faust, after all). Then again, being able to show off a high-level spellcaster isn't all that bad, too, and "Thanks to the IFCC, I became an epic-level wizard and slew an ancient black dragon!" makes for a nice article in a marketing brochure. Guess they'll just give him enough stuff for a 50% survival chance and see how it turns out.

Your list sounds pretty nice, but they're probably not going to give him Spellfire. "A bunch of levels, a full night of rest and a free teleport" might not be "ULTIMATE ARCANE POWER", but beggars can't be choosers.
It depends on whether V signs a pact insidious or pact certain. Insidious can be weaseled out of, Pact certain is just like it's name implies, your trip to the hells is certain. Also almost all signers of a pact end up getting killed soon after they get their reward/finish the task that caused them to seek out infernal powers in the first place.

[King of Nowhere]

I'm not sure about the specifics, but shouldn't the anti magic field nullify any offensive spell cast against the dragon? V could be a level 60 wizard, mama dragon can cast the field and take hir down physically.
I seem to recall that Mordenkainen's disjunction has a 1% chance per caster level to dispel an anti magic field, yet if V is unlucky in hir rolls, he'll die anyway.

Crap, how can you consistently damage a dragon with an anti magic field that flies above the range of any melee attackers? Any fly spell to reach him will vanish before you can attack. Seems the only chance is getting a flying mount.

[Nerdanel]

I'm not sure about the specifics, but shouldn't the anti magic field nullify any offensive spell cast against the dragon? V could be a level 60 wizard, mama dragon can cast the field and take hir down physically.
I seem to recall that Mordenkainen's disjunction has a 1% chance per caster level to dispel an anti magic field, yet if V is unlucky in hir rolls, he'll die anyway.

Crap, how can you consistently damage a dragon with an anti magic field that flies above the range of any melee attackers? Any fly spell to reach him will vanish before you can attack. Seems the only chance is getting a flying mount.

Certain damaging spell effects remain in existence in an antimagic field when cast from the outside. Unfortunately for V, these tend to be conjurations and conjuration is a banned school for V...

[Cute_Riolu]

Shrink Item, and giant fricken' boulder. As the pebble hits the antimagic field, it dismisses the shrink item and grows, smashing in full force onto the dragon.

[Joran]

While that would be sort of cool, why would the fiends offer that much? I mean, it's not like V has many alternatives. They can give him close to nothing, and as long as it's just enough to give his family a chance at survival, he will have to take it. In fact, the sooner he dies and they can make a fiend out of him, the better.

What I'm saying is, give him a teleport scroll and "regaining spells as if he had just rested for 8 hours". :smallamused:

The IFCC knows about the gates, knows about the Order of the Stick. I have a feeling they're not after V's soul in particular, they'll probably want some kind of favor or future considerations involving the gates. Having a really powerful servant with an inside track on the gates is in their favor.

[King of Nowhere]

Shrink Item, and giant fricken' boulder. As the pebble hits the antimagic field, it dismisses the shrink item and grows, smashing in full force onto the dragon.

Not sure, must see how the conservation of momentum applies

[Larspcus2]

Not sure, must see how the conservation of momentum applies

Well, let's say that V can impart an average force of 15 N onto a pebble with a mass of 0.2 kg over a period of .2 second. This would impart 15 * .2 = 3 Joules onto the pebble. Because of the conservation of energy, the boulder would strike the dragon with 3 J of energy. If we say that the boulder colliding with the dragon takes 0.1 seconds, the boulder will hit the dragon with a force of 30N, not very much.

If, however, V was able to lob the pebble so it came into the antimagic field 5m above the dragon, when it collided w/ the dragon it would have (assuming a mass of 50kg for the boulder) 50 * 9.8 * 5 = 2,450 J which, assuming a .1 second collision again, would hit the dragon with a force of 24,500 N, doing a lot of damage.

[Cute_Riolu]

Well, let's say that V can impart an average force of 15 N onto a pebble with a mass of 0.2 kg over a period of .2 second. This would impart 15 * .2 = 3 Joules onto the pebble. Because of the conservation of energy, the boulder would strike the dragon with 3 J of energy. If we say that the boulder colliding with the dragon takes 0.1 seconds, the boulder will hit the dragon with a force of 30N, not very much.

If, however, V was able to lob the pebble so it came into the antimagic field 5m above the dragon, when it collided w/ the dragon it would have (assuming a mass of 50kg for the boulder) 50 * 9.8 * 5 = 2,450 J which, assuming a .1 second collision again, would hit the dragon with a force of 24,500 N, doing a lot of damage.

Ahhh! Math! My eyes!

[snafu]

Hasn't the antimagic field been dispelled already? The dragon dropped that in order to teleport away.

I'd conserve the pebble's momentum rather than its energy; I surmise that the spell can provide extra energy if needed, but momentum would imply recoil and none is mentioned in the spell description.

I like the idea of throwing it so that it hits the antimagic field above the dragon, though. Whatever the details of how magic interacts with physics, there's still a great big boulder above the dragon :-)

[Assassin89]

So the main idea for Vaarsuvius gaining power is "rock falls, dragon dies"?

In order for a boulder to be lethal, sufficient kinetic energy is needed.

[Zevox]

I really doubt we'll see Spellfire in the OotS. It's a setting-specific thing from the Forgotten Realms, not a basic D&D ability. Even if Rich knows about it, I doubt he'd want to include something from a specific setting rather than generic D&D. And there's also the question of if copyright laws would let him.

Zevox

[GSFB]

Defeating an anti-magic field? Simple enough.

Mordenkainen's Dysjunction.

Also, artifacts are not affected by the field - a PC high enough level to be taking on an ancient dragon with extra levels solo could have access to such items.

Then there is the "psionics are different" rule.

You also have brute strength. As in, recruit support from a larger dragon.

Poison also works well. Granted, dragons have tremendous saving throws against the stuff, but at these levels a PC might be able to obtain things like concentrated colossal scorpion venom with its 50-something DC.

Worried about hitting the dragon when it is flying high and your fly spell won't work in anti-magic? Try flying above the dragon and shooting down.

Now, on to the more serious question - what is ultimate arcane power?

Spellfire sounds fun and all, but that is a campaign-world specific thing. There is no sign of it entering here. Also, it might be copyrighted or something (no idea) so beware of lawyers from the spooky wizard, the one by the coast...

No, there are really only two options I see here:

One is epic-level magic. However, we have already established from the Cloister and the magic of the Gates that others have achieved epic-level magic, yet have not yet demonstrated what one might call "ultimate" arcane power. The Gates can be destroyed. The Cloister effect is limited duration.

So I think option two is more likely: the Wish spell.

We have no evidence that anyone in this setting has ever cast a Wish spell. Even an epic-level wizard might not even learn the spell. It is not like you can just read about it at the local library and copy it into your spell book. Some wizards spend their lifetimes trying to master the Wish and end up insane or killed by their magic.

What can a Wish do? ANYTHING.

Granted, the PHB description talks about some arbitrary limitations, like creating an item up to a certain value. But those aren't limitations on the absolute power of the Wish. No, they are only limitations on what a player should be able to Wish for without unexpected difficulty. You could Wish for a priceless artifact. The limitation doesn't mean you won't get it. But it might mean that you are transported to the location of the artifact - while it is in the possession of a powerful foe who is unwilling to part with it.

Wish spells would allow Vaarsuvius to teleport, to kill a foe from a distance, to bring back the dead from otherwise unraiseable status, and more.

And... certain powerful fiends have the ability to grant Wishes in exchange for nefarious requests, such as souls.

Thus, I predict that V will obtain the ultimate arcane power of the Wish. That means a bump up to at least 17th level (with enough extra XP to allow at least a few castings) and the addition of Wish to the spell book.

This is something I would expect the fiends would be able to arrange - for the right price, like involuntary servitude for the advancement of evil.

And V would be unwise to attempt to use a Wish to get out of the bargain. Sure, it is possible, but remember those unintended consequences. Such a Wish might result in V reverting back to the moment before accepting the deal, and therefore losing loved ones after all...

[Laughing Dragon]

Ahhh, the Wish. Now we're getting closer.

Epic spells are nice ... but the real question is: do they provide the user with ULTIMATE ARCANE POWER?

As any spellcaster of sufficient level gets them eventually I think that the answer (at least as far as I'm concerned) is NO.

If SPELLFIRE is out (and, according to the threads here I think that it has to be) then Wish might be the next best thing.

Although, the spell books of Dorian Grey (allowing quickened, silenced, stilled, maximized, etc. spells without study or rest) and a shift to Elven Generalist (allowing for the removal of the "no conjuration" restriction) would still come pretty close. I'd like to think that Rich will come up with something fairly unique to solve this puzzle (like coming up with an otherwise unknown elite class for Elan) as that will keep everyone guessing and make us all keep reading.

I guess Rich's answer to this dilemma will show what kind of DM he is. It will also let us know just how far the "gloves" will come off for the rest of the story (meaning the BIG STORY, not just this small bite of it).

[tcrudisi]

I like the Wish idea. Plus, it fits the idea of the 4 words. Something like, "I wish for ***". Did we learn the dragons name? If so, "I wish /dragon/ dead!"

There are a lot of possibilities for it, including that the wish is used and it doesn't have the 4 words involved. :-P

[Ancalagon]

While that would be sort of cool, why would the fiends offer that much? I mean, it's not like V has many alternatives. They can give him close to nothing, and as long as it's just enough to give his family a chance at survival, he will have to take it. In fact, the sooner he dies and they can make a fiend out of him, the better.

I think you did not understand what this is about for the fiends:
The fiends don't care about the dragon or V's power. They want a word in the gate thing, to permanently shift the balance towards evil (remember the plot when Sabine reportet the gate-thing to the three fiends?). The dragon is just a convienient circumstance but they really want V bound to help them.

Being able to get their hands on the gates (and maybe doing something simillar than what Redcloak plans)... yes, they'd offer something as big as that. They'd offer even more and sell their (if they had them) grandmas on top of that!
Don't think about dragons. Think about what power the fiends would get if they win the control over the gates - and V is one of the persons that are most involved in that.

@Epic spells: No one said spellfire could not be used to dublicate epic effects. Remember that this ability is "the joker of abilities", a gm can do with it whatever he wants and needs. The rules (Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting 3.5) even state there's basically no limit. And it's also the exact thing Rich would take and grind through his homebrew-machine. ;)

[Laughing Dragon]

Thanks, Ancalagon, for revealing the steaks (well done Black Dragon, I believe)

The fiends have a lot at stake here. They've (probably) been given an ultamatum from "lower down" about the Gates ... therefore they don't want to offer V just enough power, they want to give him enough that they have a "controlling interest" in V's behavior from this point forward. They need to assure that at any junctures of their choosing they can drop V a note and tell him of exactaly what actions they need him to take, and expect that their wishes (pun?) will be carried out.

The short-term good news: V's family will be spared! No "deal with the devil et al" that starts with a double-cross will achieve their ends. If V loses his family, then he would probably give up his life rather than continue to do the fiends bidding.

The bad news: all of V's choices from here on out will be in-name-only ... he will be like a puppet on invisible strings, and the only real "choices" that he will be allowed to make won't be of any real consequence. (although, like Emperor Landau in Babylon 5 ... he may be able to "leak" some tidbits of information about his true situation and motives from time to time) My crystal ball shows that V's gender (or lack thereof) will become less of an issue than his true motives in any given situation.

As for the "spellfire" issue ... I suppose that if it's not actually called "spellfire" V could still get a similar effect without Rich running into legal difficulties on the material plane. Maybe V could explain his newfound effects on acquireing some new item ...

[Ancalagon]

Londo, ffs! ;)

[Scurvy Cur]

I strongly doubt that the ability will be spellfire, or any fascimile therof. And not because it's a possible copyright infringement. Spellfire, at least as it showed up in the books it showed up in, is a sort of arcane equivalent of god mode, and it was probably the single most dramatically unsatisfying bit of quasi-mechanical fluff ever implemented. I doubt very much that Rich's solution to V's current problems is going to be to turn him into a plot bulldozer.

It's for a similar reason that I also suspect that V's pact will be a Pact Insidious, rather than a Pact Certain. The former gives much more room to work with, plot-wise, and allows the fall to be a rich and gradual descent rather than a hard and fast instant evil. Although admittedly, if Rich is using a set of rules similar to those outlined in the Fiendish Codex II, a skilled representative might be able to get V's immortal soul off the hook by pressing the duress clause skillfully enough (see one of the other threads in which I'm fairly sure Faustian Pacts and their treatment in the FCII come up).

I'm also very skeptical that V is on the cusp of the UAP that people seem to think he's going to get at every turn. Remember that the Oracle stated that he'd say the four right words to the right being (not beings) at the right time for all the wrong reasons. As things stand, he looks to be on the verge of saying the wrong words to the wrong beings at the wrong time for all the right reasons (to save his family, arguably some of the very few beings he actually cares personally for). I could be wrong, but I'm just not willing to assume that UAP is nearly V's.

[magic9mushroom]

The IFCC give Vaarsuvius divine rank 1 and the salient divine abilities Alter Reality and Divine Spellcasting.


Alter Reality

The deity can change reality to suit itself.
Prerequisites: Cha 29.
Benefit: This ability is similar to the Wish spell. The deity merely thinks of something and then makes it so. Doing this requires at least a standard action.
Notes: The deity can duplicate any spell of 9th level or lower as a standard action. The duplicated spell has no material or XP component, and the DC of its saving throw (if one is allowed) is 20 + the deity's rank + the deity's Cha modifier.
The deity also can duplicate a spell with any metamagic feat (so long as the metamagic feat is available to characters of 20th level or lower). This use of the ability requires the deity to rest for 1 round for each level that the feat would normally add to the spell. It still takes a standard action to use this ability, so there is no point in using the ability to duplicate a quickened spell.
The deity can render a magical or supernatural effect permanent. The rest requirement varies with the effect: 10 minutes per level of the effect times the number of subjects affected, 10 minutes per total Hit Dice of creatures affected, or 10 minutes per 10-foot cube affected. Use the highest applicable value.
The deity can create temporary, nonmagical objects. This works like the Create Object ability (including the required rest period), except that the items last one day per rank. The deity also can create permanent nonmagical objects as if using the Create Object ability except that all rest requirements are doubled and there is no reduction in rest time for being on an Outer Plane or in the deity's home realm.
The deity can create temporary magic items or creatures. This works like the Divine Creation ability (including the required rest period), except that the items or creatures created last 1 hour per rank. This ability cannot create permanent magic items or creatures.
The deity can reshape a landscape, creating any type of terrain the deity can imagine. Each 10-foot cube of material to be reshaped requires 1 round of effort, and the deity must rest for one day per 10-foot cube shaped after the work is completed.
Suggested Portfolio Elements: Any.


Divine Spellcasting

The deity is an extremely accomplished spellcaster.
Prerequisites: Spellcaster level 20th.
Benefit: The deity can cast spells whose effective level is above 9th. The number of spells per day the deity can cast of each spell level above 9th depends on the deity's key ability score for spellcasting classes in which the deity has achieved 20th level, as shown on Table 2-6: Divine Spellcasting. The numbers on that table represent one spell per day at each spell level above 9th in which it receives bonus spells from its key ability score, plus bonus spells based on the key ability score. The deity can use these slots for spells prepared or cast with a metamagic feat, or for lower-level spells.
If the deity has achieved 20th level in a spellcasting class with fewer than nine levels of spells (such as bard, paladin, or ranger), the deity can also cast one spell per day of each level between the maximum normal spell level and 9th, plus appropriate bonus spells of each level based on the deity's key ability score. These spells are not shown on Table 2-6.
The deity also doesn't incur attacks of opportunity for casting spells when threatened.
In addition, the deity receives the benefit of the Spell Focus feat on any spell it casts.
Suggested Portfolio Elements: Magic.


Those two abilities, plus the Epic Feat Epic Spellcasting, are pretty much the definition of "complete and total ultimate arcane power".

[SoC175]

Spellfire, at least as it showed up in the books it showed up in, is a sort of arcane equivalent of god mode, and it was probably the single most dramatically unsatisfying bit of quasi-mechanical fluff ever implemented. .
While it's a sort of arcane god mode in the novels, it's actually pretty crappy in the rules.

[CreganTur]

While it's a sort of arcane god mode in the novels, it's actually pretty crappy in the rules.

Unless you take the Spellfire Channler prestige class, then it gets less crappy!

I played a Spellfire Monk once- and yes, I basically played him like a DBZ character... to my everlasting shame.

Anyway, my DM and I drew up some rules and feats I could take that would allow the spellfire monk to make Spellcraft checks against spells he sees. Then he can make a spellcraft check within a certain number of rounds to mimick the same spell via spellfire. We also made rules for the monk actually remembering how to mimick a certain spell after seeing it used/using it a certain number of times.

It was pretty cool... for the single session that he survived. As a tradeoff for getting spellfire, my DM nerfed my levels. We were playing an Epic campaign- everyone else was > lvl 21, while I was stuck at lvl 11. It was a bad trade.

[Lamech]

I'm also very skeptical that V is on the cusp of the UAP that people seem to think he's going to get at every turn. Remember that the Oracle stated that he'd say the four right words to the right being (not beings) at the right time for all the wrong reasons. As things stand, he looks to be on the verge of saying the wrong words to the wrong beings at the wrong time for all the right reasons (to save his family, arguably some of the very few beings he actually cares personally for). I could be wrong, but I'm just not willing to assume that UAP is nearly V's.
I think she's doing this for the wrong reasons, but she is doing the right thing. If she wanted just wanted her family saved why is she so focused on getting power? Why not a devilish ally like a pit fiend? Slay the dwagon and you'll get my soul. She didn't say do something, my family needs saving, but I need power! Now!

And of course it is the right thing since it trades a soul for the salvation of two souls. A highly altruistic action.

[Dixieboy]

Giving V a level 1 feat from another settings seems sort of iffy :/

[magic9mushroom]

Giving V a level 1 feat from another settings seems sort of iffy :/

Less or more iffy than a salient divine ability? :smalltongue:

[sidhe3141]

The IFCC give Vaarsuvius divine rank 1 and the salient divine abilities Alter Reality and Divine Spellcasting.


Alter Reality

The deity can change reality to suit itself.
Prerequisites: Cha 29.
Benefit: This ability is similar to the Wish spell. The deity merely thinks of something and then makes it so. Doing this requires at least a standard action.
Notes: The deity can duplicate any spell of 9th level or lower as a standard action. The duplicated spell has no material or XP component, and the DC of its saving throw (if one is allowed) is 20 + the deity's rank + the deity's Cha modifier.
The deity also can duplicate a spell with any metamagic feat (so long as the metamagic feat is available to characters of 20th level or lower). This use of the ability requires the deity to rest for 1 round for each level that the feat would normally add to the spell. It still takes a standard action to use this ability, so there is no point in using the ability to duplicate a quickened spell.
The deity can render a magical or supernatural effect permanent. The rest requirement varies with the effect: 10 minutes per level of the effect times the number of subjects affected, 10 minutes per total Hit Dice of creatures affected, or 10 minutes per 10-foot cube affected. Use the highest applicable value.
The deity can create temporary, nonmagical objects. This works like the Create Object ability (including the required rest period), except that the items last one day per rank. The deity also can create permanent nonmagical objects as if using the Create Object ability except that all rest requirements are doubled and there is no reduction in rest time for being on an Outer Plane or in the deity's home realm.
The deity can create temporary magic items or creatures. This works like the Divine Creation ability (including the required rest period), except that the items or creatures created last 1 hour per rank. This ability cannot create permanent magic items or creatures.
The deity can reshape a landscape, creating any type of terrain the deity can imagine. Each 10-foot cube of material to be reshaped requires 1 round of effort, and the deity must rest for one day per 10-foot cube shaped after the work is completed.
Suggested Portfolio Elements: Any.


Divine Spellcasting

The deity is an extremely accomplished spellcaster.
Prerequisites: Spellcaster level 20th.
Benefit: The deity can cast spells whose effective level is above 9th. The number of spells per day the deity can cast of each spell level above 9th depends on the deity's key ability score for spellcasting classes in which the deity has achieved 20th level, as shown on Table 2-6: Divine Spellcasting. The numbers on that table represent one spell per day at each spell level above 9th in which it receives bonus spells from its key ability score, plus bonus spells based on the key ability score. The deity can use these slots for spells prepared or cast with a metamagic feat, or for lower-level spells.
If the deity has achieved 20th level in a spellcasting class with fewer than nine levels of spells (such as bard, paladin, or ranger), the deity can also cast one spell per day of each level between the maximum normal spell level and 9th, plus appropriate bonus spells of each level based on the deity's key ability score. These spells are not shown on Table 2-6.
The deity also doesn't incur attacks of opportunity for casting spells when threatened.
In addition, the deity receives the benefit of the Spell Focus feat on any spell it casts.
Suggested Portfolio Elements: Magic.


Those two abilities, plus the Epic Feat Epic Spellcasting, are pretty much the definition of "complete and total ultimate arcane power".
Problem: V isn't an epic character, and probably doesn't meet the Cha prerequisite.

[Keinnicht]

Problem: V isn't an epic character, and probably doesn't meet the Cha prerequisite.

Except, you know, he'd gain Divine Rank 1.

I'm willing to bet that more happens to you than getting a little thing below your class and level on your character sheet when you hit divine rank. As in, major ability boosts.

I had the thought, but I think it's fairly unlikely anything as overkill as Divine Rank will be implemented. For one thing, it's a stupid bunch of demons that would give someone divine rank, for two reasons.
1: I'm pretty sure divine rank makes you immortal. This would make collecting on the soul take a very long time.
2: Do you know what happens when you try to collect on that debt? The person smites you. I don't think their are many demons that could compete with a DR 1 anything, let alone one with Alter Reality.

Also, Alter Reality would take away the point of the campaign. Xykon causing trouble? Delete.

Maybe V will get like the Uberspell. Like, anyone remember Vengeful Gaze of God or whatever that thing in the Epic Level Handbook is? The one that deals like 300D6 damage to the target and 200D6 to the caster? Maybe like that, but with the backlash removed.

Maybe V could just dump people into the Far Realm? That'd be fairly impressive. Though probably not going to happen.

[Xerrik]

I know! V will be able to cast any spell from the Magic the GatheringTM game. WRATH OF GOD!

He'd need to get some lands first, though...

[Rabidferret]

I've stated before my belief that the result of V's pact won't be ultimate arcane power (despite the assumptions of everyone else). It's logical for a multitude of reasons, not least of which is the scope of the power relative to the point in the story's progress. Good plot writing demands that the crisis of V's empowerment must coincide with the climax relating to Snarl (who, by the way, will be the source of V's new power imo).

This last comic might throw a curve at my predictions. The daemon (I assume - he's the one standing "in the middle" of the trio) in the last panel talks about "Magical power beyond [V's] wildest imaginings." Like Han Solo in Episode IV, I'm betting he "...can imagine quite a lot."

Whichever way it goes I'm sure it'll be an interesting ride.

[Spiky]

One point that people seem to forget is that V is on a quest for ultimate power. He is not on a quest to stop the Snarl or Xykon. That is Roy's quest. Nor is the TN V particularly loyal to anyone but his family and possibly Haley. I could see V just taking off if he gets one of these abilities/levels. ie, OOTS plot doesn't get trashed.

[Ancalagon]

The addition of "rules" for gods was one of the most stupid things the Wizards did (and they did a lot of stupid things ;)). A few guidelines would have been enough. A gm who needs rules to play his gods (or even rolls dice when they are involved) should get punished by his players severely (removal of coke and chips, forced out of his GM-position, ...). ;)

Apart from that: Cha 29 is something a high level player can reach if he wants to and let's his char revolve around that: Start with 18, put your level points into it (brings you to 22, then get a +5 increase due to wish/magic/tome of good-looking/whatever) and get a +5 item on top of that. But I guess Vaarsivuius would rather go for 30 int.

Playing "mortals" with scores above 22 to 25ish is of course somewhat strange as well. ;)

[Laughing Dragon]

Many thanks to Scurvy Cur who writes:

>> It's for a similar reason that I also suspect that V's pact will be a Pact Insidious, rather than a Pact Certain. The former gives much more room to work with, plot-wise, and allows the fall to be a rich and gradual descent rather than a hard and fast instant evil. Although admittedly, if Rich is using a set of rules similar to those outlined in the Fiendish Codex II, a skilled representative might be able to get V's immortal soul off the hook by pressing the duress clause skillfully enough ... << (Sorry for the lack of a proper "quote box" ... I'm new to all this and haven't figured out that subtlety yet)

I think that you make an excellent point. A gradual descent into evil will be much more dramatic and interesting to watch (if somewhat maddening) and will create a wealth of interlinked actions/plots. Also with Roy's girlfriend being an outsider lawyer it makes the last bit seem quite plausable (so long as V doesn't descend too far toward the evil side of things).

I also now believe that Scruvy Cur is correct as far as the UAP is concerened ... considering that there are probably as many books still unpublished for this story as have been published (and I'm refering to those published only to the web as well as printed books) then it really IS too soon for V to achieve UAP.

Quite compelling arguments Scurvy Cur ... my complements!

[SirEdward]

I know I'm late to the pebble/boulder tangent, but I am compelled...

I do not believe energy or momentum is conserved, as the shrinking/non-shrinking is based upon magical effects. I reason as such because of the cube/square problems that are normally dismissed with shrinking or enlarging. As such, perhaps it is best considered by conserving solely the velocity.

By doing so, a wizard with sufficient preparation could be very dangerous. Of course, that wizard is just as easy to be squashed by another wizard, so who knows how it ends.

[keybounce]

Thanks for the info ... yes, my manuals are considerably older than 15 years ... dragons can be quite old after all ;)

Hey, my four manuals are small paperbacks. But I do have the first three hardbounds as well.

Or rather, did; I haven't seen them in about 5 moves now.

[2xMachina]

What's the thing that lets you give 1 of your divine rank to someone, and they'll be an "agent" or something?

Let's assume IFCC is backed by Asmodeus (he wants the stop the Blood War for a while, to crush good, then the demons), and that he has divine ranks (well, he's not a god technically, but with the soul harvesting, he has some divine power). (EDIT: Wikipedia says something about one of the 8 lords borrowing divine energy from others to research hellfire.)

V talks to Asmodeus, accepts it. No need to harvest his soul. I dare say a wizard with divine rank on the material plane is a very good asset.

EDIT: Ah, right. Looked up Pun Pun, and it's the proxy that moves divine ranks.

[tigerhawkvok]

Maybe V will get like the Uberspell. Like, anyone remember Vengeful Gaze of God or whatever that thing in the Epic Level Handbook is? The one that deals like 300D6 damage to the target and 200D6 to the caster? Maybe like that, but with the backlash removed.
<nitpick>Actually, its 40d6 backlash if I recall, and 300d6 to everything in a 1 mile radius.</nitpick>

[Moriarty]

<nitpick>Actually, its 40d6 backlash if I recall, and 300d6 to everything in a 1 mile radius.</nitpick>

The target of this spell is subject to 305d6 points of damage (or half of that if a Fortitude save succeeds). If the target is reduced to -10 hit points or less (or a construct, object, or undead is reduced to 0 hit points), it is utterly destroyed as if disintegrated, leaving behind only a trace of fine dust. The caster is likewise dealt 200d6 points of damage
(http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/spells/vengefulGazeOfGod.htm)

at least under 3.5 rules

[magic9mushroom]

Except, you know, he'd gain Divine Rank 1.

I'm willing to bet that more happens to you than getting a little thing below your class and level on your character sheet when you hit divine rank. As in, major ability boosts.

I had the thought, but I think it's fairly unlikely anything as overkill as Divine Rank will be implemented. For one thing, it's a stupid bunch of demons that would give someone divine rank, for two reasons.
1: I'm pretty sure divine rank makes you immortal. This would make collecting on the soul take a very long time.
2: Do you know what happens when you try to collect on that debt? The person smites you. I don't think their are many demons that could compete with a DR 1 anything, let alone one with Alter Reality.

Also, Alter Reality would take away the point of the campaign. Xykon causing trouble? Delete.

Maybe V will get like the Uberspell. Like, anyone remember Vengeful Gaze of God or whatever that thing in the Epic Level Handbook is? The one that deals like 300D6 damage to the target and 200D6 to the caster? Maybe like that, but with the backlash removed.

Maybe V could just dump people into the Far Realm? That'd be fairly impressive. Though probably not going to happen.

Proxies. V will have to keep doing what the Infernals (my guess at what the IFCC are, given their beyond-epic capabilities) want, or they take it away again. If they get V to kill people and bind their souls (something which she has less aversion to than most) then they could end up recouping their investment.

Alter Reality isn't enough by itself to squash an epic character. We don't know how powerful Xykon truly is. We do know he has Epic Spellcasting, which means he's a credible threat to a (weak) demigod if he's got the Spellcraft for it.

Also, power beyond V's wildest imaginings stinks very strongly of high-Epic or Divine, as V knows about Epic Spells and hence those wouldn't be beyond her wildest imaginings.

The power's definitely there in the Nine Hells for it, most lords of Hell are rank 1 demigods.

[thubby]

levels in warlock and that mage/lcok prestige class?
i mean, warlocks are the product of demonic pacts

[whitelaughter]

Problem: V isn't an epic character, and probably doesn't meet the Cha prerequisite.
Most certainly doesn't meet the Cha attribute; V complains hir low charisma when Haley demands that V apologise to Elan.

[Keinnicht]

levels in warlock and that mage/lcok prestige class?
i mean, warlocks are the product of demonic pacts

Both warlock and a prestige class seem lame. I mean, seriously, if V picks up a couple levels of warlock all she gets is a few at will spell like abilities and a magic blast that doesn't do much damage. I'm guessing that's not outside the realm of V's imagination.

As for prestige class, having "Ultimate arcane power" available as a prestige class just seems completely too crunchy and uninteresting. It seems to me ultimate arcane power shouldn't have things like "Prerequisite: Improved Spell Penetration, Knowledge (Arcana) 20 ranks, etc."

[Rotipher]

Alter Reality isn't enough by itself to squash an epic character. We don't know how powerful Xykon truly is. We do know he has Epic Spellcasting, which means he's a credible threat to a (weak) demigod if he's got the Spellcraft for it.

Are we sure that Xykon, himself, has epic-grade power? I thought he was only able to impose the Cloister effect on Azure City because Dorukan had left a Cloister-invoking magic circlet behind in his home. Would the lich need epic power to activate such an item, or could he do it with plain ol' Use Magical Device?

[Keinnicht]

Are we sure that Xykon, himself, has epic-grade power? I thought he was only able to impose the Cloister effect on Azure City because Dorukan had left a Cloister-invoking magic circlet behind in his home. Would the lich need epic power to activate such an item, or could he do it with plain ol' Use Magical Device?

No, the circlet doesn't invoke it. The circlet is the focus for the spell.

[magic9mushroom]

No, the circlet doesn't invoke it. The circlet is the focus for the spell.

To expand on that, Celia said that it went off when Dorukan died, but then reappeared 6 months later when Xykon had mastered it himself. We see a cutaway of Xykon calling it a focus.

Oh, and by the way, you can't make a magic item that casts an epic spell unless you're a GOD. Dorukan was not one.

Also, Xykon's statement on how many levels he is above Roy. Roy is level 13 at the time and Xykon says "Seven? Eight? More?".