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Hawk7915
2009-02-19, 04:07 PM
So, a long long time ago I mentioned I was going to run an epic "Arena of the Gods" campaign for some friends. The premise of the campaign is that the world’s finest heroes and strongest villains have been invited to a grand contest to possibly be allowed into the Pantheon (the winner will actually be a diety in any future campaign I DM). I got some good general advice, but then the game fell though...until now. It's happening, and I need advice for a few things...first, the current Houserules of The Arena:

-36 pt. buy, no LA buy-off, 1,025,000 GP to spend on items. Consumable items (Elixirs, Potions, Scrolls, Wands) cost x2 DMG price.

- Unless otherwise noted, any feat or book is allowed. Since we do not own all books however, I need a credible source for some classes/feats...in practice, this means that only classes and PrC's from Complete Warrior, Complete Arcane, Complete Adventurer, Races of the Dragon, PH2, and of course core books are allowed. Feats are accesible through other means and some classes can be fudged via WotC's previews (they still have Archivist and Radiant Servant up over there, for example), but in general just those classes are allowed.

- Wish and/or Miracle is limited to one per character capable of them for the entire session. Zeus makes the rules, and those are them.

-Resurrection via the spell is mostly impossible: Resurrect from a SLA (a half-celestial of 19HD and 12+int, for instance) works just fine, but just like Wish it only works once. Basically, death is going to be fairly permanent and the party has to burn one of their few rare "get out of jail free" cards to save a fallen ally.

-The party always knows about their encounter 14 hours before it starts, to give them time to prepare necessary spells, heal themselves, change spell lists, get new weapons, etc.

-Any buff of 10min/level or longer may be applied upon waking up. Shorter buffs, even extended and persisted ones, are applied in the arena. Each side (monsters and players) gets three rounds to buff without interruption before combat begins.

-(still being debated...): Power Attack, like Combat Expertise, is capped at a -5. If made by a Frenzied Berserker with Improved Power Attack, the cap goes to -10.

- No XP penalty for multiclass abuse, but also no more than 6 classes per character.

Here are the encounters I submit to you guys to help tell me if they are fair...for the record, we have four confirmed players right now, they are:
1. "Illidan" -Elven Half-fiend Barbarian/Fighter/Scout/Ranger/Dervish/Tempest
2. "Kael'thas" - Drow Sorcerer/Blood Magus
3. "Dr00d" - Tortle Druid/Master of Many Forms/Warshaper?
4. "Dr. Manhattan" - Human Half-celestial Wizard/IotSFV/Fatespinner

And likely two more players, playing unknown (hopefully a more competent divine caster) and an Orc ubercharger.

THE FIGHTS:Round 1: 3 Balors. Arena will look like Hell itself (Lava Pits, spiky rocks for cover, etc).

Round 2: "The Puzzle" - A giant undispellable, un-AMFable Prismatic Sphere with adult dragons, traps, and tuckers kobolds on the outside and an angry Old Prismatic Dragon at the gooey center. The objective is to steal a prismatic dragon egg and bring it up to a hoop 300' above the arena floor.

Round 3: “Survival” – Survive for 1 minute in a venomous swamp arena crawling with Devestation Vermin ( http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/devastationVermin.htm)

Round 4: “Titanic Struggle”- prevent the “Fel Reaver”, an Iron Colossus ( http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/colossus.htm#ironColossus) with extra HD and an int score so he can take feats) from destroying Athens.

Round 5: “Final Test” – beat Hercules, a demigod of strength, in a gladiatorial match.

Round 6: “To challenge a God” – Defeat Zeus in an arena and with special rules of his choosing.
For all rounds, there will be special “hard-mode” rules that will give the players artifact-level prizes or rewards, so they at least have a sporting chance against a friggin God. For instance, if they can kill each Balor within one round of each other, I design and give each player a +20 weapon that would normally simply be beyond their WBL gains. Beating Hercules in 2 turns gives them the ability to choose the time, place, and rules of the Zeus fight instead (i.e. they are fighting over the ocean so that Zeus’ lifeblood doesn’t overwhelm them with elephants)

So, I currently have two questions…
1. Can the presented party actually win these challenges? Do any of them seem to easy? Too hard? I am particularly worried about the Colossus and his ability to negate almost all of the teams attacks, which is why the objective is vague (stop him from destroying the city) rather than specific (kill it!).

2. Epic spells…halp! Both my casters took them. The rule was that they had to make the DC on a “take 10” without help or they couldn’t have it, and like anything else they couldn’t spend more than 30% of their wealth on any one spell. The spells we created with those rules…suck. Hard. Dr. Manhattan has an uber-disintegrate that deals 25d6 in a 20’ radius…but it cost him 300,000 GP and he burns 5,000 XP each time he casts it. I thought the sorcerer’s “Summon Titan” spell was sweet until I re-read Gate and saw that Gate does everything he wants and more for no gold and only 1000 XP (as opposed to 3500 XP and 5d6 damage) each casting. What should I do? I was considering:

a. Just cut the cost in half for those spells and remove any “XP” or “damage” backlash from them.
b. Scrap the whole system, houserule a system of 10+ level spell slots, and let them make spells of any level for a cost, supervised by me and probably the homebrew forum.
c. Double any effects currently on those spells, and keep the costs. So 50d6 in a 40’ radius, summon 42 HD of outsider, etc…
Thoughts? Advice? Thanks in advance!

Starbuck_II
2009-02-19, 04:53 PM
Wait, how do they stop the Titan in a way that easier than kill it?

Epic spells:
Wow, these guys need more training in making epic spells, yeah.
There are ways to mitigate those expensive costs.

I'd definately, at the least, cut the cost by 1/2 in gold/xp, since the spells they use are weaker than non-epic spells.

What level are these guys?

Dr Manhattan(assuming spells/metamagic chosen good), could beat the Balors, the puzzle possibly, the swamp, the Struggle, the Final Test, and maybe just maybe Zues (but I'm not sure).

If he uses SR:no spells (they get through magic immunity) then he could kill the collossus creature.

The rest:
1) Illidan" -Elven Half-fiend Barbarian/Fighter/Scout/Ranger/Dervish/Tempest:
He might be able to kill the Balors depending on feats/gear chosen.
The puzzle is all gear since you can't fly without magic usually (I forget if 1/2 Fiends fly).
Survival? How good are his saves?
Iron Colossus? depends on gear.
Final test: Depends on gear.
Zues: depends on gear.

2) Kael'thas" - Drow Sorcerer/Blood Magus:
Blood magus isn't that strong of a class so it makes it hard to decide.
Spells/metamagic chosen matter. Assuming good choices:
He might be able to kill the Balors.
The puzzle is he could fly I guess...but those dragons look tough.
Survival? How good are his saves? He could cast some spells to pull it off debateable.
Iron Colossus? depends on spells like the 1st guy.
Final test: Depends on spells/gear/feats.
Zues: Depends on spells/gear/feats.

3) Dr00d" - Tortle Druid/Master of Many Forms/Warshaper?:
Sheesh, spells matter + what stuff he can pull off with the Prcs.
I'd rate this as a mix between #3 and #1: as he will be meleeing and he can spells.
That spittle spells that blinds enemies until they wash their face in spell compendruim would help alot (but don't know if players own it).

Really, only Mr Manhattan I'm sure of.

Tequila Sunrise
2009-02-19, 05:32 PM
b. Scrap the whole system, houserule a system of 10+ level spell slots, and let them make spells of any level for a cost, supervised by me and probably the homebrew forum.
Yeah, this one. Epic spells are either underpowered or overpowered, depending on the spell seed and a player's ranks in munchkin-fu. I'd suggest that instead of worrying about 10+ level spells, you simply scale caster level caps and save DCs with epic caster levels. If you start getting into 10+ level spells, you'll have casters who can annihilate Zeus with a swift action with their highest level spells but have 200 lower level spell slots that are mostly useless.

TS

BRC
2009-02-19, 05:47 PM
From the looks of things, your PC's don't know how to abuse the epic magic rules, this is a God thing. According to item creation rules, that 300,000gp spent every time the good doctor casts the super disentigrate could buy him a magic item that gives a +54 competance bonus to Spellcraft checks. Besides, he's an epic level Initiate of the sevenfold Veils, you should, under no circumstances, feel that you have not given him enough power.