PDA

View Full Version : [3.5] Pimp my Spellcraft



monty
2009-02-20, 04:45 PM
I'm playing a high-power campaign soon. Long story short, I would like to be able to hit a DC 57 Spellcraft check by level 11.

Important parts of the build:
Race: Dragonwrought Kobold
Class (at 11): Sorcerer 5 / Incantatrix 6 (casting as a 14th level sorcerer)
Base Int 16, no relevant feats.

What I have as a baseline: 14 ranks + 6 Int (with a +6 item) + 10 take ten = 30. Obviously not nearly high enough. The easiest way, of course, would be a custom item of +Spellcraft, but I don't know whether custom items are allowed, so I'd like another way. It doesn't necessarily need to be a long-term effect (I'll probably only need to do it once a day), so a spell the party wizard can pick up or something like that would be fine as well.

Arcane_Snowman
2009-02-20, 04:49 PM
Item Familiar (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/itemFamiliars.htm), while it would loose you a caster level, Exemplar will give you a +4 bonus and the ability to take 10 as well.

monty
2009-02-20, 04:52 PM
Item Familiar (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/itemFamiliars.htm), while it would loose you a caster level, Exemplar will give you a +4 bonus and the ability to take 10 as well.

Knew I was missing something obvious like that.

A +4 bonus would be nice, although it's tough to weigh against a lost caster level, even though I'm already 3 ahead. Take 10, not so much, since I'm not planning to do this in combat anyway.

Arcane_Snowman
2009-02-20, 05:04 PM
well it's even when threatened, etc.
Things to get:

Items:
Luck Stone (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#stoneofGoodLuckLuckstone)
Masterwork Spellcraft Tool

Feats:
Shape Soulmeld (Mage's Spectacles)
Skill Focus (Spellcraft)

(14 ranks +14 Bonus + 6 Intelligence + 4 Competence (Exemplar) +3 Skill Focus (prereq for Exemplar) + 1 Luck Bonus (Luck Stone), +2 Circumstance (Masterwork Artisans Tool) + 4 Insight (Mage's Spectacles) + Take 10) DC 58 Automatically.

If the Masterwork Spellcraft Tool is not acceptable, get Bonus Essentia instead, gives you 2 essentia to pump into Mage's Spectacles for an additional +4 insight bonus.

tyckspoon
2009-02-20, 05:11 PM
Heroism/Greater Heroism is good for another +2/+4 Morale bonus. It's a level 3/6 spell for you. Might not be worth taking as a Spell Known, but you could get an eternal wand of Heroism if you only need to do this once or twice a day. Or just ask your 'party wizard' to cast the Greater version on you.

Shades of Gray
2009-02-20, 05:13 PM
To make up for the lost caster level take practiced spell caster, gets rid of the penalty.

monty
2009-02-20, 05:23 PM
Things to get:

Items:
Luck Stone (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#stoneofGoodLuckLuckstone)
Masterwork Spellcraft Tool

Feats:
Shape Soulmeld (Mage's Spectacles)
Skill Focus (Spellcraft)

(14 ranks +14 Bonus + 6 Intelligence + 4 Competence (Exemplar) +3 Skill Focus (prereq for Exemplar) + 1 Luck Bonus (Luck Stone), +2 Circumstance (Masterwork Artisans Tool) + 4 Insight (Mage's Spectacles) + Take 10) DC 58 Automatically.

If the Masterwork Spellcraft Tool is not acceptable, get Bonus Essentia instead, gives you 2 essentia to pump into Mage's Spectacles for an additional +4 insight bonus.

That's a bit more feat-intensive than I'd like, but I might be able to work it out. Thanks for the suggestions.


To make up for the lost caster level take practiced spell caster, gets rid of the penalty.

I'm more worried about the actually spellcasting ability than just caster level. Most significantly, it would push my first 7th level spell back a level, which is the entire focus of this.

Douglas
2009-02-20, 05:26 PM
A Minor Ring of Spell Storing plus a friendly cleric would let you cast Divine Insight for a (I think) +8 insight bonus to any one skill check. The ring is necessary because it's a personal range spell.

Make it a normal Ring of Spell Storing and you could add Surge of Fortune to upgrade your take 10 to an automatic natural 20.

That would put you at 48. If Item Familiar is allowed, the extra +14 gets you up to 62. If not, Greater Heroism, Skill Focus, a luck stone, and Magical Aptitude combined get you +10 instead for a 58, 1 more than your target DC, and there are more bonuses I could find if I really looked.

Arcane_Snowman
2009-02-20, 05:28 PM
That's a bit more feat-intensive than I'd like, but I might be able to work it out. Thanks for the suggestions. Well, if you would kindly provide a more detailed build including feat selection, it would be easier to determine what could be a good addition :smallsmile:

Are flaws (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingcharacters/characterflaws.htm) available? If they are, they could help with muscle the feat selection into an otherwise feat starved build.

Keld Denar
2009-02-20, 05:49 PM
A Minor Ring of Spell Storing plus a friendly cleric would let you cast Divine Insight for a (I think) +8 insight bonus to any one skill check. The ring is necessary because it's a personal range spell.

You could also use Imbue With Spell Ability. A 12 wisdom would be required by you, IIRC, but this would be cheaper. And Divine Insight (Clr2, SpC) gives a +1 bonus PER CL to a cap of 15. It lasts CL hours/level until discharged. Plus, cleric CLs are easy to increase from things like Divine Spell Power, Bead of Karma, Oracle Domain, Orange IWIN Stone, etc...

I think Item Familiar would be the best way though. Its really strong.

monty
2009-02-20, 05:54 PM
Well, if you would kindly provide a more detailed build including feat selection, it would be easier to determine what could be a good addition :smallsmile:

Are flaws (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingcharacters/characterflaws.htm) available? If they are, they could help with muscle the feat selection into an otherwise feat starved build.

Very well, a full build through level 11 (already have flaws, so that won't help):
Venerable Kobold
Sorcerer 5 / Incantatrix 6
Str 4 Dex 10 Con 12 Int 16 Wis 12 Cha 21 (all levels into Cha)
Flaws: Noncombatant, Vulnerable
Other: Loredrake, (Greater) Draconic Rite of Passage

* means the feat is a prerequisite or otherwise important to the build
{table]Level | Class | Feat(s)
1 | Sorcerer 1 | Dragonwrought*, Extend Spell*, Iron Will*
2 | Sorcerer 2
3 | Sorcerer 3 | Draconic Reservoir*
4 | Sorcerer 4
5 | Sorcerer 5
6 | Incantatrix 1 | Spell Focus (Transmutation)*, Persistent Spell*
7 | Incantatrix 2
8 | Incantatrix 3
9 | Incantatrix 4 | Spell Focus (Conjuration)*, Split Ray
10 | Incantatrix 5
11 | Incantatrix 6[/table]

One of the spell foci can be moved to level 12 if necessary, so that leaves two non-essential feats to work with.

Arcane_Snowman
2009-02-20, 05:55 PM
Otyugh Hole from Complete Scoundrel page 151 will give you Iron Will for 3000 Gp.

Edit: How did you end up with 4 str? Bad roll?

Thurbane
2009-02-20, 06:27 PM
Marshal cohort (or maybe a level in Marshal) with maxxed out Charisma and Potions of Eagle's Splendor can give a +8 or higher circumstance bonus to Intelligence-based skill checks.

[edit]Actually, seeing your build above, a 1 level dip into Marshal might be nice, if you can stand the hit to CL. It'll get you 1 minor aura, Skill Focus (Diplomacy), +2 to Fort and Will saves and proficiency with all martial weapons, all armor types, and shields (excluding tower shields).

If you don't have access to the Miniatures Handbook, WotC have kindly put the Marshal up on their site (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030906b). :smallwink:

tyckspoon
2009-02-20, 06:33 PM
Otyugh Hole from Complete Scoundrel page 151 will give you Iron Will for 3000 Gp.

Edit: How did you end up with 4 str? Bad roll?

By being a Kobold. -4 racial penalty; assuming point buy, he probably would have dumped Strength for this character. So base 8 -4 race gives him 4 Strength.

Arcane_Snowman
2009-02-20, 06:37 PM
:smallannoyed: sometimes I'm just an idiot.

magic9mushroom
2009-02-20, 06:39 PM
Oh, by the way, you know that your build is impossible, right? Sorcerer 5 doesn't meet the prerequisites of Incantatrix. Wizard 5 or Sorcerer 6 is required.

Douglas
2009-02-20, 06:44 PM
What do you need two Spell Focuses for? The only PrC I can think of that requires that is Archmage, and it also requires Skill Focus (Spellcraft). I'm away from my books right now so I can't look up Imbue With Spell Ability, but even if it would work for Divine Insight (and it preserves caster level IIRC, which would make it definitely the better option there) I don't think it works with spells as high level as Surge of Fortune (5th).

What spell are you trying to Persist, btw?

Edit: Duh, Imbue With Spell Ability is core and in the SRD. It works great for Divine Insight, boosting what you can get from that to +15, but can't do Surge of Fortune.

Arcane_Snowman
2009-02-20, 06:56 PM
Oh, by the way, you know that your build is impossible, right? Sorcerer 5 doesn't meet the prerequisites of Incantatrix. Wizard 5 or Sorcerer 6 is required. Loredrake is a template for Dragons that increases your sorcerer level by 2.

monty
2009-02-20, 07:01 PM
Oh, by the way, you know that your build is impossible, right? Sorcerer 5 doesn't meet the prerequisites of Incantatrix. Wizard 5 or Sorcerer 6 is required.

The only thing that wouldn't work is being able to cast third level spells, and Loredrake gives +2 sorcerer level. Cheesy, yes, but it is a high-power game. I expect to be about on the power level of the other characters.


What do you need two Spell Focuses for? The only PrC I can think of that requires that is Archmage, and it also requires Skill Focus (Spellcraft).

Archmage, yes. I have two more general feats before I'm done with Incantatrix (going into Archmage at 16), so that's not a problem.


What spell are you trying to Persist, btw?

Arcane Spellsurge (from Dragon Magic). Look at what it does, and my reasoning should be obvious enough.

pingcode20
2009-02-20, 07:02 PM
And the Greater Draconic Rite gives you another effective sorceror level on top of that. As in, you get the juicy spells, CL, and everything.

Arcane_Snowman
2009-02-20, 07:26 PM
Arcane Spellsurge (from Dragon Magic). Look at what it does, and my reasoning should be obvious enough. I hope there's a sidedish of Greater Arcane Fusion with that :smallwink:

Douglas
2009-02-20, 11:35 PM
Ok, assuming you have a cleric in the party willing to devote one 4th level and two 2nd level spell slots to the effort, I've got an inexpensive solution that does not involve item familiar:

Take Skill Focus (Spellcraft). You'd have to take it eventually for Archmage anyway, so this costs you nothing. Have the cleric cast Imbue With Spell Ability, transferring Divine Insight (Spell Compendium) to you. The cleric also casts Interfaith Blessing (Complete Champion). This assumes you worship one of the deities that gets a skill bonus from Interfaith Blessing. Since this includes all core gods of magic, this should not be onerous. Cast Greater Heroism on yourself, along with the transferred Divine Insight, and use an Eternal Wand (Magic Item Compendium) of Focusing Chant (Spell Compendium) and a caster level 6 Eternal Wand of Improvisation (Spell Compendium). Note that Eternal Wands specifically do not require the spell to be on your class list, only that you can cast arcane spells.

10 Take ten
14 ranks
6 int
3 skill focus
4 morale Greater Heroism
15 insight Divine Insight
1 untyped Interfaith Blessing
1 circumstance Focusing Chant
3 luck Improvisation
57 total.

The Eternal Wand of Focusing Chant costs 820 gp, the CL 6 wand of Improvisation costs 4420 gp (the formula is spell level * caster level * 720 + 100). You will also need to spend a 6th level spell known and spell slot on Greater Heroism, and this assumes the cooperation of a cleric in the party.

If Item Familiar is allowed, you can do without the cleric by boosting the caster level of the Eternal Wand of Improvisation by 4.

Darrin
2009-02-21, 09:29 AM
A Minor Ring of Spell Storing plus a friendly cleric would let you cast Divine Insight for a (I think) +8 insight bonus to any one skill check. The ring is necessary because it's a personal range spell.


Wouldn't a potion work just as well?

Instead of Divine Insight, use Guidance of the Avatar, from the WotC website:

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20010504a

+20 competence bonus to any skill check. This won't stack with other competence bonuses, such as exemplar or items like spellsight spectacles. But it's easily potionable, and it will stack with an insight bonus, so you can combine it with Divine Insight. Two 2nd level potions = 600 GP.

Douglas
2009-02-21, 09:47 AM
Potions are single use, and he'll be repeating this every day. That can get expensive rather quickly. Also, personal range spells can't be made into potions.

monty
2009-02-21, 01:50 PM
Wouldn't a potion work just as well?

Potions are expensive. Probably not the best choice.


Instead of Divine Insight, use Guidance of the Avatar, from the WotC website:

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20010504a

+20 competence bonus to any skill check. This won't stack with other competence bonuses, such as exemplar or items like spellsight spectacles. But it's easily potionable, and it will stack with an insight bonus, so you can combine it with Divine Insight. Two 2nd level potions = 600 GP.

That seems really good. Too bad it's not arcane, or I'd grab an eternal wand of it, so I'll just have to talk the cleric into it.

Eldariel
2009-02-21, 02:00 PM
That seems really good. Too bad it's not arcane, or I'd grab an eternal wand of it, so I'll just have to talk the cleric into it.

Grab Eternal Wand of it and UMD it. As a Sorcerer, you'll have enough Cha to make cross-class UMD checks for Wands easily. As a bonus, UMD enables you to use Beads of Karma and all divine-specific items of interest.

monty
2009-02-21, 02:07 PM
Grab Eternal Wand of it and UMD it. As a Sorcerer, you'll have enough Cha to make cross-class UMD checks for Wands easily. As a bonus, UMD enables you to use Beads of Karma and all divine-specific items of interest.

Eternal wands are arcane-only. I suppose you could argue that a wizard with Spontaneous Divination could make it, but that seems like a bit of a stretch.

Eldariel
2009-02-21, 03:04 PM
Eternal wands are arcane-only. I suppose you could argue that a wizard with Spontaneous Divination could make it, but that seems like a bit of a stretch.

Meh, I suppose Limited Wish could be used to replicate the spell as arcane for the crafting purposes. But I suppose just Wands would work better that way. Rainbow Servants specifically cast their spells as divine spells. Eh, mayhap Arcane Disciple + that feat that allows modifying a domain would enable crafting one, so it's possible for it to exist.

ericgrau
2009-02-21, 09:29 PM
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/momentOfPrescience.htm
8th level spell. Gives you an insight bonus equal to your caster level (max +25) to a single skill check. That'll stack with the competence bonus given above. I think that's plenty enough to get a +57 mod already. Though I dunno why they'd make divine guidance a competence bonus. I mean, I kinda understand it conceptually but they're just asking for stacking abuse.

Greater heroism is a 6th level spell that gives you a +4 morale bonus to skill checks.

Feats to boost your skill check and magic items (especially prayer beads) to boost your caster level could add more, but I dunno if you want to pay so much for such a narrow focus.

monty
2009-02-22, 01:25 AM
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/momentOfPrescience.htm
8th level spell. Gives you an insight bonus equal to your caster level (max +25) to a single skill check.


...opposed ability or skill check...

Emphasis mine. Won't work.

wadledo
2009-02-22, 01:30 AM
Emphasis mine. Won't work.

Well technically, the universe would be opposed to that much cheese..........:smalltongue:

monty
2009-02-22, 06:34 PM
Looks like the easiest way will be to bug the cleric for Divine Insight and Guidance of the Avatar (or get them in wands, if I can talk the DM into it). Should give me more than enough, with minimal resource investment.

With 10 + 14 ranks + 6 Int + 3 Skill Focus + 20 competence, I only need CL 4 on the Divine Insight to hit my target, so the wand for that would be pretty cheap if I can get it.

Douglas
2009-02-22, 06:48 PM
Assuming Guidance of the Avatar is allowed (the WotC website appears to be the only source), Divine Insight would actually do the trick with caster level 1. The insight bonus is 5 + caster level, max 15 total. CL 1 gets +6.

If your DM allows GotA but not divine eternal wands usable by arcane casters, a CL 8 eternal wand of Improvisation should do just fine and costs the same as CL 4 Divine Insight. You could actually shave a little off the cost by dropping the caster level by 2 and getting an eternal wand of Focusing Chant.

monty
2009-02-22, 07:06 PM
Assuming Guidance of the Avatar is allowed (the WotC website appears to be the only source), Divine Insight would actually do the trick with caster level 1. The insight bonus is 5 + caster level, max 15 total. CL 1 gets +6.

That's what I get for not reading. So I can drop it to CL 3 (since it's a second level spell) for a 25%ish reduction in price.