I died when what I carried never knew life.[MitP]

[ilovefire]

Sometimes, a humanoid mother will have a miscarriage, due to some natural or supernatural accident or force. Many mothers greive at this, but eventually move on and try again. Some, however, find themselves unable to, and eventually die of sorrow. Those that do arise within the year as Madre Guastos. They seek nothing more than to absorb the life force of the still living, in an attempt, a vain attempt, to give life to the baby they once carried in their womb. They appear as medium-sized humanoids, though grey and gaunt, and appear to be in the advanced stages of a pregnancy. Their hair is always long, plantlike, and grey, and their eyes are a pure white color.

Madre Guasto
Medium Undead
Hit Dice: 10d12 HD (65 HP)
Initiative: +3
Armor Class: 18 (+3 Dex, +5 natural), Touch 13, Flatfooted 15
Base Attack/Grapple: +5/+9
Attack: Slam +7 melee (1d4+2)
Full Attack: 2 Slams +7/+2 melee (1d4+2)
Space/Reach: 5ft./5ft.
Special Attacks: Unbirthing, Touch of Despair, Cry of Sorrow
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 feet, undead traits, +4 turn resistance, Spell Like Abilities
Saves: Fortitude +3, Reflex +6, Will +12
Abilities: STR 15, DEX 16, CON -, INT 12, WIS 16, CHA 17
Skills: Climb +15, Jump +15, Hide +16, Move Silently +16, Spot +16
Feats: Improved Grapple (b), Ability Focus (Touch of Despair), Run, Blind Fight, Iron Will
Enviroment: Any
Organization: Solitary
CR: 8
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always Any Evil
Advancement: See Unbirthing Ability
LA: -

Touch of Despair (Su): Any living creature who comes into contact with the Madre Guasto, such as through the Madre Guasto’s slam attack, in any round they are in a Grapple with the Madre Guasto, an unarmed attack on the Madre Guasto, or an unprotected Touch Attack with the Madre Guasto, takes 1d3 Cha Damage, will save DC 20 negating

Unbirthing (Su): Any time a Madre Guasto reduces a medium sized or smaller opponent to 0 cha, they may take a full round action to unbirth the creature, shrinking it as through the Reduce Person spell three size categories, minimum of tiny, and shoving it into the Madre Guasto’s undead womb. For the next 1d4 turns, a Madre Guasto absorbs the opponent, and is unable to move, though they may still attack and use spell-like and supernatural abilities. At the end of this period, the unbirthed creature dies and the Madre Guasto gains one HD in undead, a feat the creature possessed that the Madre Guasto didn’t, and 4 skill ranks in any skill the creature had that the Madre Guasto did not have at full ranks. The Madre Guasto may only gain feats or skill ranks that the unbirthed creature itself had. A creature may be saved from this effect by inflicting at least 5 points of slashing damage to the Madre Guasto. A creature returns to their normal size 1d8 rounds after being freed.

Cry of Sorrow (Su) A Madre Guasto may, once every 1d4 rounds, produce a screeching cry as a standard action, causing all in a twenty foot burst to make a will save DC 18 or be shaken for one round. This is a Sonic mind-effecting fear effect.

Spell Like Abilities (Sp): At Will: Crushing Despair, 3/day: Mind Fog, 1/day: Feeblemind. Save DCs are Charisma-based.

Thoughts? Comments? Critique? Biting Sarcasm? I'm not sure what the CR should be, so... any help there?

[Lord Iames Osari]

Which ability are the saves for their SLAs based on?

[Brickwall]

...

Hey! Demented_One! Get over here! Someone's tryin' ta horn in on yer territory!

Anyway, unbirthing seems...more wrong than this should be. You might get a gamer who...umm...if you're old enough for me to be able to say this to you, you'll know what I'm talking about anyway.

Anyways, I coulda sworn Undead got at least Average BAB progression, whereas you have it at Poor.

[The Demented One]

No, ilovefire asked politely before making this. Now, let's get down to criticism, shall we?

Initiative is left blank, should be +3.
Attack line should go like "Slam +7 melee (1d4+2). Probably should have 2 slam attacks. Unbirthing shouldn't be listed in the full attack line.
Darkvision 60 ft. tends to be standard, rather than 120 ft.
There really ought to be away to free a creature in the process of being unbirthed. In addition, might wanna specify if it can only gain feats/skills that the unbirthed creature possessed.
Need to specify abilities for saves. Probably all Cha based.
Cry of Sorrow should be noted as being a mind-affecting fear effect, and probably also as a sonic effect.
Need to list DC's for spell-like abilities.
Need to list things in stat block like treasure, advancement, and alignment.
Don't let the criticism I'm giving you, however, disapoint you. I really like the concept and it seems well executed, with just a few areas in need of improvement. I'd personally put the DC at 8. Keep working on it, and, if you want to, please submit it to MitP.

[Lord Iames Osari]

I'd personally put the DC at 8.

You mean CR, right?

[Eighth_Seraph]

Also, it would help if some extra fluff or a physical description wass given. Because yes, forcefully shove something into a mother's womb? A womb? Think about the implications of the Madre's appearance for that to happen. Of course, it would be great if players were mature enough to handle that and appreciate it for its horror factor, but we all know that there's that one player with a low Intelligence...

Anyway, as soon as the technical issues are worked out, this thing will be a good monster in any horror campaign.

[ilovefire]

LItL: All are CHA based. This has now been clarified.

Brickwall: The SRD says undead get poor BAB, so...

D1: Yeah... I forgot alot of this. This is, howeve,r my first monster, so I was expecting for forget some things. all of those problems have now been fixed.

Eight_Seraph: I mentioned in the Unbirthing description that the creature was shrank... but it has now been clarified as to how much they were shrunken.

Any other thoughts on CR, by the way?

[The Demented One]

Yeah, I meant CR 8.

[ilovefire]

Allright... and now resubmitted as a MitP entry (one may hope.) I'll ask a few of my online gaming group's members to make a party for playtesting purposes, see how it works out at CR 8.

[Lord Iames Osari]

MitP Vote: Yes.

[StickMan]

Morbid but cool.

[fangthane]

I have the solution to the potential Adult Content issue... Reverse C section.

She grabs the creature as it shrinks, stuffing it into the garish C-section wound in her belly. 'R' for violence, perhaps, but not naughty. :)

Also it should be 1d4 rounds - turns implies that if there are 5 combatants, the longest she takes is a round (since the other combatants get their 'turn' each round too)

Rather than Run I suspect I'd give her WF: Slam; I'm not sure what I'd use to replace Iron Will but I'm not sure it's necessarily a good fit for someone whose weak will caused her to pine away and die in the first place. Certainly it's not necessary for most undead, at any rate. Is turn resistance a feat too these days, or can it only be applied as a feature?

[Abd al-Azrad]

It's a cool monster, but I am actually a bit worried about putting all these abortion monsters into the MitP. I mean, yes, we're self-publishing, but should we not adhere to some ratings policy to avoid any major problems with something like, say, getting sued when our book becomes a major hit and some little girl buys it, then her Fundamentalist parents read it?

[The Vorpal Tribble]

I don't think Fundamentalist would have anything to do with it. I doubt most parents period would care to have their 'little girl' reading about abortion horrors. Then again, little kids really shouldn't be looking into monster manuals ::)


(And yes, enough with the rampant Womb Beasts)

[Eighth_Seraph]

So all it took to stop this rampaging beast remind you people of the potential loss of money ethical consequences? If I had thought of it, maybe the wombmother wouldn't have been brought into existence.

[The Demented One]

It's a cool monster, but I am actually a bit worried about putting all these abortion monsters into the MitP. I mean, yes, we're self-publishing, but should we not adhere to some ratings policy to avoid any major problems with something like, say, getting sued when our book becomes a major hit and some little girl buys it, then her Fundamentalist parents read it?
As far as I know, we've got a lot of creepy birth-related monsters--miscarriage monsters, placenta monsters, umbilical cord monsters--but no actual abortion monsters. Anyone, on what grounds could they sue us?

[Abd al-Azrad]

As far as I know, we've got a lot of creepy birth-related monsters--miscarriage monsters, placenta monsters, umbilical cord monsters--but no actual abortion monsters. Anyone, on what grounds could they sue us?

I'll clarify. I'm not actually worried about being sued. I'm just wary about putting such monsters into the book- all of them seem to be in somewhat poor taste. And although I can see them objectively as very creepy and disgusting (exactly the sort of horror their creators were going for), I'm also kind of personally turned off to the idea of filling a book with multiple monsters related to the concept of failed births.

And I was just using that suing example to try to hide my feelings behind a ludicrous extreme. There. So now you know, it's not a legal problem, it's mine. :P

[Leperflesh]

I agree with some of the concerns here.

Some of the D20 publications are more adult-oriented, and have warnings to that effect on their covers.

I'm not personally offended at all by this sort of material (in fact, I'm inclined to use it... with my adult group) but I do think that, if we are going to use more adult-oriented material, that decision needs to be made formally. E.g., the MitP group needs to decide explicitly whether our book is for general consumption, or is of a more adult nature.

-Lep

[Jackstu_the_yummy]

Very creative Ilike it! ;D but iwas wondering if you could use vile darkness and add the fiendish template?