How many "sides" are there in this conflict, anyway?

[Trebuchet]

In strip 548 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0548.html), Redcloak asked this rhetorical question, and the demon roaches indicated there were at least nine. "Shh! They don't know about some of those yet!"

Have we now seen all the sides? Do we have a canonical list so far? I propose these:

1. The Order of the Stick, plus Celia but minus Belkar
2. Belkar and Mr. Scruffy
3. Redcloak and the goblin and hobgoblin forces
4. Xykon
5. The Linear Guild
6. The IFCC
7. Azure City and the Twelve Gods
8. The Demon Roaches
9. The Flumphs

[Charles Phipps]

In Planescape, there was a traditional conflict between the forces of Evil.

The Blood War was fought between the Lawful and Chaotic Evil Demons.

The Neutral Evil side were mercenaries for/against both.

So that's who they probably represent.

(Don't ask me why the Blood War wasn't fought between Good and Evil. Angels were just sorta...there...in Planescape)

[Legendary]

Erm, no, those aren't all nine sides. The Flumphs are only there tangentially, as are the Roaches, they have nothing to do with the struggle over the gates. In much the same way, the Order, Belkar, and Azure City are all fighting to KEEP the Gates, and thus count on the same side.

Another problem is that none of these players have been introduced AFTER #548. The IPCC, for example, have been around for awhile, even if they lacked a title.

Thus, I can count off at least this many:

1. The Heroes, all fighting to keep the Gates intact
2. Xykon and the undead, for Xykon's own ultimate power.
3. Redcloak and the gobbos, for the purpose of helping the fodder races.
4. Nale and the Linear Guild, mostly to thwart the PCs, if I remember.
5. The IPCC, probably to kill the Gods.
6. ?
7. ?
8. ?
9. ?

It's possible, if the Giant intends to go with what he said in one of the books, that Miko will come back and represent another side. Perhaps the Dragon will get involved as another side. Maybe those assassins from the Inn will be bought off by another group to do battle. Maybe Hilgya's gonna come back in a bad mood. I'm betting you a LOT that Lord Tyrinar/Nale's dad/the army of either will be part of the conflict.

Still, unless I've forgotten something, we only know of five players with mutually exclusive plans for the gates.

[Istari]

I think the order and Azure City are separate enough to warrant their own sides so we have 6 with a prediction for 7

[Cestrian]

I don't know. Its too early to tell right now but it's possible that Hinjo and Azure City will end having different enough goals to the Order to be called a new side in the same way that Xykon and Redcloak are allied but have seperate goals.

But yeah, so far we can only really call the 5 sides you named.

My guess would be that the dragons will end up as one though. The Oracle has been involved a lot and we know he has at least some close allies in those lizardmen healers and their boss. And the Black dragon attacking V said the Oracle was gifted to her people. I think we're going to find out that the dragons, kobalds and lizardmen, or at least some of them, are all working together in some kind of reptilian alliance (much like the Dark One managed with the goblinoids) and they'll end up as one of the sides.

Which admitedly is a little out there but, given that a new dragon character has entered the picture, that would be my guess.

[Dalenthas]

Lord Kubota. He might be dead now, but he wasn't when the comment was made.

[Saint Nil]

At least nine. There sould be more, whcih could be a problem for this. In the end, the Giant can change it however he likes.

[Cestrian]

I don't think Kubota counts because he's had no impact whatsoever on the war for the gates. He never even knew they existed.

I'm also willing to bet that there will be exactly nine sides if only because there's no point in throwing in a comment like that otherwise. It's basic good storytelling to not promise anything you're not going to deliver. You might as well predict that the Oracle's prophecies will be ignored.

[Innis Cabal]

More then we know probably. Its probably only half way through the story.

[[TS] Shadow]

I came up with this first! Yay!

Seriously though, there is a possiblity of MORE than 9 sides to the conflict. "I count AT LEAST nine." There could be 20 for all we know. However, I'll give you all my prediction for the "sides."

1: Varrsuvius/Qarr
2: The Remaining Order Members
3: Xykon
4: Redcloak w/hobgoblin army
5: Hinjo/Lien
6: MitD/O-Chul
7: Linear Guild
8: Thieves Guild
9: IFCC

[Lupy]

Actually, the conflict the roaches were referring to was the never ending battle for television market supremecy:

Samsung
LG
Vizio
Panasonic
Phillips
RCA
Sharp
Hitachi
Mitsubishi

In the OOTS conflict though, we have:

Oots
Azure City
Xykon and the Undead
Redcloak and the Gobbos
IIPC
Lord Tyrinar (sp?)
The Linear Guild
Banjo
Slapstick

The war between the last two will eventually result in:
The destruction of the universe. But when Banjo wins, Elan's dying soul will be happy.

[[TS] Shadow]

Actually, the conflict the roaches were referring too was the never ending battle for television market supremecy:

Samsung
LG
Vizio
Panasonic
Phillips
RCA
Sharp
Hitachi
Mitsubishi

Ahh...nice to see some eplileptic trees every now and again.

[puppyavenger]

what exactly is the IFCC?

[[TS] Shadow]

what exactly is the IFCC?

They are the three fiends that showed up in the latest strip.

[magic9mushroom]

Definite sides that we know of, ie things which have shown up more than once:

The OotS
The LG
Team Evil (Redcloak considers Xykon an ally, so the demon roaches would lump them)
The demons/devils (obviously this could count for up to 3 sides)
The Snarl itself
The Oracle + chromatic dragons

Those are all the main players that have shown up.

[whitelaughter]

"9 sides" is probably a nod to the 9 D&D alignments, and the idea that there are more sides an indication that alignmnt isn't everything.

If not, consider that some 'sides' can have been removed from play - Miko comes to mind.

[Trebuchet]

"9 sides" is probably a nod to the 9 D&D alignments, and the idea that there are more sides an indication that alignmnt isn't everything.

If not, consider that some 'sides' can have been removed from play - Miko comes to mind.

I, too, wondered if it referred to the 9 alignments, but as Roy and Miko showed, one alignment doesn't really mean one side. So I think it must be interested parties with some influence on the outcome.

As Legendary pointed out, we probably haven't seen them all yet, but I proposed 9 figuring the list could expand or some of them could be replaced when we know who they are.

I don't see any reason to assume all of the "sides" will survive to the end. If one side gets killed off or otherwise removed from the running, that doesn't mean they weren't a side to begin with.

[Lamech]

Don't forget it was nine when the roaches called it not nine at this point in the strip.

I would have to say kubota, Redcloak/goblins, Xykon and friends*, the azure city, the order, the linear guild, and the IFCC. So were just missing two sides...


*Tsukiko, MitD, zombies ect.

[Malanthyus]

Does that include the remaining members of the group of heroes that created the gates in the first place?

[Zevox]

"9 sides" is probably a nod to the 9 D&D alignments, and the idea that there are more sides an indication that alignmnt isn't everything.

If not, consider that some 'sides' can have been removed from play - Miko comes to mind.
That makes no sense within the context of the comment. Redcloak was referring to the various sides within the comic's main plotline - and his comment was introduced by warning his Hobgoblin ally that Xykon is not necessarily on their side even though they work with him - and the roaches said that we don't even know about some of them yet. They were quite clearly referring to groups that are a part of the OotS storyline with distinct interests and goals, not to the alignments.

Anyway, my guess:

1) The Order of the Stick. (& Celia, mostly.)
2) Xykon, Tsukiko, and their undead. (Tentatively also MitD.)
3) Redcloak, the Hobgoblins, and their undead.
4) The Linear Guild.
5) The Azure City Refugees/rebels. (Includes Hinjo, Lien, O-Chul, & other remaining Sapphire Guard members.)
6) The IFCC.
7) Lord Tyrinnar & his dominion/allies (yet to be introduced fully).
8) ?
9) ?

Possible others:
- The Order of the Scribble: Two of their members are unaccounted for, both potentially still alive. Could just fall under the same heading as the Order of the Stick, though, since they have basically the same goals.
- Kubota & other traitorous Azure City Nobles: Kinda minor overall, especially since Kubota is dead now.
- The Thieves' Guild: Again, pretty minor. It seems likely that once Haley & co leave Greysky, we'll never see them again.
- The angry Black Dragon mom: Seems really minor, especially if V blows her away after forming a pact with the IFCC.
- Miko: Formerly, anyway. Though she did die before the roaches made their comment.
- The Dwarves of Durkon's home: From descriptions it sounds like they may reside near the final Gate, and thus may come up in the future.


Don't forget it was nine when the roaches called it not nine at this point in the strip.
No, it was at least nine when they mentioned it. Possibly more. We simply have nine as a bare minimum.

Zevox

[Raging Gene Ray]

Am I the only one who thinks nine was just a random number, and it was just the roaches making a "breaking the fourth wall by saying we've read ahead in the script" joke?

[Morgan Wick]

I think a pretty good case can be made for separating the OOTS and the Azure City group; there was a lot of tension between the two (excepting Shojo) until the latest strips. I suspect there may yet be more disagreements over methodology if not goals to come.

[Cestrian]

Am I the only one who thinks nine was just a random number, and it was just the roaches making a "breaking the fourth wall by saying we've read ahead in the script" joke?

No, some other people have suggested it too. But I remain skeptical of that idea until someone can explain to me why the joke would be funny if it was just a random number.

I mean I get why it's funny if there does turn out to be nine sides and Rich was delibirately mocking us about the fact that he knows more about the story then we do. Especially since, like the various prophecies it's something he can do point to and go "see I told you I was going to do this and I still took you by surprise, ha ha". But that joke relies on Rich, and therefore the roaches, knowing things we don't.

I honestly can't see why it would be remotely funny if it was inaccurate information.

[Dixieboy]

The Blood War was fought between the Lawful and Chaotic Evil Demons.

The Neutral Evil side were mercenaries for/against both.

They have also been seen as not participating in the bloodwar and keeps it going for their own personal amusement and believes they can stop it whenever they please :smallamused:

[Mr. Pin]

My money is on some of the sides not having been revealed yet, but I think the ones we do know are:

1. The Order of the Stick (including Belkar, Mr. Scruffy, and probably Celia)

2. Redcloak's revolution

3. Xykon and friends

4. the free world (including Azure City)

5. The linear guild

6. Evil (including, but not limited too, the IFCC)

I posit that Good will soon be making an appearance, with Archons, Angels, etc.

[Raging Gene Ray]

I honestly can't see why it would be remotely funny if it was inaccurate information.

And I can't honestly see why it would be any less funny if it weren't. By itself, it implies that everything, for all the emotion and epic grandeur has just been scripted and everyone is just an actor willingly playing a part, which is a classic "take that, fourth wall!" joke. That's why it would be funny if it was twelve or eight or any other number.

And if it is inaccurate? That's even funnier! A ruse to surprise everyone when the tenth side is revealed, or to argue about whether or not X constitutes as a side when there are only six or seven?

No, just Rich causing ripples with some overly concerned forumites.

[bluedolphin359]

And I can't honestly see why it would be any less funny if it weren't. By itself, it implies that everything, for all the emotion and epic grandeur has just been scripted and everyone is just an actor willingly playing a part, which is a classic "take that, fourth wall, joke!"

Didn't we already know this? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html)

[Serebii]

Hmm...
For one thing, the demon roaches said "Shhh, they don't know about some of those yet!", or something to that effect. I don't think that demon roaches can see the future, so we can basically discount any 'new' sides, like V/Qarr, for the nine they were talking about. Maybe not for the altogether total, though.
Just my two copper.:smalltongue:

:roach::roach:

[ericgrau]

Let's try to keep this to concrete sides of the conflict, not every last individual with a slight agenda. I think Legendary's list is a good start:



Thus, I can count off at least this many:

1. The Heroes, all fighting to keep the Gates intact
2. Xykon and the undead, for Xykon's own ultimate power.
3. Redcloak and the gobbos, for the purpose of helping the fodder races.
4. Nale and the Linear Guild, mostly to thwart the PCs, if I remember.
5. The IPCC, probably to kill the Gods.
6. ?
7. ?
8. ?
9. ?

For #5 I'll note that Sabine notified the IPCC of (paraphrased) "anything that might tip the cosmic battle between good and evil in our favor", specifically in regard to the gates. Nale & the Linear guild are also after the next gate now. So every side seems to be related to the gates. The gods might be #6, but we haven't seen much direct involvement in any conflict yet. Evil and Good might count, since Redcloak brought them up specifically. Or they might be melded into other sides and not count against the 9.