Mapmaking Request: Calling All Cartographers!

[Archpaladin Zousha]

A friend of mine and I are co-authoring a campaign setting, and we've decided that if we're going to make the campaign world more coherent, we need a map of the general area. The thing is, neither of us have any experience with Photoshop or the like, so we can't really make one ourselves.

If any of you have any experience in making campaign maps, would you please consider helping us? Thank you. :smallsmile:

[LoopyZebra]

I could help. Probably can't get anything to you for a couple of days because of class, though.

Whats the campaign setting like?

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Okay, this is gonna take a lot of explaining. Imagine, if you will, a massive, nation-sized hedge of thorns.

This is our world. The Vale of Thorns.

The Vale is completely covered in these thorns, except for the roseways, petal-covered roads that serve as the arteries between the Vale's major settlements, and the glades, open patches of land where both settlements and dungeons can be found. All settlements are in a glade of some sort, but not all glades contain settlements. Some hold abandoned structures, some have entrances to the Labyrinth and some have nothing but open land. The Thorns cover everything else.

The Thorns take up most of the space in the Vale. In most places they stand some thirty feet high, thick, dense hedges of razor sharp needles. Each and every one is a paragon, a perfect example of what a thorn hedge should be. Despite their wicked barbs, the Thorns are beautiful, and can captivate and ensnare an unprepared traveller. The emotion they inspire within others is their greatest danger; even if a victim is not torn to pieces by the Thorns he may lose his mind and become their slave, or be drawn into their midst and become unable to find his way home.

The Labyrinth used to be a massive city, the name of which has since been lost to history. Some time though, millenia ago, the city became buried, and the Thorns grew out of the ground covering it. Now, the Labyrinth is an undead-infested deathtrap. Some people try and use it to traverse the Vale, since most remaining entrances to the Labyrinth are located in glades or settlements, but most usually succumb to the seemingly limitless hordes of undead, and then join them.

As to the World Forest: you ever hear of the Mists of Ravenloft? Okay, the World Forest is a meeting place for the Mists. The Forest isn't technically a fixed place, it's a gateway to other times and places, a way to travel in time or get to entirely different worlds. Of course there's no way to properly control where and when you'll end up in: you go into the Forest and wander out into some other forest, but it's another age or another place, or both. The forest of Grimmendeep, located on the Vale's northern border, is our way into the Forest; every where else the Thorns border us in.

In pretty much the center of the Vale lies the Thornspire, a massive, snow-capped mountain, that is home to the dwarves who occupy the dual settlement of Tradegate on the slopes and The Delve inside the mountain itself. The Thornspire is also unique in that it has no entrances to the Labyrinth, unlike other underground locations in the Vale.

East of the Thornspire lies Firepoint, the largest city in the Vale. Virtually all the races of the Vale congregate here, in this city where it never stops raining. The city is a sprawling urban mix of architecture from all over the Vale, and perhaps some from outside of the Vale. It's dually ruled by its Duchess, Ekaterina Lursis, who is ostensibly the leader, and the mysterious assassin Miss Cutter, who runs the day-to-day affairs of the city. Firepoint is a hub of industry and trade as well. You can get almost anything there.

Further east of Firepoint lies the newly founded city of Narsopath. Built by the shadar-kai after they razed the eladrin city of Lunaer, the city is still under construction, but already bears an aura of tyranny and hatred. A few smaller shadar-kai settlements lie to the north of Narsopath. I have yet to name these settlements, but this is where the invading army that destroyed Lunaer and founded Narsopath came from.

West of the Thornspire lies the hidden city of Illaya’Fae, a dryad ruled city of fey. Most of the citizens are eladrin or elves.

South of the Thornspire lies Garndall, a former eladrin city-state, now the home of the halflings, who are protected by the dragonborn. Garndall is the Vale's center of agriculture, just as the Thornspire is the Vale's source of stone and metal.

Far to the north of Firepoint lies the Grimmendeep Forest, which feeds directly into the World Forest. Here lies the village of Heathfast, and far to the north of that, the elven city of Naissus, where lumber, leather and ivory come from. Beyond Naissus, Grimmendeep bleeds into the World Forest.

Somewhere to the west of Naissus, outside Grimmendeep, squats Ugluk, an ugly city inhabited by goblins, orcs, hobgoblins, minotaurs and the like. They are, for the most part, civilized, compared to their kin who roam the Vale like bandits or attach themselves to petty masters of evil. They trade with the other city-states, and are cordial in diplomacy, but no one trusts a monster from Ugluk anymore than one from anywhere else.

A number of smaller villages dot the glades between these major cities, Heathfast being one example, as well as others like Duncott and Wraithwater.

There are a few rivers in the Vale, one of them leading to the Midnight Sea, which leads to a separate world called the Void, where there is no sun, and it is always night.

Now, here's the Vale's history (nobody in the campaign's memory goes back this far:

Once upon a time, all that existed in creation was the World Forest and, in it's centre, the vast ancient city. At this stage the Shadowfell and the Feywild were seperate from the world; basically, everything was as is set out the DM's Guide, as regard to the planes. And the World Forest was just a normal forest. Very big, granted, as it covered the whole world apart from the ancient city, but nothing apart from trees.

Above the city hung a massive earthmote, plucked from the Elemental Chaos itself. But then the earthmote fell, and the world was torn apart. Bits of the city weren't even sunk, but sent off to crash into other worlds (like the one in the DM's Guide. All the ruins there: actually bits of the ancient city). The stuff that wasn't blasted out of the Vale was sunk below the surface and turned into the Labyrinth.

The collision also sent magic washing over everything - this earthmote was ****ing HUGE, the biggest ever. A wraith named Avock took a huge dose of it and became the master of dreams, the World Forest took another huge dose. and became the meeting point for dreams and the Mists. And the two planes closest connected to the Vale, the Shadowfell and the Feywild, where smashed together, creating the Thorns and the glades. Other bits of the magic went into Naissus and the Thornspire (the Thornspire is what's left of the earthmote after it landed), and still other bits following those chunks of the ancient city to other worlds.

So, right now we have the Shadowfell and the Feywild that are both connected to the Vale (as per the DM's Guide), but also are part of it. Theoretically speaking you could accidentally wander into one of these other planes just by taking a wrong turn on a roseway, though at the same time rituals designed to travel from plane to plane still work the same. The Astral Sea, Abyss, Hells and Elemental Chaos are all in their normal places because they weren't as connected to the Vale.

The World Forest/Forest of Dreams is actually a separate plane, just like the Astral Sea or whatever. It's just quite easy to get into, like heading north from Grimmendeep (obviously there are other ways in on different worlds, but we'll invent those when we need to). The only reason that no-one else is going into it is because only the vistani know about it, and they don't tell anyone else. The elves from Naissus might know about it too, but they're wiser than to go in themselves; they've know all too well that those who go in don't tend to come back out.

The vistani though, can navigate the Mists. If you manage to persuade them to serve as guides through the Mists, you can exit the World Forest when and where you want. But getting a vistani to guide you through the Mists is very difficult, and very expensive. It's the main advantage they have over all the other races and thus not a secret they part with readily.

The vistani refer to the World Forest as the Forest of Dreams, because, unknown to other people, the Forest is where dreams reside. It's a twilight place, pitch black but lit by endlessly burning lanterns hung from the trees here and there.

Only the dead dream: the thoughts of the souls of dead creatures float away to the Forest and congregate, and then float on to the sleeping living and are breathed in. When the sleeping living wake, the dreams leave their body and return to the Forest to await another sleeper. So, when you wander the Forest, you can bump into dreams, floating eerily through the Mists that coat the ground.

Somewhere within the Forest is the cottage of Avock, the master of dreams. Avock has existed for aeons, even back when the gods were at war with the primordials. Of course he wasn't the being of power he is now, but he absorbed most of the raw energy that was washed over the Vale when that earthmote hit the place.

A couple of worlds we already have in mind is the one in the DM's Guide, and the one that leads on to the jetty on the Midnight Sea, which we can cross to get to the Void (that place where it's always night-time).

And that's pretty much everything we have at the moment. Enough info?

[LoopyZebra]

Cool setting.

About how big is the world/continent/area that is being mapped?

Is the entire area surrounded by Thorns, aside from the forest to the north? Or is there a strip of coast of the Midnight Sea or a river leading outwards?

Is there a particular style/feel you would like the map to have?

[Alyss]

Hey, I'm the other side of this creative process. And thank you for your compliment!:smallsmile:

The literal area we'd like mapped is the Vale of Thorns, the pocket of briars and glades in the centre of the World Forest. Exactly how large is the Vale? Not sure. Big enough to fit all those settlements in, plus a little more to allow for stuff we think of later to be slotted in. I'm pretty bad with sizes, details, etc... I would imagine it to be kind of big...there's the settlements, and I imagine there's a fair bit of space in between them. So...unless Zousha can give you an estimate of miles squared, I'd say just use your discretion.

Yes, the entire Vale is bordered by the Thorns (as well as full of them, obviously) apart from the spot in the north where Grimmendeep bleeds into the World Forest. The river Zousha mentioned winds down from the north and by Ugluk, and then makes its way past all the major settlements: Naissus, Ilaya'Fae, The Thornspire, Firepoint, Narsopath, and Garndall, in that order, before heading into the World Forest just past the last of the farming settlements that are nearby Garndall. See, the other world that encompasses the Midnight Sea and the Void is a separate plane; you can't follow the river that goes from the Vale to the Midnight Sea, because if you go into World Forest the Mists can take you anywhere. But you can tell it's the same river because if you drop something into the river it'll come out in the Midnight Sea.

Style or feel? Dunno...the Vale is all about the beauty of nature, but at the same time its ferocity, its horror, and its barbarism. So if you can get that into a map...yeah, that'd be great.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Also, this is a place where both the Feywild and the Shadowfell blend with the world, so something that reflects that dual nature would be nice as well. Not necessary, but nice.

[LoopyZebra]

I'm having trouble getting what's in my head down on the page; I'll try again tomorrow. I can get something plain easily, but I'm imagining something more artistic for the setting.

I had some thoughts while I was working on it, though:

The river is awfully serpentine. Since rivers flow where the land is lowest, it implies that there is no particular slope in the Vale of Thorns and that it is largely flat. Additionally, it implies that the Thornspire rises abruptly out of the ground, which makes sense given it's origin.

The amount of specialization of good-producing regions, such as the Delve for metals and stones, Garndall for food, etc. seems odd, especially given the fact that each region is it's own mini-state. I think, realistically, the various regions might look into other natural resources in their lands, or alternative resources (such as thorns for weapons/firewood as opposed to iron or lumber), so that they aren't completely reliant on trade with their neighbors. This is especially true given the difficulty of navigating through the Vale, which would discourage trade.

Also, the races of the setting do not necessarily match up with the feel of the setting. Assuming that the races are relatively typical, Dragonborn, halflings, dwarves, and orcs and other monstrous humanoids don't seem to fit the setting. "The Vale is all about the beauty of nature, but at the same time its ferocity, its horror, and its barbarism" and those races, assuming that they are typical, do not convey that. Cities of fey, vampires, elves, eladrin, humans, and possibly gnomes and shadar-kai might evoke the theme better.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

The Thorns aren't exactly good material for firewood. They are resistant to cutting, are very difficult to burn, and if you so much as THINK about harming them, the malign intelligence that governs them WILL punish you. The big thing about the Vale is that the region is so saturated with magics from both the Shadowfell and the Feywild that the laws of physics are replaced by the laws of magic. The reason the Thornspire is the sole source of metal ore and stone is because the magics of the Elemental Chaos, which is where the earthmote it was made of came from, cause the mined ore and stone to mysteriously regenerate. It's the same reason why Naissus is the sole source of lumber. Its proximity to the World Forest causes unnaturally swift tree growth.

Also, most Fey in the Vale are not civilized. There's this thing called "The Curse", which effects most of the fey, twisting their minds to the evil will of the Thorns or driving them insane. Only an isolated number of fey have thrown off The Curse, and they founded the cities that are now Illya'fae, Narsopath and Firepoint. Actually, the river would be the main artery of trade in the Vale, since it's relatively the only constant, and touches each city. And even if the river isn't navigable, there is always roseways that connect the major cities. Even if they aren't the same roseways you used last month, they still reliably run between the major cities.

Vampires, along with any other undead, mostly live in the Labyrinth beneath the Vale. The idea is that the Thorns are a naturally hostile environment, and only through cooperation with each other can the settlements hope to survive. That's why Narsopath is so dangerous. The destruction of the eladrin city of Lunaer, upon which Narsopath is now being built, was the event that kicked off our campaign. Eladrin and shadar-kai HATE each other in this setting. Firepoint used to be the shadar-kai city of Narcica, before the eladrin of Lunaer razed it and scattered its survivors, who have banded together and destroyed Lunaer in revenge. Now the cities are in a cold war.

Does that help?

[Alyss]

The Thorns aren't exactly good material for firewood. They are resistant to cutting, are very difficult to burn, and if you so much as THINK about harming them, the malign intelligence that governs them WILL punish you.
I've yet to stat them, but, as a broad rule of thumb, epic level characters would be able to cut through the Thorns and make their own paths. Here's some more detail on them:

The Thorns
The Thorns take up most of the space in the Vale. In most places they stand some thirty feet high, thick, dense hedges of razor sharp needles. Each and every one is a paragon, a perfect example of what a thorn hedge should be. Despite their wicked barbs, the Thorns are beautiful, and can captivate and ensnare an unprepared traveller. The emotion they inspire within others is their greatest danger; even if a victim is not torn to pieces by the Thorns he may lose his mind and become their slave, or be drawn into their midst and become unable to find his way home.

Travel through the Thorns falls into three categories: travel by rose-way, travel by path, and travelling blind.

1. Travel by rose-way: Travel by rose-way refers to journeys that take a person along one of the Vale’s many safe walks, the rose-ways. Strewn with blood red rose petals, these trails offer safe passage through the Thorns. Travellers are normally immune to the lures of the Thorns while on a rose-way, though during the summer and winter Equinoxes the Thorns power extends even here.

While the rose-ways protect their travellers from the Thorns, they are far from safe. A myriad of evil creatures, from callous goblins to twisted dryads, prowl amongst the Thorns waiting for an opportune moment to prey upon mortals. Whenever someone leaves the safety of their settlement and traverses the Vale, they take their life in their hands.

2. Travel by path: Travel by path refers to journeys along a cleared section of the Thorns, but not along a rose-way. Here the Thorns can freely influence travellers, albeit not to the extent that they can when mortals travel blind. At this point the Thorns can only exert their power on travellers to walk off the path and amongst them proper, or to direct the monsters of the Vale to their location.

3. Travelling blind: Travelling blind refers to journeys through the Thorn that do not follow a path. A mortal might leave a path for any number of reasons; running from foes, chasing a quarry, or taking a shortcut. My far the most common reason however, is the lure of the Thorns themselves, who call to mortals when they travel by path. Once in the Thorns a creature is often killed within minutes, the deadly barbs biting hard into their flesh. In other cases the death is psychological, the creature becoming a puppet of the Thorns or simply stripped of mind and put into a vegetative state and left to rot. Memories are a favourite target of the Thorns; a mortal may suddenly find himself many miles from home, with no memory of how he arrived at his current location or how to get back.

As well as the danger the Thorns pose themselves, creatures travelling blind must fight for every step forwards. Without a path already in place, they must create one themselves, hacking through the dense hedges. The Thorns have been known to re-grow behind those who travel blind, leaving them lost or unable to move.


Only an isolated number of fey have thrown off The Curse, and they founded the cities that are now Illya'fae, Narsopath and Firepoint.
Naissus as well, the elf settlement.


Those few, smaller settlements are going to be essential as well, if only for realism's sake. I was thinking two shadar-kai places north of Narsopath, Niem and Nathek, and one to the south of Narsopath, Marlos'kaern. When Narcirca (now Firepoint) was razed by the eladrin, the shadar-kai refugees split into two groups: those who wanted revenge and those who thought that their war with the eladrin had done no good. The former went north and settled Niem and Nathek, and later went on to invade Lunaer and turn it into Narsopath. The latter went south and settled Marlos'kaern, a moderate settlement that seeks to co-operate with the rest of the Vale. The recent invasion of Lunaer is, obviously, a bad thing for them.

A number of small settlements near Garndall too, more halfling/dragonborn communities: First Glade, the first settlement to be founded by the halflings before they discovered that the soil and the river was better down the road and founded Garndell; Abbeyford, the location of the only above-ground ruin of the old city, placed right next to the river; and Wolf Beach, a town built next to the wetlands where the river leaves the Vale. Wolf Beach gets its name from the effect that these wetlands have on the local wildlife - the magically potent wetlands, a watering hole for every manner of beast, grants some animals that drink there sentience and speech. Although Wolf Beach was settled by halflings and dragonborn, the town is now so full of walking, talking animals that it is more their home than the settlers. Despite cordial relationships with the other farming communities nearby, Wolf Beach likes to place itself separate in matters of politics.

Finally, two small fey settlements near Illya'fae: Valden and En'nayalway. The latter of these was in fact recently swallowed by the Thorns (the Thorn Heralds are to blame, I think, Zousha), but most of the population managed to get out in time and moved to Valden and Illya'fae. The sudden influx of citizens has utterly choked both settlements.

I think that should do.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

That does make things more efficient, but trade is still the lifesblood of the Vale, am I right? Without the influx of metal and stone from the Thornspire, lumber and leather from Naissus and food from Garndell, all the cities in the Vale would end up becoming abandoned.

[Alyss]

Yes indeed. No-one has a monopoly on enough resources to get by without trading. Firepoint doesn't even have any resources at all, though they manufactured a lot of things (the more complex machinery seen in the Vale like printing presses and clockwork firearms is made in Firepoint) and have a major influence on the politics due to a) The Razor Guild and b) the fact that it's a meeting point for several major roseways.

[Dallas-Dakota]

What are the locations of the ruins of Abbeyford and Lunaer?


Interested.

[Alyss]

Lunaer was invaded by the shadar-kai and renamed Narsopath. It's due west east of Firepoint.

Abbeyford is one of the small halfling/dragonborn settlements near Garndall, which is due south of Firepoint.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I don't know the exact location of Abbeyford, but Lunaer's "ruins" are located due east of Firepoint. I say "ruins" because the invading shadar-kai left nothing in their wake, and because they are currently building the city of Narsopath on the location.

EDIT: Ninja'd by my co-author!:smalltongue:

[LoopyZebra]

So is Narsopath east or west of Firepoint? You two gave conflicting answers in your most recent posts.

[Alyss]

Apologies, got my directions muddled. It's east of Firepoint.

[Alyss]

So I guess this thread died... I got hold of CC3 myself and tried to get something workable for the Vale. And here's what I got:

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/420/thevaleofthorns2.jpg

Rough and plain as it is, I like it. It's nice and simple.

[LoopyZebra]

Sorry I haven't posted anything yet, I've been really busy with class. The classes seem to be trying to all squeeze out an assignment or test before Spring Break. I'm still working on this, unless you don't want me to.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

If you still want to work on it, be my guest. I'd love to see what you can do with the Vale, especially now that there's a visual example to help guide it. Thank you. :smallsmile:

[Alyss]

Indeed, we'd still love to have someone who isn't a **** artist.

[Dallas-Dakota]

I vaguely remembered this request in class today.
In which, naturally, I'm bored in, so I thought, why not. Should have been working but decided to do this. I think I've got around half of the map drawn. I'l draw the other half tomorrow then and try and see if I can get it scanned.

But as I look at the sketch and remember the settings and such, I remember that I got some stuff wrong. Thats what I get for drawing from memory.
Aaand I tried to experiment/write with different fronts to see which looked best. >,>

Aaand drawn, scanning now.
Blegh, scanner isn't working, I'l do it tonight when there's a person in the house who actually knows how they work. >,>

[Dallas-Dakota]

Aaand scanned! (turns out I had been using the wrong program...)


http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o135/legolas-maxx/ZoushaOmenohumapValeofThorns.jpg


I tried to darken the lines but the silly program wouldn't work. I'm afraid that some of the quality in the form of rivers and rosepaths have been lost while scanning.

You can also see that I started on the left and thought it was a island....
And that I thought that The Wolf was a forest.....

Hope its good enough, otherwise I may try to darken the lines a bit and you still have LoopyZebra.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I'll show this to Alyss. Thanks Dallas_Dakota!

[Dallas-Dakota]

Soooo, what'd Alyss say?

*curious*

And just call me DD or Dallas, much shorter then typing it out whole. And I may be changing my forum name, to something including DD...