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Crow
2009-02-22, 08:36 PM
By my reading, it looks like the prohibition on combination classes in gestalt is only a suggestion. How common is it for DM's to allow such classes to be a part of a gestalt combination? Also, with the power that gestalt characters wield, does it really matter?

Keld Denar
2009-02-22, 08:58 PM
Something I've seen common is the requirement to take combination classes on both sides of a gestalt. So a character would look like:

Cleric1//Wizard1
Cleric2//Wizard2
Cleric3//Wizard3
Mystic Theurge1
Mystic Theurge2
etc

This is useful because some combination classes grant features that a normal character wouldn't get. Examples of this would be Ruby Knight Vindicator and Jade Phoenix Mage and Eldrich Disciple and Ultimate Magus. Sometimes its those abilities you are after, rather than just the basic abilities of each class.

All in all, as long as the player isn't running duel advancement classes on both sides to simultaneously advance a single class faster than it could normally progress, then it should be pretty balanced. For example:

Cleric3/Wizard3/MysticTheurge10//Sorcerer6/UltimateMagus10

or such using both UM and MT to advance Wizard casting resulting being effectively a 23rd level wizard by level 16, or whatever. That would be dumb.

Flickerdart
2009-02-22, 09:45 PM
Keeping the multi-progression class on one side is also a fair enough solution. Wizard 3//Cleric 3/MT is broken, but Wizard 3/Beguiler 3/Ultimate Magus//Sorcerer 3/Cleric 3//Mystic Theurge is normal. I guess even Wizard 3/Cleric 3/MT//Warblade 20 would work fine.

Crow
2009-02-22, 10:12 PM
Well I was taking a look at a Rogue3/Ranger17 // Wizard5/Arc.Trickster/ArchMg in another thread, and somebody mentioned the dreaded combination class restriction...and they were right.

This seems reasonable, but it seems like the restriction is more for the Dual-Caster classes like Theurge or U. Magus, more than for something like, say Eldritch Knight, which is a pretty weak class.

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-02-22, 10:30 PM
The times I have seen it waived is when the 'other side' does you no good.

For example:

Pal2/Crusader x//Sorc4/Abjurant Champion5/...

Abjurant Champion is technically a duo-realm PrC, it promotes both BAB and full Casting. However, the full BAB is irrelevant in this example because Crusader is a full BAB class anyways. So basically, you are getting the AbChamp bonuses to Abjuration spells, which is probably pretty balanced.

Now, if he were to go

Pal2/Swordsage x//Sorc4/AbChamp5

Then I would have a problem, because Swordsage is only a 3/4 BAB class, thus you are gaining more BAB from the class as well as full spellcasting progression, making this an unfair advantage.

Likewise:

Pal4/Cloistered Cleric//Sorc//AbChamp

would be even worse, because Cloistered Cleric is a 1/2 BAB class, just like Sorcerer... so you aren't loosing any BAB, but you are gaining Cleric spells, an extra domain, and more...

Also, remember that one does not benefit from similar progressions.

Thus, this would be almost pointless:

Rogue//Wiz/Arcane Trickster


Class features that two classes share (such as uncanny dodge) accrue at the rate of the faster class
Since both Rogue and Arcane Trickster have the class feature Sneak Attack, and both accrue at a rate of +1d6/2lvl, you don't get any extra Sneak Attack in this manner. The only thing you would get, in fact, is the Ranged Legerdemain and the Impromptu Sneak Attack. As a GM, I would allow this, after clarifying that you don't get to add the SA from AT and Rogue.