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fireinthedust
2009-02-23, 09:51 PM
I'm looking for advice on using Genasi in general, but especially making a wizard. I don't need anyone to do my homework for me (thanks, though), but rather, ideas on what works and what doesn't.

Also thoughts on a Wizard/Elemental Tempest build; other paragon paths that might do for them would also be welcome. I was thinking a mix of control and blast mage abilities, but I'm leaning towards Orb mage rather than blowing things up. (he's mostly firesoul, so he *reacts* when hit, but otherwise tries to alter the landscape intelligently)

Admittedly, it's for a M&M character I've been playing, but converting him into a 4e character (hypothetical, but not without precedent in comics); the superhero version changes between chemical forms: chemistry powers, including transforming himself and transforming inorganic compounds. Not a frontline guy, per se, I try to play him as useful for other PCs (ie: controller) and impulsive when hurt.

The question I have is: are they (genasi wizards in general) worth it? I mean, the Str bonus doesn't do much for a wizard or for their racial powers. Con would be a better stat, as they'd get the HP and the Fort defence bonus, and it would boost their racial powers, which is one of the reasons to take them (other than story).

However, they have an Int bonus; and the assortment of powers could be very useful in tactical combat (dual manifestation, air and watersoul, for shifting and flight).

NPCMook
2009-02-23, 10:28 PM
Dual Tempest wouldn't really help you for the most part except "Hey look guys I'm 2 elements at one time" earlier in the game. Not to mention most of its powers are Str/Dex/Con based, so you'd be wasting your paragon path. There's a feat at Epic that lets you do the same thing the only problem is you gotta wait till you are Epic. Personally my favorite Paragon path for wizard is the Planeseeker(the Wizard PP from MotP) nothing like sending an enemy on a brief trip through the Elemental Chaos.

Sure the bonus the STR is a downside compared to the other races(I don't think there's a Int and Wis races yet) So you basically make STR your dump stat and put 16/18 into Int, and make Wis at least a 13, while spending the rest of your stats elsewhere for gaining certain feats. Picking up Extra Manifestation and Fast Manifestation till Epic so once a day you and easily just swap between your 2+ elements

fireinthedust
2009-02-23, 10:44 PM
what do you think of Blast mage or Control for a genasi?

I don't know that it matters, as neither Dex nor Wis are bumped by Genasi. However, Int is already for Reflex while Wis is for will, so no point being a blast mage (ie: use points to better effect overall).

So Int, then Wis, then Con for stats (defences, hp, powers, Orb).

The rest of the part will theoretically include: goliath barbarian or fighter; shifter ranger; human warlord/artificer; unsure for the last guy (winged warrior with claws; not yet in 4e! Maybe Dragonborn?). Lots of damage output, leaving me for utility stuff...

Planeseeker: yeah, good stuff. Portals whenever you want? nice! Though the hp drain is hard for last minute escapes: use it and hope the party pays to raise you!

NPCMook
2009-02-23, 11:06 PM
what do you think of Blast mage or Control for a genasi?

]I don't know that it matters, as neither Dex nor Wis are bumped by Genasi. However, Int is already for Reflex while Wis is for will, so no point being a blast mage (ie: use points to better effect overall).

So Int, then Wis, then Con for stats (defences, hp, powers, Orb).

The rest of the part will theoretically include: goliath barbarian or fighter; shifter ranger; human warlord/artificer; unsure for the last guy (winged warrior with claws; not yet in 4e! Maybe Dragonborn?). Lots of damage output, leaving me for utility stuff...

Planeseeker: yeah, good stuff. Portals whenever you want? nice! Though the hp drain is hard for last minute escapes: use it and hope the party pays to raise you!When I originally played a Wizard(doing Swordmage now) I a mixture of both.

Well putting wis at least at 13 gives you access to Expanded Spellbook, which is always awesome to have that extra choice, though most wizard powers don't really have bonuses other than usually Int mod or Wis Mod for a few extra bumps.

If you want to go that way, for Planeseeker the extra Con always help since for each point of Con you gain 1 more HP and for every 2 points you gain another healing surge. Depending on how you set up your stats, you can still do a bit of damage as a wizard, in fact having 13 Str, or 13 Dex can gain you a use of Hunter's Quarry, so that +2 the Str can have its uses, but I think upping your Dex at creation will help you out more in the long run.

Yes, no Winged races... yet

Planeseeker that ability isn't really the awesome part, its the Movement Mastery(the level 16 feature you get, I think that's what its called) that is awesome. Also you are the Wizard so you aren't the one who will be burning up his surges that much except maybe after battle.

EDIT: If you take Warrior of the Wild, you also gain training of a skill from the Ranger list, so you can also gain training in Perception, which is always a plus to that

Kurald Galain
2009-02-24, 05:00 AM
Also thoughts on a Wizard/Elemental Tempest build; other paragon paths that might do for them would also be welcome.
From the PHB, I can always recommend Blood Mage (which leans towards blow upness) and Spellstorm Mage (which leans towards power reuse).



The question I have is: are they (genasi wizards in general) worth it?
Yes, because of their int bonus and racial ability. Although not quite as good as the Eladrin's teleport, the watersoul's shift is an excellent positioning ability, and the earthsoul's knockdown is nice for control. Firesoul is less useful for a wizard, since you probably won't be in melee range.

Str bonus doesn't do anything for you.


(I don't think there's a Int and Wis races yet)
Deva, from PHB2, next month.


what do you think of Blast mage or Control for a genasi?
In my opinion, control mages are more fun to play. If you want to blast, play a striker. But no, you don't need dexterity. You can pick either orb or staff, the latter is still a flat +1 AC even if you don't have much of a con bonus. Orb, otoh, does require a solid investment in wisdom.

So how do you control? Easy: pick the powers with the lowest damage and the widest area. Then have fun dazing, proning and slowing everything in the encounter, often simultaneously.

See the guide in my sig for some other wizardly suggestions.


(winged warrior with claws; not yet in 4e! Maybe Dragonborn?)
4E will not ever include a winged race, because permanent flight is considered an extremely powerful ability that's not available until epic levels.



Well putting wis at least at 13 gives you access to Expanded Spellbook,
Don't take exp spellbook, It's A Trap.


EDIT: If you take Warrior of the Wild, you also gain training of a skill from the Ranger list, so you can also gain training in Perception, which is always a plus to that
There's no real need to invest in perception unless you're party member with the highest wisdom. Also, hunter's quarry doesn't really help a wizard.

NPCMook
2009-02-24, 06:04 AM
If the Wizard is looking to put out a little more damage than yes it actually does help. The only problem is you get one use of it per encounter once you quarry is dead you no longer get to deal your extra bit of damage.

Now I'm not saying lolnoyourewrong! because it does have a draw back since no you can't just sit in the back and blast the Boss of the fight, unless of course he just happens to be the closest target to you when you declare your quarry.

When I played a Wizard I didn't take Expanded Spellbook, but my friend who also plays a wizard loves it since it gives him that extra option for that day's choice, also Expanded Spellbook isn't bad if you happen to come across a Mnemonic Staff. Truthfully I usually find my self dipping back into Heroic/Paragon Tier Feats once I hit Epic, but this may change once we get Arcane Power in two months. Of course, if you feel you may have gimped yourself with a feat there is always retraining:smallamused:

Kurald Galain
2009-02-24, 07:14 AM
Truthfully I usually find my self dipping back into Heroic/Paragon Tier Feats once I hit Epic, but this may change once we get Arcane Power in two months.

Hm, interesting. I find there are very few heroic feats worth taking for several of my characters, wizard included.

Leather armor, Jack of all trades (mostly for flavor), one MC feat, imp init (or quickdraw), and that's pretty much it. And some racial feats, of course.

NPCMook
2009-02-24, 02:49 PM
Hm, interesting. I find there are very few heroic feats worth taking for several of my characters, wizard included.

Leather armor, Jack of all trades (mostly for flavor), one MC feat, imp init (or quickdraw), and that's pretty much it. And some racial feats, of course.

This is true, I usually only take about 3-4 Heroic feats, the rest are usually racial

fireinthedust
2009-02-24, 05:07 PM
I'm planning to go racial for most feats. Genasi resistances and other abilities are pretty sweet.

The Wizards boards suggest I go for Shield, Hide armor, Scale mail. While it is interesting, I don't see this character as going to the front and pounding people (though his super form does as a matter of course; but that's supers; even then, he was vulnerable to one-shot-knockouts especially from energy blasts, so I don't know).

However, the STR bonus of Genasi does factor into the racial abilities. My only problem with STR over CON is that I get hp and healing surges from CON as well as FORT; while STR means I have to get close to people to whack them, and it's otherwise useful for armor and shield feats, and I'd have a lower CON at the same time.

Any thoughts on that?

Kurald Galain
2009-02-24, 05:23 PM
The Wizards boards suggest I go for Shield, Hide armor, Scale mail.
In my opinion, not worth the feats. If defense bothers you, grab the Shield spell and a staff of defense.


he was vulnerable to one-shot-knockouts especially from energy blasts, so I don't know).
One-shot knockouts don't really exist in 4E, because everybody has too much hit points compared to the damage done by a hit.



However, the STR bonus of Genasi does factor into the racial abilities. My only problem with STR over CON is that I get hp and healing surges from CON as well as FORT; while STR means I have to get close to people to whack them, and it's otherwise useful for armor and shield feats, and I'd have a lower CON at the same time.
You can actually ignore both strength and con, assuming you have a leader in the party (to double the efficacy of your healing surges) and a defender (to be the frontline). There are feats and regions to give you more hit points.

That said, if you want a choice of either, pick con: strength is utterly useless except for two feats that boost your AC by one each, whereas con gives you hit points, surges, endurance skill, and boosts your AC through the staff of defense, and you have feats left over to buy something useful with.