The Minx
2009-02-24, 01:14 PM
This is an idea I had to make the Reflex save make more sense (in a Simulationist sense). I'm not sure whether it is playable or balanced, so PEACH, and please let's have suggestions if you think there are better ways of doing it. :smallsmile:
The problem is the fact that the Reflex save (and the associated Evasion and Improved Evasion) is terribly unrealistic. Specifically, the problems are as follows:
A Rogue (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0019.html) can completely avoid all damage from an explosion, cone or burst while being in its center and without any cover of any kind and without actually moving. I find it hard to suspend disbelief here. (Vin Diesel movies (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0119.html) are one thing, but come on.)
All this when the Dodge feat (only) reduces your chance of being hit by a thrown object by 5% - but this feat doesn't help your avoidance of AoE attacks at all. In fact, Reflex and Dodge seem to be wholly separate issues, which is odd.
An elephant has a higher reflex save than a cat on account of having more "levels" of "animal".
FIRST
OK, so we can solve the elephant and cat problem rather easily: Reflex saves are modified by the Size modifier to AC. Thus, small characters now have +1 to reflex saves on account of being nimbler and finding it easier to get behind cover (see below). Huge targets would have a -2 to Reflex saves, and Colossal ones a whopping -8.
SECOND
The next issue is the question of how the Evasion ability (and Improved Evasion) allows you to totally avoid all damage even if you are within the area of effect of a burst. My idea is that the character has preternaturally fast reflexes, instinctively avoiding area effect attacks. This would allow the character to take a single move action out of her own turn, provided that she passes the Reflex save. She may tumble and jump, etc. within this move. The move must move her as far as possible towards the edge of the area of effect in question. During her next turn, she may only take a standard action, and she counts as already having expended her move for that round. If she cannot reach the edge of the area of effect, too bad, she takes the damage as normal. If there is competition for space, the players must make a special initiative check to see who gets there first! :smallamused:
THIRD
Then there is the question of how anyone can take half damage when within an area of effect attack. This covers both normal characters who pass their saves and characters with Improved Evasion who fail their saves. The idea is basically that they gain two advantages.
Firstly if they are in hard cover, they may use this to reduce the damage by the amount normally associated with the miss chance. That is, if they are in hard cover and pass their save, they reduce the damage by 50%, since the cover absorbs some of it. If they fail, they don't have the reflexes to properly get behind the cover in time, at least not enough to avoid getting a face full of fire or whatever. "Hard" in this context refers to any solid obstacle which could withstand the damage from the area effect attack in question (so fog, smoke or suchlike does not count). If they are in the open, but within a 5 ft. step of such cover or concealment, they may expend their next round's movement allowance to get there. Competition may occur as above.
Secondly, they may voluntarily drop prone, and so minimize their surface area with respect to the attack. This diminishes the damage by 50%, as per the normal rules, but then they are prone at the start of their next turn. Note that these 50% stack with the percentage for cover if the DM rules that line of sight between the source of the AoE and both the top and bottom points of character's body given his prone position is now blocked. So, drop behind the battlements as someone throws a grenade, and your bacon may well be altogether saved, even if your name isn't Haley Starshine.
So to summarize points 2 and 3, Reflex isn't really what saves you from explosions per se, it's what enables you to utilize that which saves you: movement and cover.
FOURTH
The strange Dodge/Reflex dichotomy. To solve this, one half of a character's Dodge bonus to AC applies to Reflex saves too. The reason why this is only half, is that it is harder to dodge an explosion than a targeted attack (you have to move further to get away). <EDIT: snip redundancy>
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So, thoughts?
The problem is the fact that the Reflex save (and the associated Evasion and Improved Evasion) is terribly unrealistic. Specifically, the problems are as follows:
A Rogue (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0019.html) can completely avoid all damage from an explosion, cone or burst while being in its center and without any cover of any kind and without actually moving. I find it hard to suspend disbelief here. (Vin Diesel movies (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0119.html) are one thing, but come on.)
All this when the Dodge feat (only) reduces your chance of being hit by a thrown object by 5% - but this feat doesn't help your avoidance of AoE attacks at all. In fact, Reflex and Dodge seem to be wholly separate issues, which is odd.
An elephant has a higher reflex save than a cat on account of having more "levels" of "animal".
FIRST
OK, so we can solve the elephant and cat problem rather easily: Reflex saves are modified by the Size modifier to AC. Thus, small characters now have +1 to reflex saves on account of being nimbler and finding it easier to get behind cover (see below). Huge targets would have a -2 to Reflex saves, and Colossal ones a whopping -8.
SECOND
The next issue is the question of how the Evasion ability (and Improved Evasion) allows you to totally avoid all damage even if you are within the area of effect of a burst. My idea is that the character has preternaturally fast reflexes, instinctively avoiding area effect attacks. This would allow the character to take a single move action out of her own turn, provided that she passes the Reflex save. She may tumble and jump, etc. within this move. The move must move her as far as possible towards the edge of the area of effect in question. During her next turn, she may only take a standard action, and she counts as already having expended her move for that round. If she cannot reach the edge of the area of effect, too bad, she takes the damage as normal. If there is competition for space, the players must make a special initiative check to see who gets there first! :smallamused:
THIRD
Then there is the question of how anyone can take half damage when within an area of effect attack. This covers both normal characters who pass their saves and characters with Improved Evasion who fail their saves. The idea is basically that they gain two advantages.
Firstly if they are in hard cover, they may use this to reduce the damage by the amount normally associated with the miss chance. That is, if they are in hard cover and pass their save, they reduce the damage by 50%, since the cover absorbs some of it. If they fail, they don't have the reflexes to properly get behind the cover in time, at least not enough to avoid getting a face full of fire or whatever. "Hard" in this context refers to any solid obstacle which could withstand the damage from the area effect attack in question (so fog, smoke or suchlike does not count). If they are in the open, but within a 5 ft. step of such cover or concealment, they may expend their next round's movement allowance to get there. Competition may occur as above.
Secondly, they may voluntarily drop prone, and so minimize their surface area with respect to the attack. This diminishes the damage by 50%, as per the normal rules, but then they are prone at the start of their next turn. Note that these 50% stack with the percentage for cover if the DM rules that line of sight between the source of the AoE and both the top and bottom points of character's body given his prone position is now blocked. So, drop behind the battlements as someone throws a grenade, and your bacon may well be altogether saved, even if your name isn't Haley Starshine.
So to summarize points 2 and 3, Reflex isn't really what saves you from explosions per se, it's what enables you to utilize that which saves you: movement and cover.
FOURTH
The strange Dodge/Reflex dichotomy. To solve this, one half of a character's Dodge bonus to AC applies to Reflex saves too. The reason why this is only half, is that it is harder to dodge an explosion than a targeted attack (you have to move further to get away). <EDIT: snip redundancy>
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So, thoughts?