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krossbow
2009-02-25, 06:58 PM
Hey, was wondering what people's thoughts on this was?

In a campaign i've been running, the PC's have developed a taste for plundering cursed items.

They've been playing a interesting game of log rolling, carefully researching such items to find out which ones have side effects semi-controllable or worth the risk in order to reap the powers that some of them have.



However, i've started to worry that some of the cursed items aren't really seeming "cursed" so much as "mildly dusty and painted black". One of the old standbys were items that corrupted their wielder degrading their alignment. However, this has become old hat to them, and they didn't really seem too put off when they had to kill one of their characters that turned chaotic evil from an item.
Hell, they almost ended up killing themselves and everyone in a treasure caravan via a cursed item, and they simply thought it was the best random encounter in campaign.





Since the players have really seemed to enjoy the idea of playing with fire and the thrill of gambling with such items, i'm trying to find a fine balance between having them have useful powers and also being reasonably dangerous and "cursed".





How much negative abilities must an item have to qualify as cursed would you say?

Prometheus
2009-02-25, 07:04 PM
Give them a couple of items that may seem cursed, but can be put to good use if used intelligently. Than their experimentation will pay off.

Also give them a couple of items that are not only cursing, but irritatingly so. Give them boxing gloves that don't come off (penalty to everything with hands), a rod that generates a rain cloud that pours on the characters head all the time even in doors (exhaustion, no flames, encumberance, concentration), a dagger-sheaf which is really a construct-leech while causes Con loss until it is cut off (or it drains a predetermined amount, or a talking skull that constantly mock the first character that touches it. These items will be comical, but they will also remind the characters that sometimes cursed items are not to be meddled with.

arguskos
2009-02-25, 07:07 PM
What Prometheus said. However, if they continue to persist in using obviously cursed and dangerous items, then feel free to use some really truly diabolical ones. I can send you a few if you wish. Just PM me if you're interested.

Occasional Sage
2009-02-25, 07:14 PM
What Prometheus said. However, if they continue to persist in using obviously cursed and dangerous items, then feel free to use some really truly diabolical ones. I can send you a few if you wish. Just PM me if you're interested.

If there's a limit to how far their research can go, and the possibility of hiding some cursed effects, hilarity ensues.

arguskos
2009-02-25, 07:23 PM
If there's a limit to how far their research can go, and the possibility of hiding some cursed effects, hilarity ensues.
Indeed. I actually did this to some players once, and hit them with a beast of an item that reinforced the idea that sometimes, cursed items are shunned for a REASON. Of course, we all remember that as the "OMGGETITAWAYFROMME" session, and have a good laugh about it now. :smallcool:

trehek
2009-02-25, 07:35 PM
I suppose it depends on how much you like them playing with cursed items like this. If you don't like it you can hit them with something that's way over their head. If you like it, you can give them some less dangerous, barely cursed items along with the average ones.

To give them a challenge and a taste of the danger involved (big quest wink wink?) throw in some really nasty item, but make it somehow obvious that it is nasty. Give them a chance to try and keep it locked up somewhere safe while researching it properly to find out what they're dealing with. If they're not careful enough, punish them! If they do things well, let them get rid of it or use it as the sort of power they're always been looking for, but always keep some kind of cost/danger aspect present to stay in the feel. If they want it they must either be constantly vigilant or sacrifice something (or someone) for their power.

Jack_Simth
2009-02-25, 07:36 PM
A Monkey idol that grants a Wish.

Catch:
It doesn't grant you YOUR wish. It grants you the Wish of the previous Wisher. And it does the monkey-paw thing to them, vanishing after bestowing it's "boon", never to be seen again.

That is, you hand the thing to the most rules-lawyery person in the group, and he makes a fool-proof wish... and ends up as an extremely attractive female gnome, for whom every male within eyeshot must make a Will save to avoid hitting on ... because the last person who made a Wish on it was a female gnome who felt unattractive. Or whatever wish your twisted mind can dream up that someone, somewhere, might reasonably say.

Edit:
Mostly, though, Cursed items should have some semblance of a reason for their existence. Some will be deliberate traps (a Vaccuous Gramoire in a shelf of legitimate books, for instance), others will be security features - requirements designed so it only works for one person, punishment if anyone other than the intended picks it up, security features so that it can't be used by people not belonging to a particular organization, and so on. Some will be attempts at immortality; others, subtle "gifts" intended to bring ruin to the recipient (less common, usually politically motivated). How cursed they are is, of necessity, based on the reason the item was created.

A few examples:
A Cloak of Charisma that turns the wearer female. Why? It was a gift from a Wizard to his beloved wife. It's not intended for anyone else's use, and the Wizard was of the opinion that most thieves would be male. Utterly harmless to his wife, rather annoying for crooks.
A Sword that is +5 in the hands of a worshiper of [insert deity here], and gains the Backbiting property when in the hands of anyone who does not worship [insert deity here]. Why? It was crafted by the clergy of [insert deity here] for use in a holy war, and they knew some of them would fall into the hands of "the infidels". Sure, the war is six centuries over, but some of those weapons are still running around.
A ring of Deflection that happens to be a permanent Magic Jar. The Wizard who made it made it to avoid dying of old age, and can posses anyone near the ring (but usually avoids posessing the bearer, just to throw off the scent).

Nohwl
2009-02-25, 07:45 PM
that monkey idol one is awesome.

krossbow
2009-02-25, 07:48 PM
I'm just worried that the PC's are viewing cursed items as magical grab bags rather than truly threatening items. Hell, they stopped seeking out normal magical items based on the view that cursed items are "more powerful".



So far they've shrugged off the collateral damage of 12 NPCs murdered in a nightmare world by a demon they unleashed, one of the PC's going insane and having to be killed (thanks to an artifact weapon which needed to be fed souls daily), and one of the PC's eyes being turned pitch black.


What type of curses do you think would seem appropriate to use to try and instill a sense of forboding and caution in such a situation? (the alignments in the current situation are 1 chaotic neutral, 1 true neutral and 1 chaotic good, so appeals to law are wasted so far)





(edit: I think i'll use that monkey paw one next, that should do a fairly good job of crimping the chaotic neutral one's style)

Jack_Simth
2009-02-25, 07:58 PM
I'm just worried that the PC's are viewing cursed items as magical grab bags rather than truly threatening items. Hell, they stopped seeking out normal magical items based on the view that cursed items are "more powerful".



So far they've shrugged off the collateral damage of 12 NPCs murdered in a nightmare world by a demon they unleashed, one of the PC's going insane and having to be killed (thanks to an artifact weapon which needed to be fed souls daily), and one of the PC's eyes being turned pitch black.


What type of curses do you think would seem appropriate to use to try and instill a sense of forboding and caution in such a situation? (the alignments in the current situation are 1 chaotic neutral, 1 true neutral and 1 chaotic good, so appeals to law are wasted so far)

Oh. You're after the "trap" types, not the "drawback" types you've been using. You want requirements that make the items virtually useless (e.g., only works for female elves named "Alice"), immediate trap items (the sword that latches on and starts con-draining you), and the like.


(edit: I think i'll use that monkey paw one next, that should do a fairly good job of crimping the chaotic neutral one's style)
Cool.

Xuincherguixe
2009-02-25, 08:05 PM
If you want to scare them with cursed items...

Really what you should do is just build it up. Have lots of freakish occurrences.

Dogs suddenly barking at them, A bird dropping out of the sky in front of them dead, mirrors breaking when they look at them. Occasionally finding a severed arm in front of them. A strange symbol that keeps showing up. Have a lot of weirdness.

This should go on over several sessions, through several dungeons.

If you're a real jerk, the curse could be something in which they slowly vanish from existence, with no escape. But that'd be pretty lame.

Instead, until they break it, just something hideously nasty. Like their arms falling off.

lsfreak
2009-02-25, 08:47 PM
Well, if they're used to cursed items being somehow useful, make sure at least some aren't. Maybe not even useless, but downright dangerous. A ring that makes you auto-fail on any saves (a "present" to a noble to allow someone to easily control them), an armor suit that makes any attack against it a critical threat (an evil prankster cleric), that cloak that simply kills you outright when you put it on (a "trap" against thieves in a wizard's home). If this still doesn't get the result you're looking for, just stop including cursed items.

Raven777
2009-02-25, 09:11 PM
I suggest the use of the Head of Vecna (http://www.blindpanic.com/humor/vecna.htm).

TheThan
2009-02-25, 09:24 PM
Like someone else said, make some of them not useful or downright annoying or dangerous. They’ll get the idea that some things are just not to be tampered with.

Another idea is to simply make cursed items that are not worth the cost of keeping the items. For instance an item that attracts monsters.


In fact, here’s such an item for you to use.


Sir Barton the demon slayer’s training sword

This sword has a serrated blade. The guard is an eye, inlaid with a silver-colored material, with the blade through the pupil. Its grip is of a light wood with a pattern made of waves and triangles stained into it. The pommel is shaped like a a skull with a peridot in its mouth.

Whenever this sword is drawn it magically summons 1d6 demons, the type of demon is highly dependant on the character’s level. These demons automatically attacks the wearer, when slain they do not reward experience nor do they leave any gear, or loot behind.
This is a +5 sword.

Level 1–3 Dretch
Level 4-8 babau
Level 9-12 Bebilith
Level 13-15 Glabrezu
Level 16-18 Marilith
Level 19+ Balor

Tubercular Ox
2009-02-25, 09:26 PM
You have to understand their motivations. They sound rather covetous. Give them an item that takes that away:

An item that gives them all the effects of Vow of Poverty (or, tone it down)... but slowly perverts their soul so that they become charitable. They start giving away items and gold, volunteering for nigh hopeless quests, find themselves completely unable to lie or do anything but engage in honorable combat. Basically, it makes them lawful stupid. If they're still hanging onto it, start picking their Exalted feats for them as they gain in levels. Throw enough sacred Vows on them, that they are magically compelled to follow, and they'll buckle eventually.

It'll be fun to see if they decide to murder that character, too. Or if they try to shun him. But of course the ensorceled character would never abandon his friends, right?

As an aside, I am completely against the interpretation of LG as "Lawful Stupid," I feel there's a lot of leeway and subtlety in that alignment or any other alignment, but it has its use here.

MammonAzrael
2009-02-25, 09:26 PM
I suggest the use of the Head of Vecna (http://www.blindpanic.com/humor/vecna.htm).

QFT.

Also, what is the alignment of this party? It shouldn't have any lawful or good characters at this point. If they continue to mess with cursed items to the detriment of the NPCs around them, start sending celestial forces to kill them.

And then so they don't feel totally ganked, have their souls forged into a cursed item for future generations to stumble upon and avoid. :smalltongue:

As for other items...

Something that can cast teleport on command, but has a mishap rate of 90%.
An item that forcibly changes their alignment to Lawful Good and can't be removed (ala girdle of masculinity/femininity)
Something that lets them use a 2ed psionic Disintegrate style effect. can cast Disintegrate at will, and every time they do, they have a 30+% chance of targeting themselves (and they don't get a save).
Items with Egos.
A Bag of Devouring (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/cursedItems.htm#bagofDevouring) with a beefed up grapple check.

holywhippet
2009-02-25, 10:33 PM
My DM pulled out a nasty cursed item for one of his groups. It was D&D 3.0 and he gave them a ring which could cast augury an unlimited number of times. The catch is, the ring had an enchantment which would allow their current location to be discerned magically no matter what countermeasure they had in place. Identify in 3.0 only reveals the lowest level of enchantment which was the augury spell. Their enemy, a ghost sorceress, had arranged for them to have the ring in order to keep tabs on what they were doing (they were looking for ways to end her permanently).

A nasty item you could give the players is something that automatically casts create undead (or a greater varient) when it has been within a certain distance of a corpse for a certain amount of time. So if the players stay in a town, the local cemetary starts spitting out undead. The item would be semi-sentient, it wants to reach a temple of the god who made it so it keeps calling in undead which it can control.

Hawriel
2009-02-25, 10:40 PM
Your players are playing with fire. Burn them.

rampaging-poet
2009-02-25, 10:43 PM
If the idea is to scare them away from cursed items, you may wish to try the Bluffstone or (if you're comfortable with such things) the Sword of Dragon Laying +4, both of which can be found in this post by Nani? (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=11514532&postcount=89) on the Wizards boards. The thread it's in has some other nice cursed items, but most of them are mere annoyances.
The old 1001 1001 Threads thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-612671) linked to a couple of threads about cursed items, but it's been archived so you have to copy/paste the links instead of just clicking on them.

Also, though I don't know where any of them are, I do know that a number of threads asking for cursed items have come up on this board before. A careful search should cause a few to turn up.

As for the general question of how cursed such an item should be, it really depends on the reason for its creation. Items with a drawback or requirement shouldn't be all that bad, as they're likely safety features or defects. However, be as nasty as you can with deliberate traps. When one invests the time and energy required to create an item to corrupt or destroy anyone foolish enough to pick it up, one tends to ensure that it can do the job fairly well.

Ooh, random thought! An item that works just fine, but curses, polymorphs, or disintegrates anyone who tries to identify it! It's a little mean, but it works.

holywhippet
2009-02-25, 11:49 PM
Hmm, I can't remember if I saw it here or on the Kenzerco forums, but the idea was to have the players find a sword. When one of them picks up the sword and pulls it from the scabbard they will find their name engraved on it. That is the swords only power - to show the name of the person who drew it from the scabbard.

Ascension
2009-02-25, 11:59 PM
If what they want to do is to mess around with horrifically cursed items... I say let them. Build a whole campaign around it. Say that news of their exploits has spread and they've become legendary, even if falsely so, for their ability to seal dangerous magic items. Have nobles seek them out as damage control experts, sending them in to deal with the nastiest evil items in the land. Use their natural proclivities to make them heroes, whether they like it or not.

Tubercular Ox
2009-02-26, 12:03 AM
If what they want to do is to mess around with horrifically cursed items... I say let them. Build a whole campaign around it. Say that news of their exploits has spread and they've become legendary, even if falsely so, for their ability to seal dangerous magic items. Have nobles seek them out as damage control experts, sending them in to deal with the nastiest evil items in the land. Use their natural proclivities to make them heroes, whether they like it or not.

Genius. Much better than my idea.

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-02-26, 12:16 AM
The Loyal Sword
This sword was created as a punishment for unfaithful mercenaries of a nation some thousand years dead, but they still exist.

The only way to obtain a Loyal Sword is to either a) steal it, or b) pry it from the dead hands of it's former owner. It cannot be sold, traded, or given away.

The Loyal Sword is a -3 Greatsword of Fatigue and Glowing. This sword glows like a Lantern, and cannot be convinced to stop glowing. Any attempt to make a Charge, or otherwise run will result in Fatiguing the wielder, at no save. But the worst part of the sword is that you can never be rid of it.

You see, because the Mercenaries were unfaithful, the ruler who ordered them made decided to make a point of loyalty. So at any time after obtaining one of these blades that you attempt to draw any other weapon or item, the Loyal Sword is instead drawn. It doesn't matter if you dropped it into a black hole, or into an Umbral Blot, or into a gate to another dimension. It doesn't matter if you tried to give it away. It somehow lets merchants know that this sword is not for sale, and no merchant will willingly buy it. This is considered to be a Mind-Affecting ability that counters and supersedes any and all other mind-affecting abilities which might tempt the Merchant to buy it (including, but not limited to, Charm Person/Monster, Dominate Person/Monster, and Suggestion). This is considered to be an Epic Magic effect that cannot be suppressed by any means.

As an Epic Magic item, it very strongly radiates magic, and always glows brightly to make sure everyone knows that it is a magic blade. This has the side effect of negating any Cover or Concealment except Total. This also ruins any Displacement or Mirror Image effect, because the sword itself is not duplicated in the illusionary selves.

Also, as an Epic Magic Item, it will not go away. Dispel Magic won't work. Neither will Break Enchantment, Remove Curse. Not even Wish or Miracle will budge this stubborn blade in the slightest. Disjunction treats this item as an Artifact. The ONLY two ways to get this sword to leave is to either a) have it stolen from your person, or b) have it pried out of your cold, dead hands.

Occasional Sage
2009-02-26, 12:25 AM
Billions of years ago I was playing Shadowrun, and encountered a "cursed magic item" that had several people fighting over it despite its effects. Let me see if I can roughly translate it into D&D terms:


Marilar's Ring

When worn, this ring adds two to the wearer's caster level for all spells cast. It also adds three spell slots, which can be divided among any spell levels the wearer can cast and can be re-apportioned every dawn.

The ring is, however, hideously debilitating. Every day that it is worn, one point is removed from each of the caster's physical statistics. These lost points cannot be regained by any magical means; if the ring is willingly removed by the wearer they return at a rate of one point of each statistic, per week. If the ring is forcibly removed, the drain will continue for two additional weeks, followed by two more weeks of no effect, before the regaining begins.

Marilar's Ring is also addictive. The wearer is unable to see the negative effects of the ring; spells cast by the wearer to detect or confirm these drains, such as Detect Truth, will return false results if necessary to maintain the wearer's delusion.

Further, there is a DC 20 Will save made when the Ring is first put on; if it is failed, the wearer will not remove the Ring for any reason, and will view any attempt to take it as an attack on their person, to be met will lethal force. Merely trying to convince the wearer to part with the Ring, even for a short time, will be met with extreme suspicion and hostility (obviously, Sense Motive and the like will lie to the wearer to ensure this). The Will save is repeated daily, with a cumulative +5 to the DC, until a check is failed.

If the Ring is somehow parted from a person who has failed the Will save, they will do anything and everything in their power to recover it, including killing any individual who attempts to stop them.

Regaining half of each physical statistic ends the addiction effect and the compulsion to regain the Ring.


Obviously I'm roughing in the stats; beef it up as necessary, but make the drawbacks BAD. What you're looking for is a Ring of Ultimate Arcane Power, with the physical and mental side effects of serious drug addiction. Interparty fights, both verbal and physical, should ensue. Don't let them cheese their way out of it, this should be a grueling ordeal that a quick spell can't fix. One death from something like this would be getting off light.

krossbow
2009-02-26, 12:30 AM
Also, as an Epic Magic Item, it will not go away. Dispel Magic won't work. Neither will Break Enchantment, Remove Curse. Not even Wish or Miracle will budge this stubborn blade in the slightest. Disjunction treats this item as an Artifact. The ONLY two ways to get this sword to leave is to either a) have it stolen from your person, or b) have it pried out of your cold, dead hands.



Forgive me if i'm wrong, but wouldn't the PC's still be able to enter an anti-magic field (in most settings there are a few permanent ones sitting around usually) and just drop the blade? it shouldn't be able to utilize its magic to escape at that point.

Rockphed
2009-02-26, 12:34 AM
Forgive me if i'm wrong, but wouldn't the PC's still be able to enter an anti-magic field (in most settings there are a few permanent ones sitting around usually) and just drop the blade? it shouldn't be able to utilize its magic to escape at that point.

I beleive that the implication is that the sword enchants all of your stuff, so you would have to ditch it all to actually get rid of it in that fashion.

Lycanthromancer
2009-02-26, 01:02 AM
Gah. Stupid board delays/double posts.

This is the worst website I've ever visited for server overload.

Lycanthromancer
2009-02-26, 01:10 AM
I always did like the idea of a 'cursed item' that wasn't really cursed, but had practical applications. See the dust of sneezing and choking for details. However, this is likely the exact kind of thing your players want (not that there's anything wrong with it).

You could also have the 'curse' be that the item in question (a holy artifact, maybe the focus of an important struggle between the planar forces of good/evil/law/chaos) is the phylactery of some horrific partly incorporeal undead monstrosity. Say, some epic-level abomination. It's billed as the item's 'guardian,' which the players have the single-use macguffin to slay. However, on the way back...

Maybe have it cling to the 'chosen one,' such that he cannot be rid of it. He can run, he can hide, but the monstrosity will constantly be on the prowl for it. The sword is mildly powerful (maybe similar to an item familiar or ancestral relic, that drains XP from the wielder to power it), but it compels the wielder to seek out and destroy evil. The stronger the character, the stronger the evil that must be vanquished. And the higher level s/he gets, the more s/he is compelled to slay the creature that came from the sword. Of course, should someone kill the creature, guess where it's gonna return PDQ?

Perhaps the only way to kill the monster is to destroy the sword, and the only way to destroy the sword is something that would seriously put a cramp in the wielder's style - like dying while fighting the strongest Evil critter in all the planes.

Could make for an interesting rest-of-the-campaign, for sure.

dspeyer
2009-02-26, 01:28 AM
How about a weapon of create undead? Forged by a necromancer with enough rebuking power to yield it effectively, it raises any living creature it slays as a 'random' type of undead.

The first few times they use it, roll a die and give them a skeleton on odd and a zombie on even. Then, once they're complacent give them a multiply-evolved vampire who takes the weapon and becomes the new BBEG.

Dhavaer
2009-02-26, 01:30 AM
Forgive me if i'm wrong, but wouldn't the PC's still be able to enter an anti-magic field (in most settings there are a few permanent ones sitting around usually) and just drop the blade? it shouldn't be able to utilize its magic to escape at that point.

It's Epic. Epic magic isn't always affected by anti-magic.

krossbow
2009-02-26, 01:34 AM
It's Epic. Epic magic isn't always affected by anti-magic.



I think thats artifact items; while alot of cursed items can be artifacts, the text implied alot of these things were made; i assumed that they weren't artifacts since generally artifacts are once a lifetime items that sap insane amounts of resources.

Granted, it would simply need to be altered to be an item made specifically for a traitorous general or another suitably infamous individual rather than mercenaries. at that point it'd be much more plausible for it to be an artifact.

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-02-26, 01:41 AM
I think thats artifact items; while alot of cursed items can be artifacts, the text implied alot of these things were made; i assumed that they weren't artifacts since generally artifacts are once a lifetime items that sap insane amounts of resources.

Granted, it would simply need to be altered to be an item made specifically for a traitorous general or another suitably infamous individual rather than mercenaries. at that point it'd be much more plausible for it to be an artifact.

The problem is that a) AMFs are almost never permanent, b) It actually soul-links to the new owner, so that as long as the owner is not in an AMF, it'll automatically be pulled, and c) As a minor artifact (like the Deck of Many Things, there are multiples of it running around, but no one currently knows how to make it), it ignores AMF.

This CAN be a good thing, as it is still a magic sword, even if cursed. If you are facing something with DR/Magic in an AMF, you can still bypass that.

Lycanthromancer
2009-02-26, 01:43 AM
DR/Magic is a Su ability, so it'd be suppressed in an AMF anyways.

Draco Ignifer
2009-02-26, 01:48 AM
You might want to try using items that were poorly made or otherwise dysfunctional to break them of their belief that cursed items are better. E.g., in normal cases, a wand of fireball shoots, well, a fireball... a mis-crafted one might, for example, create a fireball centered on the user, with no save for them because they're in the epicenter. A ring of elemental command might have otherwise normal attributes until used to actually command or defend against an elemental, in which case the magic actually drives them berserk, making the ring powerless against them and giving them whatever suitable plusses you think are appropriate. A staff of healing might not drain charges, but instead life, using the reversed spell on the caster - if the save is made, it has no effect on the person they were trying to heal. Not, you know, hideously dangerous, but still something that will teach them a lesson - there's a reason why you go for the uncursed items.

Kyouhen
2009-02-26, 02:06 AM
Here's a thought that should mess with them. Throw them a magic sword. Maybe +5, but you could make it whatever you need to to get them to keep it. The sword does no damage to anyone struck by it, and instead appears to cast Cure Critical Wounds on anything struck by it. However, the sword can only restore X amount of health before it runs out of juice. At that point the sword will instead cast Inflict Critical Wounds until it's refilled itself. Give no indication of when the sword will heal or when it will hit. Make sure when you give it to the PCs the sword has enough power to heal until they figure out what it does.

Tubercular Ox
2009-02-26, 02:15 AM
Or, just give them a +5 sword. Or something magically powerful enough that they'll want to use it. Every divination, every legend, every source says that it is powerfully, powerfully cursed, and will bring great retribution on anyone who uses it.

Every once in a while when they're using it, say something odd. Like, "I'm sorry did you roll a sixteen? Hmm, and this is a dragon you're fighting." Write something down in a little notebook or something.

If you roll your dice behind a screen, every once in a while, when something bad happens to them, pull out the notebook, look something up, then announce what happened.

Every once in a great while, look something up, shake your head and say, "Okay, nevermind," and announce whatever average (or even good) result that just occurred. Or better yet, a bad result.

That's it. Don't do anything else.

krossbow
2009-02-26, 02:18 AM
Or, just give them a +5 sword. Or something magically powerful enough that they'll want to use it. Every divination, every legend, every source says that it is powerfully, powerfully cursed, and will bring great retribution on anyone who uses it.

Every once in a while when they're using it, say something odd. Like, "I'm sorry did you roll a sixteen? Hmm, and this is a dragon you're fighting." Write something down in a little notebook or something.

If you roll your dice behind a screen, every once in a while, when something bad happens to them, pull out the notebook, look something up, then announce what happened.

Every once in a great while, look something up, shake your head and say, "Okay, nevermind," and announce whatever average (or even good) result that just occurred. Or better yet, a bad result.

That's it. Don't do anything else.




Actually, that sounds like a rather great idea. that should drive them insane.

arguskos
2009-02-26, 02:19 AM
Or, just give them a +5 sword. Or something magically powerful enough that they'll want to use it. Every divination, every legend, every source says that it is powerfully, powerfully cursed, and will bring great retribution on anyone who uses it.

Every once in a while when they're using it, say something odd. Like, "I'm sorry did you roll a sixteen? Hmm, and this is a dragon you're fighting." Write something down in a little notebook or something.

If you roll your dice behind a screen, every once in a while, when something bad happens to them, pull out the notebook, look something up, then announce what happened.

Every once in a great while, look something up, shake your head and say, "Okay, nevermind," and announce whatever average (or even good) result that just occurred. Or better yet, a bad result.

That's it. Don't do anything else.
/thread. Go home everyone, Ox here won the thread. :smallbiggrin:

Tubercular Ox
2009-02-26, 08:14 AM
You might want to add random special effects, too.

"As you hand the innkeeper the money for the ale, the Swordy Sword of Doomy Doom vibrates slightly."

No more than one per session. And different every time.

EDIT: So I have this condition called racing thoughts. It keeps you awake and you can't stop thinking.

The sky really is the limit on this one. You can enlist the players to help you with this. Make it a Vicious, Vampiric Greatsword. They're rolling 5d6 for their damage and 1d6 feedback from vicious. Make them count the sixes on all the dice. If it's three or more, write it down. Otherwise, just move on. Or make it a shortsword, give it features that are good for your rogue... and see if he uses it to sneak attack. Be sure to count the sixes there too.

When no one's watching, number the points on the compass rose, and roll d8 about eight times, so you get something like n,e,sw,s,n,w,se,nw

Throw a monster that can disarm at them. Get that sword out of their hands! "As you go to pick up the sword, you see that it's pointing exactly north." If they're feeling clever and decide to run a test after the battle... keep feeding them the directions you've cooked up in advance. They're either going to give up after the third drop or they're gambling addicts and will keep going. If you run out of your list, say "It points straight at [character x]." Have it do that until the next session... when you've cooked up another list of random directions to preface with. See if you can convince them it has divining powers.

The key here is to be lawful evil. Everything has rules you have to follow. It's just they only know the inputs and never see the outputs.

I'm going to try to go to sleep again.

Ascension
2009-02-26, 01:10 PM
Actually, that sounds like a rather great idea. that should drive them insane.

If driving them insane is your goal, this will do it, but unless you're GMing Call of Cthulhu it shouldn't be your goal. That's why I'm suggesting you should let them quest after genuine forbidden power... just do so in a way that forces them to sacrifice it for the greater good. Let them make messes, just force them to clean up after themselves.

Tubercular Ox
2009-02-26, 03:31 PM
If driving them insane is your goal, this will do it, but unless you're GMing Call of Cthulhu it shouldn't be your goal. That's why I'm suggesting you should let them quest after genuine forbidden power... just do so in a way that forces them to sacrifice it for the greater good. Let them make messes, just force them to clean up after themselves.

I tend to agree. Running with it is always a good option for the DM.

Seffbasilisk
2009-02-26, 04:17 PM
A greataxe that casts Backbiter on itself whenever the weilder rolls a nat 20.

Muz
2009-02-26, 04:49 PM
Speaking of cursed items, how do you folks deal with identifying that they're cursed? To put it more specifically (and I'm from the 2nd edition days, so maybe 3.5 dealt with this more specifically), if a character finds a cursed item and casts Identify on it, does the ID spell ever reveal it to be cursed, or is the curse only apparent when it takes effect?

lsfreak
2009-02-26, 05:04 PM
Cursed items Identify as a related item (armor that gives -5AC seems to be +5, a helm that changes your alignment appears to be a helm of telepathy, etc). The curse only becomes apparent when it activates, and that's assuming you're paying enough attention to notice that something's amiss (of course, things like alignment changes or suddenly dropping dead are pretty obvious).

Ovaltine Patrol
2009-02-27, 12:11 AM
This talk of making use of cursed items reminds me of a 2.0 game I played in boarding school some ten years ago, in which our party's wizard started collecting copies of the Vacuous Grimoire to trap his library with.

Khanderas
2009-02-27, 03:24 AM
Cursed items are one of three kinds.

Spectacular failures in making a magic item.
Delliberate traps
Artifacts so darn powerful it gains drawbacks.

Your group apparantly think all cursed items are the items-so-good-it-has-drawbacks. They are not and let them find some stuff that are just... um... cursed.
I like the idea of cursed items though, as long as the benefit isnt that much greater then the drawback.

Fjolnir
2009-02-27, 04:59 AM
I once GM'd a game where I had a player who would routinely buy magic items for much less than cost by deliberatly cursing them so they would only function correctly under the most specific of conditions (you had to be a male half elf fighter with blue hair, etc, etc, etc) or else everything went horribly, horribly wrong for you. I made sure I got the lists of whatever he cursed them with, then laughed as he asked for the party wizard to cast "shrink" on him to get through a tight enclosure after the rogue had scouted it and said it was safe.
needless to say the resulting backlash from all his items deciding to malfunction because he no longer fit the exacting perameters of his curses killed him when he was violently dismembered by his own armor. needless to say, he never did this again

krossbow
2009-02-27, 07:05 AM
Cursed items are one of three kinds.

Spectacular failures in making a magic item.
Delliberate traps
Artifacts so darn powerful it gains drawbacks.

Your group apparantly think all cursed items are the items-so-good-it-has-drawbacks. They are not and let them find some stuff that are just... um... cursed.
I like the idea of cursed items though, as long as the benefit isnt that much greater then the drawback.



No, they've run into a lot of the #2 ones; they've just tried to research things in libraries and by visiting knowlegable characters 1st. I was trying to find curses that might phase them though, as they've weathered the deaths of PCs as well as innocent bystanders without too much worry.

Causing them to secondguess if they missed something all the time is a far worse fate than sucking one of them into the maw of a monster; at least then they knew where they were standing with the thing.

Jack_Simth
2009-02-27, 07:16 AM
Speaking of cursed items, how do you folks deal with identifying that they're cursed? To put it more specifically (and I'm from the 2nd edition days, so maybe 3.5 dealt with this more specifically), if a character finds a cursed item and casts Identify on it, does the ID spell ever reveal it to be cursed, or is the curse only apparent when it takes effect?

Identify: 1% per caster level chance of identifying the Curse.
Analyze Dweomer: Identifies curse, no roll required.

Khanderas
2009-02-27, 08:27 AM
No, they've run into a lot of the #2 ones; they've just tried to research things in libraries and by visiting knowlegable characters 1st. I was trying to find curses that might phase them though, as they've weathered the deaths of PCs as well as innocent bystanders without too much worry.

Causing them to secondguess if they missed something all the time is a far worse fate than sucking one of them into the maw of a monster; at least then they knew where they were standing with the thing.
So basically finding an item that "using this item will kill you and your friends. no save" -items...
They not only dont not use it, they try to find a way for it to work for their benefit and rather keep the cursed item then the same item, except not cursed ?

Cant help you there then, except leave less cursed items in the loot... They already got them all or some artificer is draining it for the creation of uncursed goods.

krossbow
2009-02-27, 09:05 AM
So basically finding an item that "using this item will kill you and your friends. no save" -items...





Well A TPK kind of defeats the purpose of the session. I'm not against their dabbling in cursed items. They've retooled their goals as adventurers to searching out such items, so i want to give them a good show of it.

I'm merely trying to find the best curses and balance of powers to keep an aura of danger about them.


I had them find sword yesterday with random wigglings and flashings. The bard is rather put off by only being able to find out its name "Krull'thraze, darkener of the skies" and nothing else about it, and keeps jumping everytime i mention it doing something. Not to mention the party having him walk 30 feet behind them as they traveled to the mages library in the wizards guild.

Khanderas
2009-02-27, 10:05 AM
Well A TPK kind of defeats the purpose of the session. I'm not against their dabbling in cursed items. They've retooled their goals as adventurers to searching out such items, so i want to give them a good show of it.

I'm merely trying to find the best curses and balance of powers to keep an aura of danger about them.


I had them find sword yesterday with random wigglings and flashings. The bard is rather put off by only being able to find out its name "Krull'thraze, darkener of the skies" and nothing else about it, and keeps jumping everytime i mention it doing something. Not to mention the party having him walk 30 feet behind them as they traveled to the mages library in the wizards guild.
Ahh. I thought you were tired of your players running around picking up cursed items and you wanted an in game reason for them to be more careful with this stuff.

Well in that case I dont have anything specific to add, just what the others said, leave some random hints of stuff happening. That sword mentioned seems to indicate to me you got that part down already.