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Larrin
2006-09-11, 08:43 PM
This is a thread to showcase three speperate ideas I’ve had for the Warlock. So consider them seperately, then consider them in all possible combinations with eachother. The first two are, in my opinion, reasonable, simple enough, and not likely to make a game changing difference, but rather a pleasant one so warlock users can go “Ahhhhh, that’s kinda of nice”. If you say “WOW THAT’S SO POWERFUL” I did something wrong. The third idea is sort of just a random one that struck me, one that plays on the assumptions that more variety in blast shapes and essences would really increase a warlocks power as much as simply giving him more total invocations. Its raw and unrefined and wanting some feed back. I think it’s a nice idea, and not overly complicated, but may still be not useable.


FIRST: a basic retool of the class in general, without dealing with invocations, many of these ideas have been said at some point by some one or another, so I don’t take credit for any one idea, I just hope I’m the first to put them together this way. The synopsis of the changes is below, a long wordy explanation about my feelings for the warlock in general follow in further posts, but you may find it boring. If it bores you skip it.

Warlock:
Lose: 2 skill points per level, Jump class skill, non-sense Eldritch Blast progression (after level 11…)

New: 4 skill points per level, tumble, hide, move silently, Knowledge:religion class skills, add fortitude to good saves (along with will), gain mettle at level 9, Eldritch blast damage progresses at the same rate as sneak attack (max 10d6 at lvl19).

SECOND: Eldritch shapes don’t really improve much as time goes on (aside from the chain they don’t improve at all) Its annoying when a spell doesn’t improve with age, so I came up with a method that takes three shapes and A) give the invoker access to them earlier B) has them improve and increase in effective spell level as more lists (least,greater,dark) are available. Below is a summary, a full (probably much needed) explanation is further down (there’ll be titles.

Modify Eldritch cone (15ft lesser, 30ft greater, 60ft dark), eldritch doom(10ft greater, 20fr dark), hideous blow(2nd attack for half damage, greater). Add eldritch falling to dark invocation list. Gain Eldritch Invocations known and Other Invocations known progressions.




THIRD: Lastly, I did a poll a while back asking how many essences and shapes vs other invocations people did. It seemed to me that most people felt that only 3 shapes/essences were worth taking, leaving 9 others they felt were better filled with regular invocations. I feel sorry for hellrime and brimestone blast (and the others) as people seem to feel that it really wasn’t in their best interest to use up a least invocation “slot” by taking them. And as far as I can tell, variety in eldritch blasts isn’t going to terribly increase the warlocks power. My suggestions is that eldritch shapes and essences are learned sperately from other invocations, so that learning new shapes and essences ISN’T at the expence of other invocations. This is more for thought provokingness then actual mechanics I want to see.

As always, here is the summary, more in-depth explanation later on.

EI = Eldritch Invocations known (shapes, essences, some feats perhaps) OI = other Invocations known.(ie others)
Lv. EI / OI
01. 0 / 1
02. 1 / 1
03. 1 / 1
04. 1 / 2
05. 2 / 2
06. 2 / 3
07. 2 / 3
08. 3 / 4
09. 3 / 4
10. 3 / 5
11. 4 / 5
12. 4 / 6
13. 4 / 6
14. 5 / 7
15. 5 / 7
16. 5 / 8
17. 6 / 8
18. 6 / 9
19. 6 / 9
20. 7 / 10

Larrin
2006-09-11, 08:49 PM
ONE:The Class
Warlock Thought out

The poor warlock has been getting its fair share of flack, while others have been offering fixes. I guess I’m one of those others. My approach is essentialy go through the creation of a class, namely the warlock, from the ground up and choose what I would think fits based on both the mechanics and flavor of a warlock. Of course I’ll also cheat and refer to abilities the warlock has and I haven’t discussed yet, sometimes its needed. A lot of it will just be me explaining why I think they got a certain point right, you can skip those if you want. Stuff in Bold is something new. If the section title is in Bold[/b], that means it contains a change, so if you’re board with my ramblings, just read those sections.

Concept: The main mechanics concept of a warlock is a spell caster with unlimited spells. This requires that their spells and spell progression is not too powerful. Flavor-wise they are spell casters who tap the powers of the lower planes either through heritage or pacts. This means that they should have a creepy dark feeling to their powers, and fiendlike abilities as their powers transform them. I will try and keep both of these ideas in mind when making my choices. In other words I’ll ask myself “What would creepy magic man do?” a lot.

The biggest result of the mechanics concept is that no one spell of his should out shine a wizards of similar level (even at level one, eldrtich blast has enough problems that magic missle can outshine it ) this means the damage progression should be slower then a wizards (less then 1d6/level) limits on range, and any summoning spells need to be limited. The flavor says that his spells should be about darkness, confusion, madness and destruction. Healing spells, light spells, happy-fun-fuzzy spells and spells that in general help others need not apply.

There are other concptes that work fo a warlock, it isn’t a big stretch to imagine a warlock with divine roots, Fey roots, draconic roots, elemental roots, undead roots or even psionic roots, but each of those would have to be considered individually and I think I’ll start with a base and

Alignment: Chaotic or Evil, allows you to be good, neutral, and lawful, chaotic and evil, just not all at the same time. As far as alignment restrictions go its pretty good, and Creepy Magic Man isn’t going to be LG or TN so that’s good.

Hit dice: He won’t have the toatal magic of a wizard, so a d4-compensation will be a death sentence. D8’s are for people who expect to get in combat, but aren’t up for the long haul (monks and rangers), or divine spellcasters who are expected to get stuck in the middle of things and get armour. Warlocks are not fighters, nor are they divine. D8’s are out (as is anything above that). So d6, it’s the realms of people who can mix it up in light armour and have something to offer other then a sword. That can work for our Warlock. So he’s a d6, no need to change that.

Attack: Our warlock has no buisiness having a full attack bonus, and half attack bonus is for pure arcane casters with no time to learn how to use a weapon. Three fourths its is.

Saves: He’s a spellcaster so will is a sure in. But could he have two? Bards, rangers, clerics, and druids all have two good saves. Monks have threes. The ones that have only one save tend to be the stright arcane casters, the straight brute fighters (d10 and up), and the straight skill monkey rogue. Warlocks won’t have the arcane power to simply be a straight anything, so I think they warrant anther good save. Thus the question is are the reflexive or fortidudanal. Warlocks seem like they should be tough, they get DR, energy resistances, healing. It seems to me that they are the sort to stand there and take it, not dive for cover. Thus I say they should get a good fortitude save. Thus the warlocks good saves are will and fortitude.

Armor and weapon proficiencies: As they have limited spell power, chances are they can’t rely on magic alone to protect themselvs, but they also should get too much armor, lest they forget their place. We’ll give them light armor, as well as no spell failure in it because that’s what we do when spellcasters need armor. They shouldn’t get martial weapons, but no need for other restirctions. Simple weapons it is.

Skill points: the classes with 2 skill points are clerics, fighters, paladins, sorc/wizards. Pretty much the straight fighter/spellcasters. I firmly believe the warlock does not fall under this category. 4 skill point classes are druids, barbarians and monks. These are also fairly straight classes, but they have an excuse that they should be a little more skilled, wether because they’re outdoorsy types (druid and barbarian) or trained in mind and body (monks). That’s closer to a warlock but I’m not 100% convinced yet. 6 skill points are for bards and rangers whoes jobs imply a high degree of skill in their respective areas. Warlocks don’t seem to fit that bill, so 6+ skill points is out. 4 skill points it is.

Skills: first off how many skills should they have. As far as other 4 skills per level classes go barabarians have about 8 class skill, druids 13ish, monks 18ish. I think a warlock will fall in between a monk and druid. I’ll shoot for 14-15 class skills. First off, he’s an arcane spell caster, so concentration, spellcraft, knowledge; arcana. Then theres the fact they have contact with fiends, that implies knowledge: the planes. (4 down, 10-11 to go). Now he’s fiendishly creepy. That implies that he should be able to creep people out as well as lie like a rug. Bluff and intimidate go on the list. It follows that anyone so good at bluffing should be able to smell a fellow rat, so sense motive goes on the list. We also like to fool people, diguise goes on (8 down, 6-7 left) Now almost everyone gets profession and craft, so we get profession and craft. Also Use magic device could be handy since we’re pretty magical, but have limits in selection. (also two nifty abilities focus on this skill) (11 down, 3 to 4 to go). So far, no we match up with what WoTC thought he should have. Then they have Jump. WHY! I did some checking. Every other class that gets jump also gets climb and swim. But not the warlock. Creepy magic man can’t climb a wall or swim in the river, but boy can he JUMP! No. Jumping, does not really fit the bill. But he gets an invocation that give +6 to jump, balance and tumble. Well he doesn’t have balance OR tumble, and since tumble is crossclass and trained only, that doesn’t do a bit of good to any. Hey I know, lets give him tumble. That way his “Leaps and Bounds” helps out a usefull skill for someone who may have to dance around a battle field, and he gets as much use out of jump as he normally would. So jump is out Tumble is in. Next, lets ask ourselves “Would a creepy magic guy benefit from the ability to sneak up on people quietly and scare the xp out of them?” Yes. Move silently and hide go on the list. (0-1 left)

Lets look over the rest or the possibilites. Diplomacy isn’t probably this guy’s style and by extension gather info might not be either (though its on the border), nor will he be good with animals, so ride and handle animal are out. We also don’t help people, so no healing. Can he appraise, he’s got the magic device thing covered, but how good is he really with paintings and rugs. Probably not very. What about spot/listen/search, the old observationals. Well, I dunno, he doesn’t seem like he’s necessarily to interested in that sort of thing, and all in all they’re common in classes that don’t pressingly need them and the warlock doesn’t pressingly need them. Next come the theify skills. Escape artist? Not really, as far as dex skills go, we gave him tumble, that might even be a stretch, but if he gets tied up, he’ll need to look for other ways out. The same goes for sleight of hand. Next are disable device and open lock. It would be handy, but really unjusitfied to give a warlock these skills, he’s more the type to hex a lock/trap out of the way. Forgery and decipher script? Decipher script could kinda fit with his “Pact with eldar beings” so it’s a maybe, but not enough of one to make it in the finals. Survival doesn’t even begin to make the list. Speak language is too rare to really consider. Use rope is for sailors and hangmen,not creepy magic men. That really just leaves the knowledges, of which only religion isn’t a laughable option. Often demons find their way into religion, he can summon undead (with the right invocation), know thy enemy and what-not. I guess if Monks can have knowledge arcana, warlocks can have Knowledge religion.
So to recap: the changes are Jump is off the list, Tumble, Move silently, hide and knowledge religion are on.

Class abilities: first off, I think that as they stand the warlock has a pretty tight class abilities list. It fits him pretty darn well. He’s got some fiendish toughness in him, so the DR, energy resistance, and fast healing work pretty well. Also, he’s kind of a deceptive spellcaster, his abilities to decieve magic devices and eventually make his own are pretty much at home. Detect magic at will is kind of od, but its sort of a “6th sense” for magic deal, I’ll buy it. One thing is missing though. He’s a tough-type demon minded spell caster, he should have some sort of resilience against magic. SR is too much, but Mettle, the ability to avoid some of the nasty side effects of will and fort based spells.(if you don’t know, mettle is similar to evasion it allows you to avoid all effects from an effect if you make a will or fort save, ie the 3d6 damage you would still take from a made save against finger of death), Plus I think that the hexblade (which is the only other core class I can think of that has mettle) has a similar feel to the warlock, they should share this ability. Hex blades get Mettle at level 2 or 3, I don’t think it should be that early for warlocks. Rangers get evasion at level 9 compared to rouges and monks that get it around level 2, so if warlocks get it later, I think level 9 is a great spot for it. So add mettle at level 9 for the warlock.

Eldritch Blast: Lots of peopl try to fix the warlock by giving the blast more damage. Adding a stat (charisma most often) isn’t enough, adding a stat per die is more powerful then any other class gets and is pretty unprecidented (Cha to damage is precidented a la Warmage edge). Adding a stat bonus every other dice level or some such is just mucking about with needless combinations. Its just not going to ever really work, I fear. Just stick to the staight d6’s. Another option is to have it increse on every odd level. This is what normally happens until level 13 when the “Eldritch blast 7d6” is mysteriously gone and rather finds itself in the 14th level and then every third level until you hit 9d6 at twenty. If you just go odd level straight through you end up with 10d6 at level 19. I don’t see why it suddenly does this weird progression, I mean sneak attack does it thise way. My only guess is that they felt that eldritch blast should match magic, which has nine levels. And at the same level a wizard gains a new level of spells, a warlock gains that many d6’s on his Eldritch Blast. So if he gets up to 10d6, its like he’s casting a 10th level spell. Not really, but I fear this is their line of thought. IT IS FLAWED. Eldritch blast should (or at least has no reason not to) progress at the same speed as sneak attack all the way up, capping out at 10d6 at level 19. This isn’t to fix the power, its just so it makes sense.

Larrin
2006-09-11, 08:53 PM
TWO: The Shapes


Eldritch shapes: There are 5 eldritch shapes. And they don’t really improve much with age (except for the chain). Eldritch spear is fine, it has long range, doesn’t need to be longer, good for the long haul. Hidesou blow is a problem. I read it and see “As a standard action make a melee attack...” it doesn’t say “as a stadard action that provokes an attack of oppurtunity” or “ as a standard action that DOESN’t provoke” . The FAQ’s fortunately (or perhaps unfortunately) clarify this by saying it most definitely does, Although they clarify it is NOT the attack that provokes the AoO but the “ability activating motion” (what ever that is). In the end I fear the AoO needs to be kept There are plenty of touch spells that provoke thses (inflict wounds) and they still see some use. Still, put some ranks in concentration and cast defensively, it will work. Another big complaint goes that it loses its bite in later levels since you just get the one attack. I propose this fix in the following manner. (bits missing are in case I’m treading on copyright violations)

Hideous blow: As a standard action that does provoke an attack of opurtunity make a melee attack that blah blah.
This is equivalent to a level 1 spell.
(new stuff->)Upon gaining access to Greater invocations the invoker may take a full round action to make two attacks (Base attack bonus permitting). The first attack adds the EB damage and effects to it, the second attack adds half damage, but full effects.
This is equivalent to a level 4 spell.

I felt that only half damage on the 2nd attack is a good way to keep a leash on it. Its more powerful, but you still have to be in melee comabat, you need a full attack action, and you’re victim to an AoO. So in the end, its better, but not howlingly better. This also highlights another addition, shapes getting better when better with levels.

Eldritch spear really has nowhere to go, anything more then 250ft is pretty rediculous.

Next comes the cone. Its nice but its just a 30ft one, with no ground for improvement. Wizards start with 15ft cones (buring hands) but by level 5 spells their up at the 60 ft range (cone of cold). So here’s my fix for a eldritch cone that improves with time. Notice it starts out at a lower level, but with less range.

Eldritch cone (LESSER invocation)
Blah blah cone, reflex for half.
15 ft range
This is equivalent to a level 3 spell.
After gaining greater invocations you may choose to extend the range to 30 ft
This is equivalent to a level 5 spell.
After gaining acces to Dark invocation you may extend the range to 60 ft (or 45ft if 60’s too much for you)
This is equivalent to a level 7 spell.

Eldritch chain is fine, I guess. It already improves with age so I have nothing to add to it.

Now eldritch doom is the most often misunderstood (or at least misrepresented) shape. Many people refer to it as the warlocks version of a fireball. It isn’t. Read it carefully. It’s a 20ft range like a fireball, it’s a circular burst like a fire ball, but 1) its centered on the caster and (here’s the BIGGY) 2)the caster CHOOSES its targets!! I read it about 10 times before I realized that. A bit better then a fire ball in some ways, no friendly fire (unless the warlock wants it…), but limited in range. So lets do to it what I did to the cone.

Eldritch doom (GREATER)
Blah blah, 10ft radius, centered on you blah blah
This is equivalent to a level 6 spell.
Upon unlocking dark invocations you may extend the radius to 20ft
This is equivalent to a level 8 spell.

But wait, now there are NO dark level shapes. Well, here’s a new one

Eldritch Falling (dark)
You cause a rain of stones formed of eldritch energy to fall down on a cylinder with a 20ft radius and 40 feet high for two rounds. The center of the cylinder must be withing 40 ft of you. All within the cylinder take damage equal to the Invokers eldritch blast damage, in the first round and half the intialy damage in the secound roung. They also take 2d6 bludgeoning damage from the rocks themselves. A reflex save negates the rocks and halves the eldritch damage, but must be made seperately for each round of the falling. Overlapping fallings do not stack for damage dealt per round.
This is equivalent to a level 8 spell.

Is it perfect? Probably not, but it’s a filler that’s good enough for now. basically is ice storm made eldritch. Not sure if i actually like it myself, but the idea struck and i needed a dark shape...

Larrin
2006-09-11, 08:56 PM
THIRD: The seperation of invocations

Seriously, there are a large number of shapes and essences that no one seems to even consider taking because there are just too few invocation “slots” to go around. Any shape/essence you take has to be worth it, so really I’ve only seen spear, cone, chain, vitrolic and beshadowing used in any real numbers, and usually only three out of twelve possible invocations known. It seems to me that more of the shapes/essences would get used if taking them didn’t decrease the other spells you could learn. So lets split them up.

Eldritch Invocations Known:Eldrtich invocations are eldritch Shapes, essences, and the feats ability focus[eldritch blast,etc], spell penetration, greater spell penetration (if prerequisites are met, I’d also like to add one or two more good feats here). Every time you gain a new Eldritch Invocations Known you choose to learn one of these. When a new list of Invocations becomes available my change one shape or essence learned earlier to another shape or essence. Feats may not be changes, nor shape or esssences changed into feats.

I’m leaving off spell like ability metamagics, they’re too tempting and over shadow the others, IMHO. You could add them in if you feel I’m being overly cautious. Its possible including feats here at all is a bad idea, in that case they can easily be removed, I just felt it might be nice for them to have a few bonus feats. Let me know.

Other invocations known: When you gain a new Other invocations learned, you may learn any other invocation on the list. Other wise the same rules apply. No feats are available here. You could consider allowing them to choose to take shapes and essences on this list as well because I feel that if anything taking too many essences is a trap, it doesn’t help you do that much more damage, and it limits you non-damage diversity that you kinda need, but I could leave it as an option. But no feats, one possible source is enough.

This is the best progression I’ve come up with. EI is the Eldritch Invocations know, OI is other Invocations known. You end up with more total invocations, but remember EI’s can also be a few feats, so I’d imagine there’d be about 2-3 feats, 5 essences/shapes, and 10 other invocations. Not all that far from normal, and not so much that it screams problems. Also, there aren’t so many “dry” levels where you really make no progress in spell casting at all.

Lv. EI / OI
01. 0 / 1
02. 1 / 1
03. 1 / 1
04. 1 / 2
05. 2 / 2
06. 2 / 3
07. 2 / 3
08. 3 / 4
09. 3 / 4
10. 3 / 5
11. 4 / 5
12. 4 / 6
13. 4 / 6
14. 5 / 7
15. 5 / 7
16. 5 / 8
17. 6 / 8
18. 6 / 9
19. 6 / 9
20. 7 / 10

OK. thats all i have for now, please let me know what you think of the three idea's i've presented. Not sure why i felt the need to type so much, but i had some time to kill, and the writing bug in my head.

Caelestion
2006-09-12, 07:21 PM
Hmm. Interesting ideas. I'm not sure if it makes them too powerful, but it would be nice to see a compiled New Warlock, just for the sake of a summary (also easier to critique).

Larrin
2006-09-13, 11:16 AM
Yeah, you're right, i kind of tried to do it, but i'm leaving tomorrow for a long trip and i wanted to get it up. i will see if i have time to do that.



HOWEVER!
check out the dragon fire adept
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060912a&page=2

it has...
4 skill points
good will and fort saves
a cone that goes from 15 ft to 30 feet
essences gained seperately from other invocations, all things that i have(aparently hidden) in my little rant here.

for the record i had no idea about what the dragon fire adept would look like. personally, it gives me hope warlocks might be getting some much needed bumping!!