[Creature] Dragons Below

[Zeal]

Sewer Serpent

Large Dragon (Aquatic)
Hit Dice: 3d12+3 (25 HP)
Initiative: +1
Speed: 30ft (6 squares) ,Swim 80 ft.
Armor Class: 16 (+1 Dex, +6 Natural, -1 size) touch 10, Flat-footed 15
Base Attack/Grapple: +3/+6
Attack: Bite +1 melee (1d10-1)
Full Attack: Bite +1 melee (1d10-1)
Space/Reach: 10ft/10ft
Special Attacks: Breath Weapon
Special Qualities: Dragon Traits, Damage Reduction 10/ magic, Flexible, Amphibious
Saves: Fort +4, Ref +4, Will +6
Abilities: Str 9, Dex 12, Con 13, Int 14, Wis 16, Cha 16
Skills: Swim +13, Hide +7, Sense Motive +9, Bluff +9, Move Silently +7, Escape Artist +7, Listen +9, Spot +9
Feats: Toughness, Ability Focus (Breath Weapon)
Environment: Sewers or Aquatic Tunnels
Organization: Solitary or Pair
Challenge Rating: 3
Treasure: Double Coins, Standard Items, Standard Goods
Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
Advancement: 4-6 HD (Huge)
Level Adjustment: --

An elongated snake-like creature, the Sewer Serpent is distantly related to the Black Dragon. The Sewer Serpent’s horns are little more than dull nubs and its wings and fore-limbs have become short, blunt-clawed flippers. The Sewer Serpent has no back legs and instead has a long eel-like tail. The Sewer Serpent, is about nine feet long and four feet high, but can squeeze through openings half their size.

Sewer Serpents, as their names suggest, live in sewers or flooded tunnels.

Sewer Serpents speak Draconic.

Combat

Sewer Serpents refrain from attacking prey and intruders directly; instead, they lure their victims away deeper in their territory with their spell-like abilities. Using the pipes and other small passageways, Sewer Serpents, when they judge their prey to be significantly confused, will emerge from hiding and attack quickly before retreating into any number of small tunnels. Sewer Serpents prefer to use their breath weapon and will refrain from biting unless absolutely necessary.

Breath Weapon (Ex)

30-foot line of Stomach Acid and Rancid Water, 2d6 Acid Damage, Reflex DC 14, Living creatures that fail their save must make a Fortitude check to avoid becoming nauseated.

Flexible (Ex)

A Sewer Serpent can pass through openings as small as 2 ft. in diameter and move and attack without penalty.

Amphibious (Ex)
Although Sewer Serpents are aquatic, they can survive indefinitely on land.

Spell-Like Abilities

At will- Grease, Ventriloquism, Ghost Sound; 2/day- Stinking Cloud. Caster Level 8th The save DCs are Charisma-based.


Skills

A Sewer Serpent has a +8 racial bonus on any Swim check to perform some special action or avoid a hazard. It can always choose to take 10 on a Swim check, even if distracted or endangered. It can use the run action while swimming, provided it swims in a straight line.

[Winged One]

I've never heard of DR being bypassed by force, but I'll let a more experienced monstercraftsperson comment on that one way or the other. You need to specify an energy type for the breath weapon. We also need to know how the damage and save DCs are calculated for advancement.

[I_Got_This_Name]

Spells, similar magic, and energy effects automatically bypass damage reduction. /Magic means that it is bypassed by magic weapons. If there is a way to make a force effect that doesn't auto-bypass DR, then DR/Force works; otherwise, try /Magic, /Adamantine, or possibly even /Mithral, if you want to be unique.

[NullAshton]

Yeah, force automatically bypasses DR. No way to club someone over the head with a wall of force.

[Gralamin]

And here I got my hopes up that some insane-o statted up Khyber...

[LordOfNarf]

Is there any reason in particular that it has int 17, but also only one skill? It should have at least 9 if you max them out. also, its swim should be +13 at the least. And then it should have the note in its block saying:

From the SRD

Skills
A Sewer Dragon has a +8 racial bonus on any Swim check to perform some special action or avoid a hazard. It can always choose to take 10 on a Swim check, even if distracted or endangered. It can use the run action while swimming, provided it swims in a straight line.


Whats the DC for the Breath Weapon based on? I can't figure how you got DC17 it should be 10+1/2HD+relavent ability modifier (probably con)

[Zeal]

Adjusted and fixed (hopefully)

[I_Got_This_Name]

Change the damage reduction to /-, /magic, or /adamantine, or something that doesn't already auto-bypass, and you've got my MitP vote: Yes.

Edited: Also, Athanatos (below) is right; I was mostly looking at the flavor, not the stats. I'm going to withold my Yes until you clean it up like that (better con score, fix its HP to match, make it more draconic, define its tactics better).

[Dancing_Zephyr]

If the dragon has a constitution score of 3 would the Hit dice not be 3d12-12?

Also if it lives in the sewers, wouldn't it's con score be higher. sewers aren't healthy places to be.

Good job though, i like it.

[Athanatos]

Well, first off, you forgot to give it a -1 penalty to attack and AC due to its size. Second, fix the HP to 3d12-9 (10 hp).

Now... this thing is in no way deserving of CR 4. Its only real offensive capability is a breath weapon that's alleviated by DC 10 saves, and it's horribly anemic. Even without fixing the HP to 10, as it should be (!), a level 2 party could destroy this thing with ease.

What's more, it's a monster with spectacular mental scores... yet no use for them. It doesn't have any magic abilities to mechanically make use of them, and this thing doesn't seems to have a lifestyle that involves much conversation with sentient beings.

I absolutely love the concept here. The thought of these guys slithering through tiny cracks in darkened sewers, sliding sibilantly back and forth past the increasingly apprehensive party, is a great one. The execution, however... this is a Large monster, a scary one, that is no more of a threat to a party than a common Bugbear. To get a MitP vote from me, it's gonna need the following:

1) Somewhat more power. Don't make this thing undefeatable, but raising it to a power level at actually merits CR 4 seems good. Compare this to a CR 4 monster like an Owlbear (http://d20srd.org/srd/monsters/owlbear.htm). Parties should be roughly equally afraid to face those two. Right now, the Sewer Serpent looks like a joke in comparison.
2) A more clearly defined role. With no descriptive text in the Combat section, I have no idea what this guy does. Does he engage parties out in the open? Does he slip through cracks in the sewer walls, pelting them with his breath weapons from the shadows and retreating to safety? I don't know. Help me find out.
3) Justification for being a dragon. A Hydra is serpentine, it has breath weapons (at least in cryo- or pyro- form), but it's not a dragon. It's a magical beast. And right now, this guy's looking like one too. A quick fix? Give him some fitting spell-like abilities. Look at a Black Dragon for inspiration, or pick up some other minor magics with a vaguely sewer-related theme. Grease comes to mind, especially if you're making him more of a stealthy disruptor type. Speaking of which, this step goes in conjunction with the others. The abilities will not only make him more powerful, but will determine what sort of combat role he has.

As I said before, this is a great concept, but I gotta say the monster I'm currently seeing looks a bit sloppy. Fix it up, and the MitP vote is yours.

[Zeal]

Alright, the HP has been adjusted and I’ve added Spell-like abilities.

I've also changed the DR to magic but I've been unable to find where it says force effects bypass DR, if someone could point me in the right direction that would be very helpful.

Oh, and I've added text to the combat section, hope that helps clear up their role and tactics.

[asromta]

DR only applies to weapons, and as most force effects are spells, they bypass it.

And you still need to modify the Con.

If that is done, you will get my vote, a creepy sewer monster sounds good.

[LordOfNarf]

I it getting there. The math on the skills still needs tweaking though, you have to add the ranks and the ability modifiers for each skill together to get the final score.

If you up the CON and do that, you'll get a MitP vote from me.

Also, you may want to lower the Int just a bit, it seems rather studious for an acid belching sewer monster. Do note that changing the Int will change the number of skill points it gets

[asromta]

The stats seem alright now, except for the DC on the breath weapon which should be 14 (10+1 from HD+1 from Con+2 from Ability focus) and that the hitpoints should be 3d12+3 (22 hp).

[Zeal]

Okay, the HP should be fine now. (Half of each hit die, plus the constitution modifier, 7, with three hit dice is 21, adding onto that the bonus three hit points from the toughness feat, that gives us 24 hit points, not 22)

Also, the Con issue has been fixed, and I've adjusted the DC on the breath weapon.

[Athanatos]

You actually don't do half: You do average. On a d12, the results range from 1-12. (1+12)/2 = 6.5. Thus:

6.5 X 3 = 19.5 + 3 (from Constitution) + 3 (from Toughness) = 25 HP (rounded down).

[Zeal]

Well, I feel stupid now.

25 it is.

[Athanatos]

MitP vote: Definite yes. Now that the mechanical kinks have been worked out, I wholeheartedly support this guy.

... but only if you vote for Wrathlings. :P

[LordOfNarf]

I say MitP vote Yes, it looks good now, even though IMO it could use more CON, but thats jsut me, its your choice now.

You shold look at my creature that i made, the Deeptunnel Rover (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=homebrew;action=display;num=11568720 37;start=0#0) I think its pretty nifty, but it could use more people looking at it.

yes, I am shamelessly promoting my creature on someone elses thread, so? ^ did it

[fangthane]

The DR still reads as Force :)

Also, not that I've refreshed on level-based effects, but does he need to cast at 8th effective level necessarily?

[Zeal]

Thanks for the heads up on the DR; that is one of the problems in editing the text version first.

On the level issue, as far as I know, they need a caster level for durations and other similar effects.

[fangthane]

Well, yeah, but I was thinking that if the caster level isn't necessary to most functions (i.e. durations of 1 minute+ per level, etc) you can probably reduce that to HD safely - if it's necessary to have an ability retain a particular duration, fair enough.

For advancement, I'd tend to give it 4-6 HD at large and reserve huge for 7-10 or thereabouts, too, now that I think about it. How does Flexibility affect a Huge sewer dragon? How do HD affect its breath weapon, if at all? (alternately, how does size affect it?)

If the reflex is failed, is the fort DC also 14 or does it have a different basis?

Hit dice should read "3d12+6 (25 hp)" - toughness is factored into the bonus.

[Lord Iames Osari]

MitP Vote: Yes.

BTW, don't forget to vote for my Zhamachs (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=homebrew;action=display;num=11543009 28). Psionic dominate: vote yes.

[Leperflesh]

It looks like you've worked hard on this guy and I like where it's gone. Well done!
MitP Vote: Yes

-Lep