xyzzy
2009-03-01, 01:56 AM
Huge quantities of SoD spoilers ahead. Don't read ahead if you don't want it ruined. (Or go buy it real quick and then come back!:smallwink:)
There weren't any threads on this subject that were recent, so I thought I'd create a new one to present the following theory which I formulated this evening:
Monster-san is Hades, from Greek mythology. He survived meeting the Snarl, but his memory is no longer intact.
Okay, now to the evidence (without evidence, Mr. Wright, you haven't got a trial...):
1. Redcloak was young when he first put on the cloak and gained knowledge of The Plan, and he probably didn't know any non-goblins before that. He took on immense amounts of knowledge when he put the cloak on.
2. In the four years between putting on the cloak and meeting Xykon, Redcloak almost certainly had little or no contact with non-goblins. He probably fought lots of monsters and other enemies, but presumably nothing that fits the description Monster-san is given.
3. After meeting Xykon, it's more than likely that Redcloak spent all of the time before the attack on Lirian's gate with Xykon, because the entire time was presumably spent in preparation for The Plan. It's possible he was off meeting other people, but there's nothing at all to suggest this. Again, even if he did, it's highly unlikely that he met anything like Monster-san.
4. In the time between Right Eye abandoning Redcloak and Redcloak finding Right Eye and meeting Monster-san, it's for all purposes confirmed from Xykon's dialogue that Redcloak was rarely if ever not by his side. While Redcloak met other people (since he "had a lot of leads on other Gates"), it is, again, almost certain that none of these leads would've known about Monster-san.
5. This is the crucial bit (and noting this in another thread, "If the secret were to be revealed" is what led me to this theory): "I don't understand. I know what you are. You could kill them all if you wanted." That's Redcloak, speaking to Monster-san. Redcloak knows what Monster-san is, but not who.
Now, why all this leads to Monster-san being Hades.
1. Hades is traditionally considered to be frightening for mortals to look upon, and he is often shrouded in darkness. In addition, he has a helmet that grants invisibility, leaving only shadows.
2. Hades wasn't well-liked by the other gods, and presumably a world with multiple pantheons like OOTS would find him facing similar difficulty, and it's unlikely any of them would notice if he disappeared.
3. Hades is generally represented having both hair on top of his head and a beard. None of the members of the Greek pantheon the Snarl kills in the crayon section of the main comic fit that, so it's possible that Hades lived.
4. The Dark One, shunned by the gods in a manner similar to Hades, likely would have gone to any length to find anyone who might have a similar grudge against the gods and the power to help. Hades definitely would've fit this description.
5. Since the Snarl is described as devouring the souls of those it kills, it's extremely reasonable to believe that damage dealt by the Snarl could cause memory problems and cause irreversible damage to the soul.
6. Monster-san's darkness doesn't jive with the Darkness spell (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Darkness) at all. He is clearly < 40 feet wide, so the 20-foot radius Darkness uses would leave much more than him covered. Obviously if someone made Monster-san be dark, it's almost certain they used a higher-level form of the Darkness spell that's modified from the original since Redcloak is apparently unable to do anything about it, but that poses the problem of who is high enough level to do that.
7. Monster-san isn't aware of the gates; nor does he seem to have any history he's aware of.
8. If Hades (barely) survived meeting the Snarl, then the trauma of it could continue in his subconscious even if he doesn't remember why --- he might, for instance, instinctively not notice the gates providing a barrier to the Snarl.
9. Hades' helmet wouldn't do anything beyond the range of his own size.
The Dark One, who is the only person who could've possibly given Redcloak knowledge of what Monster-san was (a Greek god), most likely wouldn't have been able to identify which Greek god Monster-san was, only that he was a god not associated with any of the other pantheons in OOTS. Hades would've been heavily altered by his encounter with the Snarl, and his loner demeanor would've been stripped away with his memories --- he would've been a fresh slate, and his personality would be given the opportunity to reform into the Monster-san we know. He would've kept the helmet after he discovered what it was, and it would later become an important part of his reveal in the circus. It would eventually become a permanent fixture when he became subservient to Xykon, though to anyone who looked at him it would appear to be no different than magical darkness that only covered him.
Any gaping holes in my theory? Comments?
There weren't any threads on this subject that were recent, so I thought I'd create a new one to present the following theory which I formulated this evening:
Monster-san is Hades, from Greek mythology. He survived meeting the Snarl, but his memory is no longer intact.
Okay, now to the evidence (without evidence, Mr. Wright, you haven't got a trial...):
1. Redcloak was young when he first put on the cloak and gained knowledge of The Plan, and he probably didn't know any non-goblins before that. He took on immense amounts of knowledge when he put the cloak on.
2. In the four years between putting on the cloak and meeting Xykon, Redcloak almost certainly had little or no contact with non-goblins. He probably fought lots of monsters and other enemies, but presumably nothing that fits the description Monster-san is given.
3. After meeting Xykon, it's more than likely that Redcloak spent all of the time before the attack on Lirian's gate with Xykon, because the entire time was presumably spent in preparation for The Plan. It's possible he was off meeting other people, but there's nothing at all to suggest this. Again, even if he did, it's highly unlikely that he met anything like Monster-san.
4. In the time between Right Eye abandoning Redcloak and Redcloak finding Right Eye and meeting Monster-san, it's for all purposes confirmed from Xykon's dialogue that Redcloak was rarely if ever not by his side. While Redcloak met other people (since he "had a lot of leads on other Gates"), it is, again, almost certain that none of these leads would've known about Monster-san.
5. This is the crucial bit (and noting this in another thread, "If the secret were to be revealed" is what led me to this theory): "I don't understand. I know what you are. You could kill them all if you wanted." That's Redcloak, speaking to Monster-san. Redcloak knows what Monster-san is, but not who.
Now, why all this leads to Monster-san being Hades.
1. Hades is traditionally considered to be frightening for mortals to look upon, and he is often shrouded in darkness. In addition, he has a helmet that grants invisibility, leaving only shadows.
2. Hades wasn't well-liked by the other gods, and presumably a world with multiple pantheons like OOTS would find him facing similar difficulty, and it's unlikely any of them would notice if he disappeared.
3. Hades is generally represented having both hair on top of his head and a beard. None of the members of the Greek pantheon the Snarl kills in the crayon section of the main comic fit that, so it's possible that Hades lived.
4. The Dark One, shunned by the gods in a manner similar to Hades, likely would have gone to any length to find anyone who might have a similar grudge against the gods and the power to help. Hades definitely would've fit this description.
5. Since the Snarl is described as devouring the souls of those it kills, it's extremely reasonable to believe that damage dealt by the Snarl could cause memory problems and cause irreversible damage to the soul.
6. Monster-san's darkness doesn't jive with the Darkness spell (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Darkness) at all. He is clearly < 40 feet wide, so the 20-foot radius Darkness uses would leave much more than him covered. Obviously if someone made Monster-san be dark, it's almost certain they used a higher-level form of the Darkness spell that's modified from the original since Redcloak is apparently unable to do anything about it, but that poses the problem of who is high enough level to do that.
7. Monster-san isn't aware of the gates; nor does he seem to have any history he's aware of.
8. If Hades (barely) survived meeting the Snarl, then the trauma of it could continue in his subconscious even if he doesn't remember why --- he might, for instance, instinctively not notice the gates providing a barrier to the Snarl.
9. Hades' helmet wouldn't do anything beyond the range of his own size.
The Dark One, who is the only person who could've possibly given Redcloak knowledge of what Monster-san was (a Greek god), most likely wouldn't have been able to identify which Greek god Monster-san was, only that he was a god not associated with any of the other pantheons in OOTS. Hades would've been heavily altered by his encounter with the Snarl, and his loner demeanor would've been stripped away with his memories --- he would've been a fresh slate, and his personality would be given the opportunity to reform into the Monster-san we know. He would've kept the helmet after he discovered what it was, and it would later become an important part of his reveal in the circus. It would eventually become a permanent fixture when he became subservient to Xykon, though to anyone who looked at him it would appear to be no different than magical darkness that only covered him.
Any gaping holes in my theory? Comments?