Epic Levels

[Llama231]

So, V is getting a soul splice with these three epic spellcasters, and I was wondering what the levels of these people would be, and what level V would be with them.

We can assume that they are all epic, and by their descriptions we might be able to estimate their level.

For example, how powerful would a specialized conjurer wizard have to be to teleport armies between dimensions?

[Ancalagon]

"Homebrew to a degree where rules simply don't matter anymore. Just... play your character now and make a really cool scene"

[Finwe]

"Homebrew to a degree where rules simply don't matter anymore. Just... play your character now and make a really cool scene"

This.


The power level of these casters is such that, were I the DM, I'd let V's player do just about anything they wanted. Sure, you could try to stat out those casters, but it wouldn't be worth the time and effort, when you'd end up with pretty much the same result.

[Aharon]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/seeds/transport.htm

Using this, assuming an army of 10000 people, the Spell would have a DC of about 20000. There are lots of mitigating factors, like burning XP and so on. If I have more time, I might work it out.

Just saying it basically doesn't matter is an unwise idea, because unlimited power is a tad to unlimited to bestow it to PCs, in my opinion.

Some players might just make a cool scene, others might argue (and rightly so, IMHO), that V would USE this power to the greatest extent possible. And that amounts to a story-destroying extent, unfortunately.
Sure, in the interest of the story, a mature player wouldn't abuse your laziness, but the CHARACTER certainly would. What motivation would V have to limit herself?

[Chirios]

I can't imagine that holding on to three separate souls will be very easy. Its much more likely that V will hold on to the power long enough to defeat the dragon, then lose it and have to find a way to get back to the rest of the Order on his own.

[Darkhands]

I can't imagine that holding on to three separate souls will be very easy. Its much more likely that V will hold on to the power long enough to defeat the dragon, then lose it and have to find a way to get back to the rest of the Order on his own.

This is way too eventful and well-thought-out for a single-scene event, this is main plot stuff we're dealing with. Methinks V will hold onto the souls for much longer than the three are anticipating.

[Anonymous Man]

I'm pretty sure that the fiends are actually hoping that V hangs on to the souls for a long time. Then they get to abuse her soul for the same time.

[TengYt]

It just has to be said:

POOOOWAAAAHHHH! UNLIMITED...POOOOOWAAAHHHHH!

[Llama231]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/seeds/transport.htm

Using this, assuming an army of 10000 people, the Spell would have a DC of about 20000. There are lots of mitigating factors, like burning XP and so on. If I have more time, I might work it out.

Just saying it basically doesn't matter is an unwise idea, because unlimited power is a tad to unlimited to bestow it to PCs, in my opinion.

Some players might just make a cool scene, others might argue (and rightly so, IMHO), that V would USE this power to the greatest extent possible. And that amounts to a story-destroying extent, unfortunately.
Sure, in the interest of the story, a mature player wouldn't abuse your laziness, but the CHARACTER certainly would. What motivation would V have to limit herself?

Would the D.C, be any different for dimensional travel?

[Forealms]

Would the D.C, be any different for dimensional travel?

Not specifically, but teleporting between planes would add +4 to the DC (probably multiplied by however many 50-pound increments over the base 1000 are necessary).

Alternately, the dude could simply have 100 to 1000 elite warriors of relative epic power. If "Conjurer" can be a sorcerer (maybe even bard, but unlikely), then he would probably have a good enough Charisma (+ any magic items of compulsion or Charisma-boosting) to persuade many high-level warriors (not the class, just a general term), especially if they have as grandiose aspirations as him (which, as I understand, can lead to a significant minus on the DC to persuade them to fight). Plus he could have recruited them separately, which would shave some points off the DC to get away from mob mentality, and who knows how many other factors that affected it.

I know, I know, probably getting off the main point of teleporting the guys, but it makes it more plausible. I'm sure I had a connecting thought around here somewhere :smallconfused:

[Optimystik]

An important note is that he is evil, and so can mitgate a lot of the XP costs/Spellcraft DC by sacrificing souls instead. I'm not sure exactly how many prisoners it would take to power his dimension-hopping war machine, but I have a feeling he stocked up after every campaign.

[Sethis]

The Necromancer quite obviously knows Momento Mori, the DC 86 necromancy spell to kill "with a thought."

I'd suspect between levels 25-30. This is assuming a +20 to Spellcraft item, 40 INT, full ranks, 2 synergy from K:A, taking 10, and +11 from buffs or other items.

[grautry]

I think that either:
a) those three casters are not as powerful as advertised(but that seems unlikely after 634 where the entire screen becomes pink - the color of Arcane Power in the comic)
b) V won't hold on them for that long.

Why? Because if V becomes an uber-demigod(and he would be nothing less with the power of 3 epic level casters) for a long time then he can end the entire plot at whim. He can teleport to Xykon and Redcloak and kill them and probably their entire army without too much effort.

The only possibility I see for him holding onto the power for a long time is that either
a) he retires because he becomes disinterested with adventuring life
b) the split has unmentioned downsides and therefore, he won't be as powerful as we think he'll become.


This is way too eventful and well-thought-out for a single-scene event, this is main plot stuff we're dealing with. Methinks V will hold onto the souls for much longer than the three are anticipating.

Not necessarily. Even if he has this power for only a single scene, the consequences of his infernal deals might haunt him for a very long time.

[Snake-Aes]

I thought hir could only hold to each of them separately?

We are talking about "okay, you get to play god for the next 10 minutes" type of pact. I wouldn't bother ruling that stuff.


Also, on the ubermass teleport thing...Why does it have to be a regular spell? For all it matters, it could be a ritual, taking a couple days and maybe one or two other support casters.

[hamishspence]

"typical" epic casters as per Epic Handbook don't actually get all that many epic spells. 4 or 5 per caster would be pushing it.

so, 15 epic spells, plus V's own casting power, at boosted caster level.

Does V get all their spell slots as well?

If all get an action, its effectively 4 casters instead of one.

If V is limited by normal actions, its a significant difference.

[Chronos]

The Necromancer quite obviously knows Momento Mori, the DC 86 necromancy spell to kill "with a thought."Or it could just be a still, silent Finger of Death prepared in a perfectly ordinary 9th-level slot. And the spell for moving armies across planes could just be Gate: A 21st-level caster could hold it open long enough for about 2,000 soldiers to run through (you could get more if you reduced their size or increased their speed first, or just use multiple castings).

[factotum]

Does V get all their spell slots as well?


He must do...V can't cast Greater Teleport on his own!

[hamishspence]

true, I was thinking more of V casting as multiple casters, rather than 1 single high level caster. Slots of 4 casters, rather than 1 74th-odd level wizard/30th level sorcerer.

[Ellye]

This is way too eventful and well-thought-out for a single-scene event, this is main plot stuff we're dealing with. There's also the other side of the deal. The fiends will get control over V soul later, that will be extremely important to the plot.
V going anywhere else right now would be totally anti-climatic, imo. V solving mainplot problems while spliced would be even worse.

[Silverraptor]

Hey guys, my friend SandyCaesar noticed something about V's epicness. Unfortunately he's studing for big tests in his high school classes and can't afford the time to post it so he gave me the honor of posting it for him. However, he takes full credit for this.

He noticed that with the soul splice is just 4 casters effectively as mentioned earlier in this thread. However, the dragon has a CR of 20+. If we assume that the souls are lvl 20 or around that. V is now an effective party of 4 that is around lvl 20. Knowing that a CR is a challenging fight for 4 members of that same lvl, it pretty much means that it's a standard party caster group against an Ancient Black dragon. It's not as easy as it seems.

[Zevox]

The souls are most likely fairly well above level 20. Remember, these are three of the most powerful epic-level spellcasters of their respective alignments from all of their multiverse's history (and thus that the fiends of those alignments had access to for the Soul Splice). It's not unreasonable for them to be well into the epic levels, even perhaps level 30 or above.

As has been pointed out before though, this is still V as one character. No matter what her powers are, she is not a party. She still only gets to cast one spell plus one quickened spell per round. And its unknown whether she gains any physical durability - hp, AC, saves, etc - from the Splice. Therein lies her potential problems. She could easily mop up the Dragon if she went the most efficient route, especially if she broke out the epic magic, but it seems that isn't the way things will go down, and if she doesn't adequately ward herself - which she hasn't yet - she may the Dragon can still hurt her quite well no matter how devastating her magic abilities are.

Zevox

[Silverraptor]

Ya but you still point out that it's probably going to be a tougher fight then we expect.

[BenjCano]

Only not so much.