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Myrmex
2009-03-02, 03:42 PM
I've always wanted to have a group of telepaths run a Spelljammer-esque Astal ship, and I've decided my current campaign could use more mindflayers, so I'm looking for good, high level gestalt builds for the following:

Captain (Ultralithid?)
Telepath 16//Beguiler
Navigator
Seer12//something5/Ur-Priest7
Helmsman
Nomad12//Ranger5/Horizon Walker 7
Gunner
Kineticist14//Duskblade 14

The hit dice of the flayer will simply be replaced by the relevant levels of psion. The names of their station; captain, navigator, helmsman, gunner, are dumb, and could be more flayer. The psion side of the gestalt is definite, but what to put on the other side is a little shaky. I like the idea of the captain being very skillful, tricky, as well as a full manifester with psionic dominate. Plus spontaneous caster makes it seem less like I'm a cheating DM :smallbiggrin:

The navigator has levels of ur-priest because the cleric spell list is full of strong abjurations & divinations, and I see the navigator as both forseeing trouble, and preparing the crew for it. I've heard something of an archer cleric build- would this be possible with ur-priest? A blind flayer seer that snipes through walls would be awesome. If there are better suggestions out there, I would love to hear them.

The Nomad is basically there for teleporting and stuff. I like him being able to blink around, but ranger5/horizon walker 7 isn't particularly strong. Other than dimension door once every 1d4 rounds (should annoy the crap out of my players), his abilities aren't going to be powerful enough for the players to see, which means that any associated flavor will be ignored, due to getting hit with ultrablasts and a wall hack flayer. Alternatively, I was thinking of using teflammar shadowlord and shadow hand swordsage, but that seems a little nasty. That's like 2 or 3 full attacks a round, perhaps even kidnapping players and sucking their brains out behind a wall. I'd be less adverse to these tactics if there were more players.

Kineticist is blasty. That's all I really have. Warmage would add more blasty, but honestly, I need more actions, not more blast. Psions have plenty of pp to throw out. It's not like they're a real adventuring party. Maybe something tanky, like warblade? I'm not sure how to mesh d12 HD and sword-love with the flayer aesthetic, though.

Any thoughts/comments/suggestions would be much appreciated!

Deth Muncher
2009-03-02, 08:03 PM
I can just see PCs happening upon these guys purely by chance.

PC: "Okay, Astral Projection was a success! Now to retutn to my body...::sees Illithids about to feast on his succulent brainmeats:: Who the hell are you?!"

Illithids: "Nobody expects the Illithid Inquisition! Our chief weapons are fear, fear and suprise, fear, suprise, and a ruthless efficiency, fear, suprise, a ruthless efficiency, and an almost fanatical devotion to the Elder Brain, and these nice red uniforms."

Egiam
2009-03-02, 09:23 PM
The Eberron campaign setting has plenty of great ways to expand on flayers. if you don't have an Eberron DM of plan to have one, check out Dolgrims and Dolgaunts in the monster section.

The Lords of Madness is also fabulous.

Myrmex
2009-03-03, 03:56 AM
I guess I was looking for build help, not fluff. Fluff is easy enough and the books tend to be awful with their builds.

Oh, and a mindflayer inquisition is what they call their adventuring parties.

The Glyphstone
2009-03-03, 07:33 AM
Not that such will stop anyone from making Monty Python jokes.

Generally, in gestalt you want your secondary progression covering the aspects that your first progression lacks, since barring shenanigans, you don't get extra actions.

For example, your Captain is currently a Telepath/Beguiler. This is, for the most part, redundant - both classes have their primary attack forms based around mind-affecting abilities and Will saves, though the Telepath gets more non-Will attacks and the Beguiler gets illusions. And since you'll using only be using 1 power or spell per round, half of your Gestalt is basically going to waste. Instead of Beguiler, you want something more passive - Bard or Marshal would both be good choices, particularly for a "party leader' archetype - they have good Fort saves (and maybe good Ref saves) to balance out the poor saves a Psion has there, they have 3/4 BAB to balance out said psion's 1/2 BAB, and they have bardic music/auras that can be steadily maintained for bonuses to everyone without any further investment of effort on the character's part at all. Marshal 2/Bard 14 or Marshal 2/Bard X/Bardic Prestige Class Y - Dread Pirate is fun - could be a big power boost. It'll also mess with the heads of any powergamers you've got, as they try to figure out where the unexplained bonuses are coming from since they can't hear the telepathic Bard giving inspiring speeches in his allies' heads.

More examples later.

Lycanthromancer
2009-03-03, 10:18 AM
Well, if extra actions are what you're looking for, try going factotum on the other side of your gestalts. You can spend inspiration points for free standard actions each round.

Even better, factotum grants tons of skills, runs off int, and has lots of passive abilities that will make your gestalt characters even better.

Factotums are in Dungeonscape.

Myrmex
2009-03-03, 06:01 PM
Not that such will stop anyone from making Monty Python jokes.

Generally, in gestalt you want your secondary progression covering the aspects that your first progression lacks, since barring shenanigans, you don't get extra actions.

For example, your Captain is currently a Telepath/Beguiler. This is, for the most part, redundant - both classes have their primary attack forms based around mind-affecting abilities and Will saves, though the Telepath gets more non-Will attacks and the Beguiler gets illusions. And since you'll using only be using 1 power or spell per round, half of your Gestalt is basically going to waste. Instead of Beguiler, you want something more passive - Bard or Marshal would both be good choices, particularly for a "party leader' archetype - they have good Fort saves (and maybe good Ref saves) to balance out the poor saves a Psion has there, they have 3/4 BAB to balance out said psion's 1/2 BAB, and they have bardic music/auras that can be steadily maintained for bonuses to everyone without any further investment of effort on the character's part at all. Marshal 2/Bard 14 or Marshal 2/Bard X/Bardic Prestige Class Y - Dread Pirate is fun - could be a big power boost. It'll also mess with the heads of any powergamers you've got, as they try to figure out where the unexplained bonuses are coming from since they can't hear the telepathic Bard giving inspiring speeches in his allies' heads.

More examples later.

Telepaths get the ability so schism, which means multiple actions. Combine that with persisted synchronicity, and he shouldn't have any problem throwing out 3 powers/spells a round. Beguiler also gives good skills & skill points.

Yeah, he has bad BAB & two bad saves, but with all the casting/manifesting, it shouldn't be a big deal.

I do like the idea of telepathic bard song, though I've always imagined illithids favoring the muffled, maddening beating of vile drums and the thin monotonous whine of accursed flutes. :smallwink:


Well, if extra actions are what you're looking for, try going factotum on the other side of your gestalts. You can spend inspiration points for free standard actions each round.

Even better, factotum grants tons of skills, runs off int, and has lots of passive abilities that will make your gestalt characters even better.

Factotums are in Dungeonscape.

Ooh, brilliant!
This is going to slaughter my party.
*Evil DM laugh*

Shadow_Elf
2009-03-03, 06:35 PM
No one expects the Mind Flayer Inquisiti...

Someone already did that joke. Darn.

chiasaur11
2009-03-03, 07:08 PM
No one expects the Mind Flayer Inquisiti...

Someone already did that joke. Darn.

Well, they did say they'd come again.

Ascension
2009-03-03, 08:12 PM
No one expects the Mind Flayer Inquisiti...

Someone already did that joke. Darn.

But no one mentioned... THE COMFY CHAIR!

Deth Muncher
2009-03-03, 08:41 PM
But no one mentioned... THE COMFY CHAIR!

Or the wrack.