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High_Voltage
2009-03-02, 05:10 PM
I have a character concept that I really want to make when I get a chance and one of the key parts of it is that he does not need to sleep at all. I have no idea how to accomplish this and so I have turned to the Playground for advice.
I plan on playing a swordsage, but as for race I am still deciding on one. I know that a simple solution would be to play a warforged, but that doesn't fit with the rest of this character. Undead don't fit either. Are there any other ways to get around needing sleep with feats, items or races? Would it be unfair to ask my DM to have my character cursed so that he never sleeps?

Thanks for any help.

P.S. By sleep, I mean natural sleep. Being affected by magical sleep or sleeping poison is fine.

Alleine
2009-03-02, 05:16 PM
Outsiders and plants do not sleep either. There are plenty of outsider races, but most of them have a level adjustment. As for plants I only know of one plant race, but I think it's in a dragon mag.

Aquillion
2009-03-02, 05:21 PM
There are no rules for sleep, nor any penalties for failing to sleep. Therefore, sleep is optional. Ironically, the rules state that you will become fatigued if you sleep in your armor, but say nothing about what happens if you never go to sleep at all; the logical conclusion is that, for non-spellcasters, sleep in D&D does nothing but make you more tired.

Eldariel
2009-03-02, 05:24 PM
Neraphim [PlH] are LA +0 Outsiders so that'd work. Otherwise, the Otherworldly [PGtF]-feat makes you an Outsider. Those are the easiest LA +0 ways, I think.

Alleine
2009-03-02, 05:27 PM
Heh, death doesn't have any rules either, right? So technically losing hitpoints is only an annoyance that you have to calculate.


In the Fiend Folio there are planetouched. Basically just variants of several base races, unfortunately all of them have LA. Equally unfortunate is that any outsiders that are native also have to sleep, so aasimars and tieflings won't work.

Aquillion
2009-03-02, 05:29 PM
Outsiders and plants do not sleep either. There are plenty of outsider races, but most of them have a level adjustment. As for plants I only know of one plant race, but I think it's in a dragon mag.
Note that non-native Outsiders are the only ones that don't have to sleep, and they (plus Elementals, who likewise don't have to sleep) can't be brought back from the dead by any of the easy methods -- not a good thing for a PC.

The only creature types that don't have to sleep and can still be brought back by animate dead are plants and oozes, which are probably more of an issue than warforged... although an Enlightened Ooze Warblade would be a fun character to play.

monty
2009-03-02, 05:30 PM
Having a friendly cleric cast lesser restoration on you every morning (or getting it through an item, or something similar), will do, since the only penalty that I know of for not sleeping is being fatigued. That may not be what you're looking for, though.

Aquillion
2009-03-02, 05:33 PM
Having a friendly cleric cast lesser restoration on you every morning (or getting it through an item, or something similar), will do, since the only penalty that I know of for not sleeping is being fatigued. That may not be what you're looking for, though.That's actually what I was thinking when I remembered that there are no rules stating what the penalty for not sleeping is and, therefore, no way via RAW to finesse that penalty. :smallannoyed:

Blackfang108
2009-03-02, 05:43 PM
The Urban Soul PrC in Races of Destiny. You dont' have to eat or sleep so long as you're in a city.

any city.

(the problem being, you need ot be in a city, so YMMV on the usefulness of this. Because you get a penalty for not being in a city.)

monty
2009-03-02, 05:46 PM
That's actually what I was thinking when I remembered that there are no rules stating what the penalty for not sleeping is and, therefore, no way via RAW to finesse that penalty. :smallannoyed:

Really? I could've sworn I read somewhere that not sleeping makes you fatigued...maybe I'm just crazy.

Sendal
2009-03-02, 05:50 PM
I think vow of poverty at high levels means you don't need to sleep. (or eat, or breath...) but that only works with certain character builds.

Johel
2009-03-02, 05:59 PM
Ring of Sustenance (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rings.htm#sustenance)


This ring continually provides its wearer with life-sustaining nourishment. The ring also refreshes the body and mind, so that its wearer needs only sleep 2 hours per day to gain the benefit of 8 hours of sleep. The ring must be worn for a full week before it begins to work. If it is removed, the owner must wear it for another week to reattune it to himself.

Faint conjuration; CL 5th; Forge Ring, create food and water; Price 2,500 gp.

Not a true solution but that's a start, no ?

High_Voltage
2009-03-02, 07:01 PM
Thanks for the suggestions I've already received. Shame native outsiders still need to sleep.

Thanks for the Urban Soul tip Blackfang, but my DM does not really do a whole lot of city-based adventures. I will keep that in mind for future use in case he decides to do one.

So far the ring of sustenance Johel suggested seems like the best option right now, but if you have more then keep them coming.

Playing as an outsider is still a possibility despite the resurrection problems. Are there any non-native ones that won't cause me to take too harsh of a hit to my levels and will still be good for a swordsage (focusing on WIS and DEX)? Otherworldly only turns you into a native outsider so not quite enough. Neraphim is a possibility, but I'm not particularly interested in them.

Swooper
2009-03-02, 07:02 PM
You could just, you know, play an elf. They don't sleep, they trance :smallbiggrin:

Alleine
2009-03-02, 07:23 PM
Whisplings from FF are pretty good. Essentially a halfling, only an outsider with a -2 str, +4 dex, +2 int, and disguise self 1/day. They have a +1 LA so it isn't too bad.

kyoten
2009-03-02, 07:30 PM
Note that non-native Outsiders are the only ones that don't have to sleep, and they (plus Elementals, who likewise don't have to sleep) can't be brought back from the dead by any of the easy methods -- not a good thing for a PC.

The only creature types that don't have to sleep and can still be brought back by animate dead are plants and oozes, which are probably more of an issue than warforged... although an Enlightened Ooze Warblade would be a fun character to play.

Can you provide a link to information pertaining to the Enlightened! Also, that makes me wonder about the Awakened; what are the rules on them?

Accersitus
2009-03-02, 07:37 PM
Tomb-Born vitality feat from Libris Mortis, gives the desired effect,
but it has the Tomb-Tainted soul feat as prerequisite so a total of
2 feats for the effect.
This might be a bit too undeadish for you though, although you
don't become undead from this.

bosssmiley
2009-03-03, 06:45 AM
You could just, you know, play an elf. They don't sleep, they trance :smallbiggrin:

Bah! Your 'logic', 'common sense' and 'obvious answers' have no place here. :smallamused:

Aquillion
2009-03-03, 06:53 AM
Can you provide a link to information pertaining to the Enlightened! Also, that makes me wonder about the Awakened; what are the rules on them?Unfortunately, I just used it as a catchall term for "having an Int score added and its Int, Wis and Cha raised to 3 or above somehow." I don't know of any actual rules for it, sorry. :smalltongue:

EDIT: But "awakened" is a template added to animals or trees by the Druid spell Awaken (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Awaken).

Darrin
2009-03-03, 08:00 AM
Can you provide a link to information pertaining to the Enlightened! Also, that makes me wonder about the Awakened; what are the rules on them?

There are several ways to give intelligence to an ooze, not the least of which would be the Pseudonatural template, which raises the Int to 3. As does the Celestial, Fiendish, Axiomatic, or Anarchic template, as demonstrated on the WotC website:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/eo/20060922a

and

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/eo/20040521a

There is also the Awaken Ooze spell from Dragon #304.

As far as not needing sleep:

Neraph has already been mentioned as a LA +0 outsider race.

The OP mentioned SwordSage, but if you go Warblade or take a couple Martial Study feats, you can pick up Iron Heart Surge. Assuming we can determine what the specific penalties are for not sleeping, just use Iron Heart Surge to get rid of them (just make sure you don't say anything to the DM like "Ugh, I really feel weighed down this morning" or "Gosh the sun is way too bright").

Another option from MIC: Sphere of Awakening. If you ever feel sleepy, activate it once per day, and it wakes everybody up, removes all fatigue effects, and makes you immune to fatigue effects for the next 10 minutes.

Blackfang108
2009-03-03, 10:36 AM
Neraph has already been mentioned as a LA +0 outsider race.

You forgot just how much FUN these guys are to play as.

My first D&D character was a Neraph Barbarian/Chaotician (Only got one level in Chaotician due to the campaign dying at level 6, but still.)

It's a fun combo, and there's no reason to ever sleep.

And Hey, you're playing as a Battletoad. In a game that (theoretically) isn't impossible for two+ people to beat!

EDIT: I can't spell today.

grinner666
2009-03-03, 11:12 AM
Play something undead.

:smalltongue:

Keld Denar
2009-03-03, 12:25 PM
Suprised nobody mentioned the 'forged...Warforged do not sleep.

There is also a spell in Lost Empires of Faerun, Ray of Revitilization or something. Its a 1st level spell, I think it appears on the Ranger spell list or something, which would make it applicable to put on a 1st level Eternal Wand.

Otherwise get a Wand of Lesser Restoration made by a Paladin. 750 gold for 50 sleepless nights.

Albonor
2009-03-03, 12:37 PM
Wakeful mind is a construct graft from Faiths of Eberon that makes you, among other things, immune to sleep and stunning. It does come with a -2 penalty to knowledge checks. It costs 18000gp but you may be able to include it in your background or something.

Ascension
2009-03-03, 12:46 PM
Suprised nobody mentioned the 'forged...Warforged do not sleep.

Because the OP said he knows this but would rather not play one in the first post.

Curmudgeon
2009-03-03, 12:50 PM
Otherwise get a Wand of Lesser Restoration made by a Paladin. 750 gold for 50 sleepless nights. Wrong price. The formula is
750 level of spell level of casterA Paladin can't ever cast 1st level spells below 4th level -- and that's with bonus spells; the normal minimum is 6th level.

Through 3rd level, a paladin has no caster level. At 4th level and higher, her caster level is one-half her paladin level. If you want to go this route (i.e. just do all-nighters and eliminate the fatigue), I recommend instead the Breath of the Waves graft (Magic of Eberron). For a one-time price of 9,000 gp and 4 HP you can eliminate fatigue and most every other negative condition once per hour.

JellyPooga
2009-03-03, 01:25 PM
A one level dip into the Tattooed Monk PrC will get you the Ocean tattoo, which negates any need to eat, sleep or breathe. Requires Lawful alignment and Improved Grapple though, which isn't tasty for many characters...

JeenLeen
2009-03-03, 02:24 PM
So far the ring of sustenance Johel suggested seems like the best option right now, but if you have more then keep them coming.

I think there's a sleeping bag in DMG that lets you get a full night's sleep inonly a few, under the Wondrous Items. It will let you use the ring slot for something else.
In a quick glimpse through the DMG, I'm not finding it, but I know I read it in some sourcebook.

Fixer
2009-03-03, 02:38 PM
I think there's a sleeping bag in DMG that lets you get a full night's sleep inonly a few, under the Wondrous Items. It will let you use the ring slot for something else.
In a quick glimpse through the DMG, I'm not finding it, but I know I read it in some sourcebook.
I want to say 'Blessed Bedroll' and it is in the Complete Mage, but I don't have my book handy.

Tiki Snakes
2009-03-03, 02:44 PM
Personally, I'd say just have a word with your DM. If your character concept includes the idea that he doesn't need to sleep, just ask your friendly neighborhood dungeon master to allow you to re-fluff his 'extended rest' to us a 4th edition term, as not involving actual sleep.

That way would still require him to have the same amount of 'downtime' as any other player, and the benefits are really quite tiny if not abused mercilessly.

Another possible would be to go the 'cannot sleep' route. Work on a nice juicy curse with your DM that includes him being completely unable to sleep. If you're feeling up to it, suggest the DM is free to include some other elements of the curse, gives him a big old plot-hook-goes-here handle to use with your character, and gives you a little bit more to sink your RP teeth into. (YMMV depending on the sadism of you DM, obviously.)

Or you could just play your character as Delusional, and just refuse to sleep even though you actually need to.

Keld Denar
2009-03-03, 05:05 PM
Wrong price. The formula isA Paladin can't ever cast 1st level spells below 4th level -- and that's with bonus spells; the normal minimum is 6th level.


I don't see why the minimum would be 6th level. Thats assuming the paladin has an 11 wisdom. Even 12 wisdom gives a bonus spell which would allow spellcasting at level 4. Doesn't matter if its a bonus spell. Check out the formula for bards making items.

This kind of brings up an interesting question. What is the minimum CL for a paladin to cast spells? Normally I'd think its 2, since 4/2=2 and 4 is the first level a paladin gains spells and thus a CL. But then I got to thinking, what if a 4th level paladin suffers a curse or otherwise has his CL penalized down to 1. Would he be completely unable to cast spells?

Also, you can voluntarily lower your CL when casting a spell to get a lesser effect, but you can't lower it past the minimum level required to cast the spell. Now, do paladins NEED a 2 CL in order to cast 1st level spells, or is 2 just an arbitrary result of the fact that a paladin needs 4 levels in order to cast 1st level spells.

Interesting questions...

Curmudgeon
2009-03-03, 08:24 PM
What is the minimum CL for a paladin to cast spells? Normally I'd think its 2, since 4/2=2 and 4 is the first level a paladin gains spells and thus a CL. But then I got to thinking, what if a 4th level paladin suffers a curse or otherwise has his CL penalized down to 1. Would he be completely unable to cast spells? I don't know of any curse that would accomplish this. Negative levels could drop the Paladin down to (effectively) 3rd level, at which time they would lose all spellcasting.

Now, do paladins NEED a 2 CL in order to cast 1st level spells, or is 2 just an arbitrary result of the fact that a paladin needs 4 levels in order to cast 1st level spells.

Interesting questions... Interesting indeed. I think that's up to DM interpretation.
A creator can create an item at a lower caster level than her own, but never lower than the minimum level needed to cast the needed spell. Paladins and Rangers never achieve caster level 1 normally; they go from CL "-" to 2. If you take that into account, their minimum CL can never be below 2.

Keld Denar
2009-03-03, 08:52 PM
In the real rules, no, but Afroakuma homebrewed up a monster called a Polytrotos (denizen of Pandamonium) that hits you with a -1 CL every time you affect it with a targeted or area spell. Nasty little buggers, but really neat.

So...say a Ranger4 with a 20 wisdom (2 bonus spells) cast an Entangle spell and hit one in the area. That Ranger would now have an effective CL of 1. Would he still be able to cast his other spell?

elonin
2009-03-03, 08:59 PM
There are no rules for sleep, nor any penalties for failing to sleep. Therefore, sleep is optional. Ironically, the rules state that you will become fatigued if you sleep in your armor, but say nothing about what happens if you never go to sleep at all; the logical conclusion is that, for non-spellcasters, sleep in D&D does nothing but make you more tired.

This works in the same sense that old people have better hearing and sight than younger people do. This was covered by an OOTS comic.

Think someone pointed this out but the ring of sustenance might work for you.

Thurbane
2009-03-03, 09:33 PM
You could just, you know, play an elf. They don't sleep, they trance :smallbiggrin:
I've got friends like that. With glowsticks and everything. :smalltongue: