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Winged One
2006-09-05, 07:22 PM
Multiblast[general]
Your eldrich blast is fired no more slowly then a normal weapon
Prerequisites: eldrich blast, ability to use least invocations
Benefit: Instead of taking a standard action to use eldrich blast, you may instead make a full attack using your eldrich blast, thus gaining multiple attacks based on your base attack bonus. Anything that would give you additional attacks on a full attack, such as the Haste spell, allows another eldrich blast when using this feat. You may not apply any blast shape invocations to your eldrich blast that do not require an attack roll if you use this feat. You may use different blast shape and/or eldrich essence invocations on each eldrich blast. Empower Spell-Like Ability, Quicken Spell-Like Ability, and simmilar feats require a seperate use for each attack if used.
Normal: You may not make a full attack with your eldrich blast.
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So how is it, balance-wise? Does it make warlocks useful for once, or does it break them, or do they suck with or without this?

Lord Iames Osari
2006-09-05, 07:32 PM
Umm... Attacks are standard actions. Full attacking is a special full-round action. (Wow, you're a titan? Lern2play. ;) ) Still, no biggie. Just reword the feat so that warlocks can create multiple blasts as a full-round action, just as if they were taking the full-attack action.

I haven't played warlocks at all, so i'm not in any position to comment on game balance.

Winged One
2006-09-05, 07:36 PM
Wording fixed(I hope).

Umbral_Arcanist
2006-09-05, 08:03 PM
I get what it's saying i'd phrase it "Instead of taking a standard action to use EB, a warlock may instead make a full attack using EB, thus gaining multiple attacks based on BAB"

It seems balanced in that it won't break warlocks.....

I would say this does not work with any blast shapes except hideous blow, eldritch spear, and chain (so no doom or cone)

Also the warlock should be able to change which essence (if any) he uses on each blast....... this is a good feat which makes the warlock alot more useful........

Winged One
2006-09-05, 08:25 PM
Changed the prerequisites to allow a warlock to take this at any level and modified the wording, taking into account Umbral Arcanist's suggestions. Thanks.

Krimm_Blackleaf
2006-09-05, 11:23 PM
Wouldn't it kinda make sense if it's required that he has a BAB of at least 6? just so he's taking this feat and is capable of multiple blasts at the same time, instead of taking it until thier BAB is 6.

But otherwise I really like, hopefully my DM will allow it for my warlock blaster.

Winged One
2006-09-06, 12:47 AM
Wouldn't it kinda make sense if it's required that he has a BAB of at least 6? just so he's taking this feat and is capable of multiple blasts at the same time, instead of taking it until thier BAB is 6.

But otherwise I really like, hopefully my DM will allow it for my warlock blaster.
It did originally, but I eliminated that prerequisite to allow it to take adavantage of Haste and other things that allow multiple attacks before then.

MrSeth
2006-09-06, 01:07 AM
0____o

Huh?


I thought that using EB was a normal attack action to begin with, and that using an invocation was a standard action.

Fizban
2006-09-06, 01:23 AM
EB is an SLA, and therefore takes a standard action, provokes AOOs, and etc. I would word it something like this:
You may spend a full round action using your eldritch blast, making as many attacks with it as you could a normal projectile weapon. If you apply an eldritch essence, it applies to all these attacks. You may not apply a blast shape to these attacks.(rapid shot could be a problem with this, but that takes two more feats you wouldn't normally take).
Or we could change EB into a normal ranged attack like ^ thought, so it's a bit more viable in combat and you'd get iterative attacks (since this is a feat all warlocks would take anyway).

All people looking for warlock options should take a look around on the wizard's boards. Thread was "the warlock circle" (I think), has a lot of feats/invocations/variants, and even a few items.

NullAshton
2006-09-06, 02:59 PM
Baleful utterance full attack, away!

Fizban
2006-09-06, 05:20 PM
Baleful utterance full attack, away!

I hope that wasn't directed at me, because I said nothing of the sort.

fangthane
2006-09-06, 05:56 PM
1. I think the ability is liable to break the design parameters if:
a. Any essences used affect more than one attack
b. Any two targets are more than 20 feet apart
c. Any shapes affect more than one of the attacks
2. I believe I recall reading that using meta feats to empower the blast was a full-round action on its own (as with any SLA), no? If I'm remembering incorrectly, let me know; I haven't tried running one yet so I lack personal perspective.

Edit - also, it should be a series of feats. Multiblast should require character level 5 minimum, Improved should require 10 and Greater should require 15, each adding the potential for ONE extra attack in the sequence provided BAB and other effects would allow it.

Umbral_Arcanist
2006-09-06, 06:09 PM
1. I think the ability is liable to break the design parameters if:
a. Any essences used affect more than one attack
b. Any two targets are more than 20 feet apart
c. Any shapes affect more than one of the attacks
2. I believe I recall reading that using meta feats to empower the blast was a full-round action on its own (as with any SLA), no? If I'm remembering incorrectly, let me know; I haven't tried running one yet so I lack personal perspective.

Edit - also, it should be a series of feats. Multiblast should require character level 5 minimum, Improved should require 10 and Greater should require 15, each adding the potential for ONE extra attack in the sequence provided BAB and other effects would allow it.

That would make the second two useless, one of the warlocks problems is that it is already strapped for feats.....

fangthane
2006-09-06, 06:21 PM
I'm not trying to start a big argument or anything, but in what way are warlocks strapped for feats that sorcerers aren't? I mean, granted sorcs don't get (or need) a feat to increase the number of spells they can cast as a full attack action, and many spells have such factors built in, but given that Wizards felt the warlock was relatively balanced as written, a feat giving this much benefit certainly isn't...

Caelestion
2006-09-06, 08:57 PM
If they're multishotting all these eldritch blasts, they shouldn't be taking time to mix and match different invocations and shapes and whatnot. Make them stick to one configuration per round. Likewise, let them lump all their attacks on one target.
Also, are you suggesting that the Warlock (particularly a high-level one) can now whip out 6d6 or 8d6 or whatever each and every attack? That sounds a mighty bit overpowered to me. It also seems that like a feat that a Warlock would be stupid not to have, which is always a good indication of overpoweredness.

Tyrel_Aurelian
2006-09-07, 07:40 AM
I agree with Caelestion.

I am a definite Warlock-Lover as this class in my opinion really provides some dark fun!

I don't actually know if our player group agreement is a rule bend at least, but we use the usual rule for "holding the charge" of a spell in case the warlock misses with his Eldritch Blast, so if he misses he can use as many attacks he has remaining from his BAB to try to place the Blast were it belongs ;)

But having the ability to shoot three Blasts from 15th Level on and even making feats like rapid shot available... I mean the next logical step would be Multishot (Level 16, 4 Blasts as a standard action if I am not mistaken) and how are you gonna stop THAT killing machine?

I think there are some feats available for all people who favor ray attacks, and this should be used if you want to be specialized enough - for all other situations there is Eldritch Chain.

Granted, it can be terribly disappointing hitting your foe with an 8d6 Blast and doing about 10 damage because of the dice, however you still got to show me the fighter who does up to 48 damage without extreme luck or equipment and still move away from his enemy.

I also consider Caelestions last sentence to be very true, it is a very good indicator for an unbalanced feat.

Larrin
2006-09-07, 01:19 PM
i third that this would be a 'No one wouldn't take it' feat, and therefore should not be a feat choice. EB is a spell like ability, you treat it like one more often then not when making feats for it (ie, stick with metamagical themes or other spell type feats.)

further proof its not good. currently the way to get two EB's in one round is with quicken spell like ability, which you can use three times a day. This feat lets you use that ability (with limitations sure, but still, you could alway choose to use quciken on those limited choices as well, maybe the warlock didn't take any essences or shapes) unlimited times, thus making one feat (quicken) no good .

lsfreak
2006-09-09, 10:05 PM
However, the other thing to consider is that warlocks are severly limited in their usefulness later on, when compared to fighters or rogues (and especially real casters). I'm not sure giving them 3 or more 9d6 ranged touch attacks is the answer though.

And it wouldn't *entirely* make quicken spell-like ability useless, it would make it like a severely limited-use off-hand attack with twf... or something.

kailin
2006-09-10, 12:33 PM
I fourth that opinion. Full-attacking with an EB is broken. Bah-roken.

No warlock would not take it. Not only is it highly damaging, it's also extremely utilitarian for mix-matching essence invocations.

If you're depressed by the warlock's lack of combat intensity, you're playing in the wrong kind of game. Warlocks don't have the combat-swinging spell power of wiz/sor's, and their EB is designed to be less damaging than a decently built and equipped archer's full attack. What they have in spades is staying power. When the sorceror is out of spells and the other PCs are reduced to hiding behind the archer and playing hit-and-run, the warlock will still gleefully be baleful polymorphing and blasting for 6d6 a round plus bonus effects.

He is not a damage tank, and trying to make him one removes one of the few limitations he has.

If you really wanna try something like this, try finessing a metamagic feat like Chain Spell to be an EB invocation of some sort.