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magic9mushroom
2009-03-03, 09:45 AM
Of the "kills from 1000 ft away, noone sees a thing" type.

Sneak Attack is obviously a good idea, need to pick up a level of Assassin for Sniper's Shot though. Telling Blow allows you to SA twice on a crit, right? If so, then buffing the crit range as well would be a good idea. Also Deadly Precision (NOT Craven because it's 30ft range) for increasing SA damage. I think there's another thing that allows you to reroll, forget what it is though.

Great Crossbow (Races of Stone) seems to be the best weapon for the job, since you can't full-attack while sniping. Also has a 18-20 crit range, so goes well with Telling Blow.

Point Blank/Far Shot, obviously, as well as Precise and Improved Precise Shot. Duh.

What have I missed?

PrGo
2009-03-03, 11:21 AM
Well the Crossbow Sniper feat from PHPII and Improved Crossbow Sniper (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Improved_Crossbow_Sniper_(DnD_Feat)) would help when you run out of spells. It also allows you to add Dex to your crossbow damage and increases your sneak attack range by 60 and 90 feets respectively.

BRC
2009-03-03, 11:26 AM
You might want a fighter level or two, just to boost your BAB, and because this build looks feat-heavy. I wouldn't bother going beyond Fighter 2 though.
EDIT: Also, it would be good to invest in some potions of True Strike.

Iku Rex
2009-03-03, 11:41 AM
A bow is much better for sniping. It lets you use the hunter's mercy (SpC) spell to get an almost guaranteed critical hit.

Deepwood sniper (MastWild) is a good class for sniping with both bows and crossbows.

Paul H
2009-03-03, 11:42 AM
Hi

Just need to have access to the Magic Item Compendium, and Accuracy spell. (Warmages have it).

Accuracy doubles the range of ranged weapons.

MIC has niceties like Strongarm Bracers, allowing you to use larger weapons without penalty. (Think it works with ranged wpns, certainly does with melee ones). Also has a 'special' for crossbows - an extra dimensional space that stores 100 bolts & allows you to use the full attack option with the crossbow! Changing/reloading the crossbow is a standard action.

So - against Evil creatures:

+3 Oversized Light Crossbow/Keen/Holy/Heavenly Burst/Sacred/Collision/(Whatever name is for extra dim space) costs as a +10 Lt Crossbow doing 2D6+8(oversized + Collision), plus Holy, plus extra 3D6 vs Evil on crit, (Hvnly Burst), plus plus extra D6 vs Undead/2D6 vs Evil Outsiders. Threats on 17-20. Double damage.

Can also add Prismatic Burst (Prismatic Spray effect [DC 20] on crit, even against creatures that can't be critted) for extra 30,000GP. Add a weapon crystal for even more damage!

Try out the Wraith's Woe set at the end of the book - brilliant against Undead & creatures that damage/drain your stats, or drain levels.

You could try out sneak attacks, but I prefer to go with a Warmage/Ftr/Eldritch Knight combo, taking Imp Crit as a feat, using that 'plus' on the crossbow for Spell Storing.

Now think about a crossbow that you can full attack with, & threats on 17+. With Scorching Ray in it that's 2*(12D6+Int) fire damage, plus random Prismatic Ray damage on crit. Factor in Wpn Spec from fighter on oversized crossbow for 4D6+20 plus 2D6 (Holy) plus 3D6 (Hvn Burst) plus bonuses vs Undead/Evil Outsiders. (Wraith's Woe count's all your wpns as 'Ghost Touch' too....)

So Warmage 4/Ftr 4/Eldritch Knight 4 (Dex 18)
Attack: +19/14/9 Oversized Lt Crossbow (As above)
Damage: 2D6+10 (Plus Holy, Sacred, Spell Stored; Hvn Burst, Prismatic Spray on crit).
Crit:17-20 *2

Cheers
Paul H

lsfreak
2009-03-03, 12:34 PM
A few spells that could be useful, whether from class (assassin) or from UMD + scrolls/wands.

True strike. Obvious.
Sniper's shot. Required.
Near horizon (Complete Mage). For 3 rounds, as a swift action (if you're not using wands/scrolls), no range penalty. If you're after something at max range, it's a Quickened Extended+ True Shot. As a scroll/wand, it still lets you make 2 full attacks with sneak attack (even unhidden, a target takes -10 to see you for every 100 feet away).
Arrowsplit (Champions of Ruin). A masterwork arrow becomes 1d4+1 arrows. That's a lot of sneak attack. As written, though, must be cast by an assassin in order to work (doesn't last beyond the round it's cast in, so unless your DM rules otherwise scrolls/wands are useless).

magic9mushroom
2009-03-03, 01:30 PM
Well the Crossbow Sniper feat from PHPII and Improved Crossbow Sniper (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Improved_Crossbow_Sniper_(DnD_Feat)) would help when you run out of spells. It also allows you to add Dex to your crossbow damage and increases your sneak attack range by 60 and 90 feets respectively.

Crossbow Sniper does not do very much damage compared to Sneak Attack, like 6 damage compared to 10d6 with rerolls of all 1s. The Sneak Attack at 60 feet is useful for combat but utterly worthless for an actual sniper. Improved Crossbow Sniper is homebrew and just as useless anyway.


A few spells that could be useful, whether from class (assassin) or from UMD + scrolls/wands.

True strike. Obvious.
Sniper's shot. Required.
Near horizon (Complete Mage). For 3 rounds, as a swift action (if you're not using wands/scrolls), no range penalty. If you're after something at max range, it's a Quickened Extended+ True Shot. As a scroll/wand, it still lets you make 2 full attacks with sneak attack (even unhidden, a target takes -10 to see you for every 100 feet away).
Arrowsplit (Champions of Ruin). A masterwork arrow becomes 1d4+1 arrows. That's a lot of sneak attack. As written, though, must be cast by an assassin in order to work (doesn't last beyond the round it's cast in, so unless your DM rules otherwise scrolls/wands are useless).

Near Horizon looks good, though you can only get 1 attack with it and True Strike/Sniper's Shot, or 2 with it and Sniper's Shot.

Arrowsplit won't stack properly with True Strike, so you'll need Gauntlets of True Strike or sth.

So I guess the result would be something like:
Round 1: Near Horizon, Sniper's Shot
Round 2: Arrowsplit, Shoot, re-hide.
Round 3: Reload.

The rules say that you don't get to make a Hide check unless you take a move action. That means they automatically see you.

:smallfurious: at those who say use a bow. Crossbows are cooler! And 18-20 crit is better than x3 crit.

RTGoodman
2009-03-03, 01:48 PM
Telling Blow allows you to SA twice on a crit, right?

I'm AFB, but I DON'T think that's right. IIRC, Telling Blow just gives you another time when you'd be able to apply SA. Instead of only working when you flank or the opponent is denied Dex bonus, it now also applies if you crit. Of course, SA damage isn't multiplied on a crit, so you're not really doing all that extra. Since you should be attacking from hiding anyway, it's a wasted feat.

If you want to boost SA, the best feat is Craven, from Heroes of Battle, I think. It adds your level to your SA damage, which is pretty good.

Also, something to think about might be a Sneak Attack variant Fighter (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#fighter) for a couple of levels (4?) to boost your BAB.

Eldariel
2009-03-03, 02:03 PM
I'm AFB, but I DON'T think that's right. IIRC, Telling Blow just gives you another time when you'd be able to apply SA. Instead of only working when you flank or the opponent is denied Dex bonus, it now also applies if you crit. Of course, SA damage isn't multiplied on a crit, so you're not really doing all that extra. Since you should be attacking from hiding anyway, it's a wasted feat.

This is correct. Telling Blow + Hunter's Mercy does the same as Sniper's Shot (plus automatic Critical) though, but works only with Bows.

Eloel
2009-03-03, 02:24 PM
it still lets you make 2 full attacks with sneak attack (even unhidden, a target takes -10 to see you for every 100 feet away).

NO. Max range for Sneak Attack is 30ft, except a few feats, and 90ft with them too.

Person_Man
2009-03-03, 03:00 PM
We've tried this a bunch of times on the boards, and I have yet to see a good option. Sneak Attack has a range limit. Some archery feats can't be used with a crossbow. Archers in general have cruddy PrC support. But most importantly, D&D does a really poor job of dealing with big distances in combat. it's a tabletop game, and combat needs to fit on the tabletop.

You might be content to hang 500 feet away, but the rest of your party wants to get close to the enemy. So if you really want to, you can play off screen, shooting in 1d10 + magic damage 2-4 times per round. But that gets really boring, really fast. And then you head into a dungeon, where you're going to have to stand within 30 feet of your enemy anyway.

It's a lost cause. If you really, really want to do it, then I suggest you go with the standard Cleric archer build. Take Zen Archery, buff, shoot, repeat. That way you'll at least have interesting spells to fall back on.

lsfreak
2009-03-03, 03:05 PM
NO. Max range for Sneak Attack is 30ft, except a few feats, and 90ft with them too.
Sniper's Shot lets you make all attacks before the start of your next turn sneak attacks, regardless of distance. Just a normal Composite Longbow + Far Shot means full attack with full sneak attack at 2200 feet (and obviously you'd want to cast Near Horizon before that, eliminating all range penalties).
EDIT: And by 2200 I of course mean 1650. That's still a -165 to spot you, even when you're unhidden, and while being shot at gives you a general idea of where the shots are coming from, that's not going to come anywhere close to letting you just see who's shooting.

ravenkith
2009-03-03, 03:25 PM
I might consider doing something like the following:

1: Rogue 1
2: Fighter (Thug) 1
3: Fighter (Thug) 2
4: Fighter (Thug) 3
5: Rogue 2
6: Rogue 3
7: Sorceror 1
8: Abjurant Champion 1
9: Abjurant Champion 2
10: Abjurant Champion 3
11: Spellsword 1
12: Abjurant Champion 4
13: Abjurant Champion 5
14: Rogue 4
15: Rogue 5
16: Rogue 6
17: Rogue 7
18: Rogue 8
19: Rogue 9
20: Rogue 10

BAB +16
Spellcasting: as 7th level Sorceror
Feats Required: Combat Casting
SA Die total: 7d6
1 rogue special ability
Ability to wear ( and cast ) in light armor.
Proficient in all weapons and armor (except exotic).

This is a pretty cheap way to make it happen: Note that as a sorceror, you will be able to cast your spells many more times a day than as an assasin.

In addition, you can pick up whatever spells you want (of course, Sniper's Shot has got to be on that list). Shield would be a good choice with this build for if and when thinks go south in a hurry. An instant + 9 to AC is always helpful.

A 14 in charisma should be powerful enough to run any of your spells for you - and will give you an extra 1st and 2nd per day - making a total of 7 1st level and 7 2nd level per day with this build, off of 5 and 3 known, respectively.

Note that this build doesn't tie you into any one race - it doesn't use any race-specific feats or classes...so you can go human, or you can go elf if you like, or whatever.

Finally, if you don't mind losing BAB, and you really want to continue your spell casting progression, you can switch out all rogue levels after Abjurant Champion with Arcane Trickster levels instead.

You still get the 7d6 SA, but now you get 13th level sorceror casting (6th level spells, etc.). Granted, you lose out on 1 bab (and thus miss hitting the + 16 needed for four attacks/round), and your rogue special ability, but gain the chance to add greater invisibility to the spells you can cast without having to resort to a wand.

Of course this means getting your charisma to at least 16. Of course, personally I prefer the AT build - spell casting is king, after all.

KEY POINT: This build will function just as well close in as it will from far away: As long as you know sniper's shot, you have the option to snipe, but familiarity with all weapons means having to switch weapons is not that big of a deal.

All you have to do with your feat selection is be careful not to overspecialize.

Hope this helps.

Baron Malkar
2009-03-03, 03:50 PM
IMO the best way to do a sniper is to use a Sorc. on a wagon mounted with a Batista, use your eagle as your spotter and be proactive with "random" encounters.:smallbiggrin: