Soul Splice- how does it end when V fails hir will save?

[Vampire包子]

So, sooner or later V will lose control, and the Soul Splice ends. What are the exact mechanics? Do the souls simply ungraft themselves, returning to their masters? V can hold it so long as s/he can maintain focus and control; on the round s/he loses control, does it end immediately, or is it possible for V to be influenced by the voices? Will V's own soul and alignment suffer any lasting effects?

Couldn't find Soul Splicing in my gamebook, or on d20. Is it 4.0, or a custom game mechanic?

[Kish]

Couldn't find Soul Splicing in my gamebook, or on d20. Is it 4.0, or a custom game mechanic?
The fiends explicitly said "don't bother looking it up," remember?

[SteveMB]

So, sooner or later V will lose control, and the Soul Splice ends. What are the exact mechanics? Do the souls simply ungraft themselves, returning to their masters?

That's what the fiend's description seems to imply. They also seem to imply that V can easily let go at will, and indeed will eventually be forced to do so when h** willpower gives out. However, they didn't really say exactly what happens when V tries to let go or can't hold on any longer.... :smalleek:


Couldn't find Soul Splicing in my gamebook, or on d20. Is it 4.0, or a custom game mechanic?

Custom mechanic, apparently. ("Don't bother looking it up." (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0633.html))

[Laughing Dragon]

I don't think that the soul splice will be as short of a duration as the temptors implied for several reasons. The main one being that the 3 evil mages linked to V are being given "extra innings" to wreak evil on the mortal plane, they will not give that up without a fight. I believe that they will do whatever it takes to remain linked with V ... including cooperate! You don't get to be a mage by being stupid after all.

I also believe that (like Alia in the "Dune" series) they will get V's consent to "drive" from time to time; technically, as long as V consents he is in control. And just as happened to Alia, V will eventually lose hirself to the (stronger?) personalities that s/he cannot excape from.

Also, since V took a major step toward being of evil alignment (selfishly grasping for personal power veiled as an excuse to do "good" when a viable alternative existed) the "wicked chorus" in hir head will have an easier time influencing hir behavior.

I don't think that this will boil down to a "will save" like a dire charm ... this is something that V choose with full (or not) knowledge and malice aforethought. The "wicked chorus" will stick to V like cat hair to polyester; I think that it's quite likely that only V's (temporary) death will sever the connection. Whether anyone chooses to raise hir, or s/he desires to come back will be the real question.

[Kaed]

Given just how it's portrayed metaphysically, with the three souls chained to V rather than occupying the same body, it's probable that when the elf releases control they will simply lose connection, and be sent back to hell/abyss/hades. There are pretty hard mechanics in place about damned souls escaping their respective punishment (that being, that they usually can't), so I doubt once the splice is over they will be able to linger.

Heh, couldn't resist making a snazzy new avatar out of this, though.

[The Minx]

Given just how it's portrayed metaphysically, with the three souls chained to V rather than occupying the same body, it's probable that when the elf releases control they will simply lose connection, and be sent back to hell/abyss/hades. There are pretty hard mechanics in place about damned souls escaping their respective punishment (that being, that they usually can't), so I doubt once the splice is over they will be able to linger.

Heh, couldn't resist making a snazzy new avatar out of this, though.

It might be V who is chained to them, rather than the reverse. [EDIT: of course, the fiends claimed that V was in charge of the actions taken by the composite, but they never said anything about his being able to end the splice at any time... omitting details like that are what fiendish deals are all about.]

PS: you might want to be careful about using the artwork from the comic in making avatars, I'm not sure you're allowed to do that, and the Giant is very protective of his work. :smallsmile:

[David Argall]

We can be sure V will lose the connections some time soon. The story is rapidly over if she doesn't. It doesn't matter whether the evil mages or the fiends want it maintained. Story needs rule and so the meld is only short term.

As to how, and what happens next, this is guesswork. Possibilities...
1. V kills dragon and just gives up the power since the goal has been reached.
2. V kills dragon and his family. She gets so upset, she can't maintain concentration.
3. V kills dragon and then goes after Xykon, but is stopped by the fiends, who tell him some fact that distracts him too much to maintain concentration. [An almost defeated Xykon would be given incentive to get moving to the next gate and so might happen.]
4. V kills dragon and Xykon, but is conned by Redcloak into making a deal to control the next gate. The deal falls thru, and Xykon returns to unlife.
5. V kills dragon and then reunites the party, which convince her to end the meld.

Presumably V won't be happy about the end of the power, but may well be entirely normal, unless there is plot convenience to being sick, sleeping, etc. It is possible his robes will stay black, or white.

[Morgan Wick]

I believe that they will do whatever it takes to remain linked with V ... including cooperate!

Which gives a whole new meaning to V being the fiends' "proof-of-concept"...


We can be sure V will lose the connections some time soon. The story is rapidly over if she doesn't. It doesn't matter whether the evil mages or the fiends want it maintained. Story needs rule and so the meld is only short term.

It may last longer than you think, possibly into the next book. And weren't you the one so stuck-up on spoiler tags?


As to how, and what happens next, this is guesswork. Possibilities...
1. V kills dragon and just gives up the power since the goal has been reached. Unlikely. I'm certain there will be impact from the voices.
2. V kills dragon and his family. She gets so upset, she can't maintain concentration. Possible. EDIT: However, it probably means no long-term corruption. It could be a "white-robe" outcome where V decides power isn't worth it, or s/he takes his/her own life, or something.
3. V kills dragon and then goes after Xykon, but is stopped by the fiends, who tell him some fact that distracts him too much to maintain concentration. [An almost defeated Xykon would be given incentive to get moving to the next gate and so might happen.] This might be the most likely of your suggestions.
4. V kills dragon and Xykon, but is conned by Redcloak into making a deal to control the next gate. The deal falls thru, and Xykon returns to unlife. EDIT: The last half sentence may be more of a problem than you realize, though I'm not familiar with phylacteries or SoD. See below.
5. V kills dragon and then reunites the party, which convince her to end the meld. EDIT: This would be a deus ex machina way of reuniting the party, probably unnecessary with the Sending to Durkon, and wouldn't make much sense if it led to any long-term consequenses aside from V deciding not to go after ultimate arcane power anymore (ie, a white robe ending). However, it does fit with the reunion requiring someone to pay a steep price in War and XPs, as opposed to V's price being irrelevant to it. But remember, V had no intention of returning to Durkon or Elan (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0599.html) and "might feel moved to suggest a rendezvous with the two of you in a different location... but probably not." It's likelier that V tries to kill them ("destroy anyone who has ever slighted you") than reunites them with Haley and Co.
6. V kills dragon and goes after Xykon, but decides to join them instead. Rest proceeds as below, but this is unlikely because V and Xykon might be redundant, and V doesn't need them anyway (unless the voices have received word from the fiends that V is to help them at Girard's Gate).
7. As in 4, but the deal lasts all the way to the doorstep of Girard's Gate, at which point - as hinted by the Oracle - Belkar "causes V's death" somehow. I think it'll have something to do with showing his newfound "team spirit", and it may also lead to Belkar's own death. Perhaps he destroys the Gate and it kills them both (or even just V) the same way it killed Miko, or he just shoves him/her into the Gate/exposed rift, and (possibly) V makes sure (s)he takes Belkar with him/her. Someone, probably Elan, makes the point that in the end, Belkar, faking or not, was more good than V. (How the OOTS gets there in time is anyone's guess and may take a deus ex machina, so this is also unlikely.)
8. As in 5, but V is not convinced to end the meld, and either runs off to Girard's Gate, runs off to join Xykon (as in 6), or fights the party. If (s)he runs off directly to Girard's Gate, the OOTS has time to get there since V would need divine magic to do anything, and might not know that (assuming none of the spliced souls are considered to have it). EDIT: It's still unlikely, though, because the voices WILL get bored and convince V to run off and do something else. If V fights the party, either the meld ends on its own, Durkon or Elan try to rig up some sort of magic to distract V enough to end the meld, V gets killed, or most of the OOTS (or even just one member) dies before the meld ends or V gets killed. (How about V killing Belkar, then himself out of shame?) EDIT: V may also decide to run off and engage in his/her own (well, the voices') evil plans, forcing the OOTS - and possibly some of the villains - to try and stop him/her.
9. V kills dragon and reunites the party, but the party does not even know the meld exists (Durkon and Elan think it's a natural progression from what they saw when (s)he was on the boat) and thinks V's like this for good now. Book IV ends at this point. V teleports the party to Girard's Gate, but it becomes clear that V is Not Himself, especially if (s)he tries to con Durkon (and maybe even Elan, even though it wouldn't work) into helping him/her open the gate. The rest proceeds as in 7. Xykon and Redcloak might not even get involved at Girard's Gate, though the Linear Guild might.
10. As in 4, but V loses concentration, and THEN makes a deal with Redcloak to control the next gate, perhaps because Redcloak makes him/her believe it'll give him/her Ultimate Arcane Power again, or just because taking the deal made him/her irredeemably evil. (EDIT: This may be likelier than 4 because if V destroys Xykon's phylactery, can Redcloak piece it back together again?) In both 10 and 7, after V dies Redcloak may well try and swing a deal with the Linear Guild to make Nale high-level enough somehow to control Kraagor's Gate.
11. As in 7, 9, or 10, but neither V nor Belkar dies at Girard's Gate, V hangs on to the meld, and V takes off (with Redcloak in the case of 7 or 10) for Kraagor's Gate. Notes on 7 or 9 apply. Your prediction of only two more books after the current one suddenly becomes plausible. :)
12. As in 7, 9, or 10, but V at least (don't know about Belkar, for all we know the Oracle was just hinting about the "death" of the meld) does not die at Girard's Gate, but loses control of the meld.
EDIT: 13: V kills dragon, then goes after Durkon and Elan. The paladins manage to hold him/her off long enough to end the meld. Unlikely, but I'm throwing it out there.
EDIT: 14: As in 4, but instead of even considering Redcloak's deal s/he attacks instead, because s/he doesn't need the Snarl for anything.

[Kaytara]

A possibility for the Soul Splice:

Holding onto it is as difficult as the other three souls make it. They've been trapped in a punitive afterlife for who knows how long, and now they finally get the chance to semi-directly cause some havoc? I don't think they want the Soul Splice to end all that quickly, either.

However, if Vaarsuvius does something they disagree with - such as NOT listening to them and reducing the elven village to a pile of ash - they will rebel, either deliberately or unknowingly making it more difficult for V to hold on to them.
Since giving up that much power is likely pretty tough for someone like V, it would provide an incentive to do some evil to keep the souls happy and hold on to that power for a bit longer. This would be perfect for the fiends - not only will V be in major debt by the time the effect finally ends, they will also have gone a long way towards corrupting him.

[Volkov]

We can be sure V will lose the connections some time soon. The story is rapidly over if she doesn't. It doesn't matter whether the evil mages or the fiends want it maintained. Story needs rule and so the meld is only short term.

As to how, and what happens next, this is guesswork. Possibilities...
1. V kills dragon and just gives up the power since the goal has been reached.
2. V kills dragon and his family. She gets so upset, she can't maintain concentration.
3. V kills dragon and then goes after Xykon, but is stopped by the fiends, who tell him some fact that distracts him too much to maintain concentration. [An almost defeated Xykon would be given incentive to get moving to the next gate and so might happen.]
4. V kills dragon and Xykon, but is conned by Redcloak into making a deal to control the next gate. The deal falls thru, and Xykon returns to unlife.
5. V kills dragon and then reunites the party, which convince her to end the meld.

Presumably V won't be happy about the end of the power, but may well be entirely normal, unless there is plot convenience to being sick, sleeping, etc. It is possible his robes will stay black, or white.

Or 6. V kills the dragon, Xykon, Redcloak, The entire fleet, The Linear Guild, The Oracle Permanently, the entire party and the fiends use h** to lead the army to destroy the upper planes. And Elan and haley get their happy ending by being together forever in the chaotic good after life, until their souls are destroyed by armies of Demons, Devils, Yugoloths, Demodands, and What not.

[Blue Ghost]

The fiends made it sound like the Soul Splice simply ends when Vaarsuvius loses control, but they are fiends, after all. Perhaps when the Soul Splice "ends," it only means that it ceases functioning the way that the fiends promised. Then the evil souls will have full control of V's mind and body, perhaps eternally. Just a theory.

[Spiky]

Sounds like Doc Ock.

[Vaarsuvius4181]

being epic, he probably wont bomb a will save that he made when he was lvl (15)

[Krakesone@hotma]

The fiends clearly have an agenda- and it is revealed in strip #380, when we see that Sabine reports directly to them. In that strip she dashes off to the netherworld to inform them of what she learned about the gates. Clearly, when V loses control of it, the fiends will use hir to go for one of the gates, and with the power present in the soul splice, they should have no trouble manipulating it.

[hamishspence]

Gates need divine as well as arcane power for this.

[David Argall]

This is one of several points the fiends may well not be aware of.