Prophecy Interpretations

[Code Black]

This has probably been done to death, but I wanted to put my thoughts and analyses down on paper, so to speak, about best and worst effects of the various prophecies, all at once, altogether. I'm breaking down the wildest divergent ways the Oracle's words could have meant.

Anyway:

Elan's Prophecy:
General Summary: There will be a happy ending, for Elan at least.
Possible Meanings:

This seems straightforward. Elan gets a happy ending. Since Elan's ending could never be happy without Haley or, to a lesser extent, Roy, that pretty much clinches that they'll be reunited.

Of course, the circumstances of the reunion are unknown. Elan would be happy even facing certain death, if it meant he could spend his last moments with Haley. Ending could mean death, and just because Elan's ending is going will be happy, doesn't mean it won't be swift. Hell, it could even mean that they'll reunited in the afterlife, and life out eternity together, which would be happy for Elan but bittersweet for us.

Also, that "at least" gets me interested, as whether the Oracle is really a jackass or whether he's a trickster that still has the best of intentions. Technically, "at least" could mean anything, the way, if I said "Of all the people alive today, I, at least, will die in the next 500 years." Of course, unless the secret of immortality is discovered today and administered instantly, everyone alive today will have died at some point in the next 500 years, but my statement is still absolutely 100% true. If Oracle means well, and is actually telling the truth despite it's harsh nature, then it means that other characters won't get happy ends. If he's just ******* around with us, then we might not get anyone with a bad end anyway.

Roy
Summary: Resolved
Meanings: Roy proves the age old lesson: the smartest of people often make the stupidest of mistakes.

Haley:
Summary: Don't look a gift horse in the mouth (essentially)
Meanings: Ok, someone's who broke that comic's code is going to have to help me on what Haley's question is (after all, 42 is just a number without the question). If it was "how will I get my voice back?," then it's resolved. If it was essentially anything else, then that could have very well have been prophetic advice (rather than a prophecy) that could become meaningful over and over.

Belkar:
Summary: He will cause the death of either/or/and/etc Roy, Oracle, Miko, Miko's Horse, V.
Meanings: Technically resolved several times. There's still more deaths to be had, and since his question was so vague, there's really no way of knowing if it's finally over. However, Oracle seems to have phrased the answer the way he did because he knew the answer would be himself, so it is most probably over.

Summary: Belkar will draw his last breath, ever, by the end of the year (that's comics time, not real time Oracle fans)
Meanings: Ok, this also seems straightforward, but I started wondering on the nature of the word "death." Could it mean that the Belkar who was monstrous uncaring sociopath who killed without a reason or care died, making way for a Belkar with (fake) character development and a more reasonable personality? And then I noticed the comment about Belkar probably wanting to have his life insurance paid up... so... never mind.

V
Summary: Everyone knows what it is, so I won't repeat it
Meanings: Resolved. His right words to the right person were words of self assurance which, in the right context (or for the reasons), would have probably given V more heroic resolve. However, the wrong reasons were the preservation of one's ego even above the safety of one's family (note, the darker path, as always, is much easier than the path away from evil). Also, right could mean a whole lot of things, and probably means "right" the way "open sesame" was the "right" phrase to open the lair of the Forty Thieves, rather than being the best choice to do so.

Again, resolved.

Durkon
Summary: Durkon will finally return to his homeland... posthumously.
Meanings: This is the most definitive prophecy that any of the characters got. The phrasing of the question, and the finality of the answer, make it clear that Durkon will only return to the Dwarf lands after death, not one or multiple times before.

On the other hand, Durkon assumed he be given a heroes burial next to his father and grandfather, which wasn't alluded to. A particularly cruel interpretation would be that he dies at sea and his body drifts to the Dwarf lands, but I'm pretty much for Durkon getting his honorable, bittersweet ending, because he deserves it.




So, what do you guys think?

[hamishspence]

nice. Spoilers for Origin- and continued comment:

"When Durkon next returns home, he will bring disaster for us all"

Which raises interesting questions as to what will happen, and how Durkon will return.

I wonder if there will be a fight at Kraagor's Gate, Durkon killed there, and the order flee with his body, and something really dangerous in pursuit, to Durkon's old home.?

Origin pics show it, like the region around Kraagor's gate, as very snowy.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

Actually, I was wondering this:

What if the Oracle was messing with the readers, and not Belkar? While the first three were listed in less likely order, there is still wiggle room to deny that Belkar caused any of the deaths. Afterall, Roy jumped on his own, he wasn't pushed. While Belkar contributed to his death, I'm in the camp that says Xykon killed Roy by blasting him with a Meteor Swarm, then let Roy fall to his death. In fact, Roy jumping onto a flying zombie dragon without even a ring of feather fall make me argue that Roy was more responsable for his death than Belkar. The Belkster comes in third! Butenough of that...

What if Belkar and Vaarsuvius are doomed to kill each other?

I'm REALLY not sure how a Ranger/Barbarian would be able to get close enough to Kill a CR22 (best guess) Composite Wizard, especially one who really HATES Belkar. But if anyone can figure out a way, especially using his "I'm pretending to be good" powers, it'll be Belkar.

"As for the elf... you kill her by ramming your arm down hir throat and choking hir to death."

Maybe not, but it's something to think about.

[hamishspence]

As for the elf.....
"the elf dies from food poisoning, caused by eating you, so technicially, you do kill her."

A Warhammer short story made me think of this- a slaan prophesying that a very incompetant skink would kill a chaos warlord and save their city- skink charges warlord, is killed, cooked, and eaten, and turns out to be a very poisonous main course.

[B. Dandelion]

This has probably been done to death, but I wanted to put my thoughts and analyses down on paper, so to speak, about best and worst effects of the various prophecies, all at once, altogether. I'm breaking down the wildest divergent ways the Oracle's words could have meant.

It's a good idea for an independent topic.


Elan's Prophecy:
General Summary: There will be a happy ending, for Elan at least.
Possible Meanings:

This seems straightforward. Elan gets a happy ending. Since Elan's ending could never be happy without Haley or, to a lesser extent, Roy, that pretty much clinches that they'll be reunited.

Of course, the circumstances of the reunion are unknown. Elan would be happy even facing certain death, if it meant he could spend his last moments with Haley. Ending could mean death, and just because Elan's ending is going will be happy, doesn't mean it won't be swift. Hell, it could even mean that they'll reunited in the afterlife, and life out eternity together, which would be happy for Elan but bittersweet for us.

Also, that "at least" gets me interested, as whether the Oracle is really a jackass or whether he's a trickster that still has the best of intentions. Technically, "at least" could mean anything, the way, if I said "Of all the people alive today, I, at least, will die in the next 500 years." Of course, unless the secret of immortality is discovered today and administered instantly, everyone alive today will have died at some point in the next 500 years, but my statement is still absolutely 100% true. If Oracle means well, and is actually telling the truth despite it's harsh nature, then it means that other characters won't get happy ends. If he's just ******* around with us, then we might not get anyone with a bad end anyway.

The Giant elaborates a bit on Elan's prophecy in War and XPs -- it's both a warning and a reassurance. Things will get grim at time, but it will work out in the end. Whatever specifics are going into that, we don't know exactly.



Roy
Summary: Resolved
Meanings: Roy proves the age old lesson: the smartest of people often make the stupidest of mistakes.

Don't forget the earlier prophecy: he asked where Xykon is and was told "in his throne room." So with this one he was both learning from his past mistake and making another mistake altogether.



Haley:
Summary: Don't look a gift horse in the mouth (essentially)
Meanings: Ok, someone's who broke that comic's code is going to have to help me on what Haley's question is (after all, 42 is just a number without the question). If it was "how will I get my voice back?," then it's resolved. If it was essentially anything else, then that could have very well have been prophetic advice (rather than a prophecy) that could become meaningful over and over.

Haley's prophecy is really interesting to me in that it's completely different from all the others. The Oracle gives literal answers to everyone else, but "don't look a gift horse in the mouth" is entirely metaphorical. Moreover, the others who ask "how" they will see a a specific outcome are told what they will be doing... while Haley is told what not to do.

I'm not sure if this was a deliberate break in the pattern or not. The result was that Haley did not do something specifically, it was that she affected a certain attitude. Thus leading to the chain of events that cured her aphasia.


Belkar:
Summary: He will cause the death of either/or/and/etc Roy, Oracle, Miko, Miko's Horse, V.
Meanings: Technically resolved several times. There's still more deaths to be had, and since his question was so vague, there's really no way of knowing if it's finally over. However, Oracle seems to have phrased the answer the way he did because he knew the answer would be himself, so it is most probably over.

That's how I see it too. We can't confirm with 100% certainty that Roy, Miko, Windstriker (or V, sometime in the future) could have qualified, but the implication is otherwise.


Summary: Belkar will draw his last breath, ever, by the end of the year (that's comics time, not real time Oracle fans)
Meanings: Ok, this also seems straightforward, but I started wondering on the nature of the word "death." Could it mean that the Belkar who was monstrous uncaring sociopath who killed without a reason or care died, making way for a Belkar with (fake) character development and a more reasonable personality? And then I noticed the comment about Belkar probably wanting to have his life insurance paid up... so... never mind.

Again, that was how I saw it too. The potential trickery of the specific wording is severely undercut by those earlier remarks. It means what it sounds like it means.


V
Summary: Everyone knows what it is, so I won't repeat it
Meanings: Resolved. His right words to the right person were words of self assurance which, in the right context (or for the reasons), would have probably given V more heroic resolve. However, the wrong reasons were the preservation of one's ego even above the safety of one's family (note, the darker path, as always, is much easier than the path away from evil). Also, right could mean a whole lot of things, and probably means "right" the way "open sesame" was the "right" phrase to open the lair of the Forty Thieves, rather than being the best choice to do so.

Sorry, I don't agree. Like with Belkar's prophecy, there's good reason to think it has been fulfilled but there is not absolutely definitive proof. This seems to bother people more than the dispute with Belkar's prophecy, possibly because just about no one is arguing that Belkar will certainly go on to kill V, even though the inclusive nature of his answer does not rule out the possibility.

Nonetheless, it would be nice to see even token acknowledgment paid to the fact that, like Belkar, there is reason to dispute the matter, even if it's grossly semantic and nitpicky in their view. "Mutually inclusive" allows V to say four words here and four words later. Moreover, the bit with the orbs was seen by some, including me, as a rather LOUD addition to the scene drawing specific attention to the fact that V's ultimate (as opposed to penultimate) step in acquiring power was to TOUCH something, not SAY something.


Durkon
Summary: Durkon will finally return to his homeland... posthumously.
Meanings: This is the most definitive prophecy that any of the characters got. The phrasing of the question, and the finality of the answer, make it clear that Durkon will only return to the Dwarf lands after death, not one or multiple times before.

On the other hand, Durkon assumed he be given a heroes burial next to his father and grandfather, which wasn't alluded to. A particularly cruel interpretation would be that he dies at sea and his body drifts to the Dwarf lands, but I'm pretty much for Durkon getting his honorable, bittersweet ending, because he deserves it.

Posthumously means "after death," but doesn't rule out the possibility of resurrection. Durkon is satisfied with his ending so long as it leads to him being buried in his homeland -- meaning he's content with the worst possible scenario. There is also another prophecy Durkon is included with in the prequel Origin book, which complicates the matter some as it also relates to his return.

[Kaytara]

Just thought I'd throw this in about Belkar's death prophecy:

The Oracle never uses the word "die" when talking about his future. He gives lots of round-about hints at his death, but never anything direct. This leads me to believe that the old-fashioned literal meaning of "die" is not applicable, otherwise the Oracle would say that.

[Joran]

Haley:
Summary: Don't look a gift horse in the mouth (essentially)
Meanings: Ok, someone's who broke that comic's code is going to have to help me on what Haley's question is (after all, 42 is just a number without the question). If it was "how will I get my voice back?," then it's resolved. If it was essentially anything else, then that could have very well have been prophetic advice (rather than a prophecy) that could become meaningful over and over.


Haley said, "What can I do to restore my speech?" and so it's completely resolved, huzzah.

[Oberon]

Actually, I was wondering this:

What if the Oracle was messing with the readers, and not Belkar? While the first three were listed in less likely order, there is still wiggle room to deny that Belkar caused any of the deaths. Afterall, Roy jumped on his own, he wasn't pushed. While Belkar contributed to his death, I'm in the camp that says Xykon killed Roy by blasting him with a Meteor Swarm, then let Roy fall to his death. In fact, Roy jumping onto a flying zombie dragon without even a ring of feather fall make me argue that Roy was more responsable for his death than Belkar. The Belkster comes in third! Butenough of that...

What if Belkar and Vaarsuvius are doomed to kill each other?

I'm REALLY not sure how a Ranger/Barbarian would be able to get close enough to Kill a CR22 (best guess) Composite Wizard, especially one who really HATES Belkar. But if anyone can figure out a way, especially using his "I'm pretending to be good" powers, it'll be Belkar.

"As for the elf... you kill her by ramming your arm down hir throat and choking hir to death."

Maybe not, but it's something to think about.

I'm pretty darn sure that Belkar was directly responsible for killing the oracle (especially the way that particular comic was worded "I wasn't buying those other explainations either") hence, prophesy fulfilled.

[Code Black]

Haley said, "What can I do to restore my speech?" and so it's completely resolved, huzzah.

Ah, thanks for clearing that up.

[David Argall]

The Oracle never uses the word "die" when talking about his future. He gives lots of round-about hints at his death, but never anything direct. This leads me to believe that the old-fashioned literal meaning of "die" is not applicable, otherwise the Oracle would say that.

Silence does not give consent. It is quite dangerous to assume anything from its absence. And so far there is no sign of the Oracle's answers being other than direct [helpful, no, but direct even if they go only an inch in the direction when the journey is miles long]. Also the Oracle is in part writer to reader conversation and any attempt at misdirection by the Oracle undercuts that communication.

[kusje]

Posthumously means "after death," but doesn't rule out the possibility of resurrection. Durkon is satisfied with his ending so long as it leads to him being buried in his homeland -- meaning he's content with the worst possible scenario. There is also another prophecy Durkon is included with in the prequel Origin book, which complicates the matter some as it also relates to his return.

What if..... Durkon gets killed in battle; OOTS doesn't have anyone close by who can resurrect him so they bring him home or to the next gate in his homeland (prophecy fulfilled). Xykon follows them there, kills tons of dwarves (prophecy fulfilled!) and feeds Durkon's body to the MITD who eats it since its not a child.

Worst possible scenario!