Is my adventure too hard?

[mr.fizzypop]

Currently I've been DMing a 3.5 DnD group and I was wondering if I'm being too hard on my PCs. So far:

-One person has lost an arm.
-Another was turned into a woman(belt of gender changing).
-And Another had his rib cage broken, his back brutally impaled, and lost certain man parts.

And this is just the start of the adventure. But don't take me as "out to get" the third one, he did all that on his own, I just let it happen. He just had the great idea of jumping down the cliff...

[Starbuck_II]

Currently I've been DMing a 3.5 DnD group and I was wondering if I'm being too hard on my PCs. So far:

-One person has lost an arm.
-Another was turned into a woman(belt of gender changing).
-And Another had his rib cage broken, his back brutally impaled, and lost certain man parts.

And this is just the start of the adventure. But don't take me as "out to get" the third one, he did all that on his own, I just let it happen. He just had the great idea of jumping down the cliff...

Okay, how does some lose an arm in D&D?

[FoE]

Currently I've been DMing a 3.5 DnD group and I was wondering if I'm being too hard on my PCs. So far:

-One person has lost an arm.
-Another was turned into a woman.
-And Another had his rib cage broken, his back brutally impaled, and lost certain man parts.

What, in real life? Then yes.

D&D and dismemberment do not mix, let alone forced sex change.

[Wafflecart]

sounds fine to me, but im a fan of DM vs. PC...if your players complain, pick up paranoia, and show them a real "good time"

[Fjolnir]

there are ways to lose body parts, such as a vorpal weapon, though I don't know if there are any other dismembering weapons in the world of D&D. Though I would assume you can Sunder limbs, at the dm's discretion

[mr.fizzypop]

What, in real life? Then yes.

D&D and dismemberment do not mix, let alone forced sex change.

Not really forced, he put on the belt.


Okay, how does some lose an arm in D&D?

He stuck his hand in -200 degrees celcius water, and when he put a torch up to to un-freeze it, and his hand cracked apart. Lets just say thats part of how the third person lost certain man parts.

The problem is I've been reading too much about CoC and I think it's rubbing off in my DMing.

[Assassin89]

Currently I've been DMing a 3.5 DnD group and I was wondering if I'm being too hard on my PCs. So far:

-One person has lost an arm.
-Another was turned into a woman(belt of gender changing).
-And Another had his rib cage broken, his back brutally impaled, and lost certain man parts.

And this is just the start of the adventure. But don't take me as "out to get" the third one, he did all that on his own, I just let it happen. He just had the great idea of jumping down the cliff...

One of my fellow party members, a human 4th level Psychic Warrior, almost lost a leg due to an encounter with a trap, but the DM ruled that with two successful heal checks and proper healing, the party could save the limb.

The third one is not being too hard, as it punishes stupidity. The first can be easily fixed with regeneration. I don't understand the second because I do not know what book that belt comes from.

[mr.fizzypop]

Well its real name is the "Girdle of Feminimity/Mascullinity" and is in 2E and OoTS

[RS14]

Well, there are other factors, such as how these things happened. Did the character lose an arm to e.g. a safe falling out of the sky? Or did he stick it down a lion's throat as a stunt? There are legitimate reasons to deprive a character of an arm, and there are illegitimate reasons.

Also, what do the players think of this? Seriously, ask them. They'll be much better judges than we are.

Edit:

He stuck his hand in -200 degrees celcius water, and when he put a torch up to to un-freeze it, and his hand cracked apart. Lets just say thats part of how the third person lost certain man parts.

WATER DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY! Or, it does, but we call it ice.

However yes, provided you warned him that what he was about to do was stupid, that sounds fine.

[Lycan 01]

It all sounds just fine to me. If the characters are faced with a situation that should cost them a limb, which is worse? Being "mean" and making them lose the limb, or being "soft" and allowing them to keep it, even though they shouldn't?


Which reminds me, what are the rules for dismemberment in RPGs? Specifically, Star Wars SAGA. :smallconfused:

[Mando Knight]

WATER DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY! Or, it does, but we call it ice.

Water cannot work that way... unless you put it under pressures of several thousand megapascals. Maybe. Minus 200 Celsius is totally freakin' cold. Like, this is seriously the Elemental Plane of Cold cold. It's 73 Kelvin. That's colder than the coldest natural cold on Earth by about 110 degrees. My point is, it's really really cold. The character should consider himself lucky that he survived that. It would cause pretty instant frostbite.

[Mushroom Ninja]

-One person has lost an arm.


The two-weapon fighter in one of my groups lost an arm. lulz ensued till he got a regeneration cast.

[mr.fizzypop]

WATER DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY!

I do realize that...but this is a fantasy game, so maybe it was cursed water that is meant to freeze flesh, and destroys the frozen area if in contact with heat. And the only way for it to defrost is over time...or a dispel magic or something.

But the point is I screwed up and I realize that now.

[Inyssius Tor]

Ask your players. They're the only ones who know, being the players with whom you are playing and all. Their opinion counts for everything; ours, for nothing.


I would love your game. I like the "old school", death-is-lurking-around-any-corner style.

[Izmir Stinger]

Water cannot work that way... unless you put it under pressures of several thousand megapascals. Maybe. Minus 200 Celsius is totally freakin' cold. Like, this is seriously the Elemental Plane of Cold cold. It's 73 Kelvin. That's colder than the coldest natural cold on Earth by about 110 degrees. My point is, it's really really cold. The character should consider himself lucky that he survived that. It would cause pretty instant frostbite.

And the pressure it would have had to be under to remain liquid at that temperature would crush everyone.

Science + Magic = the not the making of the sense.

[TheCountAlucard]

Which reminds me, what are the rules for dismemberment in RPGs?

Well, except for a number of houserules, and specifically the entry for vorpal weapons, D&D doesn't have any rules I've seen concerning losing limbs, which makes the regeneration spell a lot more pointless.


Specifically, Star Wars SAGA. :smallconfused:

There's a Jedi-only ability one can take that allows you to maim a foe instead of killing them.

[theMycon]

WATER DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY!
First- Cool! I learned how to do a Strikethrough! AND you inspired me to learn how to do superscript! I can express large numbers accurately without precision now. Thanks to you. You're awesome.

Second- if the molecule weren't bent it probably. It's so light that, your average nonmetal (such as an equal pressure of O2- melting point of -215 C) should be fluid at that temperature (Methane, also, has -185 C). It's only the funny bond shape that makes it solid & liquid so warm. It's possible tha I'm okay it's just I don't controll my breathing anymore. My body subcontracted it to this guy in pittsburgh and he breathes for me because it's too weak where I'm att they saw one & no-one had an alchemists lab around to tell them it wasn't water.

------------------------
EDIT:
First B: I have no idea where that came from... but I find it so surreal and hilarious that I'm not going to touch that post. I think my subconcious is channeling Robert A. Wilson. fnord

Second B: I chose to reply to that post in particular only because of the coding I learned. The "liquid states of other molecules" was meant as a comment to the general public/idea to the OP if his players call him on it.

[RS14]

I do realize that...but this is a fantasy game, so maybe it was cursed water that is meant to freeze flesh, and destroys the frozen area if in contact with heat. And the only way for it to defrost is over time...or a dispel magic or something.

But the point is I screwed up and I realize that now.

Woah, sorry, I didn't mean for you to take that too seriously. I figured that if you understand Celsius, you know the freezing temperature of water. :smallwink:

Yeah, it makes sense. I can't imagine any reason for your player to have stuck his hand in it, so as far as I can tell, he's the one who screwed up. As long as you made it clear that it was not just regular water...

[Jack_Simth]

Well its real name is the "Girdle of Feminimity/Mascullinity" and is in 2E and OoTS
And while it was removed as a specific item somewhere along the line to 3.5, it's still a random drawback on the cursed item tables ... in 3.5, at least; haven't checked 4.0.

[Leon]

And while it was removed as a specific item somewhere along the line to 3.5, it's still a random drawback on the cursed item tables ... in 3.5, at least; haven't checked 4.0.

i had a Crossbow with that particular effect on it floating around one of my campaigns, it'd show up from time to time in the hands of many different creatures

[Oracle_Hunter]

It all sounds just fine to me. If the characters are faced with a situation that should cost them a limb, which is worse? Being "mean" and making them lose the limb, or being "soft" and allowing them to keep it, even though they shouldn't?

Considering your avowed interest in Call of Cthulhu, I'm gonna say this is much like Belkar agreeing with your idea :smallwink:

In all seriousness, HP makes specific limb damage like you've specified illogical. In the same way that a dagger to the heart isn't instantly fatal by RAW (Coup de Grace rules) and folks don't find their limbs shattered whenever they face ogres, fall damage doesn't cause you to loose your dangly bits. Basically what you've done is bypassed the HP system, and there is very little by RAW that can account for what you've done.

Does that make the adventure "too hard?" No, but it is a highly non-standard way to run 3E (and possibly D&D in general). If your players were expecting this, then it's all fair game - but judging by their behavior, I doubt it was.

If I were you, I'd ask them how they feel about it. Chances are they are shocked and surprised - if so, then I'd allow them to regenerate their losses and try to keep things a bit more in line with RAW (or let them know the rest of the campaign is going to be that way).

Oh, but keep the sex change. Girdles of Femininity/Masculinity are totally fair game - and hilarious! :smallbiggrin:

[FoE]

Remember one thing above all else: making your players lose limbs is a surefire way to make your players launch into Monty Python references. :smalltongue:

[Oracle_Hunter]

Remember one thing above all else: making your players lose limbs is a surefire way to make your players launch into Monty Python references. :smalltongue:

Wait wait wait.

Are you saying there are things that won't launch D&D players into Monty Python references? :smallconfused:

[Satyr]

The most important question is: Are you confident in your playing style? Everything else comes later. If you think it works well for your group, it probably does. You are the Gamemaster, it is your task to determine the moot and atmosphere of the game and if you are content with it - and your players do not violently disagree- it doesn't matter at all how the game is supposed to be played.

If you are going for the hard style, remember that doesn't work too well without being fair as well. Do not punish the characters without reason and always offer an alternative way that allow to circumvent the most drastic consequences.

[Tempest Fennac]

I'd agree that house rules involving mutillation should be agreed on by the players due to how much it can affect gameplay (to be fair, I hate the idea of RPing anything like that so I keep it out of games which I'm DMing).The sex change belt isn't really a problem, but I need more information on the last one with the mechanical effects of his injuries to comment on it. I'm not a Monty Python fan so I never use references to him either.

[FoE]

Wait wait wait.

Are you saying there are things that won't launch D&D players into Monty Python references? :smallconfused:

I try to head these things off with the occassional swallow carrying a coconut flying overhead. :smalltongue:

[TheCountAlucard]

In the last session of my current game, the first-level PCs decided to face a cockatrice. Surprisingly, they kept making their Fortitude saves every time the cockatrice bit them, but I nonetheless decided that the wounds it inflicted turned to stone, so that the PCs who were bitten had several tiny stone bite marks imbedded in their skin.

[Drider]

In the last session of my current game, the first-level PCs decided to face a cockatrice. Surprisingly, they kept making their Fortitude saves every time the cockatrice bit them, but I nonetheless decided that the wounds it inflicted turned to stone, so that the PCs who were bitten had several tiny stone bite marks imbedded in their skin.

if they had gotten enough, would you give them some bonus...like partial stone skin? as long as they can still move, they should be okay.

[Dixieboy]

[s]

WATER DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY! Or, it does, but we call it ice.



NO U :smallfurious:

A liquid flowing at high speed does not freeze until it reaches a sufficiently lower temperature, this is basic chemistry, which you failed at. Also magic
(Using laws of physic it would move hella fast though)

[theMycon]

A liquid flowing at high speed does not freeze until it reaches a sufficiently lower temperature

Such as 73 K, a good 200 K below the normal freezing temperature, where even oxygen is liquid and very nearly solid?

(I'm starting to like my "river of methane" idea- that's right near the melting/freezing point, so it should still be fluid if moving. They bring the torch nearby and... well, it'd just be a stinky mess. Wiki sez it won't explode in solid or liquid form unless it's under a pressure of at least 4 ATM. But we could say some boiled/sublimated and THAT went boom.)

[Threeshades]

When I realize ive gone too hard on my players or when factors out of their control deal damage to them they don't deserve (I already accidentally killed two of the same player's characters, both of them were monks, so I think it's not entirely my fault :smallwink: ), well if something like that happens I give them an easy way out. When I accidentally kill a playercharacter early on the first quest, they automatically return to the next town and get a cleric.

In these cases I give them discount healing, in exchange for a side-quest.

Similarly i would deal with undeservingly lost body parts.

Though the belt of gender change is a classic, and people who put on unidentified cursed belts deserve it.

[Dixieboy]

Such as 73 K, a good 200 K below the normal freezing temperature, where even oxygen is liquid and very nearly solid?


Fast enough and it won't freeze, 'tis true.

[Premier]

While it's impossible to tell authoritatively from such brief descriptions, it looks to me like the harm was a result of the players' stupidity, so it's all good.

Freezing water - I assume there was some sort of warning, like the surroundings being strangely cold with no explanation, or icy steam arising, or dead bodies, or something. If so, it was the players fault for ignoring such signs and just sticking his hand in without any precautions.

Well, actually... I guess if you stuck your hand in liquid oxygen, it would hurt like hell immediately, so one could argue that the PC should have felt pain as soon as his fingers were in, this giving him a chance to recoil - unless he explicitly stated that he's plunging his arm in.

Gender changing - Fair enough as long as your game provides the PCs with some way of identifying cursed items - a sage in town who works for money, or a spell to that end, etc..

Off the cliff - Personally, I would have halted the game for a moment and asked "Just what were you expecting to happen to your character when he jumps off a cliff XX meters tall? Seriously, this is not a rhetorical question; I'd genuinely like to know what you were thinking." In other words, perfectly fine ruling, assuming the cliff WAS that tall.

[Yukitsu]

As an aside, my DM uses the hackmaster tables for dealing damage to specific body parts with the caveat that targeting parts gives massive penalties, and only rarely gives a good return on the investment. These rules would have been fine had our DM not banned the regenerate spell. Related to that aside, the party lost several limbs during that campaign, and self decapitation came into effect once. Please note that this wasn't due to player stupidity, it's just the way the dice were rolled.

So no, PCs doing dumb things and getting punished is fine. :smalltongue:

[quick_comment]

Fast enough and it won't freeze, 'tis true.

No, its not. Fast flowing water doesnt freeze because its moving too fast to cool to ambient temperatures before it moves to a warmer place. Freezing is entirely due to microscopic properties, while bulk flow is a macroscopic property.