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theonesin
2009-03-06, 03:35 PM
After my character died in the current campaign, and I decided I wanted to play a Warlock, the DM asks if we want to play a 4e campaign instead, and I'm thinking of sticking to playing a Warlock. I'm not too familiar with it though, so I'm looking for advice on how to make one.

We're starting at level 10 and are given 10,000GP and we can have 2 items that add up to level 10 and any +2 armor we can get.

Asbestos
2009-03-06, 06:56 PM
That's a bizzaro starting package...

Well, what are you looking for in your Warlock?

kieza
2009-03-06, 07:08 PM
I don't have too much experience making characters, but the gist of the Warlock is this:

--Infernal Pact gives you higher defenses and temp hitpoints.
--Fey Pact gives you more evasive ability.
--Star Pact gives you abilities that inflict negative conditions.

You can choose any powers from the Warlock's list, not just the ones from your pact, but they tend to run on different primary stats. (Con for infernal, Cha for fey, both for star.)

The one warlock that was in a campaign I ran was fey pact, and while he was fragile, he also did lots of damage. He had a fun trick at level 6 which was to wait until the fighter was in the middle of the enemy, use Fey Switch (Level 6 utility, switch places with ally) and Otherwind Stride (Level 3 encounter, attack vs. every target in close burst 1, then teleport out). He wound up doing decent damage to multiple targets, and ended several squares away.

EDIT: Yes, that is bizarre starting equipment. Normal for level 10 is 3 items of your choice, of maximum levels 9, 10, and 11, and about 5000 gold.

theonesin
2009-03-06, 08:07 PM
I've been looking at different threads online, and I'm definitely looking at being a Star Pact Warlock, either Half-Elf or Tiefling race. The DM has approved of other sources like the Forgotten Realms Player's Guide, which opens up the Dark Pact for use, as well as Dragon 366, which has a Paragon feat that allows Tiefling warlocks to gain a second Pact. I'm not sure which other Pact would go well with Star though.

Tiki Snakes
2009-03-06, 08:07 PM
Flavourwise, if it's any help deciding -

The Fey pact has you serving either some kind of 'Archfey', the feywild's equivelant of a demon prince, a powerful and whimsical entity that could be anything from a powerful eldarin to an amorphous nature spirit. Trickery, deception, and dangerous charm.

The Infernal Pact is probably the 'classic' pact. A dark deal putting an Infernal being as your patron. Fire and brimstone, and very much about the whole unnerving and violent side of sinister. I say classic, because it is basically the type of pact that the original Tiefling pact is implied to be, a pact with a devil or devils.

The Star Pact is an interesting one, being as it is often much more indirect. It is all about having made bargains or so on with impossible Elder Beings (Probably from the Far Realm) or having tapped the power of such entities via the true names of insane stars, cold and distant. It's about dread words and hideous lovecraftian prophesy. Madness and Fear.

And then there's the Dark Pact, which I know nothing about and is largely irrelevant unless you're playing the 4th ed forgotten realms, which is where it's detailed. :) Possibly a demonic themed pact? It certainly gives you some way to 'feed' off of the energies of Death, etc.


For my money, the flavour implied by the pact is as important, if not more so, than the actual stats and abilities it gives you. I'd say there's plenty of room for reflavouring, of course.

[edit - Ninja'd by the OP. Har!]

NecroRebel
2009-03-06, 08:13 PM
As far as equipment goes, you're going to want at least leather armor, or pick up Hide Proficiency if you're going Infernalock and have the Str for it. Warlocks in general tend to be relatively fragile even in comparison with Wizards or other Strikers because they don't have an AC-boosting stat as a primary, so getting the best armor you can helps your survivability a lot.

You can buy a Magic Rod +3 for 9000gp. This is actually a pretty good investment for you, as while it limits your other item choices you then have more reliable hit rates and higher damage. If you don't go for this, do count on spending at least 6 of your item levels or 1800gp on a +2 rod. Anything less will start to eat into your expected hit rate, which for a striker is a bad thing.

Another thing you should put high priority on is an amulet, cape, or other neckpiece +2, to aid your survivability more. This will mean, again, 6 levels or 1800 gp.

For spending your gold, either invest everything in one huge item like the aforementioned +3 Magic Rod or several smaller items. In the latter case, anything over level 8 is probably too expensive. Amulets and implements should be no lower than 6, as that's the cutoff for +2. Anything and everything else, though, you should look for useful abilities at any level. Remember, there's no penalty for having level 1 items at level 10, and they're dirt cheap for you to boot! Having a half-dozen low-level magic items, particularly ones which don't require a daily item use to make use of, can increase your versatility dramatically.



As far as powers go, it's very difficult to go wrong as long as you stay within one primary attack stat. This does mean that the Star pact is somewhat weaker than the others, as it is often impossible to both take advantage of the pact bonuses and have no off-stat attacks, but the others are relatively easy to manage. Also, do pay attention to cross-pact powers when you're choosing them, particularly utilities, as sometimes there is a power in another pact that is strictly better than ones in your pact.

It is possible to manage 2 primary attack stats, mind you, but it's somewhat more difficult, you'll likely have lower hit% (+1 to hit means a lot when you're only hitting 50% of the time), and the secondary effects of powers keyed off of pacts usually reference Intelligence, which you generally have to sacrifice to keep 2 primaries up.

Asbestos
2009-03-06, 08:21 PM
And then there's the Dark Pact, which I know nothing about and is largely irrelevant unless you're playing the 4th ed forgotten realms, which is where it's detailed. :) Possibly a demonic themed pact? It certainly gives you some way to 'feed' off of the energies of Death, etc.


No reason Dark Pact couldn't be adapted for non-FR settings.

Dark Pact is poison/necrotic/psychic damage heavy, so if you go up against undead a lot, you might be regretting your pact decision. However, its Pact Boon let's it lay down a decent amount of hurt, and some spells can be a huge source of damage if your party is willing to take a little bit of damage to help you boost them.

Dark Pact might go decent with Star Pact, mechanically any pact does thanks to the MADness of Star Pact, but since Dark Pact also involves faceless horrors it fits with flavor a bit too.

Asbestos
2009-03-06, 08:22 PM
As far as equipment goes, you're going to want at least leather armor, or pick up Hide Proficiency if you're going Infernalock and have the Str for it. Warlocks in general tend to be relatively fragile even in comparison with Wizards or other Strikers because they don't have an AC-boosting stat as a primary, so getting the best armor you can helps your survivability a lot.


Warlocks are less fragile than people think since they can easily have concealment every round.

theonesin
2009-03-06, 08:48 PM
Hmm... Due to how much it needs those two stats, I'm thinking that I'll go with Half-Elf with the Star Pact. Reading up more on it, I don't think I'm too fond of the Dark Pact's Pact Boon.

Jokes
2009-03-06, 09:01 PM
Also, Twofold Pact no longer requires Tiefling, according to the Compendium. In the magazine, the prerequisites allowed for any tiefling to multiclass to warlock and pick up a new at will power. It now only requires "11th Level, Eldritch Pact class feature."

theonesin
2009-03-06, 09:10 PM
Compendium? What is that exactly?

NecroRebel
2009-03-06, 09:14 PM
Warlocks are less fragile than people think since they can easily have concealment every round.

Less fragile than people think perhaps, but still fragile. Given 14 Int at level 1 puts them equal to an 18 Dex Rogue in Leather or 16 Dex Ranger with Hide and only 2 ahead of an 18 Int Wizard (who might well pick up leather proficiency as well). The Rogue and Wizard, at least, will be putting every stat boost into their primary attack stat, which will in turn improve AC. The same is more likely true of the Warlock's secondary (or tertiary in case of Starlocks), which causes their AC to drop behind.

Other defenses they're consistently on par or ahead on due to the attack penalty concealment gives. And of course this all assumes that the warlocks can move 3 every turn. Immobilizing, slowing, stunning, dazing, grabbing, or surrounding the warlock thus also significantly penalizes their defense more than anyone else (though the last they're also usually better equipped to escape). Further, this means they can't gain additional benefits from concealment like everyone else (also of note is the 18th level feet slot item, Phantom Chaussures, which grant the same ability as Warlocks have, and the 27th level ring, Shadow Band, which grants concealment perpetually; both from the Adventurer's Vault).

Edit:
Compendium? What is that exactly?

The Dragon Compendium. Dragon Magazine is a magazine published by WotC and over the months and years has held a massive amount of extra material for WotC products, including D&D. The Compendium is a book in which much of this extra material is collected and reprinted for easier reference, and includes errata and such on said material.

Jokes
2009-03-06, 09:40 PM
Compendium? What is that exactly?

http://www.wizards.com/dndinsider/compendium/database.aspx

A lot of it requires a DDI subscription, but it has all the up to date information on classes, feats etc. I don't know why Twofold Pact isn't available free, since it was in a free edition :smallconfused:

Twofold Pact was also changed in the compilation for 366 (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drtoc/366).

Oracle_Hunter
2009-03-06, 09:58 PM
Wow, that's some weird requirements - does your DM know about the suggestions for equipping high-level characters in the DMG? It usually goes 1 item of LV+1, 1 item of LV, 1 item of LV-1, and gold equivalent to LV-1.

Anyhoo, let's see what we can do with this.


STATS
What kind of stat generator are you using - Standard Array or point buy? Either way, you're going to be very MAD unless you decide to specialize in CON or CHA; you can take Encounter, Utility and Daily powers which are not of your pact so this is quite doable.

A side effect of MAD is that you probably won't have a free 13 to throw into STR for armor feats. If you're willing to hang back a bit, your low armor isn't going to matter that much, but for a more in-your-face Warlock, Light Shield and Hide proficiencies are pretty key.

POWERS
For the Starlock, there are lots of possibilities, but here are some I've thought up:
- Mind Crush: this build specializes in attacks that lower Will defenses and then uses Will-based attacks that control his opponents. This is a CHA focused build, using a mixture of Star and Fey pact powers.
- Chessmaster: this build specializes in powers that move and immobilize enemies, mixed in with some nasty zones that he can move folks into. This is a CON focused build, using a mixture of Stat and Infernal pact powers.

Sadly, multiclassing looks pretty bad for you. You could MC Paladin, but since you don't have a good melee weapon (and aren't built for such things) it's not such a hot choice.

MAGIC ITEMS
Since you're not going to qualify for Hide, let's look at leather armors. Now, I've always been a fan of Deathcut Leather, 'cause it gives Resist Fire and Resist Necrotic (handy!) and has a Daily that allows you zap someone who hit you in melee with 1d10+CHA Necrotic damage. Sylvan Leather ain't bad if you plan on sneaking around and climbing things a lot, but in general, I'd pass.

If you have access to Adventurer's Vault, pick something cheesy out of it :smalltongue:

For your two items, I'd go with Amulet of Health +2 (Resist Poison 5 FTW) or some other LV 8 item and a Belt of Vigor (LV 2). It's the best LV 2 item out there, and there aren't that many low-level items that are worth stacking up on.

Now, for the 10K gold. First, I'd recommend the Rod of Reaving +2 (5K) AKA Rod of Minion Killing; killing minions as a minor action (and getting your Pact Boon!) is just good.

Your remaining 5K can go into:
- Catstep Boots (half falling damage for 680 gold? Yes please!)
- Bag of Holding [1K] (if your DM cares about storage capacity)
- Bracers of Perfect Shot [0.68K] (+2 damage on your Eldrich Blast)
- Gauntlets of Piercing [0.68K] (particularly useful for the Chessmaster build)

or

- Rope of Climbing [5K] (it's pretty sweet :smalltongue:)

Another way you could go is to pick up a LV 8 Rod or Wand for your Pick 2 and then go hog-wild with your gold. Wands, in particular, are neat because they basically give you the chance to use a Warlock or Wizard power 1/Day. Since the Daily on your armor isn't that great, this is a fine idea - I'd recommend the Wand of Shield or one of the Warlock-power Wands. Among the Rods, I'd look at the Rod of First Blood +2; it lets you do an extra 1d8 damage if you hit someone with full HP - not bad.

Some items to look at here:
- Amulet of False Life +2 [4.2K] (gains Healing Surge worth of Temp HP 1/Day)
- Circlet of Authority [2.6K] (if you want to be a bossy Warlock)

So there's my thoughts.

theonesin
2009-03-07, 12:14 AM
About my stats, we were told to just pick one of the arrays from the list on....page 18? of the PHB.

sombrastewart
2009-03-07, 12:30 AM
For the record, I'm playing a level 14 Fey/Dark pact Human Warlock. Having all the attacks key off of one attribute means you can gain great versatility in what you select and can go a long, long way to helping you feel more effective.

The Dark pact boon is great for either minion killing or encouraging people to not attack you. I keep forgetting it works on melee and ranged attacks. Trust me on this one, it's not a bad idea.

And bear in mind that no matter what, you STILL need to be concerned with your Int score; it affects a great deal of the secondary effects of your powers.

Teron
2009-03-07, 12:56 AM
The Dragon Compendium. Dragon Magazine is a magazine published by WotC and over the months and years has held a massive amount of extra material for WotC products, including D&D. The Compendium is a book in which much of this extra material is collected and reprinted for easier reference, and includes errata and such on said material.
Wrong Dragon Compendium. The print version of Dragon, published in its last few years by Paizo under license from WotC, was cancelled before the debut of Fourth Edition. The version of Dragon relevant to players of said edition is the online one now published by WotC.

its_all_ogre
2009-03-07, 05:22 AM
personally i like star pact the most, it is a great 'help the party as a whole' character where the other two are less so.
look at level one alone and you have:
at wills that target ref and will (infernal both target ref which is not ideal)
enc power that penalises enemies will defence (all allies now target will)
daily which penalises will too!

level 3 enc that grants CA to your allies AND penalises their AC? hell yes!

and this just keeps building up.
to deal with the MAD issues i'd actually go with 16 in con, cha and int. however on that basis i'd look at tiefling as race because then you get hellfire blood which makes you the most accurate race:
+1 to hit bloodied foes
+1 to hit and damage with fear and fire powers
racial power +1 to hit a foe who just hit you and add cha to damage.
plus whenever star pact boon occurs you gain another +1 or more to hit!

this should reduce issues from main stat being a 16.

Totally Guy
2009-03-07, 06:35 AM
About my stats, we were told to just pick one of the arrays from the list on....page 18? of the PHB.

Hey, do you want in on a little secret?

18 14 11 10 10 8
18 13 13 10 10 8
18 13 12 11 10 8
18 13 11 11 11 8
18 12 12 12 10 8
17 16 11 10 10 8
17 15 13 10 10 8
17 15 12 11 10 8
17 15 11 11 11 8
17 14 14 10 10 8
17 14 13 12 10 8
17 14 13 11 11 8
17 14 12 12 11 8
17 13 13 13 11 8
17 13 13 12 12 8
16 16 13 11 10 8
16 16 12 12 10 8
16 16 12 11 11 8
16 15 14 11 10 8
16 15 13 12 11 8
16 15 12 12 12 8
16 14 14 13 10 8
16 14 14 12 11 8
16 14 13 13 12 8
15 15 15 11 10 8
15 15 14 13 10 8
15 15 14 12 11 8
15 15 13 13 12 8
15 14 14 14 10 8
15 14 14 13 12 8
14 14 14 14 12 8
18 14 10 10 10 9
18 13 12 10 10 9
18 13 11 11 10 9
18 12 11 11 11 9
17 16 10 10 10 9
17 15 12 10 10 9
17 15 11 11 10 9
17 14 13 11 10 9
17 14 12 12 10 9
17 14 12 11 11 9
17 13 13 13 10 9
17 13 13 12 11 9
17 13 12 12 12 9
16 16 13 10 10 9
16 16 12 11 10 9
16 16 11 11 11 9
16 15 14 10 10 9
16 15 13 12 10 9
16 15 13 11 11 9
16 15 12 12 11 9
16 14 14 12 10 9
16 14 14 11 11 9
16 14 13 13 11 9
16 14 13 12 12 9
16 13 13 13 13 9
15 15 15 10 10 9
15 15 14 12 10 9
15 15 14 11 11 9
15 15 13 13 11 9
15 15 13 12 12 9
15 14 14 13 11 9
15 14 14 12 12 9
15 14 13 13 13 9
14 14 14 14 11 9
14 14 13 13 13 9
18 13 11 10 10 10
18 12 12 10 10 10
18 12 11 11 10 10
18 11 11 11 11 10
17 15 11 10 10 10
17 14 13 10 10 10
17 14 12 11 10 10
17 13 11 11 11 10
17 13 13 12 10 10
17 13 13 11 11 10
17 13 12 12 11 10
17 12 12 12 12 10
16 16 12 10 10 10
16 16 11 11 10 10
16 15 13 11 10 10
16 15 12 12 10 10
16 15 12 11 11 10
16 14 14 11 10 10
16 14 13 13 10 10
16 14 13 12 11 10 Standard Array
16 14 12 12 12 10
16 13 13 13 12 10
15 15 14 11 10 10
15 15 13 13 10 10
15 15 13 12 11 10
15 15 12 12 12 10
15 14 14 13 10 10
15 14 14 12 11 10
15 14 13 13 12 10
14 14 14 14 10 10
17 12 12 11 11 11
17 12 12 12 11 11
16 15 11 11 11 11
16 14 13 11 11 11
16 14 12 12 11 11
16 13 13 13 11 11
16 13 13 12 12 11
15 15 12 12 11 11
15 14 14 11 11 11
15 14 13 13 11 11
15 14 13 12 12 11
15 13 13 13 13 11
14 14 14 13 11 11
14 14 14 12 12 11
14 14 13 13 13 11
16 13 12 12 12 12
15 14 12 12 12 12
15 13 13 13 12 12
14 14 13 13 12 12
14 13 13 13 13 13

This list is sorted by most specialised to least specialised for a given lowest stat.

Tehnar
2009-03-07, 10:05 AM
Hey, do you want in on a little secret?

You are missing: 18 12 12 12 10 8

theonesin
2009-03-07, 01:17 PM
If it means anything, I know that one of the party members is a Wizard (Minotaur Wizard to be exact, not sure why he picked that).

Oracle_Hunter
2009-03-07, 02:39 PM
If it means anything, I know that one of the party members is a Wizard (Minotaur Wizard to be exact, not sure why he picked that).

*poke* what kind of Warlock do you want to be. This is very important for Starlocks, since they basically have to mix & match their powers.

Anyhoo, looking over Glug's list (very nice, BTW!) the "16 16 12 12 10 8" array looks best for any Starlock. You'll stat it out like this:

STR 12
DEX 8
CON 16+2
INT 12
WIS 10
CHA 16+2


This gives you maximum flexibility for power selection and the ability, starting at level 11, to take Hide Proficiency (and, with retraining, Hide Spec!).

Now, if you want to be a total clothie, use the "17 14 14 10 10 8" array:

STR 8
DEX 10
CON 17+2
INT 14
WIS 10
CHA 14+2


You can flip CON & CHA if you want, but you need to double-bump the 16 and single bump the 19 and INT. That way you'll look like this at level 11:

STR 9
DEX 11
CON 21
INT 16
WIS 11
CHA 19


Now, looking at the Doomsayer PP, I'd say the "Mind Crush" build is probably your best bet. If you wish to use it, here it is:


STATS

STR 8
DEX 10
CON 15
INT 17
WIS 10
CHA 21

Using the "17 15 13 10 10 8" array.

Since CON isn't that important, and INT can be, I figured I'd go long on INT and short on CON. Keep pumping INT and CHA as you level and it'll be all good.


POWERS

At Wills - Eldrich Blast, Dire Radiance
Primarily use Eldrich Blast

Dilettante - Cloud of Daggers / Scorching Burst
You're pretty screwed here. There might be some better at-wills in Dragon Magazines or splatbooks, so look around, but since you can use your implement bonus on these attacks, they're worth a shot.

Cloud of Daggers is a guaranteed Minion Kill (handy), while Scorching Burst hits several targets, so you might get lucky.

EN 1 - Dreadful Word
Sweet, sweet WIL draining

DA 1 - Dread Star
Immobilizes with a -2 WIL penalty (Save End) and it's a Fear attack, so it works well with Doomsayer

UT 2 - Ethereal Stride
Teleportation is always good

EN 3 - Otherwind Stride
Run away! Also a fun anti-minion device.

DA 5 - Crown of Madness
Hilarious! Make the BBEG's bodyguard start hacking away at his Master :smallbiggrin:

UT 6 - Shroud of Black Steel
You need the armor, but not so much the speed.

EN 7 - Mire the Mind
Mass invisibility 1/EN? Yes, please!

DA 9 - Thief of Five Fates
Practically the capstone power of this build. Completely screw over 1 enemy of your choice; see if your DM lets you use your Boon on that D20 roll - probably not, but it's worth a shot :smalltongue:

UT 10 - Shadow Form
This is just good. You can take Shielding Shades instead if you'd like, but I just love this power.

FEATS

Now, I don't have splatbooks or Dragon Magazine, so poke around to see if there are better feats out there.

1 - Improved Fate of the Void
Obvious.

2 - Human Perseverance
Handy, particularly with your Boon. Never fail a save again!

4 - Jack of All Trades
Also handy, unless you decide to train a bunch of skills.

6 - Action Surge
Who doesn't like +3 to hit?

8 - Improved Initiative
Why not?

10 - Skill Focus (Bluff) / Linguist
In case you need to make a lot of false prophecies, or speak to Elder Gods.

To be honest, you could also take Skill Training (Diplomacy) and be the party face (if they don't have one). It works well with your M.O. of mind control :smallbiggrin:

There it is. Like I said, look at the splatbooks and Dragon Magazines you're allowed to use to tweak it, but I think this is a pretty fun build.

theonesin
2009-03-07, 03:12 PM
When you ask "what kind of Warlock do you want to be", I'm not quite sure what you mean by that. Care to give some examples?

The Mind Crush build mentioned looks pretty interesting, though the feat for Bluff or Diplomacy would likely be a waste for me simply because, due to personal issues, it's hard for me to roleplay at all. So I usually focus my characters on combat instead. As far as the Dilettante feature is concerned, it just so happened that the Wizard in the party did NOT pick either of the two At-Wills mentioned (he picked Magic Missile and Ray of Frost).

Oracle_Hunter
2009-03-07, 03:15 PM
When you ask "what kind of Warlock do you want to be", I'm not quite sure what you mean by that. Care to give some examples?

The Mind Crush build mentioned looks pretty interesting, though the feat for Bluff or Diplomacy would likely be a waste for me simply because, due to personal issues, it's hard for me to roleplay at all. So I usually focus my characters on combat instead. As far as the Dilettante feature is concerned, it just so happened that the Wizard in the party did NOT pick either of the two At-Wills mentioned (he picked Magic Missile and Ray of Frost).

Well, from an earlier post:

For the Starlock, there are lots of possibilities, but here are some I've thought up:
- Mind Crush: this build specializes in attacks that lower Will defenses and then uses Will-based attacks that control his opponents. This is a CHA focused build, using a mixture of Star and Fey pact powers.
- Chessmaster: this build specializes in powers that move and immobilize enemies, mixed in with some nasty zones that he can move folks into. This is a CON focused build, using a mixture of Star and Infernal pact powers.

Now, if you really want to be a combatant Warlock, I'd really recommend Infernal Warlock. Those guys can be tanky as hell, and there is already a popular Dwarven Warlock build (the Hexhammer) which is basically a Tank Mage. Astral Warlocks are much more into debuffing than really doing damage.

theonesin
2009-03-07, 03:24 PM
Well, when I said "focused on combat", I didn't necessarily mean pure damage. I was just saying that I probably wouldn't get much use out of abilities for out of combat or RP situations. I wouldn't mind seeing the build for that Infernal Warlock though.

Oracle_Hunter
2009-03-07, 03:59 PM
Well, when I said "focused on combat", I didn't necessarily mean pure damage. I was just saying that I probably wouldn't get much use out of abilities for out of combat or RP situations. I wouldn't mind seeing the build for that Infernal Warlock though.

Fair enough; I mentioned it because it's a waste to take a high-CHA build if you're not going to use any social skills.

Anyhow, the Hexhammer. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1039636)

theonesin
2009-03-07, 04:06 PM
That Hexhammer really surprised me. I guess I was kind of biased against the Infernal Pact because I thought it would focus on fire attacks too much (while I love fire attacks, I also hate focusing on that if we fight a lot of fire-resistant enemies), but I guess it doesn't actually use many, if any fire attacks. Having a tankish character wouldn't be bad for keeping our Wizard safe.

Edit: Wow, that Warforged version sounds like pure awesomeness. But looking up on the Warforged in the Monster Manual, I didn't see anything about this stuff for embedding equipment into them. How does that work?

Mando Knight
2009-03-07, 05:47 PM
If you're actually a Dwarf using the Hexhammer and have access to the Adventurer's Vault, you can have a Pacthammer to go with it... allowing you to use both your hammer and your magic implement in one hand. You may want to actually keep Dwarven Weapon Training if you do... as you can then have a Pact Mordenkrad to deal insane damage with the hammer up close, or massive damage from slightly farther off.

theonesin
2009-03-07, 06:00 PM
I didn't know about the Adventurer's Vault. I'll see if my DM will allow it.

Shadow_Elf
2009-03-07, 06:07 PM
If you're interested in the Dark Pact's actual fluff, its a pact with the raw energy of the Shadowfell and the Demonweb Pits, IIRC. You have a patron, but they mostly just act as a conduit for the dark energy of those two "planes". It was invented and is favoured by Drow.

theonesin
2009-03-08, 12:40 AM
Going by that Hexhammer guide, I wouldn't be able to use that Rod of Corruption if I had a Pact Mordenkrad, right? Or am I just supposed to switch out between them?

Mando Knight
2009-03-08, 11:31 AM
Going by that Hexhammer guide, I wouldn't be able to use that Rod of Corruption if I had a Pact Mordenkrad, right? Or am I just supposed to switch out between them?

You would have to switch out between them, which would be the advantage of using a Pact Craghammer instead.

theonesin
2009-03-09, 02:09 AM
Which would be better than? A Pact Craghammer and Rod of Corruption, or a Pact Mordenkrad?

On some other notes, the DM believes the Warforged is too powerful or something so I can't go with the Hexforged build. Also, the party seems to be a Minotaur Wizard and a Rogue (not sure the race on this). Would the Hexhammer compliment this group well?

Artanis
2009-03-09, 12:13 PM
Let me preface this by saying that you should play what you want to play :smallwink:

Now, that said, are those the only two other members of the party? If so, a squishy controller, striker, and other striker is a LOT of damage. I notice a lot of mention in that hexhammer build thread of ranged damage...and you have plenty of damage in one third of your party being a primary striker. And no matter how "tankish" you make a Warlock, it's still got nothing on a primary defender when it comes to protecting the party. If you really want to protect the party, I think a Paladin would be the best choice: it's a bona-fide defender, and it's a half-leader, which helps fill another role the party lacks.

Of course, if there are other party members, things are different.

theonesin
2009-03-09, 04:11 PM
For the time being, I believe we only have 3. One of the players isn't going to join up until he gets his copy of the PHBII for some reason. Also on that note, the DM is allowing us to make new characters if we want at that time, and while I haven't seen much, I'm quite interested in the Sorcerer. So I guess these characters might be temporary, so we might be ok with the current party until then.

Asbestos
2009-03-10, 11:43 AM
For the time being, I believe we only have 3. One of the players isn't going to join up until he gets his copy of the PHBII for some reason. Also on that note, the DM is allowing us to make new characters if we want at that time, and while I haven't seen much, I'm quite interested in the Sorcerer. So I guess these characters might be temporary, so we might be ok with the current party until then.

The sorc will definitely be able to lay down more hurt than the Warlock, but will be even more of a glass cannon and they seem to lay down less status effects than the Warlock as well. There's an incredibly controllery Warlock paragon path in a new Dragon article, btw.

What does your DM think is overpowered about the Warforged?

Izmir Stinger
2009-03-10, 12:02 PM
That Hexhammer build is going to get a serious overhaul when PHBII comes out. A feat was leaked that would allow the Warlock to use his CON or CHA instead of STR for Melee basic attacks.

theonesin
2009-03-10, 12:51 PM
The only thing the DM mentioned about the Warforged was the death saving throw stuff.

Izmir Stinger
2009-03-10, 01:11 PM
The only thing the DM mentioned about the Warforged was the death saving throw stuff.

Does he know that if he really wants to kill a Warforged char, they are still helpless and can still be the subject of a Coup de Gras? Seems like the kind of thing only are particularly vicious DM would care about.

theonesin
2009-03-10, 01:19 PM
I'm not sure. Though if it means anything, the last three monsters he put us up against in the 3.5e version of the campaign, were monsters that according to him, we couldn't kill (some flaming snake, a blue dragon, and some giant). I somehow doubt the Hexforged thing with the embedding rods into the legs would've flown by him anyway.

Artanis
2009-03-10, 01:20 PM
The death saving throw thing isn't really THAT big a deal:
*On average, it takes more than 6 rounds' worth of death saving throws for a non-Warforged to die, and any character down that long is in serious trouble anyways.
*The death saving throw doesn't make them get back up any faster, so the party is just as boned as if they were suddenly missing the Elf or Human or Gnome or whatever.
*An easy Heal check can stabilize the dying, so they stop making death saving throws.
*Going too far into the negatives kills a Warforged just as easily as it does anybody else.
*Getting healed can bring anybody back from being Dying.

tl;dr: It doesn't make them unkillable. All it does is keep the Warforged from being killed by bad luck.


Edit: Ninja'd :smallfrown:

In that case, ignore my earlier suggestion of a Paladin. If he's that determined to kill you guys, all a primary defender will do is make him try harder. Might as well have fun blasting things before he kills you off.

Oracle_Hunter
2009-03-10, 01:27 PM
Does he know that if he really wants to kill a Warforged char, they are still helpless and can still be the subject of a Coup de Gras? Seems like the kind of thing only are particularly vicious DM would care about.

Quite the opposite, actually.

Most DMs go by the unwritten rule that monsters don't bother to Coup de Grace fallen PCs - usually it makes sense, because there are other living & dangerous opponents wandering about. In these cases, the danger comes from the player being forced to make Death Saves - the other PCs are forced to decide between keeping up the fight and saving the fallen PC. With Warforged, this is just not a risk; he can lie unconscious until it is convenient.

But with Warforged, a new paradigm comes in play. Particularly with monsters who know about Warforged, it becomes a very good idea to Coup de Grace fallen Warforged ASAP. With other races, you know that they will likely die on their own if left unattended - but with Warforged, you know that they will get back into the fight unless you keep 'em down, permanently. And it is far easier to Coup de Grace a PC to death than to wait for them to fail 3 Death Saves.

Now the DM has a choice - does he continue to ignore fallen PCs (reducing the personal risk to the Warforged from combat dramatically) or do the "smart thing" and have his monsters Coup de Grace the Warforged when appropriate (practically guaranteeing death for the PC). A more "humane" DM may very well just ban Warforged instead of having to explain to the player why the monsters keep Coup de Gracing him and nobody else.

theonesin
2009-03-10, 01:30 PM
I don't know if he's necessarily trying to kill us, but in the case of the flaming snake (which killed my Druid and his Animal Companion), the DM kept asking why the party didn't just run away from it. But for me, I'm too used to playing games where you either kill the monster or die. I don't think to "run away" from anything. The dragon was part of a puzzle that no one in the party figured out. I don't know what the deal with the giant was, but it seemed to act nice when it was entertained, but one of the other players kept attacking it.

Mando Knight
2009-03-10, 03:56 PM
Most DMs go by the unwritten rule that monsters don't bother to Coup de Grace fallen PCs

Actually, it's written down in core 4E, on page 40 of the DMG. It's not a rule, but rather more of a guideline...

Oracle_Hunter
2009-03-10, 05:01 PM
Actually, it's written down in core 4E, on page 40 of the DMG. It's not a rule, but rather more of a guideline...

Oh, I miss the old Order of Dungeon Mastery, where revealing the contents of the DMG was worth at least a hanging by the thumbs from sun-up to sundown :smallsigh:

But yes, it is written down in 4E, but it has been unwritten since at least 2E - where there wasn't even a Coup De Grace rule!

RTGoodman
2009-03-10, 05:17 PM
But yes, it is written down in 4E, but it has been unwritten since at least 2E - where there wasn't even a Coup De Grace rule!

Well, it's probably best that it's written, since I played with a DM in 3.x RttToEE that CdG'd one of my characters and said he'd do it to other characters given the opportunity. :smallannoyed:

nightwyrm
2009-03-10, 05:19 PM
Oh, I miss the old Order of Dungeon Mastery, where revealing the contents of the DMG was worth at least a hanging by the thumbs from sun-up to sundown :smallsigh:

But yes, it is written down in 4E, but it has been unwritten since at least 2E - where there wasn't even a Coup De Grace rule!

Coz you just died at 0 hp. :smallamused:
None of that falling unconscious at 0 mollycoddling.

Oracle_Hunter
2009-03-10, 06:48 PM
Coz you just died at 0 hp. :smallamused:
None of that falling unconscious at 0 mollycoddling.

Don't be silly. I was talking about when the baddies sneaked past the guy on watch while the rest of the party was sleeping :smallbiggrin:

theonesin
2009-03-12, 04:44 PM
I have a somewhat general Warlock question, though it still applies to the Hexhammer build that I'm using (though I changed the frost feat for something else). The build recommends a Rod of Corruption, and later that thread recommended the Pacthammer(note that I'm using a Craghammer so I could later hold a rod in the other hand). From what I read about the Rod of Corruption(and other Warlock-related rods), the effects only apply when you're using the rod as an implement, right? But if you're using the Pacthammer as your implement, you wouldn't get the bonus from whatever rod you have, right? But then if you have to use the rod for all of your Warlock powers to get the bonus the rod gives, what's the point of even having a Pacthammer?

Thajocoth
2009-03-12, 05:01 PM
For a Warlock starting with magical gear, I recommend a Pact Blade (or Pact Hammer, Pact Bow, Pact Spear, ect...), which is a dagger (or other weapon, but then requires a specific race) that may also be used as an implement. This way, you can still threaten and take AOs if need be while casting (and get the same magic & crit dice bonus for both spells & melee).

I also recommend Shimmering Armor (from the Adventurer's Vault), as it allows you to cast while adjacent to an enemy without taking an AO... Though it's cloth only, so you lose a point of AC for it, as Warlocks naturally get leather.

For pact, it really depends on what you want. Just read through each pact's powers. Personally, I have plans for a Doppleganger Dark Pact Warlock if my Halfling Rogue ever dies... I've already run it by my GM. After the party goes to the next room after I'm dead, they'd see Hank L. Biter run back in after them and just say he got better... And slightly taller. Heh... Dopplegangers (like all shape shifters in 4E) get an extra +20 to their Bluff to disguise as someone specific.

In 2 other campaigns I'm in, I have warlock allies of the Infernal & Fey pacts, and both of them are quite effective. The Fey Pact's teleporting all around the field as enemies fall has really shown it's usefulness.

Oracle_Hunter
2009-03-12, 05:17 PM
I have a somewhat general Warlock question, though it still applies to the Hexhammer build that I'm using (though I changed the frost feat for something else). The build recommends a Rod of Corruption, and later that thread recommended the Pacthammer(note that I'm using a Craghammer so I could later hold a rod in the other hand). From what I read about the Rod of Corruption(and other Warlock-related rods), the effects only apply when you're using the rod as an implement, right? But if you're using the Pacthammer as your implement, you wouldn't get the bonus from whatever rod you have, right? But then if you have to use the rod for all of your Warlock powers to get the bonus the rod gives, what's the point of even having a Pacthammer?

For the Hexhammer in particular, a Pacthammer is useful because it both gives bonuses to STR attacks (hammer) and CON attacks (hexes).

The Rod of Corruption is useful for its property - when your Pact Boon is triggered, you can automatically Curse all enemies within 5 of the original target. There is nothing in the power description that requires the Rod to be used as an implement there; you do need to wield it in order for it to work. You never actually use the Rod of Corruption as a Rod, y'see; buy a LV 3 Rod and a high-level Pacthammer.

theonesin
2009-03-12, 05:40 PM
Ohh, I understand now.

Are there any other worthwhile rods that work the same way? I know when I was doing a brief read of them, the Vicious Rod (roll d8 instead of d6 on curse damage) looking interesting.

Oracle_Hunter
2009-03-12, 07:06 PM
Pretty much all the rods do. If it specifically is triggered by the activation of a Pact Boon or when a Curse is laid, then that's how it works.

I like the Rod of Reaving, personally :smallbiggrin:

THAC0
2009-03-12, 07:16 PM
Pretty much all the rods do. If it specifically is triggered by the activation of a Pact Boon or when a Curse is laid, then that's how it works.

I like the Rod of Reaving, personally :smallbiggrin:

I did too, until my DM nerfed it. Wah. :(

Totally Guy
2009-03-12, 07:18 PM
Oh man, that Rod of Reaving...

I had the party Warlock acquire one of these and it's very good. The minions especially don't stand a chance.

In a solo fight is it possible to curse the enemy, perform the attack ... then next round cancel the curse, apply the curse again and then perform an attack benefitting from the Rod enhancement damage each turn? At the cost of a minor action per turn of course.

Thajocoth
2009-03-12, 07:25 PM
Just remember, anything you cast that you want to have your rod effect needs to be cast with the rod and it's bonuses, wheras if you want to cast with the pact hammer, you use it and it's bonuses. That's where having two implements gets a bit tricky.

So, if your rod has an immediate reaction when a cursed enemy falls, you need to be holding the rod to use that reaction... Or, if your rod does something more to an enemy after you hit them with a spell, you need to hit them with a spell cast with that rod.

The advantage to a pact weapon is that you can use it as a melee weapon (and/or ranged for the pact spear or pact bow), but also as a casting tool in place of a rod or wand. The pact hammer specifically requires that you're a dwarf to be able to do that.

Just something to keep in mind.

theonesin
2009-03-12, 07:39 PM
The Rod of Reaving is the one that does damage equal to your enhancement bonus when you place a curse, right? How is that powerful enough to warrant a nerf?

Thajocoth
2009-03-12, 07:43 PM
...The minions especially don't stand a chance...


The Rod of Reaving is the one that does damage equal to your enhancement bonus when you place a curse, right?

Wouldn't minions be immune, as they're immune to passive damage?

Oracle_Hunter
2009-03-12, 08:21 PM
Wouldn't minions be immune, as they're immune to passive damage?

They most emphatically are not! They are immune to Miss damage; if the power has a "Miss" entry that includes damage, it does not apply to minions.

@Glug

A Warlock’s Curse remains in effect until the end of the encounter or until the cursed enemy drops to 0 hit points or fewer.

So no, you can't "cancel" a Curse. You also can't re-curse an enemy that already is under the effects of a Curse.

EDIT:

The Rod of Reaving is the one that does damage equal to your enhancement bonus when you place a curse, right? How is that powerful enough to warrant a nerf?

It is also the Rod Of Killing Minions, since dealing any damage to a Minion is enough to kill it. This rod makes higher-level minions really iffy for a DM to use - so what if it has AC 90, the Warlock just points and clicks and *poof*

I probably wouldn't allow it in my games though; I dislike "free" KOs like that. At least with Aura damage, the PC had to expend a power (usually a Daily).

Mando Knight
2009-03-12, 08:22 PM
Wouldn't minions be immune, as they're immune to passive damage?

They're not. They're only immune to Miss-effect damage

Thajocoth
2009-03-12, 08:28 PM
"Damage from an attack or from a source that doesn’t require an attack roll (such as the paladin’s divine challenge or the fighter’s cleave) destroys a minion. If a minion is missed by an attack that normally deals damage on a miss, however, it takes no damage."

The above is from the DMG. It seems I was mistaken. I'll have to ask my group if we're houseruling this, or somebody misread it. Thanks.

Oracle_Hunter
2009-03-12, 08:43 PM
Damage from an attack or from a source that doesn’t require an attack roll (such as the paladin’s divine challenge or the fighter’s cleave) destroys a minion.

Emphasis mine. :smallsmile:

THAC0
2009-03-12, 08:49 PM
It is also the Rod Of Killing Minions, since dealing any damage to a Minion is enough to kill it. This rod makes higher-level minions really iffy for a DM to use - so what if it has AC 90, the Warlock just points and clicks and *poof*


Yup. The DM was not pleased with me killing two paragon tier minions each round with two-fold curse and a level... 6 +1 magic item. I can't really blame him.

theonesin
2009-03-12, 08:55 PM
I guess I didn't understand the use of the Rod of Reaving since we haven't fought any Minions yet.

Does that mean you'd only need a +1 Rod of Reaving to kill a Minion? I'd hate to waste a lot of money buying a high-level one if the DM turned around and banned it or something.

Oracle_Hunter
2009-03-12, 09:14 PM
I guess I didn't understand the use of the Rod of Reaving since we haven't fought any Minions yet.

Does that mean you'd only need a +1 Rod of Reaving to kill a Minion? I'd hate to waste a lot of money buying a high-level one if the DM turned around and banned it or something.

Yes, only buy the +1 Rod to wield in your off-hand.

theonesin
2009-03-12, 09:32 PM
Besides the Rod of Reaving or a Rod of Corruption, are there any useful things a level 10 Dwarven Warlock (using the Hexhammer build minus the frost stuff) could buy? I have 28,467gp to spend.

Oracle_Hunter
2009-03-12, 09:44 PM
Besides the Rod of Reaving or a Rod of Corruption, are there any useful things a level 10 Dwarven Warlock (using the Hexhammer build minus the frost stuff) could buy? I have 28,467gp to spend.

Lot of useful minor items: Catstep Boots, Belt of Vigor, Bag of Holding, Rope of Climbing...

Oh, and you'll need a Neck Slot item. Buy the best Amulet of Protection you can afford. Do you have armor already?

And don't overlook Bracers of Perfect Shot - they can improve your Eldrich Blast damage nicely... though doesn't the build already say to get Bracers of Mighty Striking?

How about you list the items you do have picked out already.

RTGoodman
2009-03-12, 09:48 PM
Besides the Rod of Reaving or a Rod of Corruption, are there any useful things a level 10 Dwarven Warlock (using the Hexhammer build minus the frost stuff) could buy? I have 28,467gp to spend.

Well, in general, you need (1) a good weapon, (2) decent armor, and (3) a good neck slot item before you worry about anything else. Weapon is set for you I guess, and armor is up to you.

For your neck slot item, though, you've got a lot of options. I personally like the cape of the mountebank a lot. It might be a little better for rogues so they can get SA, but it could work for a dwarf-lock too since your speed isn't as great and it gives you that little boost if you need it.

Cape of the Mountebank +2

With a flourish of this silk-hemmed garment, you transport out of harm’s way.

Level: 10
Price: 5000 gp
Item Slot: Neck
Enhancement: +2 Fortitude, Reflex, and Will

Power (Daily • Teleportation): Immediate Reaction. Use this power when you are hit by an attack. Teleport 5 squares and gain combat advantage against the attacker until the end of your next turn.

NecroRebel
2009-03-12, 09:52 PM
Besides the Rod of Reaving or a Rod of Corruption, are there any useful things a level 10 Dwarven Warlock (using the Hexhammer build minus the frost stuff) could buy? I have 28,467gp to spend.

As was mentioned (much) earlier, you should definately invest in magic armor and a magic neckpiece to shore up your defenses.

You might find some wands useful as well, particularly the various Master's Wands from AV as their powers are usable per encounter and thus don't take daily uses. If you're using Eldritch Blast more than your other attack powers, Bracers of the Perfect Shot can give a sizable damage boost. I believe that there is a feat coming in PHB2 that also lets you use your Eldritch Blast as a melee basic attack as well, in which case Bracers of Mighty Striking would be quite nice for a hexhammer-type build.

Basically anything that boosts your speed is quite helpful for a Dwarf, since they naturally have low speed, and is especially helpful for a Dwarven Striker to help them get to where they need to be or away from assailants.

In general, though, you're going to want to go for items to improve your to-hit and damage capabilities.



On another topic, what do people think would happen if you held both a Rod of Reaving and a Rod of Corruption? If you were to curse a minion, the RoR would kill it, and then the RoC would spread the curse to everything within 5 squares of it... But would the RoR also deal damage to the things the RoC cursed? If so, you could kill an arbitrarily-large number of minions with a minor action using only 2 low-level magic items, but I see no reason why it wouldn't work by RAW.

Tonight's matchup: 1 level 4 Warlock, built using RAW, versus one hundred trillion Lich Vestiges (level 26 minion)! Who will win?! Probably the vestiges.

theonesin
2009-03-12, 09:54 PM
The items I currently have are:

+2 Pact Craghammer

+3 Dwarven Chainmail

Mando Knight
2009-03-12, 10:29 PM
The items I currently have are:

+2 Pact Craghammer

+3 Dwarven Chainmail

If you've got access to Adventurer's Vault (and thus the Pact Craghammer), I'd suggest taking instead +3 Dwarven Braidmail. It's better.

theonesin
2009-03-12, 10:42 PM
I've never bought masterwork armor before, so how do I figure the cost of it?

Oracle_Hunter
2009-03-12, 10:45 PM
On another topic, what do people think would happen if you held both a Rod of Reaving and a Rod of Corruption? If you were to curse a minion, the RoR would kill it, and then the RoC would spread the curse to everything within 5 squares of it... But would the RoR also deal damage to the things the RoC cursed? If so, you could kill an arbitrarily-large number of minions with a minor action using only 2 low-level magic items, but I see no reason why it wouldn't work by RAW.

Apparently there hasn't been a FAQ on it yet, but over on the CharOp boards they settled on the Reaver triggering only when you, and not your rod, places the curse on someone.

Now, the shopping list (28,467 GP)
- Amulet of Protection +3 (9K)
- Catstep Boots (0.68K)
- Bag of Holding (1K)
- Gloves of Piercing (0.68K)
- Bracers of Mighty Striking +2 (0.52K)
- Ironskin Belt (1K)

...but that's just off Core. Definitely switch out for AV stuff - it's generally much better. If you need to quickly identify broken stuff, flip through TD's Review (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1100755&highlight=Adventurer%27s+Vault) and choose accordingly :smallamused:

RTGoodman
2009-03-12, 10:50 PM
I've never bought masterwork armor before, so how do I figure the cost of it?

You don't. "Masterwork" just means the item has a high enhancement bonus, and so its normal stats go up.

For instance, leather armor is normal as long as it's magical leather +3 or less. When you go up to magical leather +4, though, the material it was made with had to be better for the better magic, and thus it's masterwork and gains an additional +1 AC for being Fey Leather instead of normal leather.

I think the FAQ or Errata or something makes it more clear, but I can't find it as of now.

Mando Knight
2009-03-12, 10:53 PM
I've never bought masterwork armor before, so how do I figure the cost of it?

It's included in the cost of the magic item, just like all magic items in 4E. (See PHB 214. It states level 16 only because that was the minimum level for Masterwork armor at the time.) Adventurer's Vault provides masterwork items for +2 and better armors.

theonesin
2009-03-12, 10:57 PM
Ok then, what would be the cost of that Braidmail mentioned earlier?

RTGoodman
2009-03-12, 11:13 PM
Ok then, what would be the cost of that Braidmail mentioned earlier?

The same as any other +3 or higher magic armor. Basic magic braidmail +3 costs the same as any other Level 11 magic item (9000gp). It has a normal +8 AC (higher than normal chainmail because its masterwork), and +3 enhancement bonus to AC since it's magic.

You could probably get better than just standard +3 armor, though. Darkforged, for instance, is the same thing but is a Level 12 item (13000gp), but it has an added daily power that gives you Resist 6 to all damage. Really, the specific magic armor you get depends on what you want.


EDIT: Yeah, I forgot we were talking about Dwarven Braidmail, as in, Braidmail that is "Dwarven Armor" as the magical ability thingy. Yeah, it's a Level 12 item that costs 13000gp, as Izmir says.

Izmir Stinger
2009-03-12, 11:18 PM
Ok then, what would be the cost of that Braidmail mentioned earlier?

it was Dwarven Braidmail, right? A suit of +3 Dwarven Armor costs 13k gold. In fact, any suit of lvl 12 armor costs 13k. There is some serious price fixing going on in the D&D economy. Eberon needs some anti-trust laws.

Hmm, now that I'm looking at it.. I didn't realize dwarven was available in chain. Might be good for my Tempest Fighter.

EDIT: Ninja'd!

Oracle_Hunter
2009-03-12, 11:20 PM
The same as any other +3 or higher magic armor. Basic magic braidmail +3 costs the same as any other Level 11 magic item (9000gp). It has a normal +8 AC (higher than normal chainmail because its masterwork), and +3 enhancement bonus to AC since it's magic.

Wait... that can't be right. Why isn't all armor Masterwork then, if it costs exactly the same as the magic chainmail of the same strength?

EDIT:
Ah, they put a +1 level modifier on the item. That makes more sense.

theonesin
2009-03-12, 11:46 PM
I'm really not sure what magical armor or items to look for, and I guess "items befitting a Hexhammer" isn't really specific enough.

Oracle_Hunter
2009-03-13, 02:10 AM
I'm really not sure what magical armor or items to look for, and I guess "items befitting a Hexhammer" isn't really specific enough.

Here's the equipment section from the Hexhammer Build:
Necessary
- Rod of Corruption. This is my favorite magic item for a Warlock who plans to use his Pact Boon frequently.
- Armor: Duh. Get good armor. Preferably Dwarf armor, since extra Free action healing is tanky.
- Bracers of Mighty Striking: You're only going to be making melee basic attacks, so the extra damage is tasty.
- Weapon: Less important than your Armor & Rod. Can be up to 5 levels below you without impacting your awesomeness too much. Luckily Frost weapons are relatively cheap. (Compared to Flaming, for example -- why do they hate Tieflings? Oh well, not your problem.) If you are not taking the Lasting Frost route, look into a Relentless weapon (Dragon 365, Bazaar column) once you hit 16th level, and you'll probably have the most brutal critical hits possible before Vorpal at level 30.

Nice to Have
- Winged Boots: If you're 15th level or higher, it's hard to find a better pair of boots, particularly since falling damage got so nasty.
- Cloak of Survival: Dwarves don't worry much about poison damage, so survival is superior to health IMHO.
- Belt of Vigor: You have a lot of healing surges. This is a good item for you.
- Rod of the Dragon's Heart: (Dragon 365, Bazaar column) Juicy, but highly situational. Since it's an Immediate power, you can't trigger it yourself, and it requires that your foes be clumped up. When it works, it can heal you a chunk of damage, but don't expect it to be useful every day.
- Flask of the Dragon's Breath: (Dragon 365, Bazaar column) Hey look, a cheap area attack. It appears the attack is either a Minor or a free action, but this may just be poor writing.

Aside from that, this is what to consider:
- Neck Slot: you'll want either a +3 Cloak/Amulet or a +2 Cloak/Amulet with an awesome ability. At LV 10, I usually just go with Amulet of Protection +3
- Foot Slot: I love the Catstep Boots - half falling damage for 680 GP? Yes, please!
- Glove Slot: really, anything you want. If nothing else comes to mind, Gloves of Piercing are cheap & good.
- Belt Slot: again, your choice. If nothing else comes to mind, Belts of Vigor are cheap and helpful when you can Second Wind as a minor action.

That's about it. Pick up a Bag of Holding to hold your loot and you're set.

Now... do you understand how the Hexhammer works? If so, it should be fairly easy to see items that synergize with the build. If not, please state what is confusing.

theonesin
2009-03-13, 02:24 AM
Yeah, I don't think I have any problems understanding how the Hexhammer works, though I'm just not that familiar with 4e yet. I seemed to fair pretty well during our first session, though it's hard to gauge my overall usefulness since not all of the players were there, and the DM was playing one of those characters, a Fighter, and got lucky with the crits (which isn't really something surprising for him, but it's weird to have the high crits on our side for once).

I know that Warlock daily that negates all damage was wonderful when he critted with a White Dragon's breath attack(it did 30 damage I think), heheh.

Oracle_Hunter
2009-03-13, 02:27 AM
Well then, pick a list o' magic items and post it here. If there's anything blatantly wrong, someone will mention it.

Fortunately, 4E is pretty forgiving with magical item selection. Even when our LV 13 party was running around with Basic +2 gear (and no Neck slot items!), we were able to survive fairly difficult encounters without much muss or fuss. It only took a couple sessions of complaining to the DM for him to actually throw us a friggin' bone :smalltongue:

theonesin
2009-03-13, 02:43 AM
Quick question: Can weapons and armor have more than one magic enhancement?

On a different note, I don't know if this helps with item recommendations, but I really can't rely on magic items that rely on critical hits, as I very rarely get them. I know I saw a bunch of weapons in the Adventurer's Vault that had to do with critical hits, as well as that Relentless enchantment mentioned with the Hexhammer.

Oracle_Hunter
2009-03-13, 02:49 AM
Quick question: Can weapons and armor have more than one magic enhancement?

On a different note, I don't know if this helps with item recommendations, but I really can't rely on magic items that rely on critical hits, as I very rarely get them. I know I saw a bunch of weapons in the Adventurer's Vault that had to do with critical hits, as well as that Relentless enchantment mentioned with the Hexhammer.

Nope, every magic item is a magic item.

As for crits, if you have a WIS Cleric tell him to go Divine Oracle at level 11. As an Encounter power, they can guarantee a crit. It's a very nice Paragon Path.

theonesin
2009-03-13, 02:58 AM
I don't believe we have a Cleric at all. Just a Wizard, Fighter, and either a Rogue or a Paladin(the other player who didn't show up that session. I don't remember the exact class).

So if you can't add other enhancements to something, should I eventually be looking into a hammer with other enhancements, and using whatever rod I have as the implement instead? I mean, at least later on when I have more money to spend/can buy better stuff?

Oracle_Hunter
2009-03-13, 03:00 AM
So if you can't add other enhancements to something, should I eventually be looking into a hammer with other enhancements, and using whatever rod I have as the implement instead? I mean, at least later on when I have more money to spend/can buy better stuff?

You pick the hammer you want. Now, to save on money, getting a Pacthammer to use for hitting things and hexing things is good; you can pick up a cheap Rod for its effect later. Wands are pretty expensive (LV 8 minimum) but not a bad thing to look out for in the future.

Mando Knight
2009-03-14, 12:18 PM
Ah, they put a +1 level modifier on the item. That makes more sense.

What? No they didn't. Adventurer's Vault, page 6:

+4 crysteel mail armor costs 45,000 gp--the same as nonmasterwork +4 chain armor.

hamishspence
2009-03-14, 12:25 PM
but masterwork is assumed to be built in once you reach the level needed. Forgemail is minimum +4 enhancement, so if you bought +4 magic chain under core rules, it is assumed to be forgemail.

And forgemail grants a +9 armour bonus, compared to crysteel's +8: you are trading armour bonus for the other benefits of special masterwork, like bonus to other defences, or Resist.

Artanis
2009-03-14, 01:35 PM
One way to think of Masterwork armor is like this:

Scale Armor starts off adding 7 to your AC. So some +1 Scale Armor is going to add 7+1=+8 to your AC.

Stormscale Armor (AV 7) would add 9 to your AC before you enchant it, but there's one problem: it's a serious bitch to make. So Stormscale is The Good Stuff, and no armorsmith is just going to waste it for a measly +3 enchantment. No, it's getting at least a +4 on it. And that +4 Stormscale Armor is going to give you 9+4=+13 AC. What's more, the "special" column says that you'll get +2 FORT to go with that +13 AC.

Now, placing a +4 enchantment costs a certain amount of money no matter what it's put on. But if somebody's already paying for +4, they're going to get that +4 put on The Good Stuff. So an armorsmith will tell you, "yeah, I guess you can get +4 Scale for 45 grand, but I'll sell you +4 Stormscale for 45 grand too."

And similarly for the other Masterwork armors.

hamishspence
2009-03-14, 01:40 PM
and what about the reverse- the suggestion that "no-one makes +4 Scale armour- a +4 enhancement is too good to waste on the plain stuff"

That would accord well with the other aspect of masterwork- the principle that if its that high a bonus, it will be masterwork, not plain.

Artanis
2009-03-14, 01:47 PM
My edit got ninja'd :smallcool:


Now, placing a +4 enchantment costs a certain amount of money no matter what it's put on. But if somebody's already paying for +4, they're going to get that +4 put on The Good Stuff. So an armorsmith will tell you, "yeah, I guess you can get +4 Scale for 45 grand, but I'll sell you +4 Stormscale for 45 grand too."

Oracle_Hunter
2009-03-14, 01:48 PM
I understand the RAW in Core - all armor at or above a minimum enchantment bonus will be a specific type of Masterwork (+4 is the lowest). That kind of Masterwork armor is free.

But it seems that in AV or someplace you can buy Masterwork armor at less than minimum enchantment - so you could have a Masterwork +3 armor. How much does that cost?

hamishspence
2009-03-14, 01:54 PM
Every AV masterwork bonus has a minimum, however, its often lower than that for "standard" masterworks. The Armour bonus is usually different as well- lower, also.

+2 Finemail is probably as low as "masterwork chain armour" can be.

Oracle_Hunter
2009-03-14, 01:59 PM
Oh... so AV just extended the Masterwork system down from +4 to +2? Is every +3 Magic Armor supposed to be +3 Masterwork Armor? :smallconfused:

If so, then "money grab" :smallannoyed:

hamishspence
2009-03-14, 02:06 PM
It is, I think, intended to make lower armours more interesting- instead of +2 Hide, you get +2 Earthhide. Same Armour bonus, slightly better property ( Fort bonus)

Also, I think its intended to supplement ordinary armours rather than replace them- not every +2 Hide you come across will automatically be Earthhide.

Oracle_Hunter
2009-03-14, 02:09 PM
Do Hide +2 and Earthhide +2 cost the same?

hamishspence
2009-03-14, 02:13 PM
yes (and have same bonus, plus special property). Which means, if you are using AV, and players are familiar, they will tend to insist on getting the masterwork versions, if they have powergaming tendencies.

Most of the new masterwork armours, you have to trade something, but the low level ones tend to be a bit too much "free bonus" Admittedly they are small bonuses.

Oracle_Hunter
2009-03-14, 02:16 PM
Feh, it's like dwarves and Executioner Axes. Why use a Greataxe when Dwarven Weapon Training gives you access to the Executioner Axe - which is strictly better :smallyuk:

So, OP, if you have access to AV, make sure you get Masterwork +3 Chain.

Mando Knight
2009-03-14, 03:58 PM
Do Hide +2 and Earthhide +2 cost the same?

Nope. +2 Earthhide costs five times as much, and throws in an extra enhancement bonus, to boot. (It's minimum +3 enhancement)

+3 Hide and +3 Earthhide cost the same, though. I say it's because the guys making the +3 armor don't want to waste the spell components on the lesser armors, and thus charge more to make them enchant it that way (like increasing the weight, or decreasing might/accuracy/crit when forging items in Fire Emblem increases the price for making the weapon worse...), or that the masterwork items cost too much to make as mundane equipment, but channel magic that much more easily, making it cheaper to enhance.

hamishspence
2009-03-14, 04:02 PM
"finemail" "drakescale" and "rimefire plate" are minimum +2 enhancement, though.