check these class abilities please!!

[kanachi]

hiya, i'm thining o making a anti-spell caster style class and have devised the following class abilities for them i was wondering if you guys could give me your thoughts on what you think of them before i go ahead and try to make a class involvin them. Thanks!!

Counter spell

A Counter Spell may select a single target within 30 feet as a free action, during any portion of her turn. Once a taget is selected they do not have to remain within 30 feet for this ability to remain effective (however a line of sight is required).

Any spells or spell-like effects used by the target requires them to plass a DC [15 + Counter Spells Charisma bonus + Counter Spells Class level] concentration check or have their spell (or spell like effect) fail. Even if the targets spell or spell like effect is successful they must repeat the save at the begining of each of the conter spells subsiquent turns for them to active.

Should the Counter Spell opt change her target she will no longer be able to inflict this chance of failure upon the spells or spell like effects of her previous target untill they have once again been targeted.

Counter School

The Counter Spell may select a single school she is particularly proficient at countering. The Counter Spell may spontaneously cast dispel in response to a spell from her selected school or domain a number of times equal to her charisma modifier per day.

School or Domain immunity

The Counter Spell may select one of the schools of magic she has taken for her counter school abilities and make herself impervious to all its effects.

She may opt to target a single individual as a free action and transfer (of force) this immunity upon them. To force an imunity upon a target requires an opposed Charisma check.

Spell Twist

The Counter Spell may reverse the flow of magic of particular spells cast against them at will in order to produce the opposite effect the caster intended. For example should a slow spell be cast upon them they may opt to change the effect into that of a hast spell.

This ability only effects spells which are directly targeted or directly effect the Counter Spell, she can’t for example move into an area under the effect of the darkness spell and transform it into a sunlight spell. She could however transform the individual effect of a mass inflict light wounds spell into a cure light wounds spell though this effect would not extend to anyone else other than the Counter Spell themselves.

Aura of Protection

*in process of re-think*

The Counter Spell is considered to be permanently under the effect of either protection from chaos, protection from evil, protection from good or protection from law spell. This protection spell is always of an opposite alignment to the Counter Spell themselves (a true neutral Counter Spell must select which protection spell they wish to have active once this ability is gained). Should the characters alignment change for any reason to match that of their protection spell they will no longer be under its effect and must perform a 24 hour ritual before it will reactivate (once again as an opposite to their new alignment). A chaotic evil Counter Spell may opt to have a protection from good or protection from law spell active upon them while a chaotic neutral character may choose protection from law, protection from good or protection from evil (but still not protection from chaos).

[Loren_and_Kivsith]

First of all, it all depends on which of these abilities you're going to give at which levels. That is a big factor that influences game balance.

Another point; you seem to be equating domains and schools. Schools tend to have /a lot/ more spells than domains do, so nobody in their right mind is going to pick a domain to counter or be immune to (unless their DM constantly throws clerics of that domain at them). Instead, perhaps you could say, "Pick nine spells, one of each level, that you can counter/are immune to" You could add the stipulation that these spells have to be of the same domain or the same school, if you'd like.

[kanachi]

thanks for the reply :)

basicly i'm not quite sure which level you get the abilities at exactly (apart from counter spell which is your primary ability at 1st level)

you would probably get counter school or domain 3 times during your progression. (6th, 11th and 16th level??)

school or domain imunity would probably work the same. (8th, 13th and 18th level??)

spell twist would probably come into play at about 12th-15th level

aura of protection could be anywhere between 17th-20th level.

I'm thining of giving the class a rouge BAB and maybe 3 good saves (like the monk) and probably d8 hit points. Apart from that i was also thinking of giving some kind of ability that lets then have a % chance of removing a targets buffs if they hit.

see what you guys think though.

[Peregrine]

Counter spell

A Counter Spell may select a single target within 30 feet as a free action, during any portion of her turn. Once selected the target suffers a 50% miscast chance on all spells or spell like effects they attempt. Even if the targets spell or spell like effect is successful they have a 50% chance of being countered at the start of each subsequent round they are active.
Instant 50% spell failure? This needs a saving throw, an opposed caster level check, a Concentration check to negate, or all of the above, and then it still might be too powerful.


Should the Counter Spell opt change her target she will no longer be able to inflict this chance of failure upon the spells or spell like effects of her previous target.
Clarify. Never again affect that target, ever? Or just not until you designate them again, which I think is your intention?


Should the target gain total concealment or move into a position where they are no longer visible this ability will cease to function.
Just say you need line of sight at all times for it to work.


Counter School or Domain
What Loren and Kisvith said.


School or Domain immunity
Hugely powerful. I think. (If applied to schools anyway. Again, domains, not so much.)


She could however transform the individual effect of a mass inflict light wounds spell into a cure light wounds spell though this effect would not extend to anyone else other than the Counter Spell themselves.
Aww, but it'd be funny to convert the enemy's mass cure serious wounds into mass inflict serious wounds... ;D


A chaotic evil Counter Spell may opt to have a protection from good or protection from law spell active upon them while a chaotic neutral character may choose protection from law, protection from good or protection from evil (but still not protection from chaos).
I would've thought they'd have to take protection from law, specifically. Also note that this does most of the work of School Immunity against Enchantment, since protection from... blocks all charms and compulsions.

Lastly, I worry that the concept of the class will be unappealing. Your entire purpose is to annoy enemy spellcasters? It's worse than being a bandaid-box cleric, or a bard. Players are not going to feel very heroic playing this class. As an NPC though, it's going to have players howling for blood...

[kanachi]

Instant 50% spell failure? This needs a saving throw, an opposed caster level check, a Concentration check to negate, or all of the above, and then it still might be too powerful.

Your probably right but please bare in mind that this class is suposed to win 1-on-1 in general against a pure spell cater. That is its purpose, the class is not suposed to be easy for spell casters to defeat!

Spell casters tend to get alot their own way with all the spells they have at their disposell, at high level (as we all know) the magic user far out strips the rest of the party and this class (yes it is mainly a NPC class) is suposed to offer them a challenge and hopefully allow the rest of the party a chance to shine. If used as a PC its probably going to be more of a mage slaying specialist class, useful for high magic settings.

None the less I agree and will change it to pass concentration check or spell failure which is far more realistic anyway.


Clarify. Never again affect that target, ever? Or just not until you designate them again, which I think is your intention?

yer that is my intention i will clarify, thanks :)


Just say you need line of sight at all times for it to work.

Will do!


Hugely powerful. I think. (If applied to schools anyway. Again, domains, not so much.)

Being immune to a single domain is only over powering against spell casters (which is the point of the class) none the less though this does not cripple a mage as badly as a few well place spells can against a fighter for example. Hopefully a mage would turn to his allies to defeat such a foe while he/she concentrated on whatever allies the Counter Spell had.


Aww, but it'd be funny to convert the enemy's mass cure serious wounds into mass inflict serious wounds...

lol i was tempted! I thought about making a class once that could absorb a spell of a specific school and convert it into a spell from an opposing school of magic and spontaniously cast it. Anyway it would be cool but very uber.


I would've thought they'd have to take protection from law, specifically. Also note that this does most of the work of School Immunity against Enchantment, since protection from... blocks all charms and compulsions.

A valid point. I'll rethink or remove this.


Lastly, I worry that the concept of the class will be unappealing. Your entire purpose is to annoy enemy spellcasters? It's worse than being a bandaid-box cleric, or a bard. Players are not going to feel very heroic playing this class. As an NPC though, it's going to have players howling for blood...

It will mainly an NPC class, but i dont see any reason a PC couldn't be made, as you say though it would be perhaps to specialised for anything but an adventure involving alot of magic (if your DM is so inclined)

[fangthane]

Is the dispel check on a preferred-school spell applicable as a counterspell on the casting which allowed it? If you do allow multiple schools (I'll take Enchantment and Evocation, thanks) do the daily usages total the cha modifier each, or combined?

Can you imagine the power (especially against stuff like Outsiders) of a character specced in Evo and Enchantment, immune to fireballs and with a permanent Protection from Evil? Give the guy decent armor and an evil-outsider bane sword and let him go to town...

Alternatively, give him Tumbling, immunity to evocation, Protection from (whatever alignment your casters happen to be) and dodge/mobility/spring and send him against the party. :)

Interesting ideas, to be sure, but the balance seems to need a bit of a tweak.