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Zergrusheddie
2009-03-10, 01:43 AM
As our primary group has been sucked into the void that is LOTRO, another player has offered to DM. He loves to surprise people with different campaigns, so all players will be Bugbears. I figured a Bugbear Barbarian would be pretty neat, but this is coming from someone who: A) Is a character design idiot (view other posts for examples) and B) Has never played a Barbarian before.

Starting at ECL 5 means Barbarian 4 with 4 feats. I figured something like a Greataxe Power Attacker would be highly effective. However, I've also been wondering about trying something slightly different and taking Bear Totem Barbarian, mostly just because the whole Bugbear thing. Any suggestions would be highly appreciated .

Animefunkmaster
2009-03-10, 01:49 AM
Quick note: Bugbear have 3hd, and a LA of 1, ecl 5 means you will have a single class level.

Two Simple Barbarian routes:

Feat route: look at Shocktrooper (Complete Warrior) Combat Brute (Complete Warrior) and Leap Attack (Complete Adventurer). 2 levels in fighter will help.

PrC Route: Get into Frenzied Berserker (Complete Warrior) ASAP and ride it till mourning (see what I did there).

Combine both as much as you can for a truly fun experience.

Zergrusheddie
2009-03-10, 02:20 AM
Quick note: Bugbear have 3hd, and a LA of 1, ecl 5 means you will have a single class level.


Damn, forgot to add the HD. Thanks for that one.

Yes, I'm looking into the Shock Trooper idea. Fighter dip would help, but it may not be possible as Bugbears favored are Rogues. I'll be sure to ask the DM to waive that issue.

Thanks for the advice.
-Eddie

TheCountAlucard
2009-03-10, 02:37 AM
See if you can use LA buyoff when you get the chance, though.

Zergrusheddie
2009-03-10, 02:44 AM
See if you can use LA buyoff when you get the chance, though.

I have already sent the SRD excerpt to the DM :smallwink:

Hadrian_Emrys
2009-03-10, 02:47 AM
If we're looking at a low op game, might I suggest the Bear Totem Barbarian that goes Bear Warrior? It's just absurd enough to be enjoyable. If possible, the Feral template would just add that much more to an already daft concept.

Zergrusheddie
2009-03-10, 03:21 AM
If we're looking at a low op game, might I suggest the Bear Totem Barbarian that goes Bear Warrior? It's just absurd enough to be enjoyable. If possible, the Feral template would just add that much more to an already daft concept.

I was thinking of Bear Warrior mostly because Bugbears are nearly animals, but are Bear Warriors actually any good? Why go Claw-Claw-Bite if you can go Power Attack Greataxe?

Hadrian_Emrys
2009-03-10, 03:42 AM
Str enhanced grapple (plus rake, on a charge no less, if Feral is a go) dishes out good damage and ties up a foe's action(s, depending on their Str/size). It also is thematically sound. Ad for the Bear Warrior class, it's more decent than top tier. However, seeing as how this is something of a silly theme for a game, I get the impression that peak char op isn't really going to be needed.

Zergrusheddie
2009-03-10, 06:27 AM
Bah. Only books allowed are DMG, PHB1 and 2, and MM1 and 2, so I'm now wondering if a Barbarian is the best option. The only classes allowed are Cleric, Barbarian, Fighter, Rogue, Ranger, and Sorcerer. I think this may very well be a massive 'optimization' (I use the term extremely loosely) challenge. ANY ideas would be extremely appreciated.

Neithan
2009-03-10, 06:45 AM
With a bugbear barbarian, you can't do too much wrong.
You have +4 to Str, +2 Dex and +2 Con.
Though I'm usually not a fan of this, I would pick the biggest weapon I can get my hands on and take the Power Attack feat. If I would play such a character, I would also take Improved Bull Rush. While raging, you can smash those punny humans and elves into walls or over cliffs as you like.
I'd put Intelligence at least at 10 or even 12, which is not a problem with a bugbears racial adjustments. You get a couple of skill points, which I would use to max out Climb and Jump and maybe also Swim.

While raging, this should be the ultimate form of terror: A huge hairy giant with a foaming maw, that simply jumps over the moat and scales the baricades within seconds and cleaves soldiers in two left and right. ^^

The Glyphstone
2009-03-10, 08:58 AM
I was thinking of Bear Warrior mostly because Bugbears are nearly animals, but are Bear Warriors actually any good? Why go Claw-Claw-Bite if you can go Power Attack Greataxe?

Because you don't.:smallsmile: Proper Bear Warriors don't go Claw-Claw-Bite, they go Claw-Claw-Mouthpick Power Attack Greataxe.:smallsmile:

Animefunkmaster
2009-03-10, 03:27 PM
With your books allowed in mind:

Straight barbarian is not a bad thing at all, given the situation. Maybe a dip in feat rogue (assuming the srd variant is available) to give you some fighter feats and skills for UMD.

So here is one thing I am thinking about (Variants if possible, assumeing LA is nixed):
Bugbear 3/Wolf Totem Barbarian 2

Feats:
1)Exotic Weapon Prof Spiked Chain
3)Combat Reflexes
Barbarian: Improved Trip

You can either ride this out with barbarian, or dip into rogue and attempt to get some UMD for enlarge person wands. I would continue with power attack and maybe finish with whilrwind attack or some improved versions of spring attack (Hint: Jump is part of a move action and is a class skill X3).

Other thoughts:
-Blackguard, power attack and sunder and cleave seem like a no brainer for a melee person (so easy pre reqs), this gives spells bonus to saves, sneak attack, a minion, and eventually the ability to gnab some very weak undead under your control. Could be fun. I have always liked the Aura of Despair as an untyped no save, no action, penalty to saves.
-Werebear, originally thinking of bear warrior and how interesting it would be to be an awakened bear, druidic avenger/bear warrior/primeval. Be a bear, wildshaped into a bear, raging in bear form, shapchanged into a direbear, casting curse of the were bear... lols. But seriously, were-bears rule. Afflicted black bear is more within your reach than the standard brown bear (but doesn't give nearly as many buffs or the size). Lycanthropy should be something to think about.
-Duskblades: I tend to be against them in favor of traditional gishes but in this circumstance they could do some good. Rage is fleeting with a barbarian, and with duskblade you will have more spells to throw around (and umd) than a barbarian has rages per day. Could be a good lead in for a dip in blackguard (but you lose 5th level spells).

Lets see other gish options are bugbear3/Wizard 6/Eldritch knight 10/+Humanoid
That would grant 16 bab and just shy of 9th level spells.

I think the barbarian option can be fun, lycanthropy even more fun. If you want a highly optimized your looking at Codzilla, maybe a wizard or gish. What do you want to play?

KillianHawkeye
2009-03-10, 04:25 PM
While it sounds like an interesting idea, lycanthropy is simply out of reach for a Bugbear at ECL 5. A black bear would add 3 more HD as well as the +2 (or +3) LA from the Lycanthrope template, making this a minimum of 9th level character (or 8th level if the DM allows buying off the Bugbear's +1 LA before acquiring the Lycanthrope template). And that's not even including any class levels at all.

Actually, come to think of it, I'm pretty sure that it requires class levels, and not racial Hit Dice, to be able to buy off LA at all. So this would be at least a 9th level character before class levels.

It would be cool, though... :smallamused:

Devils_Advocate
2009-03-11, 04:51 AM
Since everyone is playing the same race anyway, you might ask your DM if he would be willing to lower the LA to 0 right off the bat, maybe starting you at ECL 4 instead (so still just one class level). That would be quite balanced if he also only gave you the normal 1st-level starting gold for your respective classes, which would fit nicely with the whole savage primitive monster theme he seems to be going for.

Sounds like an interesting campaign. I'd probably jump at the chance to play a cleric of Erythnul, just because that gives you the clearest-cut possible motivation to be an adventurer: Killing things and taking their stuff is your religion. Although Ranger would be an interesting choice too, since Scent helps you to get the most out of the track feat. You might even want to consider Track for your Barbarian, if no one is making a Ranger.

Are you allowed to use material from the SRD if it isn't in one of the approved books?

Zergrusheddie
2009-03-11, 05:10 AM
Since everyone is playing the same race anyway, you might ask your DM if he would be willing to lower the LA to 0 right off the bat, maybe starting you at ECL 4 instead (so still just one class level). That would be quite balanced if he also only gave you the normal 1st-level starting gold for your respective classes, which would fit nicely with the whole savage primitive monster theme he seems to be going for.

Sounds like an interesting campaign. I'd probably jump at the chance to play a cleric of Erythnul, just because that gives you the clearest-cut possible motivation to be an adventurer: Killing things and taking their stuff is your religion. Although Ranger would be an interesting choice too, since Scent helps you to get the most out of the track feat. You might even want to consider Track for your Barbarian, if no one is making a Ranger.

Are you allowed to use material from the SRD if it isn't in one of the approved books?

Yes, I just got him to approve a Wolf Totem Barbarian (of the Wolf Clan of course). I was going to try Shock Trooper but I would have ended up liquidating everything while the TWF Ranger hits for 1d8+2 and 1d6+1. This would gives me the Trip feat and later the Tracking feat; since my job as a Barbarian would be to help the village with a hunt, I could Track out the prey and than attempted Trip it as my brethren took the animal down.
I'm thinking Power Attack and EWP for my two feats.

Y'all are awesome.
-Eddie