Aquatic Campaign

[Talya]

I am joining an aquatic D&D campaign. it's certainly not "Core only," but the DM is only allowing base classes from core.

campaign rules here (http://drakul.nsc.xo.net/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=aquaticdd)

So i'm going to play an Ooloi (Think of a star wars twi'lek, but with fins to assist swimming) Druid.

I'm taking Natural Bond at 1 (It won't become useful until 4, but them's the breaks), Initiate of the Depths at 3, (refluffed Initiate of Malar with different spells available), and Natural Spell at 6.

Ooloi get 60' swim speed, +2 wis, -2 cha. I'm thinking base stats of 8 str, 10 dex, 16 con, 12 int, 17 wis, 10 cha.

I've never played a druid at all, let alone one underwater. What feats and spells will I need to be aware of? Any other ideas with regard to this build?

[Kaiyanwang]

Strormwrack has a list of viable animal compainions for acquatic Druids. Maybe can be useful for you.

Druid is fantastic - you have always something to do. Barring Natural spell at 6th, I think that everything else is a matter of taste :smallwink:

I think the first move is see your party members and fill gaps they have with proper spells.

What are the classes of the mebers of your party?

[Talya]

I believe we have a ranger and a sorcerer so far.

My animal companion is a "Juvenile Dolphin" (read: porpoise) at level 1. The DM is going to let me advance it to a full size dolphin (read: Dire Porpoise using the dire animal template in tome of horrors http://www.necromancergames.com/pdf/ToHDire.pdf) at level 4 and treat it as a -3 animal (which is when my natural bond feat will become useful.)

[MammonAzrael]

It sounds like you're pretty solid already. Natural Spell is really the only feat you don't want to ever not take. And you've got a while before having to worry about Wild Shaping.

The Druid's Handbook (revived) (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=733400) has a staggering amount of info you might want to read over, including a great list of suggested spells at the third post. :smallsmile:

[eyefull]

Too bad it is core only. I am having a lot of fun playing a Warlock in an aquatic campaign using the Swim the Styx invocation.

It lets me get around the LA adjustments we are using for aquatic races. However I like the Ooloi Druid idea, level 4 and it is shark time.

ef

[Sstoopidtallkid]

I believe we have a ranger and a sorcerer so far.In that case, I recommend using mostly utility and healing spells to cover for the lack of a Skillmonkey and Cleric out of combat, and mostly letting Wildshape/AC contribute for you in-combat. How optimized a campaign is this?

[Talya]

In that case, I recommend using mostly utility and healing spells to cover for the lack of a Skillmonkey and Cleric out of combat, and mostly letting Wildshape/AC contribute for you in-combat. How optimized a campaign is this?


Well, the sorcerer and ranger are still up in the air.

Anyway, a ranger is something of a skill monkey, even without open lock or trapfinding.

I'm definitely going to heal out of combat (vigor spells are nice that way.)

Optimized? probably not.

[BlueWizard]

A porpoise was used in a campaign I ran, as well as a shark.

[Talya]

Here are the stats on a Dolphin (Dire Porpoise).

Bottlenose Dolphin
Size/Type: Large Animal
Hit Dice: 4d8+20 (38 hp)
Initiative: +3
Speed: Swim 90 ft. (18 squares)
Armor Class: 18 (+3 dex, +6 natural, -1 size), 12 touch, 15 flat-footed
Base Attack/Grapple: +3/+13
Attack: Slam +9 melee (2d6+6)
Full Attack: Slam +9 melee (2d6+6)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./5ft.
Special Attacks: -
Special Qualities: Blindsight 120 ft., hold breath, low-light vision
Saves: Fort +9, Ref + 7, Will +5
Abilities: Str 23, Dex 17, Con 20, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6
Skills: Listen +8*, Spot +8*, Swim +15
Feats: Weapon Focus (Slam), Endurance
Environment: Temperate Aquatic
Organization: Solitary, pair, or pod (3-20)
Challenge Rating: 3
Alignment: Always Neutral
Advancement: 5-12 HD (large)
Level Adjustment: -

Blindsight (Ex)
Dolphins can "see" by emitting high-frequency sounds, inaudible to most other creatures, that allow them to locate objects and creatures within 120 feet. A silence spell negates this and forces the dolphin to rely on its vision, which is approximately as good as a human’s.

Hold Breath (Ex)
A dolphin can hold its breath for a number of rounds equal to 6 × its Constitution score before it risks drowning.

Skills
A dolphin has a +8 racial bonus on any Swim check to perform some special action or avoid a hazard. It can always choose to take 10 on a Swim check, even if distracted or endangered. It can use the run action while swimming, provided it swims in a straight line.

*A dolphin has a +4 racial bonus on Spot and Listen checks. These bonuses are lost if its blindsight is negated.

[Kol Korran]

i'm not that good at builds, but i do study "some" marine biology. so a few questions, as well as suggestions:
1- are you guys doing just shallow water (up to 60m/200ft) or more? if you go lower there are a few importent considerations (depending how "real" you play):

- the temperature drops considerably beneath 30/40 m / 100 ft. as a druid some simple protection spells are great.

- colors fade until you got shades od purple and black. so either have darkvision or bring your own light. be prepared to become the target of everything that can see if you do!

- some of your animal companions and animal forms can't travel well below a certain depth, particularily the mammels (dolphins and whales mostly) the pressure (and perhaps the lack of air) just kills them. that said- some whales live their entire lives going from the shallows to the depths (e.g the grey whale) and those could be usefull. sharks are much more versatyle in that regard.

2- animal companions, shapes, and summons. the dolphin, shark and whale are sure ways to go, but a few other interesting ideas (i don't have the statistics, but in an aquatic campaign i'm sure you'll make some new material:

- cephalopods: i'm talking about octopuses and squids. they have quite a few amazing abilities: their eyes are better than mammles, so i guess a good spot check. octpuses can squeeze into the littlest holes, so they can be sneaky. change of color gives a great hide bonus. as to battles- excellent grapple (+ constrict), the ink jet of octopuses can save you from a tight spot (instant darkness?), and a little known fact about squids, the tiny ones... fisherman in the atlantic (and pacific) are far more afraid of squid swarms (they come to feed at the surface each night, rising from the depths) then they are of sharks. squid swarms attack en mass and completly obletirate any meat they eat. and of course at higher level there is the giant octopus/ squid.

- sea snakes: the most dangerous venoms on earth belong to the sea snakes (i might be wrong about that, but if they're not at the top they come pretty darn close). sea snake are also tiny, hard to hit, and very sneaky when they need to be.

- schools of fish (this is mostly for summons): swarms are alwsy a good disraction, plus they can block sight, attract a hungry animal/ Magical beast, and if the fish bite (swarms of baracudas anyone) they can be a bloody terror onb their own. swarms immunities make them a tough opponent to beat. i know there is some feat enabling to take swarm forms when shapeshifting, it might be worth your time.

- swarms of jellyfish. especially the hightly poisoneous ones. for the same reason as swarms.

- giant crabs: fairly tough armor for a melee combatant, good grapple and damage. a mediocre- good melee form when shifting and on the ground. some crabs also swim through water but they have poor movememnt and maneuverability.

- sponges: um, an odd choice i know (and yes, they are animals), but they can absorb and digest nearly any material, including many poisons. if you're ever in a place filled with poison, these might help a lot (they must have a solid base to sit on though)

3- since i saw it at a similar campaign once- are you using the flight rules for underwater maneuverability of some aquatic forms? (whales for example). i hope you don't, it bogs the game down.

one last suggestion, to you but mostly for your DM- watch the "blue planet" series by the BBC, its quite educating about marine life (seas and oceans and more). it would get you in the mood at least. oh, and the takes there are simply astounding!

(if you have any more questions, let me know. i might not know myself, but chances are that i know someone that does)
Kol

[Talya]

i'm not that good at builds, but i do study "some" marine biology.

You're awesome.


so a few questions, as well as suggestions:
1- are you guys doing just shallow water (up to 60m/200ft) or more? if you go lower there are a few importent considerations (depending how "real" you play):

Probably will be some very deep water, although i suspect the 20-60m depth as a standard will be the norm.


- the temperature drops considerably beneath 30/40 m / 100 ft. as a druid some simple protection spells are great.

I don't think we're going to be worrying that much about that.


Colors fade until you got shades od purple and black. so either have darkvision or bring your own light. be prepared to become the target of everything that can see if you do!

Ooloi have darkvision. Listening Lorecall gives me blindsight. Dolphins already have blindsight (echolocation).


- some of your animal companions and animal forms can't travel well below a certain depth, particularily the mammels (dolphins and whales mostly) the pressure (and perhaps the lack of air) just kills them. that said- some whales live their entire lives going from the shallows to the depths (e.g the grey whale) and those could be usefull. sharks are much more versatyle in that regard.

I don't think he's going to worry much about pressure, but the air is a concern. Druids have several spells to help with that, but it's a tradeoff I'm willing to make. I absolutely adore cetaceans, particularly Delphinidae, and Tursiops specifically. I don't think d20 models their intelligence well, but if it did, they'd be unavailable as druid companions (as sentient creatures are not "animals.")


2- animal companions, shapes, and summons. the dolphin, shark and whale are sure ways to go, but a few other interesting ideas (i don't have the statistics, but in an aquatic campaign i'm sure you'll make some new material:

- cephalopods: i'm talking about octopuses and squids. they have quite a few amazing abilities: their eyes are better than mammles, so i guess a good spot check. octpuses can squeeze into the littlest holes, so they can be sneaky. change of color gives a great hide bonus. as to battles- excellent grapple (+ constrict), the ink jet of octopuses can save you from a tight spot (instant darkness?), and a little known fact about squids, the tiny ones... fisherman in the atlantic (and pacific) are far more afraid of squid swarms (they come to feed at the surface each night, rising from the depths) then they are of sharks. squid swarms attack en mass and completly obletirate any meat they eat. and of course at higher level there is the giant octopus/ squid.

- sea snakes: the most dangerous venoms on earth belong to the sea snakes (i might be wrong about that, but if they're not at the top they come pretty darn close). sea snake are also tiny, hard to hit, and very sneaky when they need to be.

- schools of fish (this is mostly for summons): swarms are alwsy a good disraction, plus they can block sight, attract a hungry animal/ Magical beast, and if the fish bite (swarms of baracudas anyone) they can be a bloody terror onb their own. swarms immunities make them a tough opponent to beat. i know there is some feat enabling to take swarm forms when shapeshifting, it might be worth your time.

- swarms of jellyfish. especially the hightly poisoneous ones. for the same reason as swarms.

- giant crabs: fairly tough armor for a melee combatant, good grapple and damage. a mediocre- good melee form when shifting and on the ground. some crabs also swim through water but they have poor movememnt and maneuverability.

- sponges: um, an odd choice i know (and yes, they are animals), but they can absorb and digest nearly any material, including many poisons. if you're ever in a place filled with poison, these might help a lot (they must have a solid base to sit on though)

3- since i saw it at a similar campaign once- are you using the flight rules for underwater maneuverability of some aquatic forms? (whales for example). i hope you don't, it bogs the game down.

one last suggestion, to you but mostly for your DM- watch the "blue planet" series by the BBC, its quite educating about marine life (seas and oceans and more). it would get you in the mood at least. oh, and the takes there are simply astounding!

(if you have any more questions, let me know. i might not know myself, but chances are that i know someone that does)
Kol


Neat suggestions. Stormwrack actually has swarms of jellyfish as an encounter. Giant Crabs are horribly broken from what I understand, but fortunately cannot swim so we can escape them.

I suggested to the DM a new spell called "Inky Cloud" based on Obscuring mist. Obscuring Mist doesn't work under water. Inky Cloud doesn't work out of water.

[Kol Korran]

I don't think he's going to worry much about pressure, but the air is a concern. Druids have several spells to help with that, but it's a tradeoff I'm willing to make. I absolutely adore cetaceans, particularly Delphinidae, and Tursiops specifically. I don't think d20 models their intelligence well, but if it did, they'd be unavailable as druid companions (as sentient creatures are not "animals.")


i personally am a fan of cephalopods (i think that was clear from my last post), who are amazingly intelligent, observent, and even have a language of sorts (some species at least). my other passion is surprisingly echinoderms. i think brittle stars and sea urchins are fascinating (we all have our little quirks). just thought to share since it's rare to find a gamer that can relate.

have fun with your campaign, from the few posts i've seen you on you seem to generally do... (that was a crappy sentence structure) ;smallwink;

if you're gonna descend into the depths (chasing a kraken or something) please share with us. the abyss is one of the most "adventure fitting" settings on earth IMHO.

(oh, and if you're ever in Israel, let me know, i'll tell you of all the good diving places) bye,
Kol

[Kaiyanwang]

my other passion is surprisingly echinoderms. i think brittle stars and sea urchins are fascinating (we all have our little quirks). just thought to share since it's rare to find a gamer that can relate.



Why surprisingly? Echinoderms are fascinating. The most interesting thing about echinoderms is they symmetry switch.

Another thing I found very interesting is the defense methods of Holothurians.

IN TOPIC: Talya, couldn't you consider the whole Dolphin race as "awakened", in some extent, in ancient times?

This could lead to imbalances, but if you are fine, you could find in game explanation for an intelligence higher than the one listed (if I understood well)

[Starshade]

Ooloi? taken from a book, Lilith's Brood, Octavia Butler?
Not read it, but sounds interesting if it is. :smallsmile:

Hm, about Echinoderms, didnt Elder Things from Lovecraftian Mythos exist in some old D&D version? Intelligent amphibious flying sea creatures, reminding of a mix of sea creatures, with odd axial symmetry.

[Talya]

No, these ooloi are from Legends & lairs mythic races. They're cetacean-like humanoid creatures (but fully aquatic.)

Doesn't matter. I'm entirely changing this build now.

I'm going mermaid (Mermaids in this campaign are basically humans of the sea...50' swim speed, 5' land speed, bonus feat, bonus skill points, no ability modifiers).

Taking Sacred Vow, Vow of Poverty, Nymph's Kiss at level 1. Druids have a truckload of useful exalted feats that i'll get for free as I level (normal feats in brackets)-
1. (Sacred Vow, Vow of Poverty) Nymph's Kiss
2. Exalted Companion
3. (Natural Bond)
4. Animal Friend
6. (Natural Spell) Intuitive Attack
8. Exalted Wildshape
9. (Initiate of the Seven Seas)
10. Touch of Golden Ice
12. Sanctify Natural Attack (& some non-exalted feat)

[Talya]

So here's what I've got:

http://www.thetangledweb.net/forums/profiler/view_char.php?cid=23589

Saoine (pronounced SHEE'-neh ... damn us Irish for never getting the hang of phonetic spelling) as an adolescent enountered an Ocean Strider (http://dnd.wikia.com/wiki/Ocean_strider) (MM2)raining down retribution upon a fishing vessel. While she watched in horror, she noticed a driftnet on the sea-bed near the fishing vessel, and three bottlenose dolphins (two adults, one calf) were trapped in it. She struggled to free them, and while she got the calf free, she wasn't strong enough to get the other two dolphins free. Finally, the ocean strider, now finished dispensing justice, noticed her, and came over to help. Sadly, it was too late for the dolphins. Still, the ocean strider (which had a level in druid to go with its 30 fey hit dice) decided she had what was needed in order to be a protector of the sea, and decided to take her under his wing.

From that point, the juvenile dolphin (see plans for animal companion) that she rescued never left her side. She would never quite see eye-to-eye with her mentor though (and that's not only because he's 20 feet tall and can walk on the water.) While the ocean strider, named Oloc, was a merciless protector of the ocean from exploitation, Saoine always saw things through more compassionate eyes. This turned their discussions into constant, friendly debates. Still, she took one part of his teaching to heart, perhaps more than Oloc himself did. Oloc taught her about how greed was the most devastating force in nature, and it pushed surface dwellers and ocean dwellers alike to do terrible things. Saoine swore an oath to never use more than she needed from the sea. The Sea heard her oath.

Iit soon became apparent Oloc could only teach her so much. While powerful, the strider's druidic abilities were not well developed. Also, it tended to stay in one place, protecting the patch of shallows it had claimed as its own. Saoine and Oloc parted on good terms, both knowing for further growth she would need to travel the ocean.

[Kol Korran]

sounds interesting. a lot of place for character development, in terms of how she interperts the druidic craft. also interestign to see if and how you'll play the growing bond with your dolphin companion.

if possible, keep up posted.
Kol.

[Talya]

Oh, for higher levels --

Touch of Golden Ice, + Wildshape Giant Squid.

With 10 attacks per round, you're going to fail that fort save eventually...

[Triaxx]

Not to mention all the tentacle jokes you can make. ;)

Besides that should have some massive grapple modifiers.