Prestige Class Suggestions

[Vagnarok]

Hello all,
I am running a campaign that's still in its early stages right now, and I would like some input as to where to take the class development. I am running a mixture of 3.0/.5 rules, and I am keeping it pretty low powered so that I can improve their characters through quest items and permanent stat boosts and such.

Soon they'll all be level 4 or 5 and I'll be ready to begin offering prestige classes. The PCs are all pretty new to DnD; they aren't really comfortable researching new classes themselves. And so I come to the Giantitp forums to ask for your help.

I need some cool prestige classes for a ranger, paladin, rogue and cleric.

The cleric has healing and fire as his domains (he's a circle of life kinda guy). His focus is primarily healing though.

The rogue is a pretty standard one focusing on ranged combat
The ranger is also going the ranged combat route, but he often switches to sword (s) to back up the tank.
The Paladin has some crazy stats (legit rolled) that's kind of throwing the party out of balance, but I'm working on evening it out. He wields a great sword and is going for a very melee heavy build.

I ask that the prestige classes not have many offensive spell capabilities as that kind of magic is rare in this campaign.

One last thing: I ask that the classes don't depend on specific items to function. It's ok if it's a build that requires a good weapon or something, but not a class that sucks unless you have boots of haste (for example).

[Egiam]

Well, Thaumaturgist (DMG) is good for low-level clerics. If he is a dwarf Complete adventurer has the Ollam.
For ranger, Horizon walker is an option, or the book Complete Adventurer is good for PRCS for them. These include Highland stalker and Wild plains outrider. I can't really remember well but I think Complete Warrior would also help.

C. adventurer is also chock full of prestige classes for Rogues such as thief-acrobat, master thrower, and loads more.

[Dyllan]

For the Ranger, I wouldn't suggest a prestige class. My suggestion would be to take some levels in Scout, and then take the feat that allows ranger levels to stack with scout levels for skirmish progression.

Then, just keep progressing in Ranger. Skirmish is always good for an archer, and that kind of build ups his power without making him overpowered.

[Frog Dragon]

You could look into Greyguard (Paladin CSCO)
And Master of Masks (Rogue CSCO) which is a seriously cool class. Greyguard allows more leeway on the paladin code
The Ranger might like Beastmaster (CADV)

Just my two cents.

[Eldariel]

For Cleric, I definitely suggest Radiant Servant of Pelor [Complete Divine] reflavoured to whatever deity he serves; it's really the healing PrC. It has some anti-undead abilities so if those don't fit, just toss them in favour of something appropriate to his deity. The other option is Combat Medic [Heroes of Battle], but it's from a bit more obscure source book and has really crappy prerequisites (Dodge & Combat Casting? WTF?).

Rogue is pretty fine without PrCs and indeed always loses something for something else when PrCing; there are no "OMG" PrCs every Rogue should have. If he's focused on ranged combat though, you could probably interest him in e.g. Master Thrower (if he's into thrown weapons, not bows; for bows, there are really no good PrCs available as they all have low skills).

Ranger should look into the mentioned Scout + Swift Hunter multiclass or alternatively Deepwood Sniper [Masters of the Wild] - a 3.0 Prestige Class, but a very playable one at that and works fine for a ranged Ranger.

For the Paladin, I'd consider looking into Ordained Champion [Complete Champion] reflavoured for whatever deity he serves (as long as it's a deity of war) or the mentioned Gray Guard [Complete Scoundrel].

[BlueWizard]

Then there's me who enjoys no prestige classes until really high levels.

[Os1ris09]

For the Ranger I would suggest Dervish if you go the Scout way. OR order of the bow initiate from Complete Warrior. That class adds 1d8 every odd lvl or so to your bow dmg. Not to powerful when you get to higher lvls but makes the bow be able to overcome DR alot easier. For the rogue/cleric/paladin (ugh I hate that class no freedom what so ever I play evil guys lol hence belkar) take the advice from above. Personally for the rogue maybe get him to take some order of the bow initiate class because somewhere in that progression he can sneak attack from 60ft away instead of thirty. Maybe those are wasted lvls but the dmg and 60ft can go a long way for a rogue. Cleric radiant servant of Pelor. No advice for the paladin due to having no experience with one and no knowledge on how to play LG. like I said I play evil and kill pc's for a living. :smallbiggrin: Quite literally and IM A PC. Lol kill your own party and sell their stuff.:smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

[woodenbandman]

For the Ranger I would suggest Dervish if you go the Scout way. OR order of the bow initiate from Complete Warrior. That class adds 1d8 every odd lvl or so to your bow dmg. Not to powerful when you get to higher lvls but makes the bow be able to overcome DR alot easier. For the rogue/cleric/paladin (ugh I hate that class no freedom what so ever I play evil guys lol hence belkar) take the advice from above. Personally for the rogue maybe get him to take some order of the bow initiate class because somewhere in that progression he can sneak attack from 60ft away instead of thirty. Maybe those are wasted lvls but the dmg and 60ft can go a long way for a rogue. Cleric radiant servant of Pelor. No advice for the paladin due to having no experience with one and no knowledge on how to play LG. like I said I play evil and kill pc's for a living. :smallbiggrin: Quite literally and IM A PC. Lol kill your own party and sell their stuff.:smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

Order of the Bow Initiate is really bad because it adds 1d8 per two levels but takes a standard action to fire that shot, meaning rapid shot, hasted full attacks are totally out. If the rangers uses TWF I suggest a level of Barbarian for pounce followed by the Swift Hunter progression, and if he uses range then Horizon Watcher is okay, Cragtop Archer could be another though I admit I have no clue what it does, I've only heard of it. Master Thrower could have potential, as well as just continuing ranger because they get some decent fourth level spells.

That cleric could definitely use some Radiant Servant of Pelor, though since he has Fire domain he COULD do something to control creatures of fire, such as take, as previously suggested, Thaumaturgist and get a planar cohort such as an Azer or some other fire thing.

The paladin could maybe use some Ruby Knight Vindicator come high level. Also, for him, look at Battle Blessing and Sword of the Arcane Order.

[Vagnarok]

Thanks for the help guys. My new problem is that I don't have much of a DnD budget and I don't have access to much outside the core stuff. Where could I find the classes mentioned for free/cheap?

I'm also open to homebrew suggestions that aren't ridiculously over powered ;)

[Accersitus]

You could try to make some of your own Prestige Classes. If you can tailor them to your setting, they can become more than just a way to optimize the characters.

[Eldariel]

Your best bet is this:
A guide to free D&D (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1109.0)

All material legally released for free is compiled there. You could also check out Crystalkeep as they have some listings, but unfortunately the Prestige Class-listings are (probably for legal reasons) incomplete. Other than that, there're always free methods of acquisition, but that part is up to you.

[dspeyer]

Your rogue might appreciate the Assassin prestige class. Just refluff it to fit his alignment.

I also endorse swift hunter for the ranger. After that, dervish or spirit-lion-totem barbarian may be useful if he becomes more meleeish. If he stays ranged, he might want sudden leap, travel devotion, or any of the free movement powers that have been listed in previous threads.

Both ranged characters will benefit from the greater manyshot feat (included in the psionics handbook, but has nothing to do with psionics).

The paladin might find Tome of Battle interesting, but if he's already overpowered, maybe you should hide that.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

My two cents:

The best PrC for Cleric is... more Cleric. Honestly, unless he is wanting to do something specifically cool, this rocks pretty hard.

for Rogue, going ranged... maybe Nightsong Infiltrator from Complete Adventurer. The whole class is about helping out the party, but at the same time, being pretty cool yourself. Failing that, I would say Shadowdancer for the Hide in Plain Sight, only that is heavy on the feats. Typically, I go melee rogue, so YMMV.

For the Paladin, the best bet is to get OUT of Paladin after level 4 at the latest. Suggest a 2 level dip in Fighter for some extra feats, then look around for a good melee-oriented PrC for him to feel comfortable in. Pious Templar from Complete Divine is a natural one for him to slide into, and lets him get Mettle, which is pretty handy. Shining Blade of whatshisname, also from Complete Divine, is also pretty good about handing out goodies but costing him half his casting progression.

For the Ranger... either Scout, as suggested, or... more Ranger. Camo + Hide in Plain Sight = a lot of potential for ambush. Maybe 5 levels into Horizion Walker for Dimension Door so he gets extra mobility.

[Leon]

Thanks for the help guys. My new problem is that I don't have much of a DnD budget and I don't have access to much outside the core stuff. Where could I find the classes mentioned for free/cheap?

I'm also open to homebrew suggestions that aren't ridiculously over powered ;)

Is there a pressing need to have a PrC?
As others have said some classes are good without a PrC but sometimes a PrC is what you need to make your PC fit, depends on what the player's want - forcing a PrC on them may not work out for the best.

Talk to the players and find out where they think the PC is headed and workout some suggestion off that.
Being limited to Core is ok, there are a decent selection of PrCs in the DMG - as your the DM you can alter the rules to suit your game if someone wants a PrC that wont otherwise fit properly (Eg - Assassin or Dwarf Defender)

[Kaiyanwang]

I'd second the riadiant servant of Pelor for the Cleric. It's functional for the role, and even for the (re)fluff. I mean, you say healing (positive energy, life) and fire, I think Sun.

For the others, If the ranger is going mainly on ranged combat, why don't continue ranger?* There is a plenty of good ranger spell for archery.

*Or take a class that allows to keep such spell as well.

[VirOath]

Well, I can offer something for the rogue.

If he is speccing for Ranged, then The Order of the Bow Initiate (CWar) would be a good choice. It provides a 'Ranged Precision' bonus that adds a 1d8 on levels 1/3/5/7/9 (Standard action/can't full attack, stacks with sneak attack[If the target is denied his dex] AND manyshot [DM's discretion, Greater Manyshot will provide each arrow the bonus precision damage sources, normal manyshot only gives it to the first arrow]), Close combat shot (No negatives or AoO for shooting while in melee) but it's skill points suck at 2+int. So if he's got a good Int and his trap monkey abilities are above par at the moment, a bit of dipping into it can help his combat abilities. And it also will extend the range of precision damage from 30ft to 60ft at level 10. Otherwise Master of Masks, or look into the CAdv for one of it's about 20 rogue PrCs (One even gives allies a sneak attack bonus, rather than boosting their own... Yeah, I'm a rogue freak, and I believe the rogue is one of the few classes you can get away with having the entire party being).

The rogue is one of the hardest to pick, because there are so many paths for him to pick. But don't go min/max on this, find which PrC best suits his character RP wise, because that will be the most fun (and more often than not, one of the better PrCs for his playstyle.)

If the Ranger is going Shot On the Run tree, then the ranger16/scout4 build with the feat out of CSCO will give him a great boost. But if he is aiming to be a Legolas with Manyshot, then the PrC described might suit him if he doesn't care for his spell list.

[Eldariel]

If he is speccing for Ranged, then The Order of the Bow Initiate (CWar) would be a good choice. It provides a 'Ranged Precision' bonus that adds a 1d8 on levels 1/3/5/7/9 (Standard action/can't full attack, stacks with sneak attack[If the target is denied his dex] AND manyshot [DM's discretion, Greater Manyshot will provide each arrow the bonus precision damage sources, normal manyshot only gives it to the first arrow])

Unfortunately, this doesn't work. Manyshot is a separate standard action, as is Ranged Precision. You can either take Ranged Precision shot or Manyshot, but you cannot combine them in any meaningful way, which is principally why Ranged Precision is a completely worthless class feature. Of course, if DM houserules them together, it's much better and even better if DM houserules you can use Ranged Precision with full attack. Otherwise the 3.5 version of Order of the Bow Initiate in general is completely worthless; if you're interested in a class like that, look at the Sword & Fist version of the same class. That one is pretty good.

That said, I wouldn't suggest it for a Rogue either. Rogue is defined by its skills. Order gets 2+Int skillpoints per level. Not for Rogue. Same goes for Assassin, frankly; 4+Int is just a sad, sad bunch compared to the 8+Int normally enjoyed by a Rogue. Really, that's the problem with PrCing out of the Rogue; you either lose Sneak Attack or skillpoints. Either way, something really substantial.

[VirOath]

I know, it's why I added the DM discretion tag to it. The campaign I played that in did house rule it in. And like I said, it depends on your Int score at the time. I was playing a skill bot from the start, managed to grab an Int Tome before branching out into that PrC for a few levels before switching back, no real effect on my skill list either since there are some skills that are useful but are pointless to crank to max.

Add the feat that changes sneak attack damage from d6 to d8 against evil creatures and well... you can see. I was quite useful even with a Batman wizard in the party.

But as you said, that PrC ONLY works if standard action stacking in terms that don't contradict eachother is houseruled in by the DM(Manyshot is taking an extra second to notch the extra arrows properly, Precision is aim. No reason why you can't do both, Manyshot doesn't stop a rogue from getting sneak attacks.). Otherwise it is useless.

[Samb]

I personally feel PrCs are a must for all players with the exception of cleric, ranger and druids. With so many out there its like WotC are basically forcing you to.

Rogue PrC that I personally like is Invisible Blade from complete warrior.

Bonus add Int bonus to AC, bleeding attack, +3d6 in 5 levels, take 10 on feints and feint as a swift action, and full BAB. Only drawback is that you lose 20 skill points for the 5 levels you spend here and you have to use a dagger, punching dagger or kurki.

Assassin and ghost-faced killer are other PrCs that are great for rogues but the fact that you need to be evil makes it less available. that feat that allows sudden strike and SA to stack is great for ghost-faced killer.

The Nightsong enforcer is usually a dip class for the extra 1d6 on SA but it is a very viable option. Lets you wear better armor, gives skill check bonuses to all your allies, better flanking for all your allies, gives the opportunist rogue special ability. You will lose skill (40 in total) and 1d6 SA in 10 levels though.

Dervish is another nice option even if it is just for 3-4 levels. With just a 3 level dip you gain dervish dance 2/day, take ten on jump and tumble (vital skills for any rogue), and spring attack. No SA progression makes this only an okay option though. The feat buy in is rather steep but they are feats you will want to pick up anyway, esp mobility since dervish dance provokes AoO every time you move.

Master of masks was mentioned earlier and yes it kicks ass, and easy to qualify for. Only lose 1d6 on SA, at 5th level you can wear two masks at the same time. Again you lose skill and you need some levels in arcane casting to get the full benefits of this class.

[Eldariel]

I know, it's why I added the DM discretion tag to it. The campaign I played that in did house rule it in. And like I said, it depends on your Int score at the time. I was playing a skill bot from the start, managed to grab an Int Tome before branching out into that PrC for a few levels before switching back, no real effect on my skill list either since there are some skills that are useful but are pointless to crank to max.

Well, you're still giving up 6 skill points per level. That's equivalent to 12 points of Int, so unless you've got Int 26 over the usual 14, chances are you'll run out of points; normal Rogue wants to max 11-12 skills which requires Int of 28 to 30 and that's with the Able Learner-feat.

I mean, sure, you can go with a lesser amount of skills, but a Rogue without: Hide/Move Silently, Listen/Spot, Search/Disable Device/Open Luck/Sleight of Hand, Use Magic Device, Sense Motive, Bluff, Disguise, Tumble, Balance & Climb just isn't much of a Rogue (I mean, think of someone living on the streets; unless you can safeguard yourself against other Rogues and have the fundamental Roguish abilities down, you aren't gonna live long). And that's 15 skills, more than basically any Rogue can ever max (and I neglected to mention obvious Rogue-talents like Gather Information & Knowledge (Local)), so I'd be very reluctant to ever give up skillpoints as a Rogue. Admittedly you can ignore Open Lock & Climb with magic, but the rest are still quite relevant.


PrCing out of Rogue means giving up some pivotal part of the class, which is what makes the class so great in the first place. It's really the best designed class in Core 3.5 (save for the lack of any level 20 ability).

[PurinaDragonCho]

Order of the Bow Initiate is really bad because it adds 1d8 per two levels but takes a standard action to fire that shot, meaning rapid shot, hasted full attacks are totally out.

I like the class for the second level ability that lets you use a bow without provoking an AoO. But I probably wouldn't go much further than that.