Changing Energy Type

[caith]

I was wondering what the rules (or if there are any common home brew rules) for changing the energy type of a spell at learning. For example a Sorceror learning the spell Ray of Frost as Ray of Fire or Lightning? I understand there is a feat but it's a little more expansive than what I'm looking to do, which is learning a spell with an altered energy type and only using it in that way...

[Kris Strife]

I'll take a crack at this, but its my first homebrew:

Freezing Ray: As Searing Ray but deals ice based damage.

Like that?

[caith]

Basically, but are there rules for this kind of thing? I couldn't really find much in my searchings...

[Kris Strife]

Rule 0. Just talk to your DM about it.

[Keld Denar]

Yea, there are rules for researching new spells. You are basically researching a new spell that is similar to the old one, just a different energy type, so it should be easy research. Failing that, check the various splat books. I know Fireball has an [Electric] clone called Scintilating Sphere in Spell Compendium.

[Townopolis]

Yeah, this sort of thing is pretty much up to the DM. I personally don't see much of a reason not to allow it.

The only reason that might be raised is that not all energy types are made equal. Fire, for example, is the weakest energy type due to lots of monsters having resistance or immunity to fire, including (I believe) the most powerful dragons. For this reason, your DM might have issue with allowing you to alter the energy type, saying that fireball (for example) is only balanced against lightning bolt because it deals a weaker energy type.

I find this kind of weak, a weakness of the game's design, and step around it by light homebrew. I often alter energy types and resistances and the like in my monsters, mostly in an attempt to make all energy types roughly equal. Because of this, I would have no problem allowing you to learn any elemental energy spell with an alternate element. However, as mentioned above, your DM may feel otherwise.

[The Neoclassic]

Just talk to your DM about it.

Bingo.

Just make sure you have some sort of rationale. If you are a sorcerer who's lived in a desert your whole life and have had no contact with cold magic, asking to learn a cold version of fireball may be kind of silly. However if, say, you're a wizard and you are looking through the spellbook of a talented multiclass wizard/bard, it'd make sense to say "Hey, do they have a sonic versions of, say, burning hands?" (Wizard/sorcerer distinction has little to do with what's reasonable, I just wanted an example of each since I'm not entirely sure what sort of arcane spellcaster you are.)

You may also be interested in the Energy Substitution feat you can find in the Magic of Faerun book.

[kamikasei]

There are feats to let you change the type of energy on the fly (or at preparation time), but that's different to learning a different version of the spell with a specific, fixed energy type.

I'd suggest looking at psionics - their energy X powers give you a choice of fire, cold, sonic or electricity, and modify the damage and effect depending on the type. That could be a useful guide to balancing the changes.

But even with those as a guide, it just comes down to you and your DM agreeing on a custom version of the spell that you can "research" - which needn't amount to anything more than spending a spell known on it, or scribing it in to your spellbook as one of your two free per level.

edit: Oh, yeah - the orb of X spells in Complete Arcane / Spell Compendium will also be a useful guide.

[Douglas]

Fire, Cold, Acid, and Electricity are generally considered equally powerful by the rules (even though fire is in actuality a bit weaker due to commonality of resistance), and there shouldn't be any trouble making custom versions of spells that differ only by which of these four damage types they use. Sonic is considered more powerful, however, due to rarity of resistance, and this is generally compensated for by reducing the damage die size one step.

[Kaiyanwang]

There are feats to let you change the type of energy on the fly (or at preparation time), but that's different to learning a different version of the spell with a specific, fixed energy type.



Complete Arcane, Energy substitution. Allow an energy spell damage to be changed in Fire, Electricity, Acid or Cold. Metamagic Slot: 0

Prereq fo Energy Admixure, allowing mix and add two energies (fireball 10d6 fire 10d6 cold as an example). Slot: 4

[Artanis]

I know Fireball has an [Electric] clone called Scintilating Sphere in Spell Compendium.
I think there's also a Lightning version of Ray of Frost. Not that it matters much on something like Ray of Frost, but still.


Complete Arcane, Energy substitution. Allow an energy spell damage to be changed in Fire, Electricity, Acid or Cold. Metamagic Slot: 0

Prereq fo Energy Admixure, allowing mix and add two energies (fireball 10d6 fire 10d6 cold as an example). Slot: 4
One of my favorite ideas was using those two feats with a Recaster to turn a fireball into a 120-damage line of electrified acid. Sure, it sucks, but c'mon, how much cooler does it get? :smallbiggrin:

[BlueWizard]

I allow it, but if a wizard takes Frostball as his spell, I don't allow him to suddenly have fireball.

[Hawriel]

Bingo.

Just make sure you have some sort of rationale. If you are a sorcerer who's lived in a desert your whole life and have had no contact with cold magic, asking to learn a cold version of fireball may be kind of silly. .

Actualy this makes alot of sence. Heat is created by friction. Creating fire is causing enough friction for ignition. To freeze somthing you work the principal in reverse. Any mage that works in evocation or transmutation magic would know this.